Explosions at finish line of Boston Marathon!

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 1922 of total 1922 in this topic
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 15, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
Cnn now reporting! Many dead/injured,, by two blasts! dammit.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-two-explosions-at-boston-marathon-finish-line-20130415,0,5849240.story

Very sad and screwed up. It happened three hours after finishers crossed, apparently.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
Just found this on the web, what f*#kin bullshit!!
Credit: dirt claud


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
3 hours after the Winners crossed Jeebs,, most were well behind them!

Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
First guess would be a terrorist attack. Lots of people concentrated in one place makes a good target. Luckily no one was killed.

* edit: lots of people in one place plus lots of tv cameras already there ... but it does seem to have happened a few hours late.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
watch the reports CLOSELY, is all ill suggest.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Glad no one was killed, not what I heard at first, hopefully that is still the case, surprising though.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
Yeah, figured that, Ron. Although, 5 hours is pretty darn slow for a marathon, the majority will be through. But I'm not aware if they stagger things so that the difference between winners and the average runner would be greater.... All that aside, it is a tragedy no matter the sequence of events.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
I woulda been totally safe Jeebs,, eight -ten hours er so. (on SLED of course)..


Boston Marathon is Americana, and i wouldnt be surprised to see the ME folks behind this, or just yet another nutcase.


RIP to the dead from this tragic happening..
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
The Boston Marathon is not an open event. Runners need to qualify, so three hours after the winners should be after everyone finished. Still, I need to withhold judgment until I get more news. Graffiti in Rattlesnake Canyon, Bombing (?) at the Boston Marathon. Is good under universal attack by evil?

John
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
I wouldn't speculate yet. Too many nut cases and scum bags in the world for that. Plus, the ME folks usually get the timing right.

Have they ruled out exploding gas mains and the like?

Terrible stuff, I hope zero fatalities holds up and that the damage is just a flesh wound for those who got caught in it.
Alpamayo

Trad climber
Chapel Hill, NC
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
THree hours after the winners finished there would most certainly still be lots of people running. There are 27000 people running the event and many people don't start until an hour after the winners start.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
they say the average finish is 3/4 hours..

Word is now that the AIRSPACE has been closed around Boston. At least 3 dead..
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
NY Post reports at least 12 dead.

Other reports floating out there of 1 or more additional devices which did not detonate.

This is f-ked up.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Apr 15, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
Let's see: if I remember right you need to be able to run an 8 min pace for 26 mi to qualify for this race. That's 208 minutes or about 3.5 hours. That should be the pace of the slowest runners.

I just wikipedia'd this and the fastest time for this race was about 2 hours. So if the last runners cross start line 1 hour after the first ones, two hours later, you would still have 30 minutes to go before the slowest runners should be finished.

So, the explosions occurred 30 minutes before the end of the race. It would be a weird coincidence if a gas main blew up then, my guess is terrorist attack.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
from an article:

The explosions went off more than four hours after the start of the men’s race, which meant that there were still several thousand runners yet to finish the race.


Multiple "devices" have been found according to reports.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
No continuing fire after explosions suggests it was NOT a gas main.
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
two reported dead, 22 injured. all numbers expected to go up.
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:05pm PT

Today is Patriots Day in Massachusetts.
Just sayin'.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
Good point Kev. That and witnesses say one was in a trash can.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
Man, I hope they find who did this and explode those devices that didn't go off right in their asses.
Dapper Dan

Trad climber
Menlo Park
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
I hope the suspected bombers only have ties to countries or organizations we've already had wars with ...
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
There are reports of a third explosions occurring but there have also been reports of a controlled one by the bomb squad near the library.
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:13pm PT


I hope the suspected bombers only have ties to countries or organizations we've already had wars with ...


Does the Confederacy count?
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
It sure looks like an ammonium nitrate explosion to me. Wide and white.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Does the Confederacy count?


Jurors debate: Too soon?

*titters silently*
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
Relatively, and thankfully, those things looked pretty weak and amateurish.
I'm going with white supremacists.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
Isn't today the last day file your tax return?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
doh... taxes!
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
tend to think it was anti government types; tax day and all
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Apr 15, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
Cal Fire News @CalFireNews
#BostonMarathon #explosion's #FBI is officially treating this as a Terrorist incident now downtown Boston is closed to public
3 minutes ago

Cal Fire News @CalFireNews
#BostonMarathon BPD said one IED disarmed at St. Ignatius Catholic Church, more IED's found have not been cleared yet

Boston police chief just confirmed a third explosion at JFK Library.
Not committing that the incidents are related yet
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
a third explosion at the JFK Library
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:03pm PT

Because Islamic terrorists really hate the JFK legacy.
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
tend to think it was anti government types; tax day and all

That's what the Boston news is trending toward, last I heard.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
Damnit. They should have made the race a bomb free zone, and updated the library to one too.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
two dead

over 100 injured


hey, good sarcasm Michael!

funny stuff
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
It's fine if Ricky does it, right Norton?

Edit: Sorry to disspoint you Ricky, looks like it was a Saudi National

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjYBalO
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Nut cases bending this event into their own news hook. What an unexpected travesty. Riiiiiggght. This event really sucks for sure. My life is good, however. Whatever. Am I going to live my life like a paranoid freak because the news tells me? No. A lot of off-topic hyperbole will not come unexpected though.

I still help those confederate jihadists get napalm stuffed up their asses and ignited like a molotov cocktail to be thrown into the tobacco fields.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
looks like it was a Saudi National

Sh*t. Now we're gonna have to invade Iraq again.

Sorry. Probably not appropriate to cracking jokes right now. Sometimes trying to have a sense of humor is the way to deal...

I have a sister who owns a business near there, and a brother who works downtown too. Likely they went over to watch the race finish, I hope they went back to work after the winners came through.

My thoughts are with the victims and best wishes to the injured and families involved.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
looks like it was a Saudi National

Sh*t. Now we're gonna have to invade Iraq again.

F*ck you for making me sh*t my pants laughing at work.
jbaker

Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
The NY Post story is being challenged by Boston Police.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 15, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
The NY Post story is being challenged by Boston Police.

That is no surprise. The Post is a rag. Of course there are many such rags.

Time to wait and see...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
the radio also reports a saudi natl in custody at one of the local hospitals. One person interviewed at the scene said they saw a leg fly past them.

Instant alerts coast to coast. They even emptied Time Square.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
Prayers for all those killed or injured today, as well as their loved ones, friends and families.

Prayers also for responders and all those involved in the investigative process. Hope we get the real truth from all involved including the news media.

Also, Prayers for the souls owned by darkness.


neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
hey there say, lynne... i will join you, to pray...

very very sad... :(
crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
I'm happy to say that my co-workers and friends who were there are all ok. Apparently our booth was not far from where the explosions were. Good thoughts out to the people hurt or killed and their families.
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
I was working for the boston globe during 9/11-- this stuff is bringing back some bad memories....

A friend finished 15 minutes before... she's OK... why do i drink ?

Globe reports 100+ in hospital and 3 dead
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
Roupen Bastajian, a 35-year-old state trooper from Smithfield, R.I., had just finished the race when they put the heat blanket wrap on him and he heard the first blast.

"I started running toward the blast. And there were people all over the floor," he said. "We started grabbing tourniquets and started tying legs. A lot of people amputated. ... At least 25 to 30 people have at least one leg missing, or an ankle missing, or two legs missing."

Bad. Prayers for all.

JL
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
Roupen Bastajian, a 35-year-old state trooper from Smithfield, R.I., had just finished the race when they put the heat blanket wrap on him and he heard the first blast.

I started running toward the blast...

What kind of courage does it take to run toward the blast? What kind of instinct?

Anyone trained in bombings is trained to understand that second blasts are used to kill responders rushing to the scene. And yet this (apparently off-duty) state trooper did just that.

Are basketball players heroes, or are the real heroes everyday joes like this guy?
abrams

Sport climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
The scum that did this will pay
WBraun

climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
This is fuked up no matter how you look at it ...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
If the story of the saudi is correct, how many does that make that have attacked us?

edit: Werner, that is one tough man there!!
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
God Damn savages
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
You wonder with so many reported amputations if the blast wasn't designed to cut them off at the legs. Damn cruel irony for marathon runners. That picture conveys a lot, I hope that guy will run with prosthetics one day.
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
Are basketball players heroes

hell no, not in my book. neither are pro baseball, football, or hockey players.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
I would never have clicked on the pictures. My imagination runs crazy in plain everyday life. But W.Braun clicked for me. My heart is torn into 50 million pieces, for that man and the others injured or killed. Oh God......

But my heart is even more torn for the heart of darkness that perpetrated this. There is good on this planet and there is evil ....everyday each person makes a choice in both little and big ways.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
Roupen Bastajian, a 35-year-old state trooper from Smithfield, R.I., had just finished the race when they put the heat blanket wrap on him and he heard the first blast.

I started running toward the blast...

What kind of courage does it take to run toward the blast? What kind of instinct?

I don't know, after my one and only marathon, I could not really walk after the finish line, could not even stand. Not saying I don't believe it, just stood out as a little odd that someone who had just ran a marathon was in any condition to do much.
Fortunately there aren't that many people who seem to think blowing up random people is a good idea; unfortunately there are a few.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
Sorry to report that one of the dead is an 8 year old boy. I hope they catch the bastards.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
The ME is FULL of people who think just that. Cowardly attacks the norm. They too had their explosions- in many countries today, Iraq included.
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
Boston globe reports the guy in the photo ran PB of 2;33 and was waiting for his wife to finish

Bring these savages to my house for sentencing,, no problem
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
The person/people who did this probably thought they were justified in this horrific actions and doing good not evil. How f*#ked up is that. If they could forget everything they know and just use logic and reason to discern good from evil they would come to the conclusion that it's never justified to kill or hurt innocent people. But they have allowed themselves to be brainwashed to the point of thinking the worst, evil things possible are somehow supporting their f*#ked up cause. I don't think you'll ever weed out all these messed up people, and first you have to look for them and take them out whenever possible, but we should also be trying to educate people all over the world that they should use their own brains to figure out right and wrong and when someone tells them violence against innocent people is somehow justified don't believe that bullsh#t.
abrams

Sport climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
Reportedly Boston shut down cell phone service in the area within minutes to prevent any detonations triggered that way. Shows how extremely well prepared
Boston is for this.

And it led to many people being unable to call loved ones and let them know they are ok.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/04/15/boston_marathon_explosion_cell_service_shut_down_by_police_to_prevent_remote.html
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
Right fet---- take them out

If you wanna kill civilians- coward

there's been a lot of whacked sh&t in Boston.. this is right up there.
Gene

climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
We don't know squat about who did this. We will know soon enough.

For now I suggest sending prayers/vibes/good thought, whatever you want to call it, to the victims, their families, and the first responders.

g
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
well

we have no idea at this time "who" did it

immediate assumptions are people from the Middle East (Ron)

and JHedge concludes "right wing" terrorism


remember the Oklahoma bombing?

it was a white guy, an American, "Timothy"
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
YES- esp the 8 year old who died....
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 15, 2013 - 06:59pm PT
The scum that did this will pay

And if the scum that did this is from another country, thousands of innocents will pay along with them.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:00pm PT
I was at work in NH when it happened.

Cell service was nil, the lines were all busy, my coworkers and I speculated that something bad had happened. Sadly we were right.

My thoughts go out to all those involved.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
My heart goes out to the victims, their families, and to the people of Boston.

I love running marathons and the culture around the events. It boils my blood to think how a positive event like the Boston marathon has turned into a blood bath.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
So if it were to turn out to be Saudis (again, although my knee-jerk reaction is the same as Hedge's), which country would we start a BS war in this time?

I mean, last time, we bombed Afghanistan and invaded Iraq. Maybe this time it'll be Bangladesh and Norway...neither has f*#k-all to do with anything, but neither did Iraq, and after the last time it's clear that we sure as hell won't actually go after Saudi Arabia.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
The scum that did this will pay

And if the scum that did this is from another country, thousands of innocents will pay along with them.

Seems to be in the past 10 years how this has gone down.

"Prayers" for those affected by this. More "prayers" for those who will be further affected by the aftermath and consequences. I use the word "prayer" inasmuch as I mean a good thought or consideration or moment of contemplation of ".....there but for the grace of god go I".

Way too early to prognosticate who did this; indeed my feelings move towards how the entire USA will "pay" for this in terms of raised feelings of fear for more domestic attacks of this nature.

slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
Brandon- reported cell activated devices .. service may have been shut down to prevent more

3 friends running,,2 finished,, one held at the "blockade" all OK
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
Lilabiene - this is on your turf. You okay?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
The ME is FULL of people who think just that. Cowardly attacks the norm. They too had their explosions- in many countries today, Iraq included.

It's a little early to jump to conclusions, Ron. At the time of the Oklahoma City bombing, I was working on a crew with a Portuguese guy from the Azores. In the immediate aftermath he was on the receiving end of a lot of abuse, we had to shut down our job and get him back to the office, we were really worried about his safety.

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
I agree with those fearing the repercussions. The worst thing we could do is to let cynical people once again harness our fear and rage and direct it at whatever 3rd world nation it is they want us to invade next. Using the slaughter of innocents to justify the slaughter of innocents doesn't strike me as justice.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
WAY MORE PEOPLE DIED IN CAR ACCIDENTS TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!! DO you really think each and every one of those lost to the day to day trgaedies are any less of a TRAGEDY? I really am being serious here.

Yeah this sucks and yeah it IS legitimate news.

But it sure as hell is not legitimate reason to go to war or lose more freedoms via something like the UNPATRIOTIC ACT. I hope we don't use it as an excuse.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
Ive continued an IF in my posts Gary. that rumor is well established in cyberville. And I would almost EXPECT a blackout of such news by DHS, for obvious reasons. So its an unknown for now.

But if it was another Saudi, its time to make America a Saudi free zone, and they can be told to shove their oil up their dirty hineys. One more act, and they "will see a large flash".."Do not fear"...;-)
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
no comment
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
No it is not Ron. America must get over this minor crap. And yes it is MINOR when considered in the full picture.

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH. The Land of the BRAVE? YER GUNNA DIE! What is BRAVE if it isn't the ability to face that fact? What is Brave if you sacrifice decency because of fear?

Some idiot from wherever with a couple bombs and kills a few folks???

And we should even react at all?? Compared to what?.. last weeks lightning strike deaths?

I guarantee most SAUDI's are good people you would be blessed to have as friends... as all friends are a blessing.

People are people and the vast majority are pretty decent folks.

nah000

Mountain climber
canuckistan
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:24pm PT
+7.1 billion climbski2
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
ski- lightning strikes are not intentional,,, or earthquakes ..or blowinup people watching a road race is

so i guess the 8 year old was "ok " death
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
I do not consider this minor in any way.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
He's not saying that, Slabbo. Let yourself be led by the nose like a bull, America, and one day it will be to slaughter you go.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
And someone intentionally caused it. So we find that person or persons. We make sure they cannot strike again.

BUT WE DAMN WELL SHOULD NOT CONDEMN A WHOLE ARTIFICIAL CONSTRUCT OF SOME GROUP OF PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF ONE OR A FEW.

Minor is a relative term. If you knew someone who died or was hurt here.. it is MAJOR.. it is a lifechanging event of great deapth.

If you didn't know anyone here you are just sitting in your chair and bemoaning the fact that you were informed that in the real world bad things happen.

You are like a 6 year old that learns that life has some harsh realities and goes crying to bed.

If you think this is more horrible than the last multicar interstate pileup then you are self deceived and unthinkingly naive or hypocritical.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
The MORE we "take it" the more we will HAVE to take it..

The single most repeated phrase in investigations of all the known terrorists that have been captured here is: " he seemd like such a nice quiet man, i would have never thought~~~"


So tell me Climb2ki, how are we going to stop such people? Id rather PREVENT than prosecute after the fact.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
climbski,

+1
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
BUT WE DAMN WELL SHOULD NOT CONDEMN A WHOLE ARTIFICIAL CONSTRUCT OF SOME GROUP OF PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF ONE OR A FEW.


a whole lot of people will anyway

immediate, emotional, knee jerk reaction

because it feels good

feels righteous

last time we did it, it cost us three trillion dollars and 4000 US Armed Forces dead

Tami

Social climber
Canada
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

A quote from Hermann Goering.

Don't let it happen in America. Stand strong for truth!!!
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
No we will never be able to stop a dedicated intelligent individual of the most dangerous race of beings in the known universe from attacking like this.
BobLoblaw

climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
Ron - We're not going to stop such people. There will always be a small percentage of crazy people who don't value life and feel the need to make a statement.

By my calculation, this brings the grand total of terrorist-related deaths in the U.S. in the past 10+ years to...2. How many people have died by gunfire from white Americans during that time (in schools, movie theaters, etc.)? How are we going to stop those people? Are terrorist bombs really the biggest threat? (This is, of course, assuming this even was a foreign terrorist attack...)

The Middle East is not "FULL" of these people. Have you ever been there? Of course you haven't. I have, and I have American friends who have lived there for years, and 99% of the people you encounter are friendly and caring. Your statement is the equivalent of going to a neo-Nazi rally here in the U.S. and then proclaiming "American is FULL of skinhead racists!" It makes you look like even more of an ignorant bigot than you normally do. Congratulations.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:49pm PT
'MURICA!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 07:49pm PT
I believe i was in my teens long before you emerged into light of day.

that being said, The THIRD WORLD influences in this country have thus far proven DISASTROUS, and that will no doubt label me a racist - etc etc etc. But Between the WORLDS WORST criminal gangs here by the hundreds of thousands, and the trained in the USA terrorists weve been spawning for some time, the third world influence has been responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths here in the USA. And we just go on ignoring that obvious fact in an effort of political correctness. Had my Choctaw ancestors taken this approach, there would have been none left to enjoy the Trail of Tears. And i might not be here.


and boblaw,, You RIGHT, in that the ME has WONDERFUL normal folks. I know some of them myself. Unfortunately they are under the thumb of radical islam as well. And they dont like it either. And THAT IS what im talking about here. Radical islam.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
SO a man thinks to himself those folks over there might attack.. so he nukes them

Then he figures someone over there might attack.. so he nukes them

Eventually he nukes everyone.. cause hey.. they might attack

Then he looks at himself and says.. jeez I should't smoke a cigarette or drink a beer or eat McDonalds or Climbe a rock

So he shoots himself

Another guy just says

Life is good and I like most of the people I meet. Gotta die someday so no sense worrying about that.. what can I do to make life better while I'm here?


Gene

climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
how are we going to stop such people?

We can solve this problem with mandatory racial/ethnic/religious/mental/DNA/etc. profiling and government monitoring of all personal activities of the entire world population. Problem solved. I think Homeland Security is working on an ap for this. I can’t wait for the whole family to get the GPS and biometric chips implanted. I’ll feel much safer. How 'bout you?

g

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
ANd you assume i havent done that 2ski? To the tune above and beyond the call of duty? pffff. assume away.


edit : Gene, there used to be common sense applied to things. They seek to replace it all with regulation.

JUST the fact that alerts were broadcast from Coast to Coast over this tells us of the nature in which we now live. Bitchin huh.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
Ron - We're not going to stop such people. There will always be a small percentage of crazy people who don't value life and feel the need to make a statement.

By my calculation, this brings the grand total of terrorist-related deaths in the U.S. in the past 10+ years to...2. How many people have died by gunfire from white Americans during that time (in schools, movie theaters, etc.)? How are we going to stop those people? Are terrorist bombs really the biggest threat? (This is, of course, assuming this even was a foreign terrorist attack...)

The Middle East is not "FULL" of these people. Have you ever been there? Of course you haven't. I have, and I have American friends who have lived there for years, and 99% of the people you encounter are friendly and caring. Your statement is the equivalent of going to a neo-Nazi rally here in the U.S. and then proclaiming "American is FULL of skinhead racists!" It makes you look like even more of an ignorant bigot than you normally do. Congratulations.


only 2 terrorist related deaths in the US in the past 10 years
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 15, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
We did meet once and really honestly.. I do like you Ron. Like many folks today.. this crap has me venting too.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
Bobleblob...Just because some men suffer from MPB doesn't give you the right to categorize us as skin-head racists...RJ
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
Good for you.2ski!. Not to worry, you dont have to climb with me. i belay by standing on the rope, rarely even buckle my harness and dulfer-rap alll the time.

Im venting no doubt. Ive been through violence and know it first hand.

This uselss shyt PISSES ME TO THE CORE actually. If a skin head did it- o would feel the exact same way and say ENOUGH OF THEM! They all just became targets of opportunity.



climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
Dulferwhat... jeez we just called it the crotchburner ... freaking elitist!

Hey wanna go climb some stuff Rick found outside Fernley?






michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
3 deaths now.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
He mentioned that one..



Now back to those DAMM SAUDIS!

Who knows at this point. I do pray for the injured and the dead. The folks that witnessed and helped as well. The responders and the familys.

I DONT want a black out on info from the gubbmint on this , i will say. But i dont hold hope to be honest.





edit: and for those counting the deaths from terrorists here, dont YOU DARE cut the count off at a decade.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
I wouldn't mind climbing some time.

Best wishes to the victims, as with all such tragedies.

Quit f-ing guessing as to whodunnit. Time will tell.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
Seems like North Korea recently declared war on us. Just saying.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
ok, that was funny!^^^
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
Edit: Sorry to disspoint you Ricky, looks like it was a Saudi National

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjYBalO

And what does Breitbart say? That Post article still says twelve people killed. Bad journalism.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
only 2 terrorist related deaths in the US in the past 10 years

Yeah well go back a couple more years and all of a sudden its thousands. Go back to Oklahoma City and its even more. I also see you don't consider the Ft Hood shootings to be terrorism. "Allah Akbar!!!!" Blam blam blam blam...

In the case of this mess in Boston, the best thing would be for everyone to unite on the theme that it is a terrible thing and not to speculate, throwing accusations in all directions, until the facts come in.

Conservative media are blaming the ME, at the same time liberal media are speculating that it is a right wing government hating group. Who does this BS from either side serve? No one.

Jeez, there are even conspiracy theory folks on facebook saying that the Boston PD did it accidentally as they were using the event as a training exercise in bomb squad work.

None of this idiotic speculation contributes anything.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
I did post mine a speculative to begin with after hearing reports on the radio.


And its merely a vent of frustration really.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
Hey, who you calling an idiot? Speculation is about as natural as apple pie. :>) Give me freedom to speculate or give me death. Notice I'm not speculating out loud except for mentioning the North Koreans.
shady

Trad climber
hasbeen
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
As a participant in an unpopular war a few decades ago, I whole heartedly agree.
+1 Tami.
I already oppose our next war.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
Obama did not use the word terror or terrorist in addressing this crime, although "White House officials called the blast an act of terror".

Always on the sidelines, We'd like to punt for the winning team but since when is blowing people up without the GOOD WORD from government leaders anything other than an act of terror and terrorism ?

Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
Give me freedom to speculate or give me death.

Dan, you and me speculating is natural. The "news" media speculating is irresponsible. And the politicians will be next.

I always enjoy your sense of humor though...
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
Oh, the media......nuff said. :>)
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
Obama did not use the word terrorist in addressing this crime

He'll get ripped fer that one
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
He'll get ripped fer that one

Yeah, they'll take his birth certificate away!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
I started the speculation shyt storm due to radio reports of a young saudi in custody at one of the local hospitals. From there everyone failed to read the "IF" in my post and here we are...

So far , it looks like a duck and talks like a duck.. We need to know what the walk looks like.

A crappy monday for America..
shady

Trad climber
hasbeen
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
Media speculation is modern journalism.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
So if we find out specifically who did this atrocity what then? Do we do it back to them? Do we hate as much or more than the perps. Do we let our system deal with them? What? Where do we go from here? What do we do to eliminate this horror. Can we do anything?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
not to mention the obvious partisan ways of each and every mainstream outlets there is now. Snopes et-all included.




I truly wonder LL.. Once upon a time an A bomb was used not once but TWICE to convince a foe it was defeated.

Im NOT SAYING NUKE them, but simply pointing out the lengths it took to defeat a similar mind set of the jihad terrorists.

We can keep catching the individuals, we can wire tap everyones phones and cell phones and computers, but we would need HALF the country working on checking on the other half to POSSIBLY put a dent in the population count here now. Even with all the new and intrusive sections of the NDAA which do indeed rob us of privacy on ANY outlets of communications or media, this is just a pin prick in comparison to the population of the US.

Do we PROFILE? Make every saudi or ME natl go through an intensive check - maybe locators issued them? Have their hard drives examined, their mail etc? No one ever before even thought their neighbor might some day fly a plane into the WTCs.. Or have we made it simply to complex., I have no clue.


Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:54pm PT

What radio show were you listening to, Ron?
WBraun

climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
So if we find out specifically who did this atrocity what then?

We kill em.

Limb by limb.

No we will not cut them off. We will tear them off.

Piece by piece, the head last.

It will be gruesome. It will be done in public.

Everyone will enjoy and watch.

This is the 21'st century.

There will be no mercy.

Ho mannnn .....
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
Yeah, they'll take his birth certificate away!

maybe they'll make him another one though.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
Ron,

Terror and it's function to be the wild card in organized, diplomatic or coercive ambition to a goal for power has never been exclusive to who is vying for the prize.

The prize being control of resources, methods of production, who produces and who profits.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
So a Saudi National is in custody. He has not been arrested and is denying involvement. An American noticed him acting suspiciously then chased him down after he took off running after the explosions (not a surprising reaction to a bomb). He was last reported to be denying any involvement.

I still bet homegrown - prolly wont know for a few days.

Very very sad day.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 15, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
How many innocent bystanders have we taken out? what do they call them casualties of war? didn't we declare war on the terrorists?
it's tragic but we can't run around doin whatever we feel is right and not expect any backlash right?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
Ricky,,The Tom Larsen show..He watched the cops empty time square from his booth.

And Jim Yes that is TRUE!


And as stated, all speculation as of now. If its skin heads then they need to pay. And you can punish one making a statment, but you can punish a bunch and make an impression. If it was just some crazed nut, let us NOT waste tax dollars on a lengthy due process. Let us make it a swift due process and then simply executed. No appeals, no whacko defense. Let us make MASS murder or mayhem punishable by that. SWIFT accurate justice. No fan fare, no books no movie o the week.
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
An American noticed him acting suspiciously then chased him down after he took off running after the explosions (not a surprising reaction to a bomb).


You have a source for that?
abrams

Sport climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
Saying now that officials were acting like they had intel beforehand of a threat and beefed up security more than ever before but the a-hole bombers
still got in close!


http://www.local15tv.com/mostpopular/story/UM-Coach-Bomb-Sniffing-Dogs-Spotters-on-Roofs/BrirjAzFPUKKN8z6eSDJEA.cspx

kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
Sure here's a source

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57579736/authorities-question-saudi-national-in-boston-attack/
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
How many innocent bystanders have we taken out? what do they call them casualties of war? didn't we declare war on the terrorists?


The semantic inconsistencies in our "war on terror" could have been taken straight from Orwell.
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:11pm PT

Thanks, Kev.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
Anything but, unfortunately. North Koreans will have to be more aggressive now to reclaim the media.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
I'm retracting my "i bet homegrown"
To many contradictory pieces of info pointing away from home grown.

If the reports of a bomb being found in a hotel are true that seems to point away from a timothy mcveigh.

Regardless of which flavor of whack jobs did this it's very sad.

Werner, what's your take?

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
tea party
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:21pm PT

Werner, what's your take?

Americans are stupid?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 09:21pm PT
BUSH DID IT!


(sorry docf,, beat ya to it.)
WBraun

climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
LOL you guys got me pegged.

My take of course is "False Flag Op"

Somethings up.

And Timothy Mcveigh you guys are dreaming.

He was patsy for that Oklahoma false flag ops, everyone knows that for years except for stupid Americans.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
Guaranteed another 150 posts past the next 150.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
They KNOW things from the IED that DIDNT go off. The construction alone can tell you much. Styles can be quite regional. So they have that going for them, but they arent telling now.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
At least 30 members of an Afghan wedding party were killed and many more wounded when a U.S. plane bombed a village in the central province of Uruzgan today, Afghan officials and residents said.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-125820/US-bomb-kills-30-Afghan-wedding.html
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
M18A1 Claymore Mines a possibility?

Directional.

Ball bearings.

White smoke.

Sound is about the same.....

My WAG

A very sad day.
Erik
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
Federal authorities are classifying the bombings as a terrorist attack, but it's not clear whether the origin was domestic or foreign, a federal law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation said.
A federal law enforcement official told CNN that both bombs were small, and initial tests showed no C-4 or other high-grade explosive material, suggesting that the packages used in the attack were crude explosive devices.
Investigators warned police to be on the lookout for a "darker-skinned or black male" with a possible foreign accent in connection with the attack, according to a law enforcement advisory obtained by CNN. The man was seen with a black backpack and sweatshirt and was trying to get into a restricted area about five minutes before the first explosion, the lookout notice states.
Also, a Saudi national with a leg wound was under guard at a Boston hospital in connection with the bombings, but investigators cannot say he is involved at this time and he is not in custody, a law enforcement official said Monday evening.
Running list of things we know
Another explosive device found
Authorities in Boston found at least one other explosive device that they were dismantling, Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said.
Rep. Bill Keating of Massachusetts, meanwhile, said there were two more found.
One unexploded device was found at a hotel on Boylston Street near the bomb site and another unexploded device was found at an undisclosed location, Keating, a Democrat and member of the House Homeland Security committee, said, calling the bombing a "sophisticated, coordinated, planned attack."
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
no prob here doc!
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
lower level shots----- leg off's and stuff

just horrible
abrams

Sport climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
That Boston was able to shut off cell service instantly means they
knew in advance that cell phone triggered ied's were possibly going to be
used.

Not certain but a possibility. And knew which towers to shut off. No futzing around with coverage maps. So they had that functionality primed and ready just in case.

Unless anyone out there has knowledge that all the police departments
across the US have cell tower kill switches they can activate when needed?

Think Boston PD had a light bulb moment that fast? No. They were ready in
case they could not arrest the terrorists before.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/23/us-pakistan-violence-idUSBRE8AM0HI20121123


slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
Conspiracy really ? come on, the cell;; service was overloaded.
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:51pm PT

Telecom compliance with law enforcement is tightly regulated. No surprises here.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
Thanks Anders for putting the "facts" to something horrible. Would you feel as bored if it were your legs and arms taking freedom from your self through a bombing ?

The people turning out to cheer on some runners didn't sign up for a military obligation concerning their life just to have fun at a foot race.

slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
Well put Jim-- thank you
abrams

Sport climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
slabbo - LE plans for stopping or mitigating terror attacks are not
a conspiracy. Contingency planning is what the good guys do.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
April 15? hmmm, maybe homegrown.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
Ron...you seem very knowledgeable about explosives and pyrotechnics and you were the first one to post about the bombing...You been to the ME lately or any skinhead rallies...? Feel free to share with your fellow tacoites...RJ
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
I was at work today in Boston.

Boston Harbor & Logan Airport on 15 April 2013...Patriots Day
Boston Harbor & Logan Airport on 15 April 2013...Patriots Day
Credit: LilaBiene

Every year growing up, we would get together with family and friends to cheer on the runners along the marathon route. It's a unifying, fun and up-beat event made even more meaningful watching folks dig deep and tackle "heartbreak hill".

Another view
Another view
Credit: LilaBiene

I couldn't bear to take photos of the signs left hanging along the route by the families and friends of runners. As I was driving out of the city around 6p, reporters on the radio were reporting that people were still wandering around, cold and lost, trying to find friends and family.

My heart goes out to the families who lost loved ones, and to those family members and other individuals whose lives will be forever changed due to severed limbs, permanent disfigurement and lost innocence.

It's a sad day in Boston.

That being said, they sure as Hell picked the WRONG city. Bunch of COWARDS.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
At least 30 members of an Afghan wedding party were killed and many more wounded when a U.S. plane bombed a village in the central province of Uruzgan today, Afghan officials and residents said.


any legitimate news organization or wire reporting this? like AP or New York Times or Reuters or BBC? The first hits I saw on my googling "30 killed Afghan wedding" are:
(1) www.dailypaul.com > Forums > Daily Paul Liberty Forum
(2) www.newsvine.com
(3) www.dailymail.co.uk (the one you linked)
(4) www.godlikeproductions.com


WBraun

climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
Shutting down the cell towers is a planned defensive maneuver.


Doesn't do sh!t if you know what your doing.

If you want to control IED's explosives you don't need cell tower.

Man you guys don't know much.

Just main stream media is all you know ......
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
pre pay cell ?

all kinds of ways to comm it.
WBraun

climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Stop speculating slabbo.

You have no clue.

And I'm NOT going to give you any.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
RJ,, the marbles bearings and such are a typical component of IEDs in the ME.
And Yes its true that the district rangers office was blown up shortly after i left the forest service. Yes its true him and i had a major blowout .. But i was never questioned. Much to mine and every other employees amazement. The crime was never solved..
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
AT+T has been practicing cell tower shut downs here on the eastside for the past 5 years...Wish i could get reception..Quack....!
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:22pm PT

What RF technology would Werner use?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
MOST of Nevada has ZERO barzzzz.. You get two blocks of I 80 and yer dun..
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
Not speculating W-- F off

I have some experience in this and I aint telling
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
http://bit.ly/AAsBRl
abrams

Sport climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Not a secret that they will be tracking down every phone in the world that made 2 calls in the 14 seconds between the two blasts.

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Apr 15, 2013 - 11:00pm PT
My theory , for what it's worth:

These bombs were the work of someone who was disqualified from the Marathon in the last year or two. They feel like they should have won but feel they were cheated by Marathon officials. They have been nursing a grudge, of sociopathic proportions , ever since.

Investigators need to go over the list of disgruntled and disqualified runners , possibly going back several years.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 15, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
At least 30 members of an Afghan wedding party were killed and many more wounded when a U.S. plane bombed a village in the central province of Uruzgan today, Afghan officials and residents said.

That doesn't count it was an accident,WTF
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 15, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
That doesn't count it was an accident,WTF

How many people have to die before carelessness crosses the line and becomes criminal behavior?

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 15, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
^^^^^^a lot less^^^^^^
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:09am PT
This I can agree on ^^
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:21am PT
bomb-bastic





Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:24am PT
Think we all agree on this, Coz. Especially tonight, as everyone comes to gripes with the weird horror inflicted on humans that were just living their day. Prayers and comfort to all. It is difficult to comprehend......
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:33am PT
Hell there are probably more people killed and maimed daily on the streets of Chicago than this little act. Why are americans acting so collectively stupid? Terrorism is only effective if the terrorized cease to function normally. Don't sensationalize, don't give them the effect they want, shake it off and get back to business as usual other than tracking them without relent till captured or killed.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:42am PT
Folks, calm down.

I've read all sorts of wrong things in this thread, reporting speculation as fact.

Also, consider that you don't really want to cause harm to your fellow climbers, do you?

I'm specifically talking about posting gratuitous pictures of traumatic amputations, with no warning. Those of us in medicine and EMS have seen worse, but for those who do not, such things can cause psychologic damage, that can go on for some time.

You may choose to believe that such people are weak, have weak character....and irrespective of such value judgements of people, posting things that may hurt people says a lot more about your character, than theirs.

I'm talking specifically to you WB.
WBraun

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:36am PT
Ken M

I've never said a word about anyone being weak.

You did and your projecting ideas in your silly head again about other people.

You do that a lot.

I received an email from one person here about your sickness.

That person left this forum because of you and your sick twisted mentality.

Best back off screwball ......
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:53am PT
I don't see any difference between a photo of someone's missing leg and a written description saying something like "leg blown off".

If the written word doesn't paint that exact same picture into your head, you need to, I don't know, maybe brush up on reading comprehension, or something.

If you can stomach reading a news article about limbs being blown off, you should be OK with the photos too.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:16am PT
Respectfully Chaz, I disagree with you on this point. But, with that said, I'm not going to belabor what was posted or what was written but to say that pictures and words affect me in very different manners.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:39am PT
I don't see any difference between a photo of someone's missing leg and a written description saying something like "leg blown off".


chaz, you post that as a person with childish concepts of people.

Perhaps you would benefit from spending time on a suicide line, or counseling people who suffer from PTSD.

I'm sure that seeing an actual picture of your child eviserated would affect you no differently than reading about it, but you are certainly not typical.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:44am PT
Braun Boy,

other than being a simple troll, you are an embarrassment to EMS providers.

Time to retire.

Inasmuch as that picture does not appear easily found on the web, you probably used your access to confidential EMS blogs. Using that info to post publically is particularly offensive.
WBraun

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:48am PT
Hey Fuk you azzhole Ken fuken M

You've crossed the line with your dumbsh!t bullsh!t.

Everything you say you make up sh!t that isn't there.

You really want to fuk with me azzhole?

You better think about it very seriously dipsh!t.

Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:50am PT
Wow, Americans really ARE stupid.
John M

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:54am PT
Ease up you two.

Ken.. the picture is on yahoo news.


I would like to know who left because of Ken. ken is cantankerous at times, and opinionated, but I haven't seen him post anything worse then a whole lot of other people on this forum. But then I haven't been reading much of the political threads lately.

What a terrible event.

WBraun

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:57am PT
John you'd be surprised who it was, very respected person.

All because of this sh!thead who mkes up crap in his head about people he knows nothing about.

I have no respect at all for this fuk head Ken M
Anastasia

climber
Home
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:03am PT
I just stuck my head out of my little hole... Looked around and WHAM...

Yeah, don't have to go far to see some crazy, angry, stuff flying around. Yup, yup, going back into hiding... Carry on folks.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:03am PT
A brilliant and professional response from a representative of Yosemite SAR.
WBraun

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:06am PT
It was for your dumbsh!t head aszhole Ken M.

For your information ya stupid sh!thead I've never in my life have ever done any EMS ever.

So quit projecting crap on people that you don't know.

And that's what you did to that other guy too.

Fukhead ....
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:22am PT
My condolences to everyone affected by this horrible tragedy.

So tell me Climb2ki, how are we going to stop such people? Id rather PREVENT than prosecute after the fact.

To this I must say, how many of your freedoms are you willing to forfeit to achieve such a mission statement??????

Edit wow.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 16, 2013 - 06:04am PT
Supertopo: the number one name in internet news and random emotional speculation.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 16, 2013 - 06:26am PT
Pretty f*#ked up that you guys turn a tradgedy into a pissing match.

anyone who gets PTSD from a photo is most definatly suffering from first world problems....
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Apr 16, 2013 - 06:26am PT
Pretty f*#ked up that you guys turn a tradgedy into a pissing match.

Tradmanclimbs, so true. But...

Supertopo: the number one name in internet news and random emotional speculation.

Patrick: Number One? Yeah, right. Had to get your two bits in, didn't you. If you do not like the Taco Stand, then just leave. It is a good site, far better than many. You obviously feel burned from the Peru thread that you started. No hard feelings, but you come across as bitter, IMO. ;-)

Wow, Americans really ARE stupid.

Michelle, some of the posters are not 'Americans', some are born elsewhere, but just as stupid. Stupidity knows no boundaries.

Condolences to the injured and families of those killed and maimed in this horrible 'event'.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Apr 16, 2013 - 07:08am PT
An estimated 50-80 people were killed in bombings in Iraq yesterday, also. The public is tired of hearing about that so the news doesn't pay much attention to it, so it's not important and Obama won't make a speech about it. I think the Taliban wedding story is an old one, but bombings happen regularly in these war zones.

For some reason the White House is avoiding using the word terrorism. Why? Is it because we have to determine the religion and nationality of the culprits first?
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Apr 16, 2013 - 07:54am PT
I would like to make a few comments, which I have had 1st hand experience with.

It was mentioned in an earlier post that there was no C4 detected.

There are other explosives, which are just as powerful as C4, which can be made by a novice, with little experience.

When viewing the photo that Werner posted, one may assume that the guy was in considerable pain, but if my own experience with bomb blast is typical, the whole area around the wound is rather numb for several hours.

I was injured severely, by separate bomb blast, and each time, I had NO feeling in the area for many hours afterwards.

I nearly lost my foot in Vietnam, and they told me I wouldn't run again.
A few years later, I was climbing routes on EL Cap.

With the right motivation, let us hope the injured will walk and run again.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 16, 2013 - 08:39am PT
You obviously feel burned from the Peru thread that you started. No hard feelings, but you come across as bitter, IMO. ;-)

other Patrick,

You sound a little bitter too dude (obviously). Peru thread? That was months ago. Sorry it has been weighing on your mind. No hard feelings, of course.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Apr 16, 2013 - 08:57am PT
Those last few post were good ones thanks.

Very tragic and my heart goes out to all affected.

Werner, I can see one point of Ken's (not that you probably give a goshdarn) which is posting a very graphic image without a warning. A link may have been better... though a shocking is indeed what we all must and should feel (though that may of been your point, I don't know).
All that other stuff seems kind of minor considering the pain and suffering many are going through.
My $0.02

And, too, that it is easier for me to feel the outrage, frustration, sorrow, and compassion for ALL those that experience these horrific things no matter who they are or where they live or what they believe.
That is something everyone needs to get their heads wrapped around.

People do pretty f*#ked up shite to each other. Seems to me that tolerance and respect for others is even more important and is needed to balance it out.

cheers
Truthdweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:34am PT
"At Massachusetts General Hospital, Alasdair Conn, chief of emergency services,said: "This is something I've never seen in my 25 years here ... this amount of carnage in the civilian population. This is what we expect from war."


Didn't we already go to "war" over a exponentially larger amount of "carnage" on September 11, 2001? It appears from this statement that, in twelve years, some things have already been forgotten. It's going to happen again, and again, and again, and if you haven't already, you might start thinking like you're in a war zone and keep you're head on a swivel. As I said to a fellow shipmate/Corpsman of the relieving 3/25 Marines in March 2005, while lying on our faces on the dusty floor of the "internet room" after a VBIED explosion out at the main gate of FOB Hit, "Welcome to Iraq!"


OP Alpha, FOB Hit Iraq, '04-'05
Credit: Truthdweller Collection
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:45am PT
I've got no problem with the image Werner posted.

Yes, that's what it looks like folks.

I haven't forgotten what happened on 9/11, but exactly what do you think we've been doing to people in Iraq and Afghanistan for over 10 years?
Or Yemen or Pakistan for that matter.

To think that they were all combatants and bad guys is just plain ignorant

That's why all of Fatty's "over the horizon" and "surgical" bullshit made me so crazy. As if there were only bad guys on the other side of the horizon.....

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:21am PT
up to 176 wounded and three dead this am. Prayers to ALL...

But the govt is draggin a bit with the news. They dismantled the unexploded IEDs ad no doubt have a strong indication of those behind this. An address in Boston was searched over night but nothing further.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 16, 2013 - 10:22am PT
But the govt is draggin a bit with the news.

That's a good thing.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:24am PT
Perhaps Gary,, perhaps..
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Apr 16, 2013 - 10:26am PT
As opposed to jumping to conclusions and speculating like...
Truthdweller

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 16, 2013 - 10:27am PT
I haven't forgotten what happened on 9/11, but exactly what do you think we've been doing to people in Iraq and Afghanistan for over 10 years? Or Yemen or Pakistan for that matter.

In a war, doing the job we volunteered for, trying to stop bad guys, so others can enjoy the FREEDOM of speech, and other freedoms that some take for granted here in America.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:28am PT
Well this is the Saudi news about it,, seems they were ONLY worried about Saudis..The below from ARABNEWS.



No Saudi seriously injured in Boston blasts


Injured people and debris lie on the sidewalk near the Boston Marathon finish line following an explosion in Boston on April 15, 2013. (AP)
| | A A

ARAB NEWS
Wednesday 17 April 2013
Last Update 16 April 2013 3:55 pm
JEDDAH: No Saudi citizen had been seriously injured by the twin explosions in Boston that killed three people, an official at the Saudi Embassy in Washington D.C. said on Tuesday.
Abdulaziz Al Juiad told Arab News that only one Saudi casualty had been confirmed so far but it is considered a "slight injury."
Mohammad Al-Eisa, head of the Saudi Cultural Attaché, spoke to Saudi media and identified the lone Saudi casualty as Noura Al-Ajaji. He said the woman was slightly injured by shrapnel.
"She was at a hospital and had assured her husband by phone that she would be discharged soon," Al-Eisa said.
The Saudi Royal Court earlier said in a statement carried by the official the Saudi Press Agency (SPA) on Tuesday that the kingdom's ambassador to the United States, Adel Al-Jubeir, had also assured Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah by telephone that no Saudi citizen had been injured or killed.
Unconfirmed reports on social media earlier said two Saudis, including an exchange student, were injured in Monday's bomb attacks apparently targeting the 117th Boston Marathon.
The bombs, placed in trash bins, exploded near the finish line of marathon, leaving three dead and at least 141 people injured from shrapnel and debris, including six in critical condition. The blasts severed the limbs of many victims.
There are around 1,000 Saudis in the Boston area.





Not that it necessarily relates to this bombing,, but that is the whole article which LACKS any empathy towards the Americans involved.




edit: Dingus as for your questions, i simply want to know the truth dont you?
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 16, 2013 - 10:35am PT
In a war, doing the job we volunteered for, trying to stop bad guys, so others can enjoy the FREEDOM of speech, and other freedoms that some take for granted here in America.

These wars are not about freedom.

They are about MONEY.

How many "bad guys" have we "stopped" ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War




climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 16, 2013 - 10:36am PT
Plane crashes in Bali.. 2 Americans and one British aboard.

How many times have you seen headlines like this in America? News outlets always sell to their readership. You will find headlines like this in over 90 Nations today regarding the Marathon bombing. Over 90 nations had athletes in the race. From a terrorism point of view it would be hard to pick an event with more widespread international coverage.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Apr 16, 2013 - 10:37am PT
Dude, man that is the same kind of news reported whenever the same thing happens somewhere else. Of course they're going to report the status of their own nationals to their nationals-duh.

Empathy. You expect a response to that statement from you.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:44am PT
Wow.. mcfart,, you sure took that ball and ran with it..




Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 16, 2013 - 10:53am PT
But the govt is draggin a bit with the news. They dismantled the unexploded IEDs ad no doubt have a strong indication of those behind this.

Seriously, where do you get this sh#t?


(Reuters) - No additional explosive devices were found on the scene of the Boston Marathon after two bombs went off on Monday, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick said on Tuesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/16/us-usa-explosions-boston-governor-idUSBRE93F0OU20130416
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 10:58am PT
Another explosive device found
Authorities in Boston found at least one other explosive device that they were dismantling, Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said.
Rep. Bill Keating of Massachusetts, meanwhile, said two more were found.
One unexploded device was found at a hotel on Boylston Street near the bomb site and another unexploded device was found at an undisclosed location, Keating, a Democrat and member of the House Homeland Security Committee, said. He called the bombing a "sophisticated, coordinated, planned attack."
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 11:17am PT
This from Aljazeera news:



Investigators are searching for the person or group responsible for planting two bombs at the Boston Marathon finish line that killed three people and wounded more than 100 others.

Police and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) officials searched a house in connection with the bombings late on Monday. Massachusetts state police have confirmed that a warrant was served to search the property in the suburb of Revere in Boston.

Law enforcement agencies are hunting for clues, while critically wounded victims of Monday's blasts fight for their lives and others contemplating a new life as amputees.

Boston Explosions
LIVE BLOG


Follow the latest updates
The bombs ripped through the crowd at the finish line of the Boston Marathon, shattering the annual civic celebration on the Patriots' Day state holiday, while tens of thousands of people packed the street to cheer on the runners.

The two devices using gunpowder as explosives were packed with ball bearings and other shrapnel to maximise injuries, a senior law enforcement official, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the case, briefed on the investigation.

No one has been arrested in regard to the bombing. A White House official said the case would be treated as "an act of terrorism", but it had yet to be determined whether the attack came from a foreign or domestic source.

President Barack Obama promised to catch whoever was responsible.

"We still don't know who did this or why," Obama said, adding, "Make no mistake: We will get to the bottom of this."

"It is a criminal investigation that is a potential terrorist investigation," said Richard DesLauriers, the FBI special agent in charge for Boston.

**As many as two unexploded bombs were also found near the end of course as part of what appeared to be a well-co-ordinated attack, but they were safely disarmed, according to a senior US intelligence official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity because of the continuing investigation.
**
Many runners were heading for the finish when a fireball and smoke rose from behind cheering spectators and a row of flags representing the countries of participants, video from the scene showed.

The two explosions came moments apart four hours and nine minutes into the race, long after the world-class runners had finished but around the time average contestants were arriving.
'Legs blown off'

"I saw people who looked like they had their legs blown off. There was a lot of blood over their legs. Then people were being pushed in wheelchairs," said Joe Anderson, 33, a fisherman from Pembroke, Massachusetts, who had just run the race holding a large US flag.

Many of the victims were gravely injured, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick said.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:19am PT
Condolences to all those in Boston this AM, what a cowardly act!

I was standing at an equivalent spot (of the first blast) this year at the finish of the LA marathon. I have to admit that it made me a bit more aware of my surroundings as I rode the bus into work this morning.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:27am PT
The press conference just held in Boston makes it very clear that no other devices were found.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:28am PT
“If you are not hyper-vigilant and in some way fearful for your very life then, I’m sorry, you’re living on a completely different planet,” National Security Advisor Tom Donilon told reporters. “Now, if you feel like you live in an unpredictable place where somebody hates you for no reason whatsoever and literally wants to murder you even though they’ve never even met you, well, that’s living in the world based on how it truly is. It’s an age of constantly searching for answers but realizing there are none because there are simply no logical answers when it comes to insanity. ”

“That’s pretty goddamn sad, but it’s the truth,” Donilon added.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/this-what-world-like-now,32068/
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:28am PT
anyone who gets PTSD from a photo is most definatly suffering from first world problems....

Great way to blame victims....just as I'd originally posted.

You speak of this illness as one who is an expert at diagnosing and treating it. You may well be.

You may also consider that those who DO have PTSD can experience a re-triggering of symptoms by unexpected exposures to noises.....or violence.
Of course, we owe nothing to such veterans, such as a warning, right?

Some people seem to get very upset by images of violence. If they happen to be dry alcoholics, that can easily be a trigger to drink. No warning for them, either.

but of course, we have no veterans or alcoholics here, eh?
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:31am PT
Werner wrote

Doesn't do sh!t if you know what your doing.

If you want to control IED's explosives you don't need cell tower.

Man you guys don't know much.

Just main stream media is all you know ......

Bingo - that's right folks. Start with a simple midland walkie talkie (the noob climber communication device) and make some basic mods to it and you're set. Why even mod it? We'll you'd prolly want it NOT to go off by accident when someone used their walkie talkie. Pretty basic. Granted you're range is limited but that too could be fixed and this is a VERY simple example of why you don't need cell towers.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:47am PT
In a war, doing the job we volunteered for, trying to stop bad guys, so others can enjoy the FREEDOM of speech, and other freedoms that some take for granted here in America.

And killing a helluva lot of innocent people while we're at it. Look Illusion, I was in the service too. I know which team I'm on, but this idea that we kill only bad guys, and they kill only good guys, or that everyone from their country is bad is just wrong.

I also have a pretty good sense that there is a large difference between a "righteous" war and one that isn't. Doesn't Jesus or God have an opinion on that as well?


How many "bad guys" have we "stopped" ?
And how many have we created?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 11:56am PT
so what is your answer Survival? What IF it is found to be ME types behind this- as it looks now.

Mine is PROFILING..LEO technique 101...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:58am PT
“Now, if you feel like you live in an unpredictable place where somebody hates you for no reason whatsoever and literally wants to murder you even though they’ve never even met you, well, that’s living in the world based on how it truly is."

Someone hates you for no reason whatsoever? Hmmmm, no reason whatsoever... Possibly because they paint us all with the same US AND THEM brush that we paint them with. I don't know, just spitballin' here...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
so what is your answer Survival?

Melt their whole Goddamn country into a parking lot, what else?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
Dingus,, hehehe,, i see your point, however, its quite logical to go to ME news sites about this,, as im sure the FBI is doing much the same.

And yes the images are graphic. But they truly need to be so. A picture being worth a thousand words. It wont be that mans shredded leg that sticks in my mind, but rather his face- a BRAVE and tough American face..



edit: Survival,, how brutal of you.
sharperblue

Mountain climber
San Francisco, California
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
very thoughtful article on how we all react - or are encouraged to react - to this bombing. always question your own assumptions; always know who owns the source of your information; always follow the money

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/16/boston-marathon-explosions-notes-reactions
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9996675/Boston-Marathon-explosion-runner-Bill-Iffrig-knocked-down-by-blast-finishes-the-race.html
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
Supertopo: the number one name in internet news and random emotional speculation.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Another think to think about, from terrorism-research.com:

Fear of backlash rarely concerns these groups, as it is often one of their goals to provoke overreaction by their enemies, and hopefully widen the conflict.

So when the gov't doesn't pour a lot of gas on the fire, which will predictably work people up, perhaps it is because they understand that they can be feeding into the overreaction that the terrorist wants.

They don't want to further the goals of the terrorists, do you want to take actions that add to the emotion and backlash?

I know that I was really proud as an American (not!), when good ol boys took it upon themselves to exact revenge for 911 by killing some o' them turbanhead Sikhs.

OH! Wrong religion!

I think it is incumbent upon Americans to reflect VERY carefully on what they say and do after a terrorist attack. The terrorists desire to control your emotions, words, and actions. Do you want to be acting according to their dictates? Do you want to be acting as their agent?

Who do you want to be in control of you-----you, or the terrorists?
WBraun

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
Ken M -- " it is incumbent upon Americans to reflect VERY carefully on what they say and do .."

You are the biggest hypocrite here.

You should follow your own advice before running your stupid mouth .....
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
Jeesers Ken,, a little LATE arent ya? We get stripped to get on a plane,, there were coast to coast Alerts yesterday as well. Time Square was emptied by police. I would imagine a cool three or four million was spent in assembling the investigation alone.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
so what is your answer Survival?

Melt their whole Goddamn country into a parking lot, what else?

So you Einsteins would attack Saudi Arabia for 911......as Bin Laden intended?

You would attack England for the Shoe Bomber.....as Bin Laden intended?

Why do you want to be accomplices of Terrorists attacking America?
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
I am so confused after reading this thread. Ehhh..I have decided that the culprit is an evil group of obese middle americans that are really behind it all. Turns out they dont like the skinny active types. They are tired of all the bullying ,accusations of fatness and being called lazy.
Using this logic, we should probably beef up security at other locations where skinny fit people congregate...climbing gyms, juice bars, your local crag etc.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
So you Einsteins would attack Saudi Arabia for 911......as Bin Laden intended?

Don't count me in that group, genius.

Apparently you haven't read enough of my previous posts to understand tongue firmly in cheek trolling toward Ron.

Way to jump to conclusions Ken.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
And yes the images are graphic. But they truly need to be so. A picture being worth a thousand words.

Thanks, Ron, for doing the work of the Terrorists! They need all the help you can give them.

Do your best to work people up, from a crowd into a mob. That way we don't have to actually discover any plots or do any search for evidence. Just kill the first thing we see.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
Not even close Ken..

IF this IS another ME bombing, then there IS something we can do.. It WILL BE distasteful.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
So what's your answer Ron?
WBraun

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
Ken M -- "...do any search for evidence."

That's exactly what you've been doing to people on this forum.

Again you are the biggest aszhole hypocrite here.

Follow your own advice first before run your stupid mouth again prick.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
Perhaps your right Dingus, however, i did write a long letter about the UN treaty to each of my reps. Perhaps that helped in defeating that stupid treaty proposal who knows?


And Survival,, following a theoretical situation, and it is found that an ME type was responsible, we have FEMA camps that are there for just such a circumstance. Yes, profile the living hell out of each and every ME type that has come into this country from abroad. Kind of like what they are attempting to do with those on mind drugs and gun owners here..
Since all terrorists caught in this country were labelled by their neighbors--

as such nice quiet people, what OTHER way will ensure the safety of a marathon runner?




When i was raising birds, and had chukar that would attack the others, i DIDNT separate the Quail out of the pen, but rather the chukars..From therei figured out which ones were the combatants..And they were dispatched.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
And if it turns out to be another McVeigh, do we round up every Tea Party and NRA member?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
Gary our citizenry is delt with in a different manner. We parade our mass murderers around, give them endless appeals, book rights , movies of the week and such.

That too is wrong. When caught red handed at a mass murder, there should be a law of RAPID justice here, without ANY fan fare.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
Fuk yeah, PROFILE those anti government types!!

Wait, Ron.. . . is. . an. .anti-gov . ....wait, never mind....
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
Though I'm no fan of gore for its own sake, the public is all too often served up a sanitized version of these attacks and lest everyone is shaken - within reason - by the awful nature of terrorism, we'll keep thinking of these things in terms of statistics, rather than the fact that people are literally getting blown up.

Credit: Largo
Credit: Largo
Credit: Largo
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
Uhmmm Survival doood,, if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, why would you bother the turkeys?


edit: +1 Largo...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
Did McVeigh walk like a duck?
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
Most un-Yogi like behavior, Werner. You sound like one of the "stupid Americans" you constantly rail about. So what's up? Why so mean-spirited and angry all of a sudden?

Been eating too much SPAM lately? (Kidding!) I'm concerned for your well being and I wish you a return to your normal sense of calm placidity. All of us could stand to be more like that, and less wound up and reactionary.

Don't let some troll get you all wound up. What good does that do anyone?

Michael Smith
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
No McViegh was a turkey. BUT McVieghs are also quite RARE where as in radical islam,, ducks are common..In EVERY country they exist in....




edit: So now,, many Americans think theres nothing that can be done- that its "just the world we live in".. p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c..
stephenbmx1@yahoo.com montoya

Sport climber
texas
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
jesus christ, poor people, so sad...


and quit f*#king bitching faggots!
WBraun

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Why so mean-spirited and angry all of a sudden?

Specific reason Nick and has nothing really do with the photo.

I'm standing up against this hypocritical self righteous aszhole who claims
professionalism and and one should collect evidence before coming to conclusions.

Instead this fukhead himself comes to conclusions before even getting evidence himself.

He'll do this with anyone and has many times.

He's done worst to another person who left the forum completely because of this sh!theads slanderous actions.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Ken pegged me as a gun running murderer Werner.. Went of for days about it. Strange for sure.



So will next years marathon be ran in body armor with natl guard lining the streets?
this just in

climber
north fork
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
How is it after every tragedy the same cast of characters argue over nonsense? Condolences to all who lost someone or something in this event, Boston is a great city and my thoughts are with the people who are suffering.
WBraun

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
I'm well aware of this idiots actions, Ron.

I told that prick in the beginning he's fuking with wrong guy.

I will not stand for his hypocritical framing bullsh!t.

Him trying imply me as logging in to some confidential EMS site.

I've never been an EMS nor EMS provider ever.

Here's his exact words.

you probably used your access to confidential EMS blogs. Using that info to post publically is particularly offensive.


All while hypocritically Ken posts under his flag of him being a "Professional"
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
I hear ya Werner..

And TJI,,as well as others,, WHY SHOULDNT WE be discussing this? Or do you think the JT graffiti problem to be more of an immediate concern?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
Werner, we all have out lil shyt stalkers it would appear.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Well, came in this morning to see this thread is raging right along. Plenty of stuff here to make search engines pick up the thread for people that may still be reaching out to loved ones or friends, and they will get to enjoy this. How about letting the smoke clear before you start pointing fingers? I've seen several people blaming the ME already with absolutely no justification that I have read.

Only went back a couple pages and saw this:

Pretty f*#ked up that you guys turn a tradgedy into a pissing match.

Yup. That seems spot on. Try some compassion for a change, maybe?

Serious healing thoughts being sent out to the people, families, friends, and everyone else associated with this horror. I had a friend run yesterday, thankfully he was done long before the blasts.
this just in

climber
north fork
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
Ron, not saying it isn't worth discussion, but it's always the same nonsense. Somehow it turns into a political debate, you get attacked by many posters and then you tend to take the discussion to something that isn't always relevant. An event like this should be a time to unify and help each other. Carry on though, it was just an observation that isn't relevant to this event anyway. Yes Werner I'm being a hypocrite too.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
Well Vegas, you FAILED to read words like "IF" and "theoretical" im thinkin..



TJI, i thought these forums were for such things. And as ALL threads do, they have their spinoff topics, and differing directions.

Having been in the LEO field, i may have a bit MORE frustration than the average citizen- much like i feel when i see a wild fire raging out of control, i feel i still should be there is some ways.
I feel an immediate debt owed to those innocent folks blasted by a cowardly hidden bomb..It IS part of my debt like all of us. We all get a chink in the armor over these horrific acts. And we ALL pray one way or another for those involved.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
I'm a crappy runner, it took me 30 weeks last year to train for the New York Marathon, it was cancelled due to a Hurricane. Weeks of foregoing other adventures, just to get the mileage in.

Boston isn't just another Marathon, it is THE Marathon. It's very hard to get accepted, people wake up at 4 am, for years, to get the training in, just so they can qualify. There are thousands of people out there today, who've had the dream of a lifetime turned into a mess. Some weren't even allowed to finish.

The old saying, "I was sorry for myself because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet", is particularly applicable here.

My heart goes out to those who have been injured and are feeling pain today.
shady

Trad climber
hasbeen
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
The Salt lake city marathon will be run as planned this Saturday.
Me happy. Best way to give terrorists the middle finger is to continue on. Best way to give the victims the raised fist of solidarity is to continue on.
I work near the starting line, and am looking forward to my prestart arrival at work to be extra screwy. Yummmmm......extra screwy!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
Good post Duffield.

DMT
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
My guess is that this is home grown right wing extremests such as the Olympic Park bombing and the Oklahoma City bombing.

If it had been Al Quaida, then they would have been much larger.

It isn't that hard to make explosives at home, even high explosives. I know how to do a few of them just from studying mining.

Most are hard to make without a basic knowledge of chemistry.

Ammonium Nitrate is hard to find at your local garden center. They replaced it with Urea after the OKC bombing. It is also difficult to detonate. You need a really big cap. McVeigh used det cord.

My guess is that these are either black powder or Acetone Peroxide. Acetone Peroxide has a very short shelf life..a couple of days or so, so it must be used quickly. Also, in its dry form it is super sensitive. Making it is supposed to be pretty insane in itself. It is supposed to be very easy to make in small quantities, but the underwear and the shoe bomber were lucky that they did't blow up taking a piss. That stuff is supposed to be that unstable.

As for the smoke, any explosion is simply a rapid conversion from a solid to a gas. I was worrying that something poisonous my have been mixed in with the bomb. That would be truly horrific.

I will never understand how human beings can be so evil. Then it occurred to me that those drone fired hellfire missiles are much stronger. The whole morality of it gets weird. How can killing be moral?
shady

Trad climber
hasbeen
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
Base104...
I'm with you on this, but simply because there has been no claim of responsibility.I think the major terror groups would have hyped it up seconds after the bombs went off.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
bouncing betty blows your balls off....
AKDOG

Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:54pm PT

What a useless tragedy, for what it is worth, best wishes for a full recovery for all those injured and the families experiencing loss. The real heroes stepped forward and helped and the pictures while gory also demonstrate people’s ability to help each other in the wake of senseless violence.
If anything this senseless act makes me want to sign and run a major marathon again just to show this won't change anyhting.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
I have a bone to pick with those who describe the marathon bombing, or any other such act of terror as a tragedy. The word tragedy has a specific implication of inevitability. A tragic drama for example will show the downfall of a great person due to their own flaws. Or there could be a tragic event such as the loss of a ship at sea. But when man inflicts this kind of terror on his own kind it is not some kind of inevitable thing brought on by risk or flaw of character. It is evil. The events in Boston are more than a tragedy, they are an atrocity. Sorry to nitpick, but I believe that words matter, and the careful choice of words helps to keep us honest and aware.
abrams

Sport climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
Bill Ayers the left wing bomber and U of Chicago professor friend of our president might have some meaningful observations on the Boston blasts. Where does he blog?

Google says his Weathermen terrorist group set off 12 way back when, killing and maiming Americans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/11/books/no-regrets-for-love-explosives-memoir-sorts-war-protester-talks-life-with.html?pagewanted=all

Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:06pm PT

Credit: Fossil climber
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
Apparently you haven't read enough of my previous posts to understand tongue firmly in cheek trolling toward Ron.

Survival, if "trolling" for fun in the context of this tragedy Atrocity is your idea of entertainment, you can leave the discussion to adults.
nick d

Trad climber
nm
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
I understand better now WB. Still, since you know it's BS, and your friends will as well, why not let it slide off like the water off a duck's back.

I had a very bad experience with a well known, well liked poster that wound up costing me over a thousand bucks. He threatened to make legal trouble for me with his high powered lawyer wife if I didn't just let him effectively take my money. Well, I'm not married to a hot shot lawyer and I had no real choice but to give in to the guy.

Of course I have an extremely low opinion of this person, but sitting around and letting it eat at me hurts me and not him. I'm not a healthy person and so I place a very high value on my health. I know our situations are different in many ways, but I think the stress we both feel is similar. I know that stress is bad for my health and I'm sure it's not great for you either.

This clown means nothing to you in the real world so why not just forget him. Let him go on with his internet tough guy bull. Someone who really only exists in cyberspace matters little and is living a pitiable existence.

By contrast, look at the difference that you have made in so many people's lives in the real world. In the climbing world you have a tremendous legacy of helping those in need. When this fvck makes you angry why not think of someone you helped instead. Think of them and feel good instead.

Let the bad guy feel bad, and ruin his health instead.

Good luck to you my brother.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
My guess is that these are either black powder

One of the articles I read said it was gunpowder. They have all kinds of checks in place to prevent people from buying fertilizer but if you want to buy 10,000 rounds and open up all the bullets to extract the powder, that's patriotism and every gun owner's right.

There is no indication of who was responsible, so blaming either muslims or white supremacists at this point only shows a person's prejudices.

My guess would be, a lone nutjob. His reason would be the same reason as the guy in Aurora, Virginia Tech, etc. Mad at the world and wanted to get revenge, wanted to die but not before hurting as many others as possible. If it was a terrorist or white hate group I think it would have been a lot more sophisticated.

Next question would be, did they use timers or detonation cord? I'm sure the FBI knows this by now. If it was detonation cord it would have to be a really long piece, and would have produced smoke for the time it took for the bomber to run away. Smoke pouring out of a trash can would attract a lot of attention. If a timer or cell phone was used, that's a lot more sophisticated, but the timing doesn't seem to have been very exact.
jstan

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Does it speak well for us that we permit threads on important subjects to become

all about us.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
Credit: internet

http://earthfirstnews.wordpress.com/2013/04/15/the-boston-marathon-and-u-s-drone-attacks-a-tale-of-two-terrorisms/

"The Boston Marathon and U.S. Drone Attacks: a Tale of Two Terrorisms


"Under President Obama, the number of civilian deaths due to drone strikes has increased since the Bush Administration.

To murder several runners using bombs at a sporting event is terrorism.

To murder 175 children using military drones is U.S. policy.

We should accept neither. We should fight against both. ...."
(the article goes on to list the names of 175 children killed by US drones in Pakistan and Yemen.)

Karma is the shits, and it always comes to bite you eventually....


Meanwhile I'm with Werner on this one. False Flag operation. Its my guess that it will be used to justify another war, just give it time. We should waterboard Dick Cheney to find out who is really behind it. (smirk)


So sad for the victims. Welcome to the Kali Yuga.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
Curious that Base knows so much about explosives, but still seems to suggest that high explosives are more powerful.

High explosives tend to be safer to handle than other fuels because they require a high order of detonation.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:46pm PT


What was this thread about, again???...

labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
I have no idea locker
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
Agree that expressing a strong opinion as to the identity of the criminal(s) merely shows some combination of bias and a willingness to form opinions based on essentially no evidence.
But I note there's maybe a spec of evidence pointing to ME terrorists, although it's absolutely possible it's "right wing extremists," random whack job, or someone who couldn't meet Boston Marathon's stringent entrance requirements (that would make me a suspect, you have to be fast for your sex/age).


The U.S. government has warned federal agencies in the past that pressure cookers -- air-tight pots used to quickly cook or preserve foods -- have been turned into bombs in parts of the world. A Department of Homeland Security memo called it "a technique commonly taught in Afghan terrorist training camps."
"Typically, these bombs are made by placing TNT or other explosives in a pressure cooker and attaching a blasting cap at the top of the pressure cooker," the memo said.
Such bombs are "very effective," terrorism expert Jeffrey Beatty told CNN. Taliban and al Qaeda militants "use them to make their IED's," he said.
"That doesn't mean it was the Taliban -- other people can read about this," said Beatty, who served in the FBI, CIA, and the military's Delta Force.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/15/us/boston-marathon-investigation/index.html?iid=article_sidebar
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
Curious that Base knows so much about explosives,


curious?

I'm not, as he is a professional scientist with extensive background and training in earth sciences, particularly Geology

that alone suggests he is quite likely to know of the chemistry behind mining and explosives
ELM !

climber
Near Boston
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
170+ injured and 3 dead. One of the dead was an 8 year old boy. A few of the 170 will never be able to return to the life they had before; they've lost limbs or have severe head injuries.
Start a collection for that. Instead of pissing at each other.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
So it does appear that the IEDs were pressure cookers according to all the main media sites now. Afghanistan in particular uses these devices .

Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
Under President Obama, the number of civilian deaths due to drone strikes has increased since the Bush Administration.

As compared to the hundreds of thousands dead as a result of "direct" bombing collateral damage under BOOO-Sh...t

If the shrub had the technology as available as it is now, you can bet he'd be just as or more prolific.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 03:34pm PT



This from Jihadwatch.com




Jihad group claim: Jihadists arrested in Pakistan, Afghanistan over Boston
terror bombings
And "members of Gaza’s Jihadiya Salafia group further said that al-Qaida is being credited for the attack in its affiliated online forums."

"'Arrests in Pakistan, Afghanistan' in Boston Marathon probe," by Aaron Klein in WND, April 16:

TEL AVIV – An al-Qaida-allied group in the Gaza Strip claimed to WND that there have been arrests of jihadists in both Pakistan and Afghanistan as part of the probe into yesterday’s Boston Marathon explosions.
The arrests could not be immediately confirmed.

Members of Gaza’s Jihadiya Salafia group further said that al-Qaida is being credited for the attack in its affiliated online forums.

The Gaza sources told WND the online al-Qaida forum messages claimed the bombings were an al-Qaida response to a U.S. military airstrike that killed a high-profile Taliban leader and four other Taliban members last week near Afghanistan’s eastern border with Pakistan.

Jihadia Salafia represents al-Qaida in Gaza.

It was not immediately clear whether the Internet claims should be taken seriously or simply represented jihadists utilizing the explosions....

The Pakistani Taliban today reportedly denied any role in the marathon bombings.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
Ron, you can't be serious, every home in America has a pressure cooker.
This has redneck written all over it. A jihadist isn't going to ruin a
perfectly good pot.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
Well ive known a few rednecks,, all of which know how to cook with a p cooker AND C pot! I dont see them wasting one either! And I PRAY it wasnt an American. The victims at least would have that.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
Where are the folks that invariably will think this is a conspiracy and the bombs were actually placed and detonated by our own government?
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 16, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
That's what they mean by "false flag." See above.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 16, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Ron, you can't be serious, every home in America has a pressure cooker.

Yes, but they are widely used in Afghanistan, along with waffle irons, crock pots, and other electric-powered kitchen appliances.



TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 16, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
Pressure cooker bomb

http://www.dvidshub.net/image/342997/ied-training-helps-marines-identify-threats#.UW2YZEnD_IU

Guess where

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
you basic redneck would have used PIPE...
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Apr 16, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
Should we be Vigilant?....Look where that got us after 911.

We should step back once,take in the exposure,facts will prevail.

As Mr. Braun once said,"Equipoised through all enjoyment and suffering".

Solemn,Respectfull discussion would be good.

Think about Peace.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 16, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
It all makes sense now -- they mailed the pressure cooker halfway around the world.

We should start our investigation at the Kabul post office.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 16, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 16, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
By now I imagine the metallurgists have determined which Kmart the pressure
cooker was sold at. Even money says it was either Peshawar or Lubbock.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 16, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
I avoid the Peshawar K-Mart because it is tough to find parking.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
The first WTC attacks were solved by piecing together a VIN number of the van used to deliver the explosives.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 16, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
John Stannard said: Does it speak well for us that we permit threads on important subjects to become

all about us.


I think it's okay for this to be about us so long as we're honestly relating our own thoughts and feelings. But to twist such an "important subject" into selfish rants and mud slinging does NOT speak well for any of us, IMO.

JL
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
Reports say they are celebrating in Jordan by radicals, as well as many other countries, and Hezbollah and all the
other radicals are reported to be dancing in the streets handing out candies to passers by..


what would you do if you went to the store today and some wad was waving a sign saying Jihad to Boston Infidels??
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 16, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
As we did when Bin Laden was killed.....

You are non stop Ron. ;-(
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
So your comparing You and I to Bin laden and his tactics? Im sorry but i dont buy that for a second. He was ONE evil individual we targeted. Ive NEVER celebrated the killing of innocent people. Not once. And YES there IS collateral damage in WAR, but their purpose IS to kill and maim innocent people while we do everything we can to avoid it.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Apr 16, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
I've been "out of the loop", so to speak, on dealing with explosives for close to 50 years. I served 23 months in Vietnam and humped plenty of C4 on my back, and nearly got blown up on my last day over there, by the same stuff, which was pilfered by the VC.

When I just heard of the so called "pressure cooker bomb" today, I thought what the hell is this.

With my past experience, it didn't take me long to see the advantages in using an easily obtained item from any department store.

It is made of metal, with an easily closeable, water tight gasket. It would be easy to pack shrapnel around the explosive for maximum damage. If one looks at the possible choices to encase a bomb, sorry to say, the evil perps
chose a very viable solution, which has been used before.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 16, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
Reports say they are celebrating in Coeur d'Alene by radicals, as well as many other counties, and Idaho militia and all the
other radicals are reported to be dancing in the streets handing out candies to passers by..
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
got a "link"??



edit: SteveA, my condolences to your fellow Mass residents.


I have a friend that lives fairly close by to the happening.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Apr 16, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
Looks like you've attracted quite a few leg humpers on this thread Ron? Might be a record for ya :-)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
U may be onto something Dirtclaud..
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
wow...and good lord of nature. Ya CANT make this shyt up^^^ ...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
you know something d#@&%ebreath,, youve NEVER HEARD me complain about the GOOD FOLKS that have immigrated here. Ive talked about NOTHING but criminal gang members, so you can shove you lying ass crap back up the hole it originated from...I certainly wont hazard as a guess as to which orifice that may be.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 16, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
Wow, you all should slow your roll.

You've let this event get the best of you.

Name calling only makes you guys seem super childish, I for one ignore posts from childish name callers.

Grow up, show some respect, and act like adults.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 16, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
And YES there IS collateral damage in WAR, but their purpose IS to kill and maim innocent people while we do everything we can to avoid it.

Well, not always, Ron. Sometimes, we've gone out of our way to do the opposite.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
Tru that Gary. And a lot of those doing it were punished, not celebrated.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 16, 2013 - 08:12pm PT



Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood condemns Boston blasts

Source: AP/Salon

CAIRO (AP) — Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood has condemned the Boston Marathon bombings, saying that Islamic law, or Shariah, does not condone violence against civilians.

A Tuesday statement from the Islamist group’s political arm, the Freedom and Justice Party, expressed “condolences to the American people and to the families of victims, with hopes for a quick recovery of those injured.”

The party also says that Islamic law “firmly rejects assaults on civilians and doesn’t accept any means of terrorizing people, regardless of their religion, color, or gender.”

“The sinful assaults in Boston ascertain the necessity of solidarity of the international community in efforts to achieve justice and well-being for all nations and communities, and to ensure that these crimes don’t take place again,” the statement reads. Egypt’s President Mohammed Morsi hails from the Brotherhood.
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
The Search Angel who made that first call to my birth mom's sister after I learned my birth mom had passed away last March has an adopted son. She adopted him when she was single. He was raised for most of his life in this area.

His best friend from growing up was in the Marathon, across the street from one of the bombs when it went off.

His father was running, pushing him in his wheelchair, as he has done for every year for well over 25+ years.

My Search Angel's son and his best friend suffer from cerebral palsy, which keeps them confined to their wheel chairs most of the time. He nearly lost his best friend; his best friend's father can not hear as a result of the blast (with hope that this is not permanent).

Credit: LilaBiene

I've decided to walk the marathon route next year, following the runners. Any and all are welcomed to come along.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 16, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
I dunno if this is a terrorist or some lone guy with a beef toward mankind, but this sort of thing happens for one reason:

It is FAR harder to get famous for doing something constructive. Far more difficult.

Any idiot can do something destructive and then be remembered by name for a hundred years.

My only cure would be to agree to never print the guy's name after it settles down. Never. Non person. Perhaps start a barrel of sh#t list. Put his name in it as a worthless waste of humanity.



wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:20pm PT
with ya there BASE.
shady

Trad climber
hasbeen
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
There ya go Base, I've often thought along those same lines. +1
Refered to in the future as "the perpetrator."period.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
By now I imagine the metallurgists have determined which Kmart the pressure cooker was sold at. Even money says it was either Peshawar or Lubbock.

lol - I stayed in Peshawar a few days and the metallurgy I observed there consisted of hammering on horseshoes and making window bars out of wrought iron. They use open fires with bellows, no kidding.

People have tried to use nmr spectroscopy to match bullet slugs but the technique is not really accepted. It also requires that you have standards from different manufacturers to compare against. I'm sure you're joking but if the pressure cooker was really made over there then the metallurgy would be so bad, you probably could tell it wasnt made in the west.

I went into a gun shop in Peshawar and the gun dealer wanted to sell me something that looked like a cross between a shotgun and a copper pipe. The manufacturer's name was stamped on the side, letter by letter. At the moment I am drawing a blank on which kind of gun it was supposed to be, all I remember is that they spelled it wrong. I pointed this out and everyone became furious at me, just thought I was f*#king with them but it was true. Since then, though, I think they built an M-16 factory in Peshawar. Nearly everyone you see there is armed with an AK-47 or one of the Indian machine guns, and I'm talking about civilians.

The FBI are putting out some details of the Boston bombs but witholding details about the detonator. The reporters are, as ususal, not able to really figure out that this detail is missing and how important it is.
abrams

Sport climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
unnamed sources infer that the bomber waited 2 hours after the world class muslim marathoners had finished and left to their hotels so only the slower American runners and spectators would be caught in the blasts.

Points toward islamic terrorists.
WBraun

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
unnamed sources infer

That's how false flag operators operate.

they always say "unnamed sources"

It's bullsh!t and people like you fall for this nonsense.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
unnamed sources infer that the bomber waited 2 hours after the world class muslim marathoners had finished and left to their hotels so only the slower American runners and spectators would be caught in the blasts.

OOH ooh ohh
I know who the unamed sorce was!!

RON A!!!

My appologies for the outing
abrams

Sport climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
well ok WB. but tell us now how the world news would read if the blast had
caught the lead dude at the finish line?

Gene

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
unnamed sources infer that the bomber waited 2 hours after the world class muslim marathoners had finished and left to their hotels so only the slower American runners and spectators would be caught in the blasts.

Points toward islamic terrorists.

I infer that the perp was a world class runner who finished in the top 10, had a beer - making him/her non-Islamic - and a shower, and came back to trigger the bombs.

That's what I infer.

g
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Apr 16, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
Well, I read enough mud slinging in 2 posts to get a little disgusted.

I heard about this last night. After feeling woozy and unexplainably shitty all day. Shock for sure.

Today, I could barely keep it together. I didn't even realize what was up till my mind drifted to Boston and stayed there a little more firmly. Then I lost it. For about an hour after I got home from work today all I could do was cry.

We are not immune, and the policies of OUR government have MUCH to do with this tragedy. Weather it was internal radicals or some foreign group, our governments negative actions in the world have negative consequences in our homes.


I have never been ok with that.




Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 16, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
unnamed sources infer that the bomber waited 2 hours after the world class muslim marathoners had finished


wow, and all this time I foolishly thought the true world class marathoners were not from Islamic countries


care to name just a few of these Muslim "world class" runners?

or maybe ask an "unnamed source" to "infer" their names for me?

thanks
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:00pm PT
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
The FBI has found this mysterious clue at the crime scene. I wonder what it means?
Credit: Don Paul
QITNL

climber
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
I hope those who are distributing Al-Qaeda propaganda here are being well-rewarded for their efforts.

But why do you choose to attack a climbing forum? We live under the constant threat of yer gonna die - you expect us to live a life of fear?

I give my condolences to those affected and the city of Boston. We're bigger than you.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:50am PT
I am skiing in Whistler right now. Since moving out West, I can't afford to run Boston every year anymore. I loved that race. I ran it 16 times in 18 years, had my best and my worst marathons there.

The blast was at 4:09 after the start. Years ago, it would have been the back of the pack. However, Boston now has a two wave start, half the field starting, and the second half starts 30 minutes later. Qualifying standards have been relaxed over the years. I am not as up-to-date on the men's standard. Women now qualify with 3:40 and slower for older age groups. At 4:09, your people having a bad day for the fist pack and runners doing well for the second pack would be finishing. Some charity runners don't need a qulaifying time if they raise a lot of money for certain charities.

When I finish a marathon, I really am spent and can't handle much jostling, climbing curbs, ...... A shock like that would be extraordinarily difficult to handle. I get very cold as I stop running, no fuel left in the body to warm up. A few times, I have visited the medical tent for rehyrdation and hypothermia at the finish. I can't imagine how I could muster the extra strength to deal with that. I am in awe of the doctor that finished the race minutes before, then performed surgery all day/night.

There is no good place for this to happen. There is no justification for hurting spectators and runners on a real international celebration. But I do know that the medical staff - all volunteers - are top notch. The medical team can handle a lot. So many people will live due to the skilled people, armed with medical supplies including lots of patient moving devices located right at the incident. Ambulances are always on standby there. The communications are great. 400 national guard, many recently back from the war zones, were keeping order at the finish line and were all trained in bleeding control and many probably saw IED damage in the war. I am so thankful that all those good people were there to help. An incident like that at the start or mid-course would have resuilted in far more deaths as the people, supplies, and immediate access to transport/hospitals would not have been in place.

Many times, others seem to enjoy misery for Americans. I was comforted to hear the Canadians and folks from around the world skiing at Whistler expressing their sympathies and disbelief. There are many good people in this world. The Canadian television covered the incident like it was very personal for them, too. There were 2,000 Canadians in the race, and many of their families standing at the finish line, too.

I will run Boston again, probably at the next birthday that has a zero. I am a New Englander. I can't wait to get home to a computer that works better, look at all the CT newspapers to see which of my old running team mates and friends were there. There is probably nothing we can do from afar. The need to reach out and help is overwhelming.

I was struck by a little girl's observation that there was so much mass violence now - citing this, Sandy Hook, and the Colorado theater shooting. I had processed this as an act like 911, thinking it had been awhile. She had categorized this much differently. Is that how we cope, by putting events in such different boxes so we don't get overwhelmed?

QITNL

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:00am PT
Best post so far. I've never run a marathon for lots of different reasons, too early in the morning, fear of crowds. Cheers to a fellow runner. Not that I could keep up with you, but that makes me proud.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 17, 2013 - 03:43am PT
Wow coz. +Infinity man!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:45am PT
hey there say, seamstress...

thank you for sharing, and, as to the
candaian information--as a new englander, you have
really bared your heart, as well...

hope you get to hear from your friends...
god bless
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:08am PT
hey there say, lilabiene...

oh my, as to your post about the father-son team, well, my
stamp-fairy (stamp angel) every year is so happy to TELL me
about them! this year she said they were/or had, put up a
statue about them in boston...

recently i TOLD her about your wonderful story, as to
learning who your birthparents were, so she kind of
'know who you are' now, :)

she will be so thrilled to know these are friends of
friends of yours...

later, i will email you more...
thanks for sharing, and prayers for your friends...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:25am PT
Is that how we cope, by putting events in such different boxes so we don't get overwhelmed?

Yep. And coping is why threads like this exist. Its easy to get disgusted with seemingly disrespectful comments and arguing and such. But those folks (us folks) are just trying to cope, too, to process this and try not to go batsh#t.

DMT
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:44am PT
This instance is just another example of how most of you let the media whipsaw your emotions. No one knows if it's false flag, domestic or forigon terrorist, blah blah ...so what? It will get sorted out and sorted out without all of our speculation. Step away from the monitor for a bit and think of your personal existence, what are YOU personally seeing? I see lots of good and lots of amazing things. Not to say bad doesn't happen, but this is how they sell ad space and they pump it up so that you all fall for it, become fearful and thus make them money by reading their schtick.

My brother was at milepost 25.4 when the bomb went off. So I know that it intrudes into our lives at times, but it's really on the perifery IMO, and the media blows it up to make a buck. You all buy into the media hype so that they can make money.

Montieths idea not to publish the identity of the various douchbags who get found out doing this kind of thing is already being done in this country with suicides, especial colleges and high schools. The mental health people said that publishing the identity and photo will make others sympathetic and thus duplicate that feat and indeed that's what occurs time and time again. Yet we learn nothing and publish the various shooters names and then get copycats. Werners right, we are stupid.

I think this LA Times writer has a good piece along those lines I offered on top with a few more facts than I presented. The title is "WE'RE SAFER THAN WE THINK
As horrible as the Boston bombings were, the kind of mass terrorism that the 9/11 attacks seemed to herald hasn't happened in the U.S.

By Doyle McManus

April 16, 2013, 5:35 p.m.

After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the most frequently heard forecast was: “This changes everything.”

Americans would live in constant fear of the next attack, many pundits predicted. The desire for safety would spawn a security state that would trample constitutional freedoms. The economy would take a long-term hit. American life would never be the same.

Most of those dire predictions didn't come true, of course. The U.S. economy rebounded quickly. Civil liberties came under stress, but fears of a surveillance state weren't realized. Fear hasn't ruled our lives either. Since 2007, more Americans have ranked unemployment as a bigger worry than terrorism. One reason was that it turned out terrorism, despite our fears, wasn't really on the rise.

FULL COVERAGE: Boston Marathon attack

Terrorism wasn't unknown in the U.S. before 2001; far from it. Anarchists and labor agitators wreaked havoc in many cities in the early 20th century. Antiwar radicals planted bombs in the U.S. Capitol in 1971. Between 1963 and 1981, one president was assassinated and two others nearly killed. From the 1960s through the 1990s, attacks were mounted by anti-Castro activists, Puerto Rican nationalists and a right-wing extremist named Timothy McVeigh, among others.

But since Sept. 11, 2001, both the number of terrorist attacks and the number of deaths from terrorism in the U.S. have declined. According to a report last year from the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism, law enforcement agencies' success rate in thwarting attempted attacks is up as well.

From the raw numbers, a few other trends are also noteworthy. Terrorist acts by Muslim Americans, once feared as a growing problem, have declined since 2009. Instead, most of the terrorist incidents in the last decade have been nonfatal attacks by two homegrown groups with specialized concerns: the Animal Liberation Front (which targets farms and laboratories where it believes animals are being mistreated) and the Earth Liberation Front (which has set fire to construction sites it sees as encroaching on wilderness areas).

PHOTOS: Explosions at Boston Marathon

As horrible as Monday's attack in Boston was, the kind of mass terrorism that 9/11 seemed to herald — a wave of bombings in public places — simply hasn't happened. There have been interrupted plots — in Times Square, on airplanes — but there had been abortive plots before 9/11 too.

As political scientist John Mueller of Ohio State is fond of pointing out, Americans are more likely to die by drowning in a bathtub than from a terrorist attack, even after Boston.

So the question isn't why are we in such danger? Instead, it's why are we so safe?

The growing counter-terrorism units of the military and intelligence community will tell you that it's because they have spent a decade keeping Al Qaeda on the run in places such as Pakistan and Yemen, and that is surely part of the answer.

The Department of Homeland Security will tell you that it's because the federal government has poured billions of dollars into domestic intelligence, preparedness and training, and that's part of the answer too.

But what we know about terrorist attacks that have been thwarted during the last decade often points to lower-tech, lower-cost measures: increased vigilance by aircraft crews and passengers (the 2001 shoe bomber, the 2009 underwear bomber), increased vigilance by ordinary civilians (the 2010 Times Square bomber), and increased attention by police forces in general.

“The most important work in protecting our country since 9/11 has been accomplished with the [police] capacity that was in place when the event happened, not with any of the new capability bought since 9/11,” Michael A. Sheehan, a former counter-terrorism chief for the New York Police Department, wrote in a 2009 book. “The big wins had little to do with the new programs.”

And there's another factor: We've been lucky. Most of the potential terrorists who have been caught, Mueller notes, have been “incompetent, ineffective, unintelligent, idiotic, ignorant, inadequate [and] unorganized.”

“Al Qaeda wasn't as good as we thought they were,” Sheehan, now an assistant secretary of Defense, said this year. “[And] we are better than we often give ourselves credit for.”

Have there been mistakes? Certainly. We've undoubtedly spent more than necessary on homeland security, but we'll never know which part of the spending was wasted.

Yes, there have been detentions and arrests that were unwarranted. And yes, in the most shameful chapter of the last decade, the U.S. government engaged in torture that produced little or no useful intelligence, as documented in the report of a bipartisan panel this week.

But for all that, after a decade that began in bone-cold fear, we have remained reasonably safe. The fabric of American life has been preserved. The Constitution and its guarantees are still intact.

In the wake of Monday's tragedy, there will undoubtedly be more inspections of backpacks at stadiums and finish lines, more metal detectors and sensors. The inconveniences and indignities of air travel will continue.

But we're safer than we think we are. For all its excesses and inefficiencies, this may be one problem big government has mostly gotten right.

doyle.mcmanus@latimes.com

Follow Doyle McManus on Twitter @DoyleMcManus"
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:45am PT
Better outlaw:

Ball bearings
Pressure cookers

And don't try and say u "want them" or u "need them"...
Their dangerous
WBraun

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:11am PT
The growing counter-terrorism units of the military and intelligence community will tell you that it's because they have spent a decade keeping Al Qaeda on the run in ...

Pretty weird thing to say when it's the CIA, intelligence community, who really is Al Qaeda and hes been behind the whole Al Qaeda front all along.

You've all been owned .....
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 10:34am PT
Coz NICE thoughts,, and i believe a guy Named Lennon even wrote a song quite similar. The COMMON peoples of the world are already there i believe.
My buddy in Iran wants to be just like us here. He likes the USA, and the USA also likes him. Theres love in the world. And the internet has HELPED that cause quite a bit.

This am i had emails from Norway, Iran and Spain- from friends ive made in my industry- all asking how "we" were. All with much the same reaction as we have had here.

that being said, theres NOT enough love yet...
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:47am PT
Well Ron, say what you will about the internet, but I couldn't imagine anyone from any country anywhere wanting to have anything to do with the USA after reading Joe Hedges mean spirited and mindless drivel on this site.

Werner, any proof or just speculation? I know we funded Al Queffer during the last Afgani war to fight off the Soviet Union, and Iran and Syria say the same as you above. Links?
WBraun

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:56am PT
No you don't want links.

You don't want to be lazy and cheap.

You you need to do deep unbiased research.

it will take you a while.

Not that you go to a couple of places and read a few links and you'll see something.

It takes extensive research not just a cheap couple of links.

Do your research, and it will take you many many months to get a good look to see what's really going on.

But no one wants to do that.

Americans want everything quick and cheap ......
sharperblue

Mountain climber
San Francisco, California
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
thank you, 4chan!

http://imgur.com/a/sUrnA
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
+1 ^^^^!
WBraun

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
sharperblue

How did you find that?

Good find ......
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
Somebody who claims to have all the inside information doesn't know about 4chan?
sharperblue

Mountain climber
San Francisco, California
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
the whole thing stinks. there's no way they could think there weren't a thousand cameras all over that area, and no way to hide. the next 72 hours will be interesting
WBraun

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
Somebody who claims to have all the inside information doesn't know about 4chan?

Dave you are the one who's making the claims that I have all the inside information.

I didn't make any such claims ......
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
Werner, your secret is safe with me.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
Can someone get Werner to the clinic, please?
sharperblue

Mountain climber
San Francisco, California
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
i'm not saying any such thing, Coz; i'm just interested that they clearly knew they would be photographed. lots.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
Coz,, its a very good trick to keep US guessing. Al-quay-duh knows this too. I HOPE it wasnt an american..
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
People tend to take off their backpacks and carry them when walking through a crowded area.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
I'm pretty sure the FBI will find the bomber(s) in photos. The more difficult thing will be identifying them. Anyone with pictures (crappy ones whatever.. the more people in them the better) anywhere near that area that day really should e-mail copies to the FBI. The trick will be tracking the bomber to a vehicle, motel or residence. And getting some good facial features if not disguised.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
And wouldn't a photog have at least one camera out and in use?
That is a very large backpack for just 'hanging out' with on the sidewalk.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Coz,, look at recent bombings in the ME,, they are quite similar. And of course, many jihad types are already laying claim to this on AlJazeera and other ME news sites. It COULD be a domestic cell of al-quay-duh.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Reilly it is. It would certainly be considered a possible lead by investigators. But they will be pouring over everything they can get and looking for stuff just like this and then trying to get more pictures too.

It could be anyone. Without evidence everything is on the table. But I'm sure the FBI has found at least pictures of the bomber(s) by now.
Binks

climber
Uranus
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
What a terrible event, feeling great sympathy for the victims. However my attention span just isn't there for violence and strident rhetoric anymore as a point of focus. I hope they find the bastards and put'em away.
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
You've all been owned

That's putting nicely, Mr Yogi. I can't believe you even bother with this stuff.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."



Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
Oh boy this is predictable yet slightly entertaining.
Left Wing Know It All - Conclusion: Bombs placed by Texan right wing nut job
Right Wing Know It All - Conclusion: Bombs placed by Obama or Muslims

Let go of your pre conceived ideologies and let common sense prevail. America would be a better place if folks used common sense. Regardless, those on the far right or left will refuse to believe what our government tells us. Same old story.......blah blah blah

Have fun with this...I am going to be more productive today and go climbing.



blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
BREAKING NEWS


Source tells CNN's John King that Boston authorities believe they have identified a suspect in bombings.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
Yes,, and hes one of those identified in the link of pics provided above.! The man running in the vid posted..


In FACT much of this investigation has been the FBI requesting pictures and video from the event. An Obvious resource..
eKat

Mountain climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
Cary Stayner

HolyScaryMotherF*#ker!

Ew!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
First, a real photog never puts his camera away. That guarantees you will
miss the money shot. If he was there just to shoot the elites he would have
left to get his shots to his editor/blog/whatever and not stuck around for
two hours to wander around aimlessly unless he was getting ambience and
crowd shots, which he clearly wasn't after.

Second, a 300mm lens would be useless unless you had credentials to be on
the finish line shooting straight down the street. Shooting from the crowd
at an angle to the runners would be useless. An 80-200 would be all you
need from the sidewalk.

Third, real photog backbacks are more sleek with all the gear arranged in
one plane so that you open the back flap and it is all there for quick access.
That bulgeing thing that guy has is no photog's backpack.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
First, [...]
Second, [...]
Third, [...]

Forth, my kids carry backpacks about that size to school every day.

And they are in second grade.

Logic 101:

The bomber likely had had a large backpack.

...but it does not follow that anyone with a large backpack is a bomber.

(unless of course, they are brown)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
Logical inferences are not assumptions. It just means that dood has some
'splainin' to do as a 'person of interest'.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
Arrest has been made. 2 sources.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
When I was growing up, "domestic terrorism" was when we kicked potatoes into tail pipes.


It was called "conspiracy to commit domestic terrorism" when we did it with friends.


Did I get a hit?
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
It just means that dood has some'splainin' to do as a 'person of interest'.

It means that it would be wise and prudent for law enforcement to identify and question him.

It does NOT mean that "he has some 'splainin' to do."

The law doesn't compel him to prove his innocence just because he owns an ordinary backpack.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
The Latest:

CNN's John King confirms what local media and the AP had been anticipating: He cites a local law enforcement official in saying that "an arrest has been made." Another CNN federal source said the same. The Boston Globe reports "official said authorities may publicize their finding as early as this afternoon." A news conference is scheduled for 5 p.m. Eastern.
CNN's King is reporting that "substantial progress" has been made in the investigation: Boston officials believe they may have identified a bombing suspect. It is said to be a "clear identification of a suspect" based on new video, obtained with help of a local TV station. King's law enforcement source in Boston called it a "significant breakthrough" and a "game changer," having been told there is "one suspect" — though this doesn't necessarily rule out a second suspect.
A second source briefed on the investigation told King that department store video (apparently surveillance footage) from a local Lord & Taylor in Copley Square shows a clear facial recognition; investigators had been looking for video of a suspect placing down a bag and walking away. No confirmation of an arrest has been made and no identifying details have emerged other than what was described to King as a "dark skinned male individual." The Lord & Taylor would appear, from the above Reuters photo that appeared on the front page of today's New York Times, to have been the second blast site.
The Boston Globe is reporting similar news: "Authorities have an image of a suspect carrying, and perhaps dropping, a black bag at the second bombing scene," its homepage reports. And there's more:
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
So, Inspector Hedge, you saying you wouldn't want to talk to that guy?
You would only follow up leads derived from tea leaf readings?
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
Oh, boy ... I can't wait for the announcement!

Who will prevail? The Left or the Right?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
Arrest has been made. 2 sources.

Damn, they're good, if they're right. What is that, like 34 hours?

Holy buckets.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Reuters: "CNN is saying a suspect is in custody. NBC is saying there is no suspect in custody.
Reuters has not yet confirmed either report."
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Yes they are. It's a basic type of investigation with thousands of witnesses and massive amounts of photo/video evidence. Nearly unlimited resources and manpower.

As I said a page back I would have been surprised if the FBI didnt have a good idea by now.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 17, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
It means that it would be wise and prudent for law enforcement to identify and question him.

It does NOT mean that "he has some 'splainin' to do."

The law doesn't compel him to prove his innocence just because he owns an ordinary backpack.

Dave is confusing legal rights with actions that justifiably arouse suspicion and may lead to further investigation. He's certainly correct that a suspect has no compulsion to prove innocence, but it doesn't follow that investigators need to ignore a refusal to cooperate.
Logic is fun!
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
it doesn't follow that investigators need to ignore a refusal to cooperate.

No it doesn't follow. That's why I didn't say that.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
Personally I would prefer that arrests and information on the investigation would not be reported so quickly. If more than one person is involved I would gladly sacrifice my curiosity in order to allow those involved remain oblivious to the progress of the efforts to get them.

It is best for the investigation if they have time to surveil or capture unsuspecting communications and or turn suspects against their possible conspirators.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
While I find no humor in the event in Boston, the banter present on this thread is AWESOME!
When the announcement of the suspect is made, I see this thread taking the following turns:

1) Lefty's - Poor muslim probably was tortured/ America had it coming or I told you it was a right wing GUN NUT. Obama is my savior/ Bush is the devil, See I am right and better/smarter than you. Time to ban pressure cookers or maybe just tax the S*** out of them.
2) Righty's - Told you it was one of those godless sand NI*@*!#* . We need to nuke those satanic losers. We are due for a new WAR. See bombs kill too, not guns OR if it is a domestic suspect, he must not have received the proper mental care. Our system is failing. Obama is the devil. Heck, the suspect is probably a secret operative working for Obama.

Jeez, I could go on an on but I will let you guys take it from here.

By the way COZ, I was not referring to you in my previous post.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
well thats a wee drama queenish Snowmass...

I haven seen this as a "left or right".. For craps sake, ill bet there were Dems, repubs and even independents in that race and crowd. Some will never break free of that..
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
From a recent headline:

A suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings has been identified and will be arrested

Would it not make sense to make the announcement after they arrest the guy?

Or maybe they are watching to see who runs out of their house suddenly...


Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
Richard Jewell also comes to mind when the FBI announces they have a suspect.

True story, I was there when that bomb went off. It was a free outdoor concert, my college was only about 1.5mi away, so a group of about 8 of us went to the show before heading out to the bars. After an hour or so the band went on set break, so we decided to head back home to do bong loads. Got almost to the cars when a muffled boom and then endless sirens. We must have passed a dozen cops/ambulance/fire trucks, got home and turned on CNN to find out WTF.

Strange times in the ATL right after that. That poor dude Jewell was just a rent a cop who happened to be there. I'll always remember that the cops tore his mother's house apart in a search and apparently messed up here tupperware or something. Then they finally caught Rudolph, the "Army of God" anti-abortion, anti-gay fanatic who actually did it (and bombed gay night clubs and abortion clinics prior to that) many years later.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
"Would it not make sense to make the announcement after they arrest the guy?"

The Frisco paper is saying someone has been arrested, and he'll be "in court in Boston", but failed to say "when".
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
Damn, they're good, if they're right. What is that, like 34 hours?


either that or Werner is right.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:20pm PT

The Frisco paper is saying someone has been arrested, and he'll be "in court in Boston", but failed to say "when".


No eta? How will they set the timer right then?
sharperblue

Mountain climber
San Francisco, California
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
actually, Snowmass, that's a fair summary!

Seriously though people: citing CNN and Fox as sources - ? the rabid NY Post's initial reactionw as so inacurrate and over the top propaganda that the ONION (truly, America's Finest News Source) is making fun of its chief editor:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/this-is-a-tragedydoes-it-really-matter-exactly-how,32076/

carry on
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
either that or Werner is right.

Well if Werner is right, then why pull all these strings? Why not just march us all off to the meat factory hip hip?

I guess the corrupt invisible elite aristocrats that run the world need all us little ants?

If they actually control everything, then why don't they just announce that they're in charge and put us all in our place?

You mean, if they announced it we could take control back from them?
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 17, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
Ron, unfortunately everything seems to become a lefty/righty thing these days. I recall seeing some politicians blaming the Boston events and response to the events on the sequester. Boy...we really have some idiot elected officials. Exploiting a bomb at a marathon for political advantage is sad.
Yes, my response is a bit dramatic but not far off from stuff I see on the taco. Also, I am a bit pissy today as it keeps snowing in Colorado. I have an afternoon free and the snow is pounding outside my office window.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 17, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
The same paper that reported "A suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings was taken into custody Wednesday in a breakthrough that came less than 48 hours after the deadly attack", is now saying the opposite is true.

I guess it's more important to those in the news biz to be first, rather than right.

Any report that's missing any of the "W"s ( who, where, what, when, why, how, etc ) is probably wrong.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
Dang,SMG, we had that yesterday! Spring in NV means wait an hour the weather will change. And yeah,, politicians will sling the poop at the most utterly ridiculous times and reasons. But i have hopes that the average person is a hell of a lot better than our average politicians at this juncture.;-)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
huh? Cnn says FBI says no arrest?



edit: Lots of tweets and pics of DHS clearing out the FED court house in Boston- so something is happening.



Ive watched the google link page fluctuate greatly today- many stories of an arrest, then POOF and there is only one left. Then the court house gets cleared in Boston. Folks are being held 100 yds back from it.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 17, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
No arrest, damn, now I gotta take my noose off the tree.

edit: Just saw this web page

http://imgur.com/a/sUrnA/noscript
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Apr 17, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
I think if folks just looked at credible news sources there would be a lot less confusion- many real sources didn't put up any erroneous arrest info in the first place. Blogs, tweets and random websites are not news.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 17, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
I heard it was an inside job to give the govt. a reason to take away are bombs.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
* Reuters - witnesses confirm that Boston police have cleared the Boston courthouse, ordering court staff, attorneys, and media to clear the building.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Apr 17, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
This video is interesting. Some in Egypt are saying the Mujahideen is involved.

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 17, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
* Reuters - witnesses confirm that Boston police have cleared the Boston courthouse, ordering court staff, attorneys, and media to clear the building.

Another paid day or two off.
sharperblue

Mountain climber
San Francisco, California
Apr 17, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
MEMRI? HAhahahaha! oh - please stop - my side hurts. Please, please do not start by sending links to the propaganda arm of the hyper-right. Just refer us directly to Cheney, Bibi, and Wolfowitz' PR people next time

Do a little research on the sources before linking them pls - not even going to try and be nice about slapping that sh*t down
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
Ricen letters being sent to senators as well as the white house.. sheesh whut next.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 17, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 17, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
Bagels are next

PHOENIX, Ariz. - A suspicious package sent to Arizona Representative Kyrsten Sinema's office turned out to be bagels, a source tells 9Wants To Know.

The quick response by her staff came after a scary situation at Arizona Senator Jeff Flake's office.

Wednesday morning, two letters arrived at Flake's office that had an oily substance on it. Authorities in Phoenix do not believe they contained anything toxic.

Two of Flake's staffers and a police officer were taken to the hospital Wednesday morning as a precaution.

Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 17, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
Here we are again....another act of unspeakable destruction and violence meted out on innocents.

The daunting reality of our times is this....we live in a world that grows more and more evil by the day. These things were foretold by the prophets of old....that the days would grow darker.....and we are seeing it in our lifetime.

These acts SHOULD appall us...but as the years go on, they will simply become more the norm than not....and that is the tragedy. Evil is inherent in the hearts of man.....all of us have it to a certain extent.

This thread is a microcosm of this.....look back at how many here responded to someone's simple opinion with an all out attack of words and name calling....that's evil in and of itself. Thankfully, sprinkled in among the shameful posts, there are plenty that are filled with compassion, sensibility, and above all...love.

I'm thankful that the video of the bombing in Boston is a micro-second of violence....followed by literally hours of acts of selfless, unconditional love and response to the dead and injured. This is what we should be talking more about.....the love a stranger has for his or her fellow man....because once these violent acts become more and more the norm, focusing on the evil will only beget more evil. We need to talk more about the love...for that is greater.

As we go forward, the best we can do is remain vigilant, with the knowledge that more and more psychos out there will do whatever they can to inflict their crazy desires and/or agendas on innocent people. They will be pursued....caught....prosectued....and brought to justice....as they should be. Then the next whack job will move to the front of the line to do his worst.

The more evil that is wrought, may I suggest we meet it tenfold.....with unconditional love for each other, as well as perfect strangers....let love be the salve for an increasingly savage world.

Peace,
DR
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
I think, Dean, the world is getting brighter and brighter. In many corners of the world (india, pakistan, Ireland) attacks like this are not only regular, but not even news-worthy.

Indeed, where are the modern Halocausts? Where are our genocides, our inquisition, our black plague? There are no end times, because those that would do such horrible things as attempt to wipe out a race or creed are (for the most part) NOT in control of first-world nation armies. Only sixty years ago the 'jihadists' and 'anarchists' were called the Axis...

A lot of speculation on what it is, but only speculation.

A response I felt most compelling was that by Patton Oswalt.

"Boston. F*#king horrible.

I remember, when 9/11 went down, my reaction was, "Well, I've had it with humanity."

But I was wrong. I don't know what's going to be revealed to be behind all of this mayhem. One human insect or a poisonous mass of broken sociopaths.

But here's what I DO know. If it's one person or a HUNDRED people, that number is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population on this planet. You watch the videos of the carnage and there are people running TOWARDS the destruction to help out. (Thanks FAKE Gallery founder and owner Paul Kozlowski for pointing this out to me). This is a giant planet and we're lucky to live on it but there are prices and penalties incurred for the daily miracle of existence. One of them is, every once in awhile, the wiring of a tiny sliver of the species gets snarled and they're pointed towards darkness.

But the vast majority stands against that darkness and, like white blood cells attacking a virus, they dilute and weaken and eventually wash away the evil doers and, more importantly, the damage they wreak. This is beyond religion or creed or nation. We would not be here if humanity were inherently evil. We'd have eaten ourselves alive long ago.

So when you spot violence, or bigotry, or intolerance or fear or just garden-variety misogyny, hatred or ignorance, just look it in the eye and think, "The good outnumber you, and we always will."
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
The daunting reality of our times is this....we live in a world that grows more and more evil by the day. These things were foretold by the prophets of old....that the days would grow darker.....and we are seeing it in our lifetime.

Wow. Not to minimize the event itself but the carnage is pretty small compared to what life usually doles out on a daily basis. Did the prophets mention thousands of people being killed by drunk drivers per year or just the three people in this one situation.

Terrorism is bad and is done by people who are scumbags but let's not suggest that this is an end-of-the-world event because three people died. Didn't a thousand people die a few days ago in Syria? We've got is easy compared to them.

Dave
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
I HOPE it wasnt an american..

So we can go to war?

Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
"Didn't a thousand people die a few days ago in Syria? We've got is easy compared to them."




This statement makes my point...and also produces another. My post was speaking about the world....not just America.

The horrors that are instigated on human beings around the world ARE growing more and more horrible with every passing day. To deny that is to deny reality.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
The daunting reality of our times is this....we live in a world that grows more and more evil by the day.

Anyone with a high school education in history could provide overwhelming evidence to refute the claim above.

 Slavery
 World War I
 Soviet Purges
 World War II
 The Holocaust
 The Great Leap Forward
 Cambodian Holocaust

Just a few samples from history. People have been slaughtering each other by the thousands for centuries - since the beginning of civilization.

But nothing on the magnitude of the events listed above has happened for decades.

Anyone that thinks the world is becoming more evil should turn of the TV and pick up a history book.

There is less war, less murder, less violence, less exploitation, less bigotry, more tolerance, and more freedom today than there ever has been in history.

And the really good news is that it's getting better.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
jeezzzzz..GDavis,,.. No ,, because i WISH for ALL of us to be beyond that sort of cowardice against one another..
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
I HOPE it wasnt an american..

So we can go to war?

Because he has Lockheed Martin stock in his 401K.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
"There is less war, less murder, less violence, less exploitation, less bigotry, more tolerance, and more freedom today than there ever has been in history"




You need to expand the scope of your view from your neighborhood.....and look at the world as a whole....you're missing reality.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
You present some really strong evidence in your arguments Dean.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
Are you aware that today, globally, there are over 160,000 Christians murdered every year simply for their faith?
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
Are you aware that today, globally, there are over 160,000 Christians murdered every year simply for their faith?

I'm aware that, globally, there are many thousands of people murdered for various reasons.

I don't see any reason to single out any particular subset of the victims.

According to my value system, all human life is precious.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
Snap!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
According to my value system, all human life is precious

Different yardsticks, I guess...

Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
I realize that.....I was simply giving you ONE statistic....a small number of the MILLIONS of people of every race, religion and walk of life, whose lives are taken by evil each and every day.


Apologies for straying from the OP.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
I don't think anyone is arguing that people AREN'T dying and suffering day in, day out, but with A) homogenization of communication and B) transparancy of government, culture and religion it is finding new avenues.

We are trading deaths from rats and the catholic church for drone strikes, small bombs and school shootings.

If you ask me, this is a better time to be alive. We have the most human rights, the most science, the most medicine in the history of the world. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to those things - but odds are they haven't before, either.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
I was simply giving you ONE statistic.

Curious choice of statistic - not verified by any objective source, and a very specific group of people.

I still don't see any evidence to back your claim that there is more "evil" in the world today than in the past.

There are still wars and violence, but today the world's most powerful nations generally work to stop wars - a century ago they were starting them on a big scale.

...of course this will be less true it turns out the bomber refers to The Creator as "Allah" instead of "God"
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
So what happened to the news conference that CNN said would happen at 1700 Eastern?
More disinformation?

The other sobering thing is the stress these 140 odd injuries placed on
the five major hospitals.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
Lots of speculation

http://imgur.com/a/sUrnA/noscript
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
One need only do some research....

http://markmoore.org/resources/essays/acts/persecution.pdf

http://www.ucanews.com/news/persecution-kills-150000-christians-every-year/60090

http://erlc.com/issues/quick-facts/persecution/




"It is believed that Christians today are the most persecuted group in the world. Persecution is on the rise because of Communism, the expansion of Islamic and Hindu extremism, and because of the sparsity of freedom-honoring governments around the world."

The above quote was the reason I chose to post the facts regarding Christians.
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
Uhm, the world more evil now? Wow, not a chance.

An estimated 3 MILLION women were murdered during the inquisition for being witches when they were just healers. All in the name of Christianity. And that is just one, long, really evil period of history that I can recall right now.


Rumor (which I never take for fact)I heard is that Westboro is being looked at HARD. And already overwhelming evidence of a cover up. I would actually be surprised if this came from out of country.
nah000

Mountain climber
canuckistan
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
"The daunting reality of our times is this....we live in a world that grows more and more evil by the day. "

the statement above has virtually no merit if the basis for judgement is objectively based.

decreasing number of casualties due to war:

from "Violence Vanquished" in the Wall Street Journal http://online.ws...
from "Violence Vanquished" in the Wall Street Journal http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904106704576583203589408180.html
Credit: WSJ



a number of metrics from the millennium-project.com [an ngo born out of the smithsonian, un, and a few other organizations]:

global metrics where the world is becoming less "evil" http://www.mill...
global metrics where the world is becoming less "evil" http://www.millennium-project.org/millennium/SOF2011-English.pdf
Credit: millenium-project.org



and looking more deeply into history [albeit less comprehensively and more anecdotally] we are reminded that we've always been a violent ape:

from "Violence Vanquished" in the WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB...
from "Violence Vanquished" in the WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904106704576583203589408180.html
Credit: WSJ




now obviously everything isn't perfectly rosy:

http://www.millennium-project.org/millennium/SOF2011-English.pdf
http://www.millennium-project.org/millennium/SOF2011-English.pdf
Credit: millenium-project.org

and global terrorism as a strategy of war is on the rise. but within the context of total violence it is frankly a blip. to conclude from this singular metric that the world is becoming more and more evil and the prophets are right is incredibly myopic.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:32pm PT
One need only do some research....

I said objective source.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
facts are stupid things
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
and statistics can be manipulated to say anything.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
60% of statistics are made up on the spot.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:48pm PT
I call them cartoons. They would be quite humorous if the manipulation behind them, on either side, were altruistic. The media should back off this Boston story a bit and let law enforcement do it's job.
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Apr 17, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
When Khan's army finally took Bagdad he piled all the mens heads from the city outside the gate of the city in a giant pile. This happened a long time ago.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
An estimated 3 MILLION women were murdered during the inquisition


Oh really?

The Catholics kept very good records, some of which the originals still exist.

Between 1540 and 1746 there were around 88,000 trials and the confirmed number of executions less than 1500.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
You are right, TGT. The world is a much, much more wicked place in 2013.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
That was a really strange leap?

What does a mythical 3 million, (which would have been a huge proportion of the population of Europe at the time) have to do with WWII?

History is episodic and repetitive.

Night always follows day.



cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
the confirmed number of executions less than 1500.

Oh, okay, that's cool, then. lol.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
Just teasin' :)
Gene

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
Can someone remind me what this thread is about?


Thanks,
g
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
it is an ever-evolving conversation.

If you came here for hard-hitting journalism...
Gene

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
I know. I know. I was told upthread.

Supertopo: the number one name in internet news and random emotional speculation.

Carry on.

g
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
Back on topic.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/tough-ruck-soliders-arredondo-boston-marathon
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
Great link, thanks TGT

10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Apr 17, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
Doesn't seem like an al Qaeda type of attack, unless they have changed their modus operandi
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
When I saw the first video of the incident I kinda wondered where these guys came from so quickly and what they were doing there.



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
More recently, extremist Muslim jihadists have posted instructions on how to make Pressure cooker bombs. Last month, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula included an article titled, "Make a Bomb in the Kitchen of your Mom," in the latest edition of its "INSPIRE" Magazine propaganda. The article, reprised from INSPIRE's first edition in July 2010, included detailed, illustrated instructions on making pressure cooker bombs.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
When I was a kid I had the Anarchists Cookbook. I think anyone motivated will always find a way to do something terrible.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
Can someone remind me what this thread is about?

A Christian decided to drop in, so of course we had to persecute him.

Everybody's doing it these days.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
The Catholics kept very good records [...]

Yes, the catholic church has proven to be a reliable source of crime statistics.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
I knew the bomber would be some f*#ked up white dude. Send em back where they came from, the extremist as#@&%es!!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
I knew the bomber would be some f*#ked up white dude


good call

Ron Anderson is going with the Middle East terrorist thing


I thought I would just wait until they arrest someone to find out
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
I thought I would just wait until they convict someone to find out
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
Good idea Norton. Let's all take a deep breath and step back. Whoever it is, they are still terrorist dogs, regardless of source or ideology.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
They could well be Dr. But does it alter the fact that they performed a terrorist action? Should there source be considered at sentencing, or should they die whatever ideology or twisted reasoning?
WBraun

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
All the back channel intel community sites have been unusually quiet about the Boston event.

Normally they're all over about this stuff.

So it's more likely it's a home grown event ......???

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
Maybe not.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/obama-meets-saudi-foreign-minister-discusses-syria-223009934.html

And Wounded Saudi student is being deported next week as a national security risk.

We were lied to about Benghazi already.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
Somebody's been reading a wingnut web site:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3009135/posts


It's on Hannity! It's got to be true!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
We were lied to about Benghazi already.

and Iraq.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
WE WILL USE EVERY OPORTUNITY TO CONTINUE THE BEHGHAZI TEMPER TANRUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
TGT, dodgin' left and right.




edit - holy schitt this guy's bad ass!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:22pm PT
Rick Sumner,

One of the greatest influences directing the poplulace to rampage with clubs and machetes during the Rwanda / Burundi slaughter in Africa were popular radio celebrities.

Agenda directed media for whatever reason, is not the same thing as free speech.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
He looks a lot to me like my manager making it happen and stayin' alive. Lynnie
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
More evil or less these days? I don't know. The world, since recorded time, has been a place of challenge. The challenge, how does one live? Do I love or do I hate? Do I help another make a better place on this planet or do I do the best for my own self.

My best friend jesus challenged every person to love each person they encounter as much as they love themselves. If we all did this on our planet harmony would finally exist. lynnie
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
Maybe this is what Barry was discussing as well.

http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/04/09/20000-u-s-m-16s-stolen-from-unguarded-warehouse-in-kuwait/

20,000 guns missing.

No guards.

How long till they show up in Syria?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Yeah i hear you Brennan, i followed it with disgust and horror that Clinton didn't intervene. Here on this forum i only see left handed fingers pointing hatefully towards their own right hands.You know, it used to be known as the United States ,this side of your border.












Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
jghedge,

If you would take a couple of minutes and read what jesus said in Matthew 5,6 and 7 you would get a glimpse into what his philosophy is for living life. He cautions against greed, prejudice, judging each other and hatred. Never met a wingnut that lived out these words. Peace, lynnie
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
Jesus was a rad dude. If you followed his teachings, you wouldn't be blowing up your brothers and sisters.

The Obama administration has done plenty of terrible, terrible things (and will continue to do so). I'm not on any 'side' TGT, so if you want to complain about the government I'll ALWAYS be 'with' you :)
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
jghedge, so you see that the wingnuts don't know or practice the simple words of jesus, right? They are people that create their own lifeology...not theology.

If you base your beliefs on supposition, Dude, you need to get to the roots and dig, learn and then live. I challenge you to live each day without greed, hate, envy, judging others (in traffic) and selfishness. When have yo consistently lived putting others first? Just asking the questions I ask myself each morning when I wake up and thank God for this one day I have been given. Peace and Joy, L.
WBraun

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
So ...... ?

Anyone know "Who Dun IT" yet?

Joe thinks it's a wing nut?

Is it a metric wingnut or an S.A.E wingnut?

Me .... I already know who did it.

I know everything ..... :-)
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
I for one am exceedingly happy to be alive at this time in history. I know I am fortunate to be born where I was in a country where I did not have to worry about a war in my town or most diseases or starving. Where I learned to read and had access to any information I wanted. I am very fortunate that I value such things and can understand them.

I see that around the world these blessings are becoming more common. That progress has been happening for centuries. I even suspect that in many places it is more common than here in America... which is still pretty damn good.

I grew up during the cold war. A time when you knew that civilization could end within the hour.

Nothing I see today scares me. It is minor compared to so many of histories atrocities. I see a world where people think this is a big deal simply because they have it so good that they have rarely considered what a really big deal would be like.

Be well be happy and do good.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
Thanks ClimbSki2 for providing some much needed perspective.You would think we are all sitting on a powder keg from reading some of these posts.
WBraun

climber
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
You would think we are all sitting on a powder keg from reading some of these posts.

We are sitting on a powder keg.

I see the fuse .....
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:35pm PT
well then put it out..

jeeez

And while you are at it dump out the powder fill it with beer and stash it in the creek.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
Yeah, good point WB, but we don't need to light it ourselves.It would be an outcome that perps of this little terror would like to see.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
[Persecuting Christians]Everybody's doing it these days.

Ya know the really funny part? The Israelis, the fundies bestest friends, may be the worst! George Habash, founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and foremost proponent of the use of terror, was a Christian! As are many Palestinian Arabs. All being persecuted by Israel.

You can't make this stuff up!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:46pm PT
Rick,

Sadly,I have no illusions that it is just time that separates the American reality from the Canadian supposition. ( this is about your below our border comment)

I hope there is no horror like what happened in Boston, here. That's being sentimental though.

I have always had a hard time with the pleasantly satisfied observers here who think there is some kind of moral high ground in Canada being used in a "support" role to whatever is dictated by our treaty commitments to NORAD objectives.

fighter jets from any nation never land with ordinance on board, as a rule. The damned things are expensive and wasting their potential can be irritating to the military, if it's heard about dumping tax supported munitions in the unoccupied desert.

It's assumed that tax money is best spent reaching a defined target. As a tax payer we all like our money spent most effectively...

So I gotta ask, does paying tax for a cause that kills people I never met, make me unwillingly enfranchised, or equally unwilling to be dragged into being a shareholder ?
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
I see why wars are begun...I can't even keep up (and very seriously laughing) whilst I try to figure the last couple of posts.

I need to take out the (very real and smelly)trash. Back later Dudettes and Dudes. Cheers, (as the man, JB, would say.) lynnie
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 17, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
Canada is cool,, you can hunt Moose, Deer, Wolf, Polar bear, Griz, and bigfeets from what i hear.,.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
Well Brennan, all i can say is that sometimes you are an unwilling participant but at the end of the day it's a damn sight better to be a Canadian than a 1990's Rwandan.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
Ya know the really funny part? The Israelis, the fundies bestest friends, may be the worst! George Habash, founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and foremost proponent of the use of terror, was a Christian! As are many Palestinian Arabs. All being persecuted by Israel.

True, but Jews are less distasteful than Muslims, so we'll forget that they are infidels whenever it is politically convenient to do so.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
jghedge, you make no sense. Dude, you can't live on both sides of the debate. Or, I guess you can. But life will tell out.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:00am PT
Oh f*#k off... (Generally, not specifically...)

You guys all watched Michael Moore tell you we all just want to go fishing and leave our doors unlocked in Bowling for Columbine.

We watched yer movie and all looked at each other at the same time and said;

What Canada from another planet did he visit ?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:10am PT
Brennan can you bait us a "Bigfoot". I'll shoot and Ron will stuff. He will be the first taxidermist in these parts to have a bonafide Bigfoot mount. Wow that will look awesome on his "My Art of Death" thread.HeHEHe
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2013 - 12:12am PT


Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada

Apr 17, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
Oh f*#k off... (Generally, not specifically...)

You guys all watched Michael Moore tell you we all just want to go fishing and leave our doors unlocked in Bowling for Columbine.

We watched yer movie and all looked at each other at the same time and said;

What Canada from another planet did he visit ?





BWAAAAHAHAAAAHAHAA! Ohw trust me Jim, you guys arent the only ones wondering what planet hes from.




edit: YES RICK! Im all over that project,, ill buy some foam tomorrow and start pouring for the mannikin,, gonna take a few gallons i suppose!

Wonder if them bigfeets have penis bones like Bears?? Ill make ya a swizzle stick.!
QITNL

climber
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:13am PT
Sounds like they nabbed the guy who was sending the Ricin letters to our President.

Turns out he's a middle-aged white guy from Mississippi, an Elvis impersonator, a Christian.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:29am PT
jghedge, thinking you like to stir the pot......better to head out into the wilderness and find a new path, a new view. Cheers,:D
nah000

Mountain climber
canuckistan
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:31am PT
rubbing salt in the wounds:

initial reports are saying 60 dead and 100 injured in a fertilizer plant fire and explosion near waco, texas just a couple of hours ago. an eyewitness vid of the explosion:



EDIT: keep your volume low if you play the video
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:34am PT
jghedge writes:

"Like I said, no civil rights advance was ever made by tolerating intolerance."



What you see as "intolerance" is simply a differemce of opinion. Reasonable people can hold opposing opinions.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:43am PT
Who's a racist?

Please advise.

I simply pointed out that reasonable people can hold opposing opinions. You seem to disagree.
QITNL

climber
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:50am PT
Anyone who calls our President "Barry" (and isn't a close personal friend) is a racist, in my book. Bonus points if they are old, wrinkly and white.

But hey, free speech, man - call him "Barry" all you want.

[Edit: oh this is just some personal thing, I should stay out.]