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TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 27, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323539804578260132111473150.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

Might want to get a bit in touch with reality here.
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
I'm not going to get into my personal life because it is tacky to do so, but I will do say that I fight gender discrimination in my own day to day life, every single day of the month and every single day of the year.

Also, why are women being allowed in military combat if everyone is griping so much about inadequate female performance in SAR and firefighter and police teams?

I call bullshit and males griping about it are purely sexist because seeing a woman in a police uniform is somehow "not right" or "just doesn't fit" in their opinion.

The fact that women get discouraged and seem apathetic in physical-based tasks in the mentioned jobs may not be because of female physical limitations, but more the fault of men and how they operate and the bar they set (the men determine what makes a job well done, etc.) If men are the ones that set the bar on a job task in favor of THEM succeeding (in other words creating the standard) its no wonder that women are set to fail. I read an article which captures this sentiment well. They were examining why there are less female students in the sciences, engineering, and mathematics. Well, research suggested it was not so much because of some sort of mumbo jumbo brain wiring differences in the genders, but because of how these academic institutions are structured: to favor male inclinations towards competition and analytic oriented methods of thinking and very individual based striving for success, which may alienate many prospective female students from entering those fields and succeeding in them. Kind of like growing squid or something along those lines, if you want one of the genders to succeed, you have to adjust the Ph of the water. Adjusting Ph's in societal language means revising norms and standards.



What a crock o' sh#t that is PTC


99% of those women looked happy, if not thrilled, about being photographed, and I'm assuming being the object of men's desire. Or they're faking it to make money. Either way, it's their choice and they benefit one way or another.

Not all women have hangups about their bodies and sex.

you would be surprised how much of women's sexuality emerges as a result of being imposed on them. Start off with the amount of attention young women start receiving (attention they receive whether they like it or not) once they mature into young women, all that attention is bound to impose sexuality on them because when you receive that type of attention, sharp poignant sexual attention directed at you, you can't help but start feeling sexy. Later when that young woman starts becoming sexually active, this experience inevitably arises. The man says "you like it, don't you?" and the woman (maybe has no choice) but to submissively say "yes" because culturally its the norm to "want" sex and to "enjoy" sex. But once again cultural norms gets into the sticky land of "male standards." This is not female sexuality, its male sexuality that women then adopt and start to find pleasure in.

heres a testament from my own experiences: When I was younger, like 16 or 17 and 18 years, I had no clue on what sex is and sexuality and would start getting unwanted attention from passerby's and the sh#t (men) when I would just walk around in public. I really didn't know how to make sense of any of it.


women will not get anywhere if they are afraid to hold controversial and unpopular viewpoints. The older women in this thread getting all catty with me because I have a youthful fine piece of ass goes nowhere.





Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
Seriously, Juanista?
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
Also, I would be very curious to have someone do more studies on female performance in physically demanding jobs such as SAR and firefighting.

I would wonder the following

1. Would all-women teams perform stronger and better?

2. Do the interaction between the sexes get in the way from optimal female physical performance on the job?

3. Do men maybe overcompensate in physical aggressiveness and strength and prowess on the job simply by a heightened surge of testosterone when they have females on their team?

4. Do women emotionally and psychologically begin to feel alienated because sexually-driven bullying tactics begin to form such as men banding together. (I've observed that more than on one occasion in the outdoors on outdoor trips =men feeling more comfortable banding together when there is a 2 to 1 male/female ratio.) Alienation=psychological distress=physical and mental performance suffers and you appear weaker.

There are many variables.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:03pm PT
Pretty soon women are going to blame us men
for them having to get Breast enlargements.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
Well, I know that I like sex myself.

But about those SAR women with the wrong attitude...

How did they get hired, if I may ask? Who was the person making the interview/acceptance decision and how did they base the decision? Now if it was some horny guy and he looked over women with the can-do attitude in favor of the ...can-do "cans"....!


Here's me doing trailwork at my local crag. Oversized work gloves - made for man's size. I was so happy to find that Home Depot actually had woman's sized ones. I had NEVER seen them before at any of the hardware stores over the years. Mow I have gloves that fit my hands!
Credit: happiegrrrl


That one sort of looks like a girl playing at a guys job... or getting the easy work. Spooling up cable's not that hard. Somewhere I have another picture of me at trailwork, cranking a griphoist to pull along a stone that is about 5 foot by 3 foot by 1 foot think. Cranking for the pull isn't hard, just takes a long time, when the rock has to be moved 30 feet or more.

There are things I CAN'T do in trailwork that the guys can. I cannot lift 50 lbs and more stones by hand and carry them distances, as an example. Most the guys can do that all day(unless bad back). But i don not think there is anyone who has seen me at trailwork saying I am not pulling my weight, right alongside the guy team members.

But...I do have a bad attidue sometimes, like when the ta;lus slope was unstable and they wouldn't believe me when I said if we didn't change what we were doing we'd have an avalanche, and so I refused to continue working in that area it would go.

A rock mason professional came the next week and saw it all and agreed with me. My bad attitude enjoyed a pretty big smirk that day.
John M

climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
I call bullshit and males griping about it are purely sexist because seeing a woman in a police uniform is somehow "not right" or "just doesn't fit" in their opinion.

I doubt Werner is bullshitting. Though He may be trolling.. LOL

I grew up in a farming town. There were girls who grew up on the farm and knew how to get into the middle of any heavy lifting, and then there were plenty of women who didn't know the first thing. Its something that can be taught but not everyone is willing. Its the same with guys. When I worked heavy construction putting in water mains I trained the new guy. There were guys who just didn't have a clue how to get into the middle of heavy lifting, and they were a pain to train, but if they were willing, you usually could. Then there were guys who had been doing it all their lives and it was a simple matter to fit them in and teach them. Its a matter of mindset and training.

Then there were guys that were just plain useless. We got rid of them quick. The pay was good and we didn't have to suffer fools.

The main thing I see is that there are just more guys who have learned how to help out in a heavy lifting situation. As a guy you are expected to help when something needs to be carried, so you learn young. Women aren't expected to help in that situation, so many don't. I do understand that That is just a generalization and there are plenty of exceptions to that. In both directions. I have back problems and don't do as much of my firewood work as I use to. I hire a local women to do a lot of it. She worked trail crew in the park for 17 years. She is a hottie too. :-) Not that that has anything to do with why I hire her. Just pointing out that you don't have to look like that Russian woman to do heavy lifting. Though that is a funny poster.

Credit: John M
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
Happiegrrl. I'm not an ANTI. I think everyone who can, can. Some can't.
They find other avenues to contribute. Or not.
You KNOW how it goes....
John M

climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
2. Do the interaction between the sexes get in the way from optimal female physical performance on the job?

I remember the first woman I made cry on the job. LOL.. She got in my way when I was moving something heavy and didn't move quick enough. I chewed her out good, just like I did any guy. She broke out crying and I didn't hardly know what to do. I was treating her just like I treated the guys. We both had a bit to learn about working together. She had to learn about the heat of moment and I had to learn that women carry their emotions closer to the surface. She turned out to be one of my better employees.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
A feminist calling other women catty. That is name calling, it means absolutely nothing except that it's sexist which makes you a hypocrite. Then when you complain that men only are interested in the physical and how wrong that is, yadda, yadda and than have the stupidity to claim that the older women her are being jealous about your fine young arse...

Young lady, with that line of logic your an idiot.

Plus seriously, over here on the internet... You really think we care about your arse? Honey, seriously get off the net. You are out of your league BIG TIME.
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
That one sort of looks like a girl playing at a guys job... or getting the easy work. Spooling up cable's not that hard. Somewhere I have another picture of me at trailwork, cranking a griphoist to pull along a stone that is about 5 foot by 3 foot by 1 foot think. Cranking for the pull isn't hard, just takes a long time, when the rock has to be moved 30 feet or more.

I am not sure where those claims came from with SAR teams and shitty female physical performance because physical limitations is definitely not holding women back. Mainly because I KNOW personally I can kick more than a fair share of males asses out there.

Maybe the performance discrepancy comes from an imbalance in technical knowledge. Males are really gung-ho about developing methods in executing an operation (usually requiring rapid decision making skills and strict protocols) and females are put into place to parrot these male devised methods.


I actually have a funny story to go along with this whole theme:

So I was helping my grandmother on the farm in Lithuania this past summer. She had a shipment of 2 tons of briquettes, they were dumped in her front yard. They came in a package of about 6 each, with each package weighing 20 pounds or something. Anyways, we had some family friends come over and help because we had to stash some away into storage using a wheelbarrow and transfer the rest upstairs in the house by hand. There were 3 young men very capable and fit (all in their early 20's) and me. That was the team. I quickly pounced on the task and whipped their asses into shape. At first, I would grab 2 of the packages and carry it upstairs, then quickly moved onto grabbing 3 packages at once. The young men followed suit and started carrying 3 packages minimum. One of the guys noticed this and started grabbing 4 packages. LOL We went at it like this for like 30 minutes and they were not faster at it than me and not more capable. I was kicking their sorry little asses cus they were afraid to show any weakness with a girl in the group and I was far from getting tired. We were moving at very high speed pace, which I had set. VERY amusing experience to have observed.

Fish Finder

Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:37pm PT



The softness of a woman can never be replaced by a man

as

the hardness of a man can never be replaced by a woman
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
So were they being paid per hour? Any smart person would do absolutely minimum to make the job last longer, get paid more. Or... Were they going to be put on task on something else once it was done. Another reason to lag in order to avoid more work.

If I want a job done quickly. I offer a flat fee that is handed out when it's done. I never pay per hour and... I can't tell you how many times I lagged on a task so my mother wouldn't find me a new one. I discovered the pleasures of doing homework all day avoiding the pleasures of cleaning bathrooms, etc.

We are all human with human faults.

I am sure you can work hard. I know tons of girls that can make the menfolk sweat but sometimes what you see isn't what is.

part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:43pm PT

The softness of a woman can never be replaced by a man

as

the hardness of a man can never be replaced by a woman



this is a very sexist notion.

From Butlers "Gender Trouble"


She begins her critique of identity and gender by challenging her readers' assumptions about the distinction often made between sex and gender. (In this distinction, sex is biological while gender is culturally constructed.) In the first place, Butler argues, this distinction introduces a split into the supposedly unified subject of feminism, and in the second place, the distinction proves false. Sexed bodies cannot signify without gender, and the apparent existence of sex prior to discourse and cultural imposition is merely an effect of the functioning of gender. That is, both sex and gender are constructed.

She asks why we assume that material things (such as the body) are not subject to processes of social construction themselves.

John M

climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
The softness of a woman can never be replaced by a man

as

the hardness of a man can never be replaced by a woman

Every man has a feminine side and every woman has a masculine side. Learning how to express it and experience it is part of becoming a complete person.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
I am sure you can work hard. I know tons of girls that can make the menfolk sweat but sometimes what you see isn't what is.
Indeed.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
Text books say a whole lot of things. There was a ton of proof the Nazis had to support the claim of being a superior race, the physical characteristics to look for in those that are inferior, etc. You can spin doctor almost any fact and twist it.

Yes Commie, I am still irked that you had the audacity to claim the older gals were jealous of you because of you ass. Seriously a very ignorant and sexist thing to say. You really should apologize for that or... I am not going to stop poking holes in your statements. Plus, it's so darn easy.

You shot yourself down with that and now... You just sound like a pompous child who thinks she has the world of knowledge from reading one book.

People like Susan paved the road for the rest of us and being so disrespectful of that because of your silly little ass. I no longer see how any of your arguments can hold any water after that.
Fish Finder

Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
Jan 27, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
"this is a very sexist notion."



The softness of a woman can never be replaced by a man

as

the hardness of a man can never be replaced by a woman



I meant this in every sense , not just the physical.


Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
Some sh#t makes you strong. Some sh#t makes you dumb.
Once you're dumb & strong, you're ready for BigWall climbing.
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