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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Jan 25, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
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http://fsgeodata.fs.fed.us/rastergateway/data/37118/fstopo/371511830_Tungsten_Hills_FSTopo.pdf
This map shows that the entire area is in Inyo NF and no BLM land comes in to play. The slightly shaded areas seem to be inholdings/leases of land inside the forest (DWP Land, other privately held land). Be careful if you assume that being outside of those areas means you won't get tooled for camping, it doesn't seem like most folks actually know where the borders are, enforcement folks included.
http://www.rockiesog.com/fedlands_start.kmz <-- a link to a google earth layer with fairly low res federal land boundaries (it includes the area around the Milks) The purple boxes again seem to be privately held land within the NF.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
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Glad you trust the government to make good decisions Frank....What do I know.
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Jan 25, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
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It isn't a matter of trust, it is about knowing the reality of it. The decision maker is bound by policy and within the flexibility that policy allows, their decisions are guided by opinions. Expert opinions tend to be given more weight than non-expert opinions.
Most of the policies are compromises that don't result in ideal outcomes for any side of the debate. It seems less than ideal, but I dare you to come up with something better for all sides.
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The Wedge
Boulder climber
Santa Rosa & Bishop, CA
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Jan 25, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
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Franky " I disagree that a toilet at the birthday parking would have a significant negative impact on views. It is a parking lot with cars in it, a toilet really wouldn't have any effect.
I don't think the idea that a toilet would be horrible in the birthday boulders is necessarily the majority opinion. It really seems the most logical place to build, where it will minimize new impacts and get the most use and be easiest to service, etc."
Franky,,
I disagree with your statement about the shitter have a neg. impact at the B-day boulders location. There ARE times(not many but enough) when I and many other have been out there and no one has parked at the Bday lot. Its nice to look to the west and not see any man made structures. A 10-12 foot tall shitter up on a hill would be visually impacting. Also with a majority of the winds blowing from west to east, the smell would encompass the entire bouldering area. I believe the best location is #1 down below the Peabody.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 25, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
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I'm not sure how a shitter anywhere would affect the views at the Buttermilks
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Jan 25, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
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I'm not saying people are wrong about that location being bad. It is entirely possible that the stink of it will overwhelm climbers at the birthday boulder (I love that boulder by the way). It is possible folks will consider the toilet an eyesore. In my opinion it won't be a big deal, but i may be wrong. More important than my opinion, the experts have decided that the pros outweigh the cons at the birthday parking location. The risk of the toilet sucking is worth the reward of not having poop and tp everywhere to me.
It seems the only way to avoid the birthday toilet and have a toilet is to have only one at the barrow pit. There are definitely significant cons to that, but maybe that is the best answer?
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t-bone
climber
Bishop
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Jan 25, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
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It's really a shame other areas weren't scoped out. I guess the FS doesn't have the money/ interest to initiate environmental studies for such a small project.
Now we just have build/ no build and I think a shitter at the Bithday lot sucks too. It's one of the best viewpoints in the area.
I'd much prefer one across from the lower parking or by the cattleguard.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 25, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
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All the stink about the location reminds me of Tea Baggers in the gubermint who complain about government spending while reaping the benefits of a government paycheck.
Not everyone can sh#t on command at Schatt's. People are not going to drive back to town to sh#t, besides, we don't want to encourage excess fuel consumption. There WILL be sh#t at the Buttmilks, whether it is on the ground or in the facility.
If the deal gets nixed because people complain about the location, I hope those who complain would be willing to help clean up the resulting mess. We the people have the opportunity to use tax dollars to reduce some of the very real environmental impacts of our actions... and we complain because of the very minor scenic impacts (<1% of the view shed)?
Seems odd considering the multiple roads, ATV's, etc. It isn't like the shitter will block the view of Basin or Tom.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 25, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
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Only in America would somebody bitch about a Sh!tter in a parking lot!
Besides, the sh!tter would be an improvement compared to some vehicles there.
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t-bone
climber
Bishop
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Jan 25, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
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only in America does it take years of documents, reports, environmental and cultural studies, multiple engineers, and a shitload of money to install a shitter on the side of an existing road
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Jan 25, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
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I'm not aware of any public shitters at any of the sectors in Fontainebleau, which blows the doors off of the Buttmilks in terms of the number of visitors. One trip to a popular European crag and you will see how lucky we are to have agencies that deal with these shitty issues.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jan 25, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
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It may not smell at all once you are 50 feet from the toilet. You can put charcoal filters on the vent stacks but they have to be replaced. If It is windy the smell would be dispersed quickly and you probably would not notice it.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 25, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
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Charcoal vent-stack filters are VERY effective and last a pretty long time. They are also really cheap to build if you know what you're doing (~$50 and an hour of labor). Even buying off the shelf they aren't that spendy.
B-day parking is the most logical spot IMO. Viewshed arguments ring hollow for that spot. I'd also say you'll get significantly higher compliance (i.e. people shitting in the pit instead of the desert) at that location vs. the borrow pit or other roadside areas.
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