Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2006 - 10:51am PT
|
That's pretty bold talk for a stuffed animal there, wootles.
|
|
wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2006 - 11:03am PT
|
Yes well, I am full of beans you know.
|
|
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2006 - 11:12am PT
|
And that remindes me of a little ditty that every child should know:
Beans beans the musical fruit
The more you eat the more you toot
The more you toot the beter you feel
So eat your beans at every meal!
But ALAS, I hear that too much tooting can lead to that heart-breaking and dreaded disease..
A$$ Tendonitis!!!
|
|
ladd
Trad climber
land of fruits, nuts and flakes
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2006 - 12:27pm PT
|
Thanks JL for forwarding BD's on going analysis. How about that - "ropes don't just break" - NICE.
I learned and have taught climbers to uncoil and inspect while flaking the rope(s) prior to tying in and getting on with the climbing stuff. Do I always observe climbers doing this when they are out at the crags - sure don't. A thorough inspection of the entire rope(s) is plain mandatory - just do it. The slide of hand along the rope, while inspecting, admiring and reminescing about past climbs with the ole pal works well for feeling through to the core strands. This has often times brought up suspect areas of the rope, helps avoid a kinked up handle, and also stacks the rope properly for the sharp end to feed from the top of the pile.
I'm expecting the results of this whole managery will coil up inconclusively. I like the might as well go climbing part of the write up best - just check them ropes first.
cheers
|
|
Ain't no flatlander
climber
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2006 - 12:52pm PT
|
"Also, to those who wonder why only BD is investigating rather than some independent government panel, the answer is simple. Climbing is an unregulated activity."
Who said anything about a govenrment panel or regulation? Gear failures and climbing accidents are not uncommon. In the UK, the BMC investigates. In Germany and Austria, the DAV investigates. In Italy, the CAI investigates. In North America, it's totally haphazard but you can count on the AAC and CAC doing nothing. If someone is hurt, perhaps the local rescue team will try to find out what happened. If nobody is seriously hurt, then the company that might get sued is supposed to do all the leg work, pay all the bills, and tell us the "whole" story. In many cases, we, the climbing public, never hear what happened because of out-of-court settlements with no-disclosure clauses. There isn't a good way to report accidents or gear failures except posting on web sites. ANAM is a poor substitute that misses much, too slow, and often biased. None of the magazines do anything about safety. There isn't even good sharing of information internationally such as reporting accidents or translating technical papers. Yet American climbers are happy with their ignorance. Weird.
|
|
Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2006 - 01:26pm PT
|
Thanks to BD for doing this. I thought this was a total hoax at first.
|
|
stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2006 - 02:38pm PT
|
One of the reasons that it's BD doing this is that they have the capability to do it, and do it well. Other than perhaps Petzl and the UIAA, there is probably no one in or out of the country that has the experienced staff and equipment to perform this kind of analysis. I'd be very surprised if the BMC has devoted anywhere near the amount of money to QA staff and equipment that BD has.
And, as a friend of Kolin's, I can say with certainty that he would not let business concerns get in the way of doing what he perceives as his duty as a QA engineer.
|
|
Ken Zemach
Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
|
|
|
Jun 16, 2006 - 08:12pm PT
|
There are several experts in the US that could handle such an analysis. For instance, there are several professors at Georgia Tech who specialize in ropes / cords / manufacturing / and failure analysis of such. However, I agree with the poster above who asked who would pay for this?
Off hand, I would expect an INITIAL analysis, which might not even get you an answer but instead suggestions for further testing, to cost somewhere in the range of $15-20k if you go to a "non-partisan expert." (This number drummed up from years of doing failure analyses on other issues).
I find it refreshing to a good degree that the climbing community, in this case a manufacturer, comes together to try to solve the issue, with people donating considerable time and resources, and I applaud all involved. 'Cause just about the only other way an outside expert is going to be involved is when a lawsuit is slapped on someone's desk, and a lawyer can foot the bill for the testing in hopes of a large claim or settlement. Again, kudos to all involved in their cooperative search for an answer instead of a search for compensation.
|
|
johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
|
|
|
Jun 21, 2006 - 10:49am PT
|
Could the Black Diamond QA engineer provide us with just the facts of the case:
Manufacturer of the rope
Name of rope
size of rope (actual and advertised)
static or dynamic
Manufacturer of Quick Draw used
Name of quick draw
Manufacturer of each biner
Name of each biner
description of each biner
Manufacturer of hanger
Name of hanger
type of hanger
description of hanger
type of bolt
description of bolt
Manufacturer of Belay devise used
type of belay device used
Description of belay device used
description of Harness used by climber
Description of Harness used by belayer
|
|
wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
|
|
|
Jun 21, 2006 - 11:16am PT
|
Why?
Other than the question of the rope being static or dynamic, which has already been established, nothing else matters. The bottom line, all the answers we need, will be found at the ends of the broken fliaments of the rope.
|
|
DavisGunkie
Trad climber
Davis, CA
|
|
|
Jun 21, 2006 - 12:57pm PT
|
as far as i remember, it was a beal rope which is made by BD. So its realy a case of a manufactuer standing by its product and seeing what went wrong
|
|
wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
|
|
|
Jun 21, 2006 - 05:22pm PT
|
I think you got that backwards. It's a BD rope made by Beal or perhaps PMI, which is more or less the same since Beal makes the core for PMI.
|
|
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
|
Jun 21, 2006 - 05:52pm PT
|
That's pretty bold talk for a stuffed animal there, Wootles.
Next thing you know my cat will be posting about this rope, I think she told me she peed on it once.
|
|
landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
|
|
|
Jun 21, 2006 - 06:09pm PT
|
It's a rope, they never break. Just make sure you finish your fig 8.rg
|
|
labrat
Trad climber
Nevada
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2006 - 10:20pm PT
|
Largo. Any chance of another update? I was told that people from the rope maker and BD visited the gym in Sacramento and repeatedly climbed and jumped from the route. Did they reach any conclusions?
|
|
hanxyz
Boulder climber
|
|
|
Jul 18, 2006 - 12:49pm PT
|
message bump.
original thread:
http://supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=196553
Author: labrat
Trad climber
From: Nevada
Largo. Any chance of another update? I was told that people from the rope maker and BD visited the gym in Sacramento and repeatedly climbed and jumped from the route. Did they reach any conclusions?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!