What Is Trad ?????????

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tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 13, 2013 - 09:55am PT
Isa following a trad pitch on cannon .
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
Apr 13, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Interesting point. BINTD the mags and gear catalougs did tell us what was right and wrong. I and many others have not had a new glossy climbing rag in over a decade.

maybe you should get back on
the rag, tradman.

the rag is mostly useless, i agree.
though it does tend to curb
the flow when expired ideas are discharged.

in this case, which is certainly not representative of gender intelligence,
a man's brain is the stark equivalent of a she's vagina.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 13, 2013 - 10:06am PT
My post was simply an observation of how things are or seem to be. i did not read your link. obviously these days internet blogs try and tell us what to think and how to act yet the internet simply does not have the voice of athority that a genuine Climbing magazine did BINTD.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 13, 2013 - 10:20am PT
Tarbuster,

no intent to single you out on anything, just addressing the moderator.

I suspect that the distinctions of both trad and sport will disappear about the time our gravestones appear along with the words.

Memes to give us meaning.
the posts that trad still lives are from old fuddy dudes not the avante guard. They can blow their old horns as much as they want about what lives but the sounds fall on death ears, its like the drunk old soldier telling his war stories again & we know the war is over.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 13, 2013 - 10:20am PT
no bolts on this climb....
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 13, 2013 - 10:24am PT
trad is alive and well. what is dying (i hope) is the old trad attitude that everyone elses sh#t stinks and trad climbers sh#t smells like roses...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2013 - 10:38am PT
Tradman:

Ditto. The irony lies in the fact that the tables have been turned for a long time. Trad used to be the majority; now it's the minority. If anything the pendulum has swung the other way, except that rather than sport climbers thinking that everyone else stinks and they smell like roses, I believe the point which Dingus McGee a.k.a. Dennis Horning and I are making is that the whole thing is much more egalitarian now.

Perhaps the point to which Dennis and I would agree to disagree, is that I believe trad is alive and well, just not nearly so culturally prominent as it once was, obviously not by a long shot.

[edit] Based on his post below, it appears we don't in fact disagree on my last point as well.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 13, 2013 - 10:39am PT
Tradsmanclimbs,

agreed the like of that type of climbing will persist, but few in the future will bother to make the distinction, nor will they pack the pride for they see both forms as valid fun. I climb with these young types.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 13, 2013 - 10:40am PT
Climbing is Local
Very true! Which makes for a bunch of more specialized scenes, and in many cases, makes it more provincial. These days you can work through the grades in all kinds of idiosyncratic types of rock without getting the wider picture, ie you could go from zero to 5.14 all in a gym, or all on limestone, or all on granite etc, and still remain virgin to the skills necesary to climb on different medium.

In the not so distant past this was less the case. There was more knowledge that each scene was, in itself provincial and to progress in grades you had to check in with the mainstays, ie the valley ("the 'inhale' valley") or boulder cnyn/ eldo, or whatever to stay in touch.
The scenes and goals are less cohesive these days.

And Dingus, do you really think people doing speed ascents of el cap or freeing wall routes at the highest grades are clinging to the past? I think it's just another localism, like high plains sportclimbing.
Btw did you go with the i-5?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2013 - 10:48am PT
Really nice post there Jay Anderson!
I think that's a very accurate portrayal of the current state of affairs and I would underscore your final point about the Yosemite culture being highly localized yet plenty relevant.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 13, 2013 - 10:53am PT
Jaybro,

i doubt whether speed climbing will ever be widely done. Yosemite big wall freeing is yes another form of finishing off the past. local events.

sport climbing is about steep overhanging featured rock, something Yosemite lacks. you know glacier work is visible there.

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2013 - 11:04am PT
Dennis said:
Yosemite big wall freeing is yes another form of finishing off the past.

Really?
Help me out here please: a couple of posts up you said "agreed the like of that type of climbing [Trad] will persist". Are not these two statements a bit contradictory in terms of your projections?

Do you truly believe that hard free climbing of Yosemite walls and its extension to the mountain's great walls the world over is a dead thing as soon as they finish off freeing all of the aid routes on El Cap?
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:09am PT
There are rules and laws, which can end up arbitrary and contrary to reason when applying them to given situations. Remember, in climbing, as in life, you get to make up your rules; you, also, get to experience the cause and effect of implementing them.

Principles are a little different. They act as guidelines for how to be in the world and are more flexible. Principles can, also, inspire us. When we consider ourselves and those around us, we can understand them and ourselves and how we act based on the underlying principles we use for compass.

Yeah, other people telling you what style you are supposed to use to climb is lame. Other people giving you a sense of their principles and vision they use for their climbing game can be cool. I would put the intro from the 1972 Chouinard catalog in that category (you knew it as coming!). It has served as inspiration and foundation for the principles used when playing the climbing game for a good number of us over the years. Principles can be both inspiring and timeless.

Edit: The principles promoted here concern two issues - 1) Optimize the experience through minimizing the technology and 2) Minimize the environmental impact so as not to adversely impact the adventure for others using the resource after you.



"Given the vital importance of style we suggest that the keynote is simplicity." Yvon Chouinard & Tom Frost
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:09am PT
Tarbuster,

I do think once a given long wall has been freed very few will want to engage in a repeat.

They will go elsewhere and it maybe a multipitch sport climb.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:13am PT
Here's what Trad looks like today...

Ulvetana, Queen Maud Land, Antarctica


tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:19am PT
more often trad looks like hoards of people at the base of the Gunks, cathedral, Whitehorse, beer walls etc which pretty much looks the same as hoards of people at rumny;)
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:27am PT
tradsmanclimbs,

excuse me they have got to have their photo crew!
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:32am PT
Jaybro,

no I5 but a jet pack, hence my bullsh*t to this site coming from Guernsey. The sun is arriving.

The change in equip a long story.

just local events -- ya for the sun!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:42am PT
Trad
Kyle on Exasperator


Luke on The Split Pillar pitch, Grand Wall


Luke on The Sword, Grand Wall

I disagree with, you fall, you lower. We hold ourselves to a higher standard than that. If you don't get it free the first time, you've ruined your onsight. Then you have to settle for a redpoint.

If you fall, and lower, pull the rope and try again on gear you already placed, that's cheating in my eyes. Not a clean ascent.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Here's what Trad looks like today...

[Ulvetana, Queen Maud Land, Antarctica]

More often trad looks like hoards of people at the base of the Gunks, cathedral, Whitehorse, beer walls etc


At least five more people on the ground but not in the frame, two leaders and another party or two higher up also not in the frame.
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