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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 12, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
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Tidal power does NOT have to use an estuary. Try thinking outside the box.
They are working on pylon-barge designs that generate in both directions.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 12, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
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You guys must admit the solar highway system is idiotic and people who rip and throw half their existing house away to be "in" with the latest green trends are wasteful. I gave you an example, with the molten salt tower, of something scaled up into new realms that might just work or become a boondoggle.Yes, their is no longer a need to subsidize any facet of the energy industry.This includes everything from oil field depletion credits, to stranded gas credits, to solar,wind, or biofuel subsidies. The government should get out of the way with all subsidies and over burdensome regulations and simply enforce the common sense rules and laws on the books while eliminating regulation designed simply to stifle one industry in favor of another. A polluter is a polluter and it doesn't take a division of lawyers and rocket scientists to determine that. Let the best technology prevail.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Mar 12, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said!
Whenever government gets involved it just distorts markets, delays the implementation of the most efficient solution and promotes cronyism.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 12, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
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No Rick I for one do not have to agree that the Solar Road concept is ridiculous. I think it is a brilliant and elegant solution to many problems. Watch the TED Talk video before poopooing a good idea.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 12, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
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Ok Philo, please explain to all exactly how a glass surfaced road will withstand the rigors of high impact usage and still efficiently produce power.How do you clean it, how do you repair it, what do you apply to the surface for traction in rain and snow,what are its costs comparisons to conventional roadways, is their more or less carbon and pollutants produced by its construction than conventional roads?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 12, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
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Well to begin with conventional roads are already made mostly of petrochemicals and ground up rock climbs.
I can't tell you how "exactly" how it will be done because I am a cartoonist electrician not an engineer. I only know saying it can't be done is akin to telling ancient mariners they would sail off the edge of the Earth. Famous last words if you will.
I agree and understand there are technical challenges still to be faced. But they will be faced. Smarter folks than us are looking to it now. I find that encouraging.
Or are you saying you like the pot holed status quo?
Eventually the solar roads will be made of easily replaceable panels. Right now they are producing 12' X 12' panels.
Being heated like a window defroster all but the worst blizzards will clear automatically. And the road bed can be able to self sense and warn travelers of conditions with LED surface signage imbedded in the road.
They will start with (i believe they already have) parking areas and such that do not take such strains and stresses as Interstate crashes of semi tractor trailers but they have incorporated these parameters into their thinking. Research is progressing to develop new materials all the time. Glass is a incredibly versatile material capable of fantastic applications. Give the tech a chance. And what a great place for otherwise land choking land fill.
Ol' Alva had to make the materials to prove what others said couldn't be done. But I bet most people don't use whale oil lamps anymore and only use candles for birthdays and mood setting.
Damn that Edison he put the wane on wax.
Same goes for the school drop out who to the chagrin of the world that told him it couldn't be done figured out how to produce continuous seamless copper tubing.
An as a side point think of all the jobs revamping our infrastructure would create.
Here is an informative video of solar potential.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=619373584744657
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 13, 2013 - 12:41am PT
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Ahh, you are an eternal optimist Philo, but i've been hearing about solar shingles for 15 years now and they are still prohibitively expensive compared even to conventional panels-just a relatively low tech comparison to the solar highway dream.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Mar 13, 2013 - 12:43am PT
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Heinlein came up with the solar road idea before 1940.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 13, 2013 - 02:02am PT
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We do not have to remain imprisoned by the status quo of the past.
And the Suns a gunna shine.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
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Mar 13, 2013 - 07:03am PT
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Rick,when i first installed solar panels[somebody else's house]in 83,they were 2 to 3 times more expensive than they are now,production/engineering lowers cost. just sayin
Solar shingles,pricey yes,long term payback yes,energy prices up over 100%in the last 30years.Shingles last 30 years,some easy math means they are a bargain
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 13, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
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Opponents of renewable energy like to focus the intermittent and therefore unreliable nature of sources like wind and solar. Siemens has addressed this issue by developing advanced hydrogen storage technology to capture excess energy for later use.
http://tinyurl.com/cwuncdd
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Mar 13, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
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I'm with you Philo..
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Mar 13, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
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So Naysayers, educate yourselves before you knee jerk with negativity.
For example the comment was made about solar roads that they should use PV cells not LED lights.
Well if they had taken 30 more seconds to investigate rather than opine unwittingly they would have found the LED lights in the artists rendition are for signage and lane markers not electrical generation. The PV system is there if you look.
Easy duz it there Philo... I am far from a naysayer re solar power. But I do try to look at things in terms of practicality. For example I think it is silly to cover hundreds and thousands of acres of desert with solar panels located hundreds of miles from where the power is needed when the more urban areas have huge areas of rooftops we are not using yet.
I also do not think it is a knee jerk negative reaction to question the solar road idea. Its one of those ideas which looks nice on paper. But roads in cities, where the majority of power is consumed, are usually covered with these things called cars and trucks which make shade. In rural areas where there is less traffic, roads cover a very tiny fraction of the surface.
The solar energy application which interests me for large scale power generation is not solar PV panels. Rather, using mirrors to focus sunlight to superheat liquid sodium to spin turbines. Kind of like a nuclear reactor with the dangerous part almost 93 million miles away.
And FWIW the pic you posted shows no PVs, only a layer of LEDs.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 13, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
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Yes Ksolem, they are in fact constructing a large scale molten salt (sodium) tower outside Tonopah Nevada right now. Look it up-its called Crescent Dunes. The only problem is that it has the usual government loan guarantees and successive layers of newly minted corporations filtering the money through a consortium of chinese and Spanish entities doing the construction. You would think it could be wholly american constructed project.It is slated for startup late this year or early next. It will be interesting to see if it is a boom or boondoggle.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 13, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
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^^^^So, green jobs for ferrin companies, eh? US companies would never be allowed to bid on jobs like this overseas. Typical.
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Alebion
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 13, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
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conventional roads are already made mostly of petrochemicals and ground up rock climbs.
Excellent.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 13, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
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And FWIW the pic you posted shows no PVs, only a layer of LEDs. And again I say take a closer look at the info and not just a glance at a picture. The information is there if you but look for it.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Mar 13, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
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And again I say take a closer look at the info and not just a glance at a picture.
You posted a flawed picture with no link. And you opened the thread with an insulting remark stating that anyone who questions your great wisdom is a knuckle dragging troglodyte. I then try to explain my support for intelligent use of solar energy (not in roadways) which you ignore.
This conversation is pointless.
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