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Messages 1 - 809 of total 809 in this topic
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:22am PT
Tony, next time you go bouldering, try using a pad. I was semi offended that you refused
mine when offered.
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:32am PT
Can someone give me the full story of what happened and a time line. I have only bits and pieces. Thanks
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:35am PT
From the perspective of 9,000 miles:

Who gives a sh#t that they're gone.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:36am PT
I am glad to contribute in even so small a way to the sprawling site-wide whinefest going on right now. Waaaahhh!!

It's better than another gun thread?
NoTokeRedKneck

climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:39am PT
"i have a little scientific experiment for him. google "teen porn", and then dial 9-1-1."

Sheriffs have been known to cause wrongful death, psychopaths, maniacs
inmates etc. may uncorrectly categorize or stereotype.

By CA. law teen p0rn under the age of 18 may not always be unlawful.
Secondly when parents attempted to defend themselves using a emancipation
defense, the emancipation was not ruled void, however liability was still
bound to the parents of the emancipated minor due to failure to file a release form.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:55am PT
There's a general dynamic at play here - female, non serious or non climbers offended that male and mostly dedicated climbers are having fun trading photos of titties.

Now, underage or teen models should be out of bounds for various reasons - I honestly didn't even think about their age until some female poster pointed it out - but the hostility to the gist of the thread was obvious and coming from disgruntled women before that.

The climbing world hasn't always had this issue - climbing used to be a solid boys club, and women knew their place in it. Then climbing mags began to be scolded by "feminists" if they ever printed a photo of a woman that had any sexual quality to it. The mags caved to the vocal minority. I remember a letter raking Yvon Chouinard over the coals for using a photo of a topless woman bouldering, shot from behind in a pair of his stand up shorts, barely the side of one breast showing.

Pick up a surf, skate, snowboard, motorcycle mag and see the difference. There's more tits and ass in one surf mag than all issues of climbing combined.

It's almost like lots of climbing women are threatened by physically beautiful women, especially those with extra weight in their upper body who don't climb.

Nice effort to break out of the rut, Anastasia and crew. Prudes prevail again.




atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:56am PT
I think bes1st just admitted probable cause exists to search his computer.

Tony, sweet speculation brah!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:57am PT
when I read the thread title I thought "no way is he talking about the boob thread."

I was pleasantly disappointed.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:59am PT
Pick up a surf, skate, snowboard, motorcycle mag and see the difference. There's more tits and ass in one surf mag than all issues of climbing combined

aint that the truth!

i went to the beach yestarday and it looked just like summer. tit's and roxy ass all around.

the boobs thread got the desperate climbers excited!

i agree with you tony.

i hope when a person contributes to this site it becomes usefull for the rest of this climbers community :)

TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
It's all serious until someone puts an eye out.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
Kevin, point well taken but for me there are other issues. I know this is a forum for climbers rather than a climbing forum but the OT content and the ensuing drama has gone, at least for me, over the top.
Maybe it's the angst that becomes more prevalent in the depths of winter, maybe it's just what the forum has become. The fact remains that 80% of the threads currently on ST can be found anywhere on the internet. Those threads, based on the posts they elicit, dominate the content of ST.
As i aproach my 70th birthday, the sands running ever faster thru the hourglass, i have decided to dedicate this year to some climbing goals. A climbing forum can serve like a support group and this does if you are willing to dig. Unfortunately, i find myself getting sucked into the muck and morass of the bulk of discussion here.
I need to take a sabbatical while i get on with my goals. I'll peek in to see if i can find a nugget or two.
Fish Finder

Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:23pm PT



I really feel for Chris Mac.

I bet he never has kids after having to deal with all the babies here.

Can you imagine how many emails he must have to decipher?



So and So called me names, so and so is a jerk, so and so posted mean images.

For F*#k Sake
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
Hey Jim, hope you're doing well.

The Climbing World that I live in does not seem to have a problem with nudity. But I guess that's because the Climbers that appear in StoneNudes are mostly in their 20's a much different generation than posts here. . .Think about it. . .df
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
Haha Dean true, but I think it also has to do with a positive mind set and healthy self-esteem for your friends.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
Bullwinkle is right. We should all use some common sense when it involves women's and men's feelings:





kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
Who gives a fuk what you think? If this is a serious matter you need to get out more.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Wasn't it the Femenists
that burned their bras?

:)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 23, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
I don't for a second believe that any well formed male actually has an issue with the female form in any way shape or form, nude of otherwise. I do believe that people enjoy masquerading as puritanical guardians of The Faith. But I wish they would really go into their own thoughts and beliefs instead of bashing ours. There is plenty of room for all opinions here, and the most august, righteous and bombastic are often the most entertaining. And this is all entertainment, of that we may be sure. There's nothing remotely "serious" about a thread on knockers, no matter how you spin it.

JL
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
maybe you never had the pleasure of mixed company in climbing, warbler, but it pre-dates even your term in california. if i have to drop some names, try mr. and mrs. john mendenhall and mr. and mrs. chuck wilts. oh, yea, more boys than girls in this sport, but one of the things that attracted me was the happy mixed company of it. that all follows good manners out the window.

don't kid yourself that this is a guy thing. we already have a "tittay" thread that gets revived occasionally and then properly dies for lack of interest. this thread was started by a young woman with an agenda, and that has made all the difference.

maybe you missed the genesis of it, JL, being in the hospital. it did all begin with something quite serious, nothing remote about that, the sandy hook shootings. or, should i say, alleged shootings, according to the suggestion of tom cochrane, who brought up the little matter of mind control, patsies, and staged government terrorism, matters i know you'd probably rather not get into. it got to be quite a free-for-all for a few days over christmastime, and then anastasia decided to play the tits card to draw everyone away from the conspiracy theorizing and tom cochrane bashing. worked a charm. for the record, i'm not the least prudish about any of it, although i think it got pretty extreme for a climber's forum. i just ignored it and delivered an occasional snide remark on other threads. but i can't ignore losing lolli.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
Credit: Hardman Knott
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
Tony, are you seriously jumping on the latest conspiracy theory that the Sandy Hook shootings were a gov't black opps in order to steal a perceived right to be an as#@&%e with a gun ?

What exactly do you define as obscene with this thread ?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
Credit: survival
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:25pm PT



The White Knight is here, sacrificing manhood for acceptance from women his mother never gave him!









these are jokes...
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
you sure like to put words in other people's mouths, jim brennan, and predeliver your arguments to them.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
anastasia should have nuked that thread. it's a measure of her immaturity, and perhaps her ego, that she couldn't recognize the monster she had created.
Dude, I think your cheese has slid off yer cracker
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Could someone please post a pic of this boob monster you speak of?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Answer the question Tony. Do you believe the killings at Sandy Hook were a government plot that would lead to enabling gun registration ?

You brought it up in defense of Tom Cochrane.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
Time for a thread hijacking.
Credit: kennyt
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#279646
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
I enjoy the irony that as the tits got smaller, the more upset peoples got.

I thought the Boob thread was quite cutting-edge and thought provoking.

Grok on this for a minute:

If underage tities are so horribly wrong (and I'm not sure what as posted was underage), then does that make topless beaches in Europe where parents walk around with their kids the devil's playground?

No, at the end of the day, it is the human body, male or female.

If we as westerners saw more nudity, we would be desensitized to it and it wouldn't be the issue it is.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
...oh, if you don't like the female upper body, why open the thread?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
seriously

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:58pm PT

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 23, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
this thread was started by a young woman with an agenda

Tony,

I think CMac acted properly in removing the thread, given his potential liability. I've seen many people sentenced to be remanded to the custody of the Federal Bureau of Prisons for child pornography, and those were almost always my most depressing days in court. Also, Super Topo is in the business of selling climbing guides, and can legitimately regulate content that might drive potential customers away because of unnecessary offense.


Nonetheless, I feel a need to stand up for my friend Anastasia. While I'm sure she's amused to be called a young woman, her only "agenda" was, I'm quite sure, having some fun (and poking some fun rather gently)at the expense of her male friends.

Anastasia is a climber, wife, mother, and also the holder and expounder of political beliefs that are often the exact opposite of mine. I find her contributions here valuable. I would also note that she, too, took a rather extended sabbatical from ST and I, for one, am glad she chose to return.

While I'm sorry that Lolli has decided to leave (temporarily, I hope), I just can't see the happenings on any climbers' forum as serious. Also, I don't think we'd have a worthwhile forum if we all had to tiptoe on eggshells for fear of offending someone. Again, this is a private forum, and CMac has the right to regulate it in any way he sees fit. I, for one, greatly appreciate how he's given us as wide a latitude as possible to express ourselves.

John
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
I think Anastasia is a wonderful person. Shes a hell of a lot more mature, intelligent and nicer than most of us.

jus sayin...






Ama Dablam! Woot! Nice one Bruce.

I'll see your Ama Dablam and raise you an underage Tibetian girls shaking the horse bells on a Mt Everest trip photo.



Speaking of the little children...if ya want to raise a lil climber ya need to start early they say.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
Size doesn't always equal age.
My Lovely Wife is a good example of this.
I like em small. Less DROOP!

:)
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
SERIOUSLY!!!

photo not found
Missing photo ID#285957
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:16pm PT
Nice one moosie
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:19pm PT





Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
cmac deleted the boobs thread? i thought t*r scuttled it by dumping a zillion pics of a nuclear explosion on it, making the load-in very time consuming. then, as punishment, so the gossip here goes, cmac disabled her account. correct me if i'm wrong.

i will admit that i'm only theorizing that lolli left because of all this.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
"i will admit that i'm only theorizing that lolli left because of all this."


You'd be playing the percentages.

We had a problem like this at one of the bars I worked.

Women wouldn't walk in, (or wouldn't stay very long or wouldn't come back again if they did walk in) as long as the joint was dominated by loud, rude, dirt-workers who showed up early and stayed all night ( couldn't go home because that's where their wives were ). Too rude or too stupid to keep their hurtful language to themselves.

We fixed that by getting rid of the things they liked, like Budweiser Draft ( replaced with Guiness ), the pool table ( replaced with a piano and dance floor ) and the Lottery ( replaced by nothing ).

The positive results were immediate. The loud dirt-workers found another sausage-bar and couples and groups of women and educated guys started coming in. It became a cool place to hang and a fun place to work.

I don't know how you would work that here, though.
John M

climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
CMac deleted the thread. The photo bombs didn't destroy the thread, they just made it difficult to get through.

Anastasia has a more European mindset. As do others here. Something you don't seem to understand.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
how about the other women, John?

a number of them have posted their "displeasure' with the boob thread

maybe they didn't have a European mindset, but they kept quiet and let it go on
and only when it was deleted did they speak out

and women were not the only ones who felt a boob thread did not belong here, there were some males who spoke out also

t*r decided to not be quiet about how she felt, she had had enough


this is a public internet web site, about climbers and climbing
presumably people of all ages and genders from around the world visit this site

why is it "oK" to support the righteousness of the boob thread anyway?
John M

climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
Norton.. I appreciate that some people didn't like the thread. Male or female. As I told Sullly, I didn't know what to tell her about the thread. I can see why she doesn't like it and I can see why some people are not offended. What I was referring to was Tony's assumption that since Anastasia didn't delete the thread this must mean she had ego involved or was immature. I find that characterization kind of shallow and narrow minded.

I liked the thread, but knew that it would become gross eventually, which is why I deleted the pictures that I posted.

I wish that there was a mature way to enjoy the beauty of the female body without all of the inherent background garbage that goes along with it, but there doesn't seem to be. At least not on an open forum.
selfish man

Gym climber
Austin, TX
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
Lewis Black's comments seem relevant to the ST boobs thread and its fate:



rwedgee

Ice climber
canyon country,CA
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
I saw the first 40 or so posts on the boob thread & thought it was a refreshing break from the gun threads. For sure there are some here that will take it to taste bordering level, as almost any thread. If you don't like the thread, or any thread, then don't read it. I don't read the political threads but I don't mind if others do. Should I bomb the dog or gun threads ?? If you think there's child porn on it call the cops or whatever you need to do. Glad she's gone, doesn't climb...bye bye.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jan 23, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
Settle down, or I'm gonna have to come over there and knock some sense into you!


photo not found
Missing photo ID#231932




More:

selfish man, that was f'nunny.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 23, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
The folks who think there were photos of underage women on that thread must be in their late 30's at least. Anyone visit a college campus lately? The freshmen look like infants, like children. Moreover, Law Enforcement goes after child pornography with a righteous vengence. All the photos on the Boobs thread were conjured through a simple Google image search for "boobs", "tits", or "breasts."

The most surprising thing about this whole debacle is the extraordinary level of wildly uninformed commentary. I spent five years at The Evergreen State College, the birthplace of radical post-feminism, the Riotgrrl movement, Queercore music, etc. Many of the most established thinkers in family studies and woman's studies teach there -- Stephanie Coontz, Susan Strassman, and so on. My ex-wife, who many of you know, met me just a few weeks after moving out of one of Olympia's most fundamentalist lesbian households. So I know a bit about some of this stuff. And when I read the commentary here, I cringe. It has all the insight and subtlety and understanding and nuance of a cafeteria food fight.

The strident pronouncements on the boobs thread about it being "porn"; how it served this purpose, or that -- or not; how Cmac was potentially criminally liable, on and on and on. Please. I guess there are a lot of people here with very little drama in their lives for whom this provides something to get worked up over. When I wake up in the morning, I wonder what I can do that day to make my 20-year-old autistic son's life better, or how I'm gonna pay for my daughter's braces. The boobs thread was a lightweight and comical diversion. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a cultural ostrich who needs to go read the current issue of Cosmo for some grounding in current American cultural norms. There will always be the t*r's of the world -- and apparently her apologists as well -- people who will take offense from out of left field at God knows what. From what I can tell this is just the latest in a long and storied history of meltdowns worthy of any teenager. I was shocked to learn she's apparently in her 30's?!

In any event, at least try to inform yourselves before you squander any more of you time on this. Folks are couching their remarks within the context of broad cultural assumptions that do not bear up to even the most casual scrutiny.

drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jan 23, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
word up bvb.

Back to the original" serious matter"...
Why you deny pad Tony?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 23, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
There's a general dynamic at play here - female, non serious or non climbers offended that male and mostly dedicated climbers are having fun trading photos of titties.

...except that the majority of posting Supertopians who were against the thread were men.

climbing used to be a solid boys club, and women knew their place in it.
You mean like Bonnie Prudden and Jan Conn knew their place?

It's almost like lots of climbing women are threatened by physically beautiful women, especially those with extra weight in their upper body who don't climb.
Again, even though more men posted against that thread, you are focused on "fat women." Not the brightest star in the galaxy you, I have to think....
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 23, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
What I find funny, or maybe it's me,
that Boobs are as controversial as Politics, Religion, guns,
and the Wings of Steel.
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City
Jan 23, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
i find it rather comical too. us americans are a bunch of prudes.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Jan 23, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
Love your last comment, Largo :D

Donini, please don't sign off. (please, please, please and I rarely say please.) I love your wit and comments on ST. Plus I learn much about the outdoor world and climbing from them.

Finally, this particular Thread Title.....a serious matter.....maybe that's the matter.
Not so serious if people had real lives to live and contend with. Just sayin'.

Much ado about nada, imho. lynne
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 23, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
All I'm gonna say is you can't blame me for any of this ...

I had nothing to do with it.


I will say though, G-d made boobs very beautiful. I like them. They are meant to be liked.

King Salomon had a serious boob problem. Recall he had over 800 women, wives, girlfriends, concubines, and what have you. That's a lot of boobs.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
It's lame to try to blame Anastasia.

Also, that pictures showing unclothed breasts are offensive to women is just one opinion, and I'm sure that they are offensive to some women (and some men), plenty of women (and men) do not share that opinion.

In fact many feminists believe that it is discriminatory for the unclothed female nipple to be labeled obscene while men (who also have nipples) are allowed to be topless in public. What's odd here is that it is OK for a women's breast to be exposed so long as the nipple is covered, but the nipples of men and women (pre-pregnancy) are almost identical!

I'm not sorry that Chris Mac deleted the thread. It had outlived its usefulness, but I'm not sorry he allowed it to be up either.

I see it as a sign of progress that the thread offended relatively few people and was allowed to be up for as long as it was.

Also, bravo to t*r for taking a stand for what she believed in. Lot's of people have nuked threads they didn't agree with in the past and were not banned. I don't know why t*r was.

Edit: This is a day for the record books. I'm in agreement with Klimmer on something!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:18pm PT


photo not found
Missing photo ID#286012
...


Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
obscene?

no.

those kids laying on the floor, that is obscene.

(stole that from Hustler, remember the guys brains hanging out with the "this is obscene" quote?)

Anastasia is way cool, she was trying to lighten us up after a real bummer,

what is so wrong with that?

just use good taste when you post a boobs pic,






Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
Credit: Walleye
Censored by Walleye for the more easily offended
Censored by Walleye for the more easily offended
Credit: Walleye
EDIT: FYI Walleye is not related to the Editor and Publisher of Hustler Magazine (unfortunately)
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
Burlesque???!!!1111



DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:45pm PT


DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:46pm PT


DMT
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
This thread is gonna cause more confusion than a mouse in a burlesque show!



Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered...
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
Sigh.
Dingus, Dingus, Dingus.
T*R Isn't going to like you anymore especially
after posting those exploited young Ladies dancing
suggestivly on the Bar..

;-)

Edit: Uh Oh. I got the Suggestive,69th post.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 23, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
I'm quite secure in my relationship with t*r, pre and post banning.

:-)

DMT

ps. I've been in that bar and seen the lovely Molly dance, on that very same bar as in the vid. Woot woot!

Oh... my.... god.....
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
but the images with burlesque and strutting connotation should be kept on porn sites.

I think its up to people to not be as#@&%es and scare away people with sensitives, even though their sensitivities are born from unhealthy viewpoints on sexuality, that is just my opinion and I am not justified to make people feel uncomfortable, even if I think I am right.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
Take a sabbatical, Donini, but don't stay away. I like your posts. Maybe because I tend to agree with them.
treez

Trad climber
99827
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
That's funny, BVB!

It took me until way too late in life to understand that as soon as she mentions having gone to or wanting to go to Evergreen, I should RUN LIKE HELL!

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
I can't believe all these comments on that thread, objectifying people:


Are you talking beef or biscuits?

Any opportunity to post a pic of..

ooooooooooooh good post

Yeah, that's what we need here on the Taco stand. XX in a thong!

I used to have to avert my eyes,when XX - would walk by
shirtless....

This thread is like porn. Keep it coming!



All comments from the fairer sex on the first page of the most ripped climber thread! http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/330933/The-most-ripped-climber Granted the context is different, women deal with a lot more sexism and objectification than men do. But it's funny how for some people there's a double standard.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
i heard klimmer's gotten very interested in younger women. and god approves!
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 23, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
Of course "God" approves, if there is a God.

There is a reason why men find women sexually attractive.

Genesis 9:7 "Now be fruitful and multiply, and repopulate the earth."

Song of Solomon 7:3 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle."

Song of Solomon 7:7-8 "Your stature is like a palm tree, and your breasts are like its clusters. I say I will climb the palm tree and lay hold of its fruit. Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine, and the scent of your breath like apples."
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 23, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
Riley said:
"And nobody close to TR is doing her any favors for enabling this behaviour. As a guy who has worked as a nurse with large groups of woman for 20 years I can promise you this kind of silliness and drama is not tolerated. You pull weird social and human resources stuff/bullshit like this you are gone fast - I've seen it a 100 times. These folks do not know how to play or work with others. TR is not employable at the present time - i would bet my man boobs on it!"

I don't know how you would know that from a few posts on an internet forum Riley.


...And Dingus, if you really cared for t*r you would take the video of T*r's dancing nearly naked down.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 23, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
I'll do better'n that and take some live video here in a coupla weeks, howzat?

DMT

ps. hopefully.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Jan 23, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
This thread need some boobs and climbing!

photo not found
Missing photo ID#280307
I'm Rick James, Bitch

Social climber
Up in it and down on it
Jan 23, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
Riley says:
But the funniest thing of all is considering all the absolutely ridiculous drama TR has posted and been involved with over the years this has got to be the most ridiculous and hypocritical

Cause TR has posted her own boob pics!!! She would get drunk and send me pics of her boobs. And because I was involved in some drama with her, only on the phone thank goodness, I was in contact with many other people who also had had boob shots sent to them or been involved in more intimate and incredibly f*#ked up and dramatic ways - ask them? maybe they will post up!

BULLSH#T without pics. Post 'em up!
CIRJB!!!!!69
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Jan 23, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
Riley says:
But the funniest thing of all is considering all the absolutely ridiculous drama TR has posted and been involved with over the years this has got to be the most ridiculous and hypocritical

Cause TR has posted her own boob pics!!! She would get drunk and send me pics of her boobs. And because I was involved in some drama with her, only on the phone thank goodness, I was in contact with many other people who also had had boob shots sent to them or been involved in more intimate and incredibly f*#ked up and dramatic ways - ask them? maybe they will post up!

You just cannot make this sh#t up! Too funny. I am willing to bet money that no photos are posted, but just hearing about this cracks me up.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Jan 23, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
Just in case I was not clear regarding the OP and the title of this thread, there was nothing "serious" about the original boob thread. You f*#king morons must live under rocks to think for a second that there was any child porn in that thread. Were some of the women "smaller" and younger looking than others? Yes. But to equate that with the exploitation of a minor and child porn is ludicrous. What is "serious" here is the need for you to get a life!

Here are some more boobs...

Something to make everyone smile.
Something to make everyone smile.
Credit: ncrockclimber
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
If there are any +1's, There's one for sure.
Gracias, ncrockclimber.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 23, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Wow, GC and I agree on something. Amazing.

When you read The Song of Solomon and other passages of the Good Book, you realize sex is a wonderful thing in marriage. G-d is not against sex at all in a marriage relationship. All parts of the human body are wonderful and meant for pleasure.

http://www.joebeam.com/sexandbible.htm


G-d made man with very strong desires toward woman. And likewise woman toward man.





Genesis 1 (KJV)
[18] And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

...

[22] And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
[23] And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
[24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
[25] And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

...


Genesis 3 (KJV)
[16] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.



I realize the feminists are gonna have a stroke over Genesis 3:16. Ok, so rebuke that spirit of Lilith from you and get over it. It's the natural order of things since the fall. You can't change it. Ain't gonna happen. And when you do fight against the natural order, marriages and families are destroyed.

Lilith, Lady Flying in Darkness
The most notorious demon of Jewish tradition becomes a feminist hero.
By Rabbi Jill Hammer
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Issues/Magic_and_the_Supernatural/Practices_and_Beliefs/Supernatural_Beings/Lilith.shtml




Tony,

What's the rule? Half your age plus 7? Sounds good.

Abraham after losing Sara married young. King David married young. And yes King Solomon had many younger wives or concubines.

Man needs a mate that wants to keep up. No couch potatoes. Sex is an action sport. Lots of sex in marriage keeps the temple in condition and keeps one another healthy. Very true. Read the science studies.

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
This is a really strange place.

People post pictures of boobs, leading to some debate about appropriateness. Thread is deleted.

In any kind of sane world, that would be the end of it.

But this is Supertopo, and a disagreement about the appropriateness of some pictures of naked people has led Tony Bird to start this thread because he believes it was a distraction from the real issue of the day: that the kid who murdered the schoolchildren was a mind-controlled patsy in an event of "staged government terrorism."

And now it has brought Klimmer back out of retirement with his statement that while women might not like Genesis 3:16 (a section of his religious book), they'd better get over their dislike because "It's the natural order of things since the fall. You can't change it. Ain't gonna happen. And when you do fight against the natural order, marriages and families are destroyed." So what exactly is Genesis 3:16? Well I looked it up, an it seems to say that god wants women to suffer and be slaves to men.

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

Yup it's more than just boobs. It's Supertopo. Home of climbers and crazies.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
Heck, I don't mind being objectified. I'm from Vegas.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#192602

Do you Like my B@@BS?

:)
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
Just in case I was not clear regarding the OP and the title of this thread, there was nothing "serious" about the original boob thread. You f*#king morons must live under rocks to think for a second that there was any child porn in that thread. Were some of the women "smaller" and younger looking than others? Yes. But to equate that with the exploitation of a minor and child porn is ludicrous. What is "serious" here is the need for you to get a life!

Yep. Exactly how I feel although I attempted to be somewhat less visceral. +1,000.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
Ghost,

You assume the natural order is about slavery. It's not. It's the way we are made and what we truly desire from the opposite sex in marriage.

Read the full article on Sex and the Bible. The New Covenant (NT) further clarifies it. It's a beautiful thing and what both men and women truly want. Woman do have a desire toward their husbands. They do want to be loved and cared for, like Christ loves the Church. Men love to love their wife, and they do cleave to them, love to care for them and protect them. The woman is a foundation that a man needs. Without that foundation many men feel lost. It's a wonderful balance. It's not slavery at all.

http://www.joebeam.com/sexandbible.htm
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
Yup. We're gonna die fer sure.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
It's not slavery at all

So then the part in Genesis 3:16 that says "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you,” was just a misprint? What they meant to say was "...and he shall drool over you," but the dude doing the typesetting was careless and somehow it came out "...and he shall rule over you?"

That seems pretty clear to me. "He shall rule over you" is pretty clearly "Wife is a slave."

If you want to live in a world where men "rule over" their wives, that's great. But it's not the world that most people want to live in.
NoTokeRedKneck

climber
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
That seems pretty clear to me. "He shall rule over you" is pretty clearly "Wife is a slave."

Following the book (i don't always) can enslave persons and can
lead to ill logic ie::"lay down your life for your brother" etc.

What may constitute an emergency upon them may not constitute a
emergency upon myself or others. In rescue we were 1'st taught to
never cause or create another emergency or rescue.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
Ghost+1



and you'd think by now they'd figure out how to make a more shapely silicon bag. WTF?
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Jan 23, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:21am PT
Ghost,

I already told you, you can't understand the OT without the NT. What you think is enslavement isn't. It's a battle of the sexes for sure, but there is a way out of this dilemma ...

Also the Bible was written in Hebrew not English. The Hebrew is rich with deep meaning. Best to compare many translations and look at the original Hebrew word or words.

This is a very good article that shows a way out of the battle ...

A true Christian marriage knows this and knows the NT ideal for marriage. It's not enslavement.



http://www.quodlibet.net/articles/parker-women.shtml

"Third, the description in this passage of the future relationship between Adam and Eve is about ‘alienation and conflict’ (Woolvard & Zuck, c. 1983–c. 1985). ‘The marriage ordinance continues, but is frustrated by the battle of the sexes.’ (Whitlock & Sproul, 1997) The whole message of the New Testament is one of reconciliation and unity, including those of the marriage relationship. To understand the consequences of Adam and Eve’s sin, in respect to their relationship with each other, as a command of God, would mean that this dimension of human relationships would be excluded from the gospel of Jesus Christ. As Richards (1997) points out, ‘Male dominance in the family is a consequence of sin. Why perpetuate it in the Christian home?’ Perry Yoder (1975) makes a similar point:

... while [Genesis] chapter 3 serves as an explanation for the less than ideal state of affairs that may now exist, it does not condone or pardon it. On the contrary, concessions or inadequate realizations of God’s will in terms of creation are to be challenged. (pp. 10–11 cited in Swartley 1983, p. 157)
If we persist in perpetuating these distorted types of relationships which are the result of the Fall, it is a clear message that we want to avoid allowing the gospel to teach us the proper Christian relationship between men and women.

Fourth, even if it is insisted by some that all of these are curses imposed by God, God immediately institutes a plan to reverse these curses. Apart from the implicit promises of a Saviour in verse 15, Abram is promised that all the nations of the earth will be blessed (the opposite of a curse!) through him (12:3).

We see the ultimate fulfilment and reversal of these consequence with the arrival of Christ. In Romans 5:21, Paul celebrates God’s wonderful kindness which rules instead of sin and the death it brought. As a result, sin’s power is broken (Rom. 6:1ff.) and the consequences of sin that we suffer begin to be undermined until they are completely eradicated at the Second Coming of Christ.

Whereas Genesis speaks of the husband ruling the wife, Paul commands mutual submission as the principle of all relationships in the Christian community, including marriage: ‘...you will submit to one another out of reverence for Christ’ (Eph. 5:21, NLT). Some argue that, in the following verses, Paul explicitly requires women to submit to their husbands and that the man is to rule her. However, it is essential to read the subsequent verses within the framework of the mutual submission of verse 21. In this verse, Paul makes a principle explicit using the term ‘mutual submission’. If we go on and make the specific applications that Paul makes deny this explicit principle, then we are twisting the Scripture to suit our own agendas. Whatever Paul has advised in the following verses must be seen as the application of the principle of mutual submission in the context of Paul’s time.

The contrast between the old and the new is clearly articulated by Redmacher (1997):

The word desire [in Genesis 3:16] can also mean "an attempt to usurp or control" as in [Genesis] 4:7. We can paraphrase the last two lines of this verse this way: "You will now have a tendency to dominate your husband, and he will have the tendency to act as a tyrant over you." The battle of the sexes has begun. Each strives for control and neither lives in the best interest of the other (see Phil. 2:3, 4). The antidote is in the restoration of mutual respect and dignity through Jesus Christ (see Eph. 5:21–33).
The motivation for this mutual respect is reverence for Christ (Eph. 5:21). Christ makes all the difference in relationships, including those between male and female, because ‘[t]here is no longer ... male or female. For you are all Christians—you are one in Christ Jesus.’ (Gal. 3:28, nlt) The fact that Paul makes reverence for Christ the centre of relationships, resulting in mutual submission, means the evil of the husband ruling the wife is reversed. Evans (1983) summarises the centrality of Christ in restoring our broken relationships: ‘It is only ‘in Christ’ that the broken relationship between man and woman, as that between God and Man, can fully and permanently be restored’ (p. 21).

The model for Christian relationships is most clearly and extensively articulated in Ephesians 5–6. We need to listen carefully to these passages of Scripture, for they help us to keep the consequences of Genesis in perspective. Fraser & Fraser (1975) summarise the difference that Jesus’ message makes to the relationship between husband and wife:

What was lost in the fall, expressed in Genesis 3:16 as the wife’s loss of equality in a functional subordination to her husband, Jesus intends to restore. The curse is rescinded by grace, and she is placed on the same level as her husband that she might be joint-heir with him in the responsibilities and grace of life (1 Peter 3:7).... The husband and wife are to be one in love and mutual subjection to each other. It would be difficult to find any norm for marriage as permanently threatening to all traditional marriage structures as that! (p. 18 cited in Swartley 1983, p. 265)
Christ came to reverse the consequences of the Fall. This means that we must stop using Genesis 3:16 to legitimate male dominance and tyranny over women, even if this is legitimised by saying that it is done in love. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free! Women should not allow men to place them back under the yoke that Christ has come to remove (Galatians 5:1).

The heart of the matter

Surely it has to be asked: Why is it that men (in particular) are so keen to argue that women should be submissive? If God has identified the tendency to rule as part of the consequences of sin, then we surely should ask ourselves whether, at the heart of the traditional interpretations of the Genesis story is a lust for power and domination. Power is seductive and easy to legitimate with religious arguments. But if Christ is our model for all of life, then we have no greater reason for an attitude of service and submission by both people in a marriage. It is in this way that marriages can witness to the radical change that has come with the arrival of Jesus Christ."
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:24am PT
Thanks, Ghost, now you've set him off.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:26am PT
+5
Jennie!!!!
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:40am PT
Klimmer, you can't understand the OT or the NT without understanding that it was conceived of and written quite some time ago in a world incredibly different culturally from our own. You can take those words from the Bible and try to defend them as something sacrosanct by twisting them to your own ideal in this culture and this time but it doesn't change their meaning.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:41am PT
Ah, I see Klimmer has arrived with his standard-issue 5,000 word cut-n-pastes that we all scroll right through without so much as a glance. Just a matter of time before Delusionsmeller chimes in.
MisterE

Social climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:44am PT
delusionsmeller

POW! The American Legend scores a direct hit.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:46am PT
It's about time you were SERIOUS, Locker!!!
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:46am PT
For some reason I think that this video is an appropriate commentary for this "serious matter."

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:48am PT
I was serious once. I met this guy named Roebuck and we started a business. Great catalog, we sold a lot of schwag.

Ba-Dump!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:49am PT


"It's about time you were SERIOUS, Locker!!!"...

Something you NEVER knew about me...














































I am a serious man, when it comes to serious matters...

MisterE

Social climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:50am PT
Wow, what a revelation! Klimmer and GraniteClimber agree on something!

I'm so shocked.


Yawn.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:52am PT
I am a serious man, when it comes to serious matters...


"And that would be...?"
Credit: Reilly
WyoRockMan

Trad climber
Flank of the Bighorns
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:52am PT
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:53am PT
The word of G-d does indeed cut to the marrow like a two edged sword. Some can take it and some can't, but it will never go away.

The Heavens and the Earth will pass away but his word is forever, eternal.

The original intent was to show sex in marriage, good sex, great sex is of G-d. Also G-d does build into men and women a strong desire for the other sex. That's of G-d also. The word of G-d calls that " natural affection."
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:54am PT


Something is SERIOUSLY wrong...

I am SERIOUS...

This is a serious matter...




Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:58am PT
" I'm a serious man when it comes to serious matters"

photo not found
Missing photo ID#256202
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:19am PT
klimmer, you're misquoting the bible to prove your private point, a common abuse in the history of "scripture". every time i've ever heard it, it was "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

what i get from this is: 1) big ego trip for jesus; 2) wait a minute--heaven's gonna pass away? you mean, we're not gonna go to heaven and live forever? maybe not such good deal after all; 3) it's just another biblical contradiction. norton's gonna be all over it.

of course, as you say, grammar and translation are important. for example, i've been told it's really, "thou shalt not murder," not "thou shalt not kill". opens quite a door, doesn't it? martin luther has assured us that, if a soldier dies on the battlefield, it is the will of god.

another thing, klimmer, very important at this stage in your career. if your wife and you have split up, you're just gonna have to remain celibate for the rest of your life, or at least until, and if, she straightens out and comes back to you. god was very serious about that "until-death-do-us-part" business. you're gonna havta carry the torch, maybe not for the old lady as much as for the integrity of your program. remember this terrible pronouncement:

The word of G-d does indeed cut to the marrow like a two edged sword. Some can take it and some can't, but it will never go away.

let me warn you, you're gonna have all kindsa ministers and/or priests figuring out loopholes so's you can try again with someone prettier, younger, and readily adaptible to an old f*#k with a house and a job. these guys are dodging for your dimes. even though they're wearing the cloth of the lord, they're doing the work of the devil. a vow's a vow, brother. get used to cold showers.

and what's with this "G-d" stuff? and in the same paragraph as "sex". doesn't win you any brownie points. god could well be pissed at you for leaving the vowel out. the hebrews did that too, and lookit what happened to them--given one of the worst patches of territory in the mideast and told it was "the promised land", kicked the heck outa egypt, which really had the choice real estate, and they didn't even get a desert full of oil, the bonus for faith in allah. and whatever happened to yahweh and elohim? could it be that god has an identity crisis? right around that corner, i'll bet you find a process theologian.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:22am PT
How come things are so anatomically correct around here?
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:36am PT
To be anatomically incorrect serves no one.

That's pretty serious.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:44am PT


^^^

Seriously???...

Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:19am PT


Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
klimmer, you're misquoting the bible to prove your private point, a common abuse in the history of "scripture". every time i've ever heard it, it was "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

what i get from this is: 1) big ego trip for jesus; 2) wait a minute--heaven's gonna pass away? you mean, we're not gonna go to heaven and live forever? maybe not such good deal after all; 3) it's just another biblical contradiction. norton's gonna be all over it.

of course, as you say, grammar and translation are important. for example, i've been told it's really, "thou shalt not murder," not "thou shalt not kill". opens quite a door, doesn't it? martin luther has assured us that, if a soldier dies on the battlefield, it is the will of god.

another thing, klimmer, very important at this stage in your career. if your wife and you have split up, you're just gonna have to remain celibate for the rest of your life, or at least until, and if, she straightens out and comes back to you. god was very serious about that "until-death-do-us-part" business. you're gonna havta carry the torch, maybe not for the old lady as much as for the integrity of your program. remember this terrible pronouncement:

The word of G-d does indeed cut to the marrow like a two edged sword. Some can take it and some can't, but it will never go away.

let me warn you, you're gonna have all kindsa ministers and/or priests figuring out loopholes so's you can try again with someone prettier, younger, and readily adaptible to an old f*#k with a house and a job. these guys are dodging for your dimes. even though they're wearing the cloth of the lord, they're doing the work of the devil. a vow's a vow, brother. get used to cold showers.

and what's with this "G-d" stuff? and in the same paragraph as "sex". doesn't win you any brownie points. god could well be pissed at you for leaving the vowel out. the hebrews did that too, and lookit what happened to them--given one of the worst patches of territory in the mideast and told it was "the promised land", kicked the heck outa egypt, which really had the choice real estate, and they didn't even get a desert full of oil, the bonus for faith in allah. and whatever happened to yahweh and elohim? could it be that god has an identity crisis? right around that corner, i'll bet you find a process theologian.


Tony, Tony, Tony ...


You have lots of questions and misstatements. May I advise you to talk with a Messianic Judaic Rabbi and attend a Messianic Synagogue as I have been. I have learned leaps and bounds and things have been carefully clarified concerning things I was in error over. You have to know The Old Covenant (OT) and The New Covenant (NT) really, really well. Most Christians in mainstream Christendom do not. They don't have the Hebrew and Judaic understanding. The Bible both OT and NT is Jewish. The Prophets are Jewish. Our Messiah is Jewish. The Disciples and the Messianic Rabbis are Jewish. Our faith is Jewish. I now understand that. My spiritual eyes are much more open.

I was only paraphrasing, not quoting. There are at least 10 different Heavens according to Hebraic scripture and Holy writings. The atmosphere "Heaven" above our heads is in one. Outer-space is another. The Heavens where Hashem Adonai Elohim resides is separated into multiple levels. Context Tony. The Universe as we know it, whether you take the scientific view "The Big Rip" or whether you listen to Adonai, it will be destroyed. But with Adonai it will be recreated new. We have that promise.


another thing, klimmer, very important at this stage in your career. if your wife and you have split up, you're just gonna have to remain celibate for the rest of your life, or at least until, and if, she straightens out and comes back to you. god was very serious about that "until-death-do-us-part" business. you're gonna havta carry the torch, maybe not for the old lady as much as for the integrity of your program. remember this terrible pronouncement:

The word of G-d does indeed cut to the marrow like a two edged sword. Some can take it and some can't, but it will never go away.


I will have to revisit the divorce thread. I will have to clarify things better at the end there. I thought that was it too. Once married, you are married for life until death do you part. I understand better now. There is a "Pauline Privilege" that applies to believers. You are not to leave, separate permanently, put away, or divorce your spouse as a believer, as a Christian, or as a Messianic Jew or Gentile. Because marriage is for life. But what if your spouse leaves you? Read 1 Corinthians 7 really, really carefully. If you are a believer and your spouse leaves you, or divorces you, you are free to remarry, but only another believer. They broke the marriage covenant not you. Rabbi Shaul (Paul) was a married Rabbi and a member of the Sanhedrin (you have to be married to be a member of the Sanhedrin). When he came to know Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus The Christ, he lost all and he says so, including losing his wife who was more than likely a devout Jew, of Judaic faith. He clearly says in the NT that he is free to remarry another believer, a sister in the Lord if he chooses to. He chose to remain single and not to remarry. Everyone has different gifts. Some have the gift of singleness, some do not. I don't like being alone. I need a helpmate.

I'm not divorcing my wife. She wants to divorce me. When our finances are taken care of, I have to let her go as 1 Corinthians 7 says to do. I have to do all that I can do to save our marriage, but if she still wants to divorce, then I have to let her go. Read 1 Corinthians 7.

I'll answer more later ...
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
Hey Klimmer, the Bartlett character poses some interesting questions in this clip that have been gnawing at me for decades. Could you get back to me and clue me in? Thanks!

rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jan 24, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
Funny. Boobs are porn? Just try to tell someone that on a beach in France. And then call the gendarme and try to get every single guy arrested for accessing such porn.

People look at stuff they like; trees, wild animals, boobs, the bible. It's a fact of life.

Porn. That's a laugh. It's all porn. Dating a pretty girl is porn unless you're blind. Unless you have hands and then it's what, assault?

Dave
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 24, 2013 - 01:39pm PT


^^^

You can't be SERIOUS...

moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 24, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
You bet I am SERIOUS!!!

photo not found
Missing photo ID#286119
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 24, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
Fair Alert: I intend to begin posting more images I find online to balance out the boob ones in these threads.

FWIW, I am NOT against the female body. I saw every image in the Boobs thread, and though there were some images which I would consider art, the majority were the type one finds on those sites that give free images of pretty soft content which include links to get to more graphic stuff(porn). "Gateway" imagery, as it were.

I found some of the texty drooling a little creepy, and also thought that including images out of context to be creepy(the thread was CLEARLY about breasts as a sexual organ, and to post breast-feeding baby pictures in that context was - to me -creepy. I also found the "underage look" images also creepy.

When I saw them I said "No doubt the models are over 18, but it seems to me that the images are styled to provide an impression of underage women as being sexually stimulating." That was what was, to me, creepy.

Note here, that I have indicated these are my opinions - I have as much right to voice my opinion as anyone else here, and at least I am not suggesting that others who don't share my opinion are fat old creepy men who couldn't get with any of those women even if they blinded them with a gold Rolex and then kidnapped them and drove away in a Porshe.

And what is making my blood boil is the really wretched remarks that those who felt the thread was out of place here must be prudes or ugly jealous women. It REALLY pisses me off that these take-down intimidation remarks are almost exclusively aimed at women DESPITE THE FACT that women have been a very minority voice in ths entire discussion. MISOGYNY. And that, in my opinion, is what is at the heart of quite a few of the images posted in the Boobs thread, despite how loudly some proclaim they love women and celebrate the female body.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
Terri, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the misogyny aspect, although I agree a lot of the discourse has been unnecessarily unsporting. What chills me the most about boobgate is the profound lack of perspective and humor -- from all quarters. My perspective on the whole thing is grounded and informed by the women I was freinds with, had relationships with, was married too, climbed with, commiserated with, and so on.

Pay special attention to the "history" section; the women who laid the groundwork for this were my good freinds, and I married one of them. And I swear to God Terri, they would roll their eyes at this whole little brouhaha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_wave_feminism#Criticisms
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 24, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
BVB, I haven't noticed anything you posted that registered on my Pisses Me Off radar. And I am certainly not considering all the Boob Thread proponents to be in one category. I wasn't even really against the boob thread concept, though I knew very clearly how it would develop and end.

But let it be known - I learned from my last images, that they need to be a bit more sexually suggestive to go toe to toe, or Basket to Boob, more aptly, with some of the booby shots.
WBraun

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
happiegrrrl-- "I am NOT against the female body."

Almost impossible to do anyways, since you're a female .....

:-)
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:04pm PT


Happie, you're on fire!!!...


LOL!!!...




EDITED:


I also agree with a lot of what you wrote...





Those last couple to a few shots were to me, questionable...

Even posted as such right before the bomb hit...



As soon as they were posted, I KNEW the thread was TOAST...



Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
Why do people miss a thread with just the boobs? There are pictures that reveal much more than boobs on the internetz. Videos too! Come on guys, do you want some links? That thread never had enough to look at while I whack my mole! So much trouble for so little content lost!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
This is a really great poem by one of my favorite Olympia poets. She's a 300 lb. Gay Jewish Queercore feminist. Oh, and she's an amputee who is missing one leg. Just thought I's throw that in! I searched all over for an mp3 of her reading this, because it's breathtaking. But here, you can read it. Anyone one with an interest in boobgate that extends beyond our apparent mutual loathing of one another should check out Nomy's sh#t at www.nomylamm.com.

A Girl’s Guide To Doing What You’re Told

By Nomy Lamm

Part 1.

you don’t get to decide what you are
what happens is, you are nothing, and then you pop out
and the doctor says “boy” or else “girl” and that’s that.
for the rest of your life you are trying to be “boy” or else “girl.”

if you are very lucky, you will be called a man
and you will feel like a man and everyone else will think
you are a man and you will do all the things that real
men are supposed to do and you will score lots of chicks.
then you will be on top of the world, the pinnacle of success,
a very powerful person. this is a catch-22 though,
because if you are called a man and you feel like a man
and everyone thinks you are a man and you do all the things
that real men are supposed to do, then chances are
you are a f*#king as#@&%e and i hate you.

if you are called a woman and you feel like a woman
and everyone else thinks of you as a woman and you do all the things
that real women are supposed to do, then you are probably miserable.

if, like most people, you lie somewhere in between or beyond,
then you are also probably miserable.
(tough life.)

Part 2.

The First Thing You Have to Do if You Want to Be a Woman Is Be Pretty.

this is simple.
To be pretty, all you need is to fulfill at least three of these requirements:
(a) a great tan; (b) long legs (two of them); (c) blonde; (d) perky tits;
(e) button nose; (f) smooth skin; (g) slender waist; (h) stare dumbly;
(i) you are a doll; (j) a shimmery lip gloss; (k) a can of diet coke;
(l) a short skirt; (m) be on television

okay, count your points.
don’t worry if you didn’t quite make it
being pretty is all in the mind.
do this exercise:
every night before you go to sleep,
look in the mirror and say
“please god, you can take away all my friends and family,
make me into a moron,
send me to hell when i die, just please,
make me as beautiful as tori spelling.”
if you don’t want to look like tori spelling then too bad for you
because it doesn’t work any other way.
when you wake up you will be pretty.

Part 3.

your body is a whole entire beautiful magical universe
of its own, exactly right and perfect.
i know that this is not what you have been taught, but it is The Truth.
how could anything so incredible ever be denigrated,
scoffed at, invaded, discounted, spat on, violated, ridiculed?
your body is magic.

what you are thinking now is:
why was i told to look at charts, diagrams, scales
and teen magazines to tell me what is wrong with me?
why wasn’t i told to trust myself?
why did they make me feel like a horrifying ugly
pathetic puking loathsome monster,
if the truth is that i am magic?

as woman, you must learn to identify as an object.
you must learn to be objectified, made ugly and disgusting,
but not in a way that is powerful or frightening to them—
you will be made ugly in a putrid, rotting way.
your soul is the first to rot.
then your heart, then your mind, then your flesh…
whatever is left is the magical part that will live forever.
this is the part of you that is eternal.
your silicone implants.
matisse

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
I've wanted to post this for days now.

I didn't grow up in the USA and I'm not offended by nudity.
Maybe I missed the offending photos, I wasn't breathlessly reloading the thread every 25 seconds and I missed the t*r stuff at the end
The boobgate makes me profoundly depressed.

Depressed because images of women in modern north american society are so distorted that most people don't know what real tits look like anymore. Any photo that doesn't have at least a C cup is assumed to be coming from a prepubescent girl. Now that is really creepy.

Be that as it may, it also makes me depressed because although there is clearly diversity of opinion from both men and women about how they found the images, the deletion of the thread has unleashed the most amazing torrent of misogynist bullsh#t. Any women who dares to disagree with you guys is vilified and heaped with derogatory adjectives.

You crusty old farts should stop. your. fvcking. whinging. long. enough. to. take. a. good. hard. look. in. the. fvcking. mirror. and. ask. yourself. why. the. women. don't. want. to. play. with. you. anymore.

Your behavior now is way more offensive than photos could ever be.


Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
Fair Alert: I intend to begin posting more images I find online to balance out the boob ones in these threads.

Yup. That whole "Boobs" thread was a one-sided affair that was doomed from the start. And Terrie's not the only one to think that some balance is required. I was thinking of starting a "Dicks" thread as a sort of counterweight to the boobs thread (which was started by a woman). This would outrage some of the men, probably lead to argument, threats, thread-nukings, bannings, and possibly even some snickering.

But then, in a moment of enlightenment, I realized I didn't have to do that. That the _real_ solution had already been provided for us. A thread featuring photos guaranteed to be both sexy as hell, and yet completely gender-neutral. You can check out the thread here, or just scroll down (after checking to make sure that your boss is not in the room)...






Locker-style scroll-down in progress...













Keep going....














There. Now you can all be equally outraged.
There. Now you can all be equally outraged.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
You crusty old farts should stop. your. fvcking. whinging. long. enough. to. take. a. good. hard. look. in. the. fvcking. mirror. and. ask. yourself. why. the women. don't. want. to. play. with. you. anymore.

Mirror de Carnival.

DMT
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
Any women who dares to disagree with you guys is vilified and heaped with derogatory adjectives.

I'm not getting this either. What's wrong with people? Is it because it's winter and they can't climb? Angry, sexually frustrated men who don't know ho to find porn unless it's served up on their lap? If you want to look at this stuff, it's not hard to find.

How could anyone seriously believe that it was an appropriate thread on supertopo? Everytime I logged on and saw the thread was still active, I was surprised that it still hadn't been deleted yet.

I also don't understand why t*r was deleted. There may have been some history there, because I don't see why she would be deleted for nuking a thread like that.

Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
Actually, there is some history there. The act got old, so they shot her down. That's how it goes...
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:37pm PT


Corrrect me if I am mistaken (Sh!t I am totally sucked into this crap now... LOL!!! or fuking BORED or both...)...

But didn't she "Nuke" more than one thread???...

I recall there being at least, two...

Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
Nukes, random deletions & repostings, vast edits, etc. I expect it got tiresome...
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 24, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
Nukes, random deletions & repostings, vast edits, etc. I expect it got tiresome...

Somehow t*r never bothered me. I don't see how deleting stuff is offensive. This forum would probably be a better place if more of (including me) deleted more stuff that we thought better of.
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
The simple questions you should always ask yourself before hitting the 'post this reply' button are whether the post positively contributes to the debate/subject, and whether you'd say it to the faces of those participating. If you can't say "yes" to both questions, don't post at all.

That's why I hang my full name out there on most all sites I would post on.
It makes you think before you put it out there. Posters who are way hung up on anonymity and like to just let 'er rip on the forums have no real backfire for anything they say. Just a dopey observation..

Caylor
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
Agreed Hank. I generally attach little-to-zero weight to posts by people who choose to remain utterly nameless and faceless. They are just random strangers who I may as well be overhearing while I take a crap in a public lavatory.
matisse

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
some of us just don't want to have our climbing life mixed up with work. Personally I don't post anything that I don't want my name attached to, I just don't want it accessible via google to some random medical school applicant. it is really that simple.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
As usual, Anders, you hit the posting etiquette nail on the head. When I read some posts, I think that we actually post with less thought than we speak.

I must admit, though, I still can't get past the title of this thread. How could anything in a climbing forum be a serious matter?

John
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Oh Matisse, I know. Point is I know who you are, we have mutual freinds. I was referring to those REAL mysto types about who I know absolutely nothing, never post photos, you can't even tell where they climb.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
There's no doubt that some people - usually 'adolescent' males - indulge in behaviour on SuperTopo which they would never dare to in person around a campfire. Or, if they did, they'd immediately suffer the consequences. It gets tiresome, and seems to be increasing.

No wander I have no friends ;)

Can we just stop this embarrassing discussion? The Boob thread was a JOKE. I was surprised it ran that long.
How come some people get offended so easily? Don’t be so SERIOUS about yourselves!



STFUAGC!!!
matisse

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
Phew.
I was about to be wounded because I <3 the american legend.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
I was about to be wounded because I <3 the american legend.

But you ARE, in France, right ;)

Work on your anger. Not healthy!
matisse

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
^^^^. Not particularly angry. See if I speak out I am an angry woman.
if no one (i.e. women) called men on their sh#t they would just be full of it all the time.
John M

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
I was about to be wounded because I <3 the american legend.

As his pseudo imaginary press agent, I can assure you that the american legend loves you to.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
You crusty old farts should stop. your. fvcking. whinging. long. enough. to. take. a. good. hard. look. in. the. fvcking. mirror. and. ask. yourself. why. the. women. don't. want. to. play. with. you. anymore.

ouch. even I wouldn't have said that. 8]
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Jan 24, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
Oh Matisse, I know. Point is I know who you are, we have mutual freinds. I was referring to those REAL mysto types about who I know absolutely nothing, never post photos, you can't even tell where they climb.

That is EXACTLY what I meant, and to nobody specific. Just generally.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:40pm PT
Pick up a surf, skate, snowboard, motorcycle mag and see the difference. There's more tits and ass in one surf mag than all issues of climbing combined.

warbler gets the best quote from a thread award.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
Yes, Anders' etiquette lesson is perfect, theoretically. Unfortunately that's not how it goes on in real or virtual life. Everyone standing mouths off or douchebags it up on occasion.

Regret at saying or typing something stupid, or regret that being right wasn't worth hurting someone, Is a refreshing slap of humility.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
It's not really THAT serious.
Seriously!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
Matisse, we are full of it most of the time. It's for that reason the good counsel of women is appreciated.

froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 24, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
You crusty old farts should stop. your. fvcking. whinging. long. enough. to. take. a. good. hard. look. in. the. fvcking. mirror. and. ask. yourself. why. the. women. don't. want. to. play. with. you. anymore.

Misandry, clear misandry!

;-)
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
Phew.
I was about to be wounded because I <3 the american legend.

Why is it I sense I am being mocked here.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 24, 2013 - 07:01pm PT


<<< currently reaching for a piece of HOLSUM WHITE BREAD...
matisse

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
^^^^ not being mocked at all.
you have your fans
:)
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 24, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
not being mocked at all.
you have your fans

No kidding. And do you know who is his biggest fan? check this out...

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6073477
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 24, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
Ghost, you made my day!

LOL!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
and what's with this "G-d" stuff? and in the same paragraph as "sex". doesn't win you any brownie points. god could well be pissed at you for leaving the vowel out. the hebrews did that too, and lookit what happened to them--given one of the worst patches of territory in the mideast and told it was "the promised land", kicked the heck outa egypt, which really had the choice real estate, and they didn't even get a desert full of oil, the bonus for faith in allah. and whatever happened to yahweh and elohim? could it be that god has an identity crisis? right around that corner, i'll bet you find a process theologian.


More for Tony ...


The Hebrew's, The Jews, Israel, The Chosen People of G-d were chosen to bring the word of G-d to the World, and to bring The Messiah to the World, and thereby bless the whole World. They have been carrying the water for G-d for thousands of years. They have responsibilities that no other people on Earth have. Out of respect they don't say the personal name of G-d, or write it out, but only use the 4 Hebrew letters, or use the English pronunciation.

The Tetragrammatron:

"As Jews are forbidden to say or write the Tetragrammaton in full, when reading the Torah they use the term Adonai.[5] Christians do not have any prohibitions on vocalizing the Tetragrammaton; in most Christian translations of the Bible, "LORD" is used in place of the Tetragrammaton after the Hebrew Adonai, and is written with small capitals (or in all caps) to distinguish it from other words translated "Lord"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton


For teaching purposes only ...

The letters YHVH, "Yod-Hey-Vod-Hey."

In Hebrew it would be written and read right to left, but of course using the Hebrew letters:

Hey-Vod-Hey-Yod <--- HVHY <---


Why?

Out of respect for G-d. Also his commandments tell us not to take his name in vain. The Jews and Judaism are brilliant. Perhaps now you know why we type or right G-d, so as not to take his name in vain. Respect.

G-d has many, many names. But we are not to use his personal name out or respect. Like Judaic Jews, like Messianic Judaic Jews, Christians would be very wise to do the same.



There is something very special about The Promised Land. Not sure you'd understand. It's not about material wealth. Talk to a Messianic Judaic Rabbi. They'll let you know.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
Also his commandments

His? God is a guy? The creator of the Universe is an anthropomorphized human-type male, you know, with a penis and everything? Wow! Given the millions and millions of intelligent species that no doubt exist in a universe with 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 galaxies, each galaxy with 10,000,000,000,000 stars, well golly, aren't we male humans special! w00t w00t!

Still waiting for you to get back to me on Leviticus, Klimmer. Me and my brothers have this pile of big rocks gathered and we're ready to stone my father to death, but we wanted you to green light us first.

Thanks!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
Hey Klimmer, the Bartlett character poses some interesting questions in this clip that have been gnawing at me for decades. Could you get back to me and clue me in? Thanks!


Bvb,

I watched it. So much wrong there it's stupefying. Where to begin? The ignorance is over whelming.


The Torah, The Tenach, The Old Covenant, The Old Testament was given to separate and instruct a people of Adonai, Israel, The Jews. G-d wanted a special people who lived by a higher standard and to be unlike the World and to be absolutely separate from the World. It was harsh, but it was just.

Judaic Jews, Messianic Judaic Jews are responsible for 613 Commandments. No one is ever going to fulfill them all perfectly, except the one who did, Yeshua HaMashiach. Judaic and Messianic Judaic Jews are responsible to keep them, but where we fail, Yeshua HaMashaich for Messianic Judaic Jews makes up the difference.

Also there is a New Covenant and it was promised to come in the Old Covenant. It's here now. All believers under the saving sacrificial blood of the Lamb of G-d, Yeshua HaMashaich have the blood of Jesus covering and forgiving their sin.

We are no longer under the curse of The Law, the punishment of The Law. We are guilty and deserve death, but the Angel of Death passes over those who believe in Yeshua and have the blood of the Lamb of G-d covering their sins. We are forgiven, as we likewise forgive others. No stone throwing now required. It's about forgiveness. We won't suffer the second death. Just as the Angel of Death passed over the homes in Egypt that had the blood of the sacrificial lamb covering the door lentil saving their first born son from death (major foreshadow of better things to come). You can't earn it, buy it, it's a gift of G-d. You just have to ask him for it.

By the way, Gentile believers are responsible for and are to keep the Noahic Laws, and The Law of Moses, The 10 Commandments. They are not responsible for all 613 Commandments. That is only meant for The Jews, G-d's Chosen.

Like I told Tony, go and talk with a Messianic Judaic Rabbi and get learned, if you truly want to know and are not just pretending. I'm guessing you're just being sarcastic and you really don't want to know.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
Fascinating deconstruction, Klimmer. Did L. Ron Hubbard help with that, or did your companions from the Moon crash site write it for you? BTW, it made no sense whatsoever in the context of my question. But my mom is a biblical scholar, you know, Seminary and all that? She's sitting about ten feet from me right now so I'll ask her to interpret it for me.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
Is your mother a Messianic Judaic Rabbi?

I've had to relearn much regarding my faith.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
No, but I have several in-laws who are, and I was married by a Rabbi in a traditional fashion under a Chuppah. Still got the Yarmulke to prove it.

Just sayin', you big old incoherent Daube wannabe you.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
Bvb,

Good to hear. So talk to your Messianic Judaic in-laws. As you know most Judaic Jews haven't accepted Yeshua HaMashiach as The Messiah.

They will in time. G-d says he's going to save all of Israel and he will remove the partial covering from they're eyes to do so.

:-))
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 09:20pm PT
Klimmer,
You are quite self satisfied. All the Jews I know have stepped beyond dogma and just lend a hand communally through providing food, offering social services and not being a douchebag in service of the unknown.

You should try it some time, it's like being something you aspire to...
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
We are guilty and deserve Death?!?!
I don't recall ever asking to exist. Hence, Not guilty.
It's not my fault.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
Skully what are you thinking ?

You deserve to die because you don't tow the line.

The line has been set and described by those who don't have to go to school. They just have to seem intelligent by being uninformed through ignorance of other people. Academic rigour is for those smarty pants book learnin' smarty pants types.

God help the true believer types who feel funny in the face of logic. They obviously weren't truly believing or hitched up with the wrong horse.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
Klimer,
You are quite self satisfied. All the Jews I know have stepped beyond dogma and just lend a hand communally through providing food, offering social services and not being a douchebag in service of the unknown.

You should try it some time, it's like being something you aspire to...


"You are quite self satisfied."

Hardly. Not even. I've got a tonne ahead to learn, changes to make, and things to do. Coming into Messianic Judaism is all very new to me, but I'm learning fast. I've been a believer since the 70s. Much is being clarified for me in my faith and my walk with Adonai.

Yes, its called doing Mitzvah, which is all good and necessary. However, you can't work your way to heaven on good deeds and good works alone. No one is worthy enough.

Mitzvah without faith is dead. Those who do so are trying to work their way to Heaven. Can't be done. Yes, good works must flow out of faith and a love for G-d. But if you do mitzvah and don't have faith in G-d, in Yeshua HaMashiach, it gets you no where. Faith in Yeshua and good works from the well of faith and love for him are what's pleasing to G-d.

Be careful, I'm not saying good works aren't wonderful. They are. It's what the world needs more of. But it won't get you into Heaven by its-self. Faith in Yeshua HaMashiach's saving grace through his redemptive blood covering our sins, plus good works as a manifest of your faith gets you before G-d.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
Redeeming blood equals triumphant faith in death of something...

You have not said anything about being humble through service on this earth personally.

You have only stomped around, talking about how you know how it ends for those people who do the right thing instead of the righteous thing.

Party on, Klimmer !
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 24, 2013 - 09:59pm PT
klimmer, here's why i think you're on the wrong track. no decent god would be a divisive god. your god plays favorites, chooses its minions, turns its back on the rest of its creation. it also pussies around with erroneous "revelations" about the universe and our place in it. it also does not create a decent, wholesome culture. a good god would be smart enough to do that. nothing follows this god around except the compulsion to believe things which probably aren't very important, and a playing of favorites--and, i daresay, a taste for flattery--which strike me as being flat-out without class. and many moral wrongs are done in its name. i think you've been suckered, bro.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
You have not said anything about being humble through service on this earth personally.


Jim,

You don't know me. To say what I do personally in terms of good works, mitzvah, would be tooting my own horn and that wouldn't be humble. I won't tell you. It speaks for itself in silence.

Why do you seek the accolades of men? Why not do it because it is the right thing to do, and that it pleases G-d?


Matthew 6:3 (KJV)
"But when thou doest alms, let not thy
left hand know what thy right hand doeth:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_6:3



Tony,

Where did all your faith go? What happened? You were raised a Catholic. Why do you turn your back on it all? Wasn't there something worth keeping?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
Sounds good...

Except you have chosen to post condemnation and grace in proscribed measure to those you feel deserve it.

If you want to be some one who just does it for the good of all, why not shut up entirely and let nascent common sense rule ?

Oh yeah,excuse me, that darned evangelist stuff knows no comfort.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
Forgive me for breaking in …I’m impressed by some of the things you’re posting, Klimmer. I thought you were a salvation by faith alone kind of gentleman... apologies for not paying attention.

The Bible is pretty clear that there needs be a balanced relationship between our faith and its expression in good works.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
Jim,

G-d, Yeshua HaMashaich tells believers to go and tell the World "The Good News." It's not about condemnation. It's about forgiveness and life. Yet you say, "shut up."

Who should I listen to?

I think you know the answer.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
The boobs thread has morphed into The Trial.


God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"
Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on"
God say, "No." Abe say, "What ?"
God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin' you better run"


Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
The Bible is pretty clear that there needs be a balanced relationship between our faith and its expression in good works.

Jennie,

Yes it does.

;-))
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
you know, when you scroll through this crap randomly, it's really entertaining.


it's like Fellini-Topo.


thank you Chris Mac, thank you.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
In other words, just shut up and act responsibly, like everyone else who does good things but doesn't blow Gabriel's horn for him.

SHOCK ! ! ! some are athiest and nice towards others at the same time. I'm sure you will make that out to being something they didn't think they were...

Self satisfied as#@&%e !


Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
In other words, just shut up and act responsibly, like everyone else who does good things but doesn't blow Gabriel's horn for him.

SHOCK ! ! ! some are athiest and nice towards others at the same time. I'm sure you will make that out to being something they didn't think they were...

Self satisfied as#@&%e !


We are told by G-d to tell others the Good News. No way around that. It's what believers do. And we were told, the World will hate the message you tell them, because they hated me (Yeshua HaMashiach) first.

There are many wonderful people and atheists who don't believe. They do wonderful works and they don't let others know, and they are very humble in their manners. Awesome.

Should I not tell these wonderful people that the road is washed out ahead and that they will drive off the cliff and perish if they don't get the message to stop and turn around? What kind of a person or child of Adonai would I be if I didn't say something to help them?

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
Blah - f*#king blah as said by the profit Blah.

Your take on it all is anchored in the belief that you will wind up some where better than your personal laziness dictates. What a crime in the face of reality.

But don't let the great whatever equal logic, that would be be like accepting reason.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:08pm PT
I am waiting for this Thread
to turn into a serious Political Thread.
WBraun

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
better than your personal laziness dictates

How do you know he's lazy?

You don't know.

Why do you project your runaway mind onto others?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
Blame Tony.

He said this thread is all about "a serious matter."

It sure is.



Lol.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
Credit: bvb
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
Abridged version:

Someone must have been telling lies about Josef K., he knew he had done nothing wrong but, one morning, he was arrested.
...
the hands of one of the gentleman were laid on K.'s throat, while the other pushed the knife deep into his heart and twisted it there, twice. As his eyesight failed, K. saw the two gentlemen cheek by cheek, close in front of his face, watching the result. "Like a dog!" he said, it was as if the shame of it should outlive him.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:15pm PT
I don't know Werner...

I do know this certain individual likes to spurt forward in comforting tones of wash that may come up hard against Thought - action = Zero.

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
Should I not tell these wonderful people that the road is washed out ahead and that they will drive off the cliff and perish if they don't get the message to stop and turn around?

Well, that's an interesting question. Here's one way to think about it:

Sometime around twenty years ago a bridge on the highway between Vancouver and Squamish washed out in an intense rainstorm. It was pitch black, raining like the end of the world, and several cars drove right into the chasm and were carried down to the sea. Then one guy somehow saw the washout in time to stop. He parked his vehicle across the road, to let others know that the were in danger of driving off the cliff and perishing. He saved some lives. But, of course, some drivers who saw his pickup truck sideways in the road in front of them just swerved around it and... and perished.

So, a parable of sorts. Klimmer gets in our way to warn us of the doom ahead, thereby saving those who will listen from damnation.

But there's another side of this to be considered. What of the man who cries "Fire" in the crowded theater? What of the lunatic who blocks our path screaming of monsters that will devour us if we don't turn around?

What would you -- you, Glenn Klimmer -- say to a man who blocked your path into the school you teach at, screaming that there were dinosaurs inside who would rend you limb from limb if you did not acknowledge the supremacy of the Lizard Men from Alpha Centauri?

That man, the tormented soul who is blocking your path, and screaming of the Lizard People, or just screaming unintelligible obscenities, is just as sincere in his beliefs as you are, and yet you would have no problem calling him insane, right?

Do you understand what most of us see when you tell us we are damned if we don't acknowledge the supremacy of your god?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
Reason is a hard thing to face to the spiritual.

There's nothing wrong in couching ideals in spirituality. There is something wrong with not making sense accordingly.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:40pm PT
get serious right here, if you have the stamina

Jason Richards (familysurvivalcourse.com)

http://clickserv.sitescout.com/clk/da1cc179bbe75db0/3b63459c3ad92ce7/1-14539/0/www.vemba.com%2Fi%2F//cidentMTI1MTREMDhBMDFFQkRCNTJEMkY3NEE4NEY0NTFGMzIvLy8v
dirtbag

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
Indeed...this is very, very serious sheet.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
Oh f*#k,

Just be nice if you can afford it and have no expectation for reward going forward.

Stupid Americans...
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
It's not that serious, man. Seriously.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
Sure lots of name calling and bullying, and it's not coming from me.

Is it possible that you guys can ever debate or argue nicely? Ever?

In a official debate format you guys lose just by the shear amount of bullying you do.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
Geeze... I go on vacation and look at this!

As you can see I have not been banned. Instead we were in Montana climbing ice, skiing, having the kid play in snow, you know... The stuff that this forum is suppose to be about.

Two... The Boob thread IS a joke. It is a distraction from the gun thread and yes I knew it would eventually get nuked because that is ST's nature. It's nothing to argue about, point fingers over, name call, etc.

Maybe we need to start a thread on Beer! No, no, NO! Dear lord I am not encouraging alcoholism or driving drunk, etc. Can a thread just be for fun, EVER?



locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 24, 2013 - 11:59pm PT


This thread went to religion...

Serious mistake!!!...

slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:03am PT
No name calling from me but there can be no debate concerning faith, ZERO, between a true believer who thinks to the point of certainty that his is the one and only true path and those who don't share that faith.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:03am PT
Then maybe I should start a thread on wine! Jesus knew about good wine.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:07am PT
Presumption is a weak point of argument Klimmer.

Thinking expediently that there is only one path out of universal suffering makes you look simple concerning solutions to what matters.

Maybe a deeply held volition doesn't make the grade in reality.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:19am PT
"...there can be no debate concerning faith, ZERO, between a true believer who thinks to the point of certainty that his is the one and only true path and those who don't share that faith."

Worth repeating.

One serious reason we have so many problems in the world today.

Also; "...Do you understand what most of us see when you tell us we are damned if we don't acknowledge the supremacy of your god?"

I thought this was a reasonable question, and am curious what Klimmer's answer would be.

cheers
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:22am PT


This is getting pretty serious...



Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:24am PT
It is faith based on physical empirical evidence. And not just a little bit, but a great overwhelming mass of physical evidence.

It's not a blind faith.

What will you all say when it comes to pass just as Yeshua foretold it all would?








Great men (and women) believe in G-d and the Bible, and know Jesus Christ, Yeshua HaMashiach:


Copernicus

Tycho Brahe

Johannes Kepler

Galileo



Newton







George Washington







Even Einstein to a large degree . . .






Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:35am PT
Ah, never mind.
I guess a reasonable answer to a reasonable question was too much to expect (see the first part of my post).

"What will you all say when it comes to pass just as Yeshua foretold it all would?"

Probably the same thing you'd say if it doesn't come to pass. But that's just a wild guess.

cheers

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:42am PT
Well, that answered a simple but naturally hard question Klimmer.

I should look for academic regimen by enrolling in the Bob Jones University of discredited bullsh#t. There can be nothing more defiantly American in the face of truth that one could ever pine for.

Joking aside, I have to ask, What the f*#k ?

There is a book, the only BOOK that can be waved in the face of idiots. Sounds good. Except a lot of people need reality to have an acid test as it applies to reality VS BULLSH#T .

I'm still hopeful that water can be turned to Wine. Every wedding I've been to had a religiously squelching cash bar. Lead me to salvation...
zeta

Trad climber
Portland, OR
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:23am PT
I've been away from ST for a long while and once I saw this thread, I remembered why I stopped reading this forum. As was so eloquently expressed below:

And what is making my blood boil is the really wretched remarks that those who felt the thread was out of place here must be prudes or ugly jealous women. It REALLY pisses me off that these take-down intimidation remarks are almost exclusively aimed at women DESPITE THE FACT that women have been a very minority voice in ths entire discussion. MISOGYNY. And that, in my opinion, is what is at the heart of quite a few of the images posted in the Boobs thread, despite how loudly some proclaim they love women and celebrate the female body.

Be that as it may, it also makes me depressed because although there is clearly diversity of opinion from both men and women about how they found the images, the deletion of the thread has unleashed the most amazing torrent of misogynist bullsh#t. Any women who dares to disagree with you guys is vilified and heaped with derogatory adjectives.

You crusty old farts should stop. your. fvcking. whinging. long. enough. to. take. a. good. hard. look. in. the. fvcking. mirror. and. ask. yourself. why. the. women. don't. want. to. play. with. you. anymore.

I'm no prude, I'm a real climber, and while I don't get bent out of shape about nudity (or pictures of boobs), it's the unbelievable onslaught of shitty comments that come up on this forum about women that has driven this woman climber away from Supertopo.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:43am PT
Zeta,

It isn't as bad as you make it out to be. The real rub has nothing to do with gender.

It has everything to do with bias. Giving credence to the headstrong musings of a proven neophyte can lead to anything goes as long as the aggrieved neo delivers ascent to legislation.

I think all here would rather not have to face the self imposed,unprepared arbiter.

The Empress has no Clothes as it's said, sort of...

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:49am PT



...


Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:53am PT
Careful, Jim.

my Mother and all her brothers,
graduated from Bob Jones University.
:)

She was in the same graduating class as Billy Graham.
All my Uncles on her side were Ministers.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:05am PT
Summary so far:


Boys will be boys

And the womenfolk don't always like it.

Sometimes they overreact and get all emotional.

And some guys are quick to comfort them.

Others think it's funny


What else is new?






Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:07am PT
I don't know how that fits in Cosmic, because Billy was exceptionally to the point and for us scoffers, kinda cool for his uncompromising state of mind.

Look up Bernice Gerard who led an evangelistic path to politics by way of condemning the nude beach at the shores of Point Grey in Vancouver.

Love or hate her, she was the real thing when it came to respecting a point of view.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:33am PT
ken m says t*r ought to have complained to chrismac first, or perhaps have gone to the police. i have a little scientific experiment for him. google "teen porn", and then dial 9-1-1.

Tony, I appreciate what you are trying to say.

I just want to clarify that what I said was that an appropriate action was to complain to CM as a first step (which I don't know happened or not-but speaking generically). She chose the nuke route, but by my reading of the evidence of what occurred, she did not choose to complain to the ISP, nor call the police either of which she could have done, but did not.....and both of which most of us would have considered over the top.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:35am PT
And boys, posting cheesecake photos is not in any way related to climbing, either. So if you are so profound in your purity of maintaining climbing only, you have no basis to support non-climbing photo work, either.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:43am PT
So Ken M,

If I post a picture of a former GF, topless while climbing,should I call a lawyer or a massage therapist ?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:52am PT
Geeze... I go on vacation and look at this!

As you can see I have not been banned. Instead we were in Montana climbing ice, skiing, having the kid play in snow, you know... The stuff that this forum is suppose to be about.

Two... The Boob thread IS a joke. It is a distraction from the gun thread and yes I knew it would eventually get nuked because that is ST's nature. It's nothing to argue about, point fingers over, name call, etc.

Maybe we need to start a thread on Beer! No, no, NO! Dear lord I am not encouraging alcoholism or driving drunk, etc. Can a thread just be for fun, EVER?

Anastasia, I think your post trivializes what happened. At least two women were highly offended enough to quit, and at least several others were also highly offended and the outcome is not yet clear.

I'm not really aware of a thread that has had that effect.

I don't think that anyone questions your intent, but as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

"The community" seems to be upset that members quit because they have been insulted and disrespected, and reduced to their sexual utility.

The import of your thread seemed to be that the value of women in a climbing community is as decoration and convenient sex objects.

I wonder if you'd find offense if a thread was posted whose import was blacks are valued in climbing as n*ggers....even if meant as over-the-top funny. Ha ha? I think you wouldn't.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:56am PT
If I post a picture of a former GF, topless while climbing,should I call a lawyer or a massage therapist ?

I'm not sure what scum who do that should do. Personally, I view it as a sexual assault. I'd wonder why any woman would every trust someone who did that for anything, ever.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:09am PT
First of all Ken... I was actually gone for eleven days in the mountains where everyone should be going "often." I was not here for the drama so I have no idea what the heck happened and honestly am glad since the subject matter was in humor. Seams that it doesn't matter if it is about guns, politics, bolts, boobs, etc. Seams ST Folks will beat each other up with anything.


Two... I did not trivialize, mistreat or name call anyone. I did not post anything rude or condescending, therefore I will not take responsibility for that. If someone did, it shows their idiocy.

Three... Yes, this drama is stupid. People who twist things into ugliness are stupid and yes... That is juvenile. If I had been around, I would have deleted the thread for Chris Mac myself.

Such silliness... Very astounding.


Meow Now

Trad climber
Emerald City
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:09am PT
Why did all those women click on a thread knowing its content would severely offend them? That is what I just can't wrap my head around. Drama! Oh, yes, boobs have never been shown on ST prior to Anastasia's thread. Time to move on from this nonsense bacause it's really not that big of a deal...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:15am PT
Great to hear, meow, that you will not be clicking on my thread celebrating female castration. It's so nice to know that you support anything that you don't want to know about.

I think that slavery can be fun, too. Sorry you won't be reading about it. The volunteer work I've done in trying to eradicate slavery is important, at least I think so. You don't, I guess, because by keeping it off your screen, for you, it doesn't exist.

Others don't take your view of what happens in a community, but it is large enough for those who care, and those who don't.
Meow Now

Trad climber
Emerald City
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:16am PT
Ken, please calm down. You need to breathe... The issue is in regards to a thread posted BOOBS... Period. Dont get off subject.

And Ken, please, stay away from European beaches. We all run around with no tops... I would not want you to have a nervous breakdown or anything while on vacation.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:22am PT
Two... I did not trivialize, mistreat or name call anyone. I did not post anything rude or condescending, therefore I will not take responsibility for that. If someone did, it shows their idiocy.

Actually, Anastasia, I think you are trivializing.

You created a thread that went in a bad direction. It caused people to quit in a fashion that seems unprecedented.

You now state it wasn't your intent (which I believe), and that it's not your fault (which is mostly true), so it doesn't matter and isn't important. Even though there are hundreds of posts on the issue at this point.

That is the definition of trivializing.

triv·i·al·ize
/ˈtrivēəˌlīz/
Verb
Make (something) seem less important, significant, or complex than it really is
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:23am PT
Ken???

WTF is castration having to do with boobs? I don't get the connection and... Seriously, are topless female sunbathers needing to be saved from slavery?

Oh my gosh, am I being enslaved by my husband when I'm breast feeding my child? Really???

This has no logic. None... Actually kind of funny if you think about it.
You objectify women as being without free will, as being helpless victims.

I and my kind are not helpless, we are not victims and we have free will. If we choose to use our bodies for gains, what makes it different from a male body builder, a male model? Saying women are being victimized IS sexist.

Anyway... I'm done and yes... I'll stick to my original view, this is STUPID.

STUPID fights like this is what drive people away. Heck, I am just another woman being bashed. Are you guys targeting us gals or is this just part of the random STUPID.
Meow Now

Trad climber
Emerald City
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:27am PT
+++++2 for Anastasia...

Ken, You have some serious issues...don't know how else to define your lack of logic.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:36am PT
Meow, my asthma is doing well this evening, thanks!

concrete thinking
Psychiatry Cognition that reflects experience, rather than abstraction, typical of those who are unable to generalize

You don't appear to understand the point of my post, which is in response to your post that "you don't understand".

I take it that you actually do understand, but are using that phraseology to avoid discussing the issue directly. People often do that when they feel inadequate to the task. I have no idea if that applies to you in this situation.

Maybe you don't understand. Why would someone take a look into a thread that upsets them, then take an action about it?

Because some people care how others are treated. some care how THEY are treated.

I appreciate that you aren't good with abstract thoughts, but how would you respond to a thread that had a title "Meow is sh*t?" Surely, there would be a bunch of upsetting stuff in there, and you are so mature as to ignore it. But not too many people would. By the way, I would not be tolerant of such a thread about you.

I hope this explains, in a clear fashion, why some people who belong to this community are somewhat intolerant to class disparagement of others in the community.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:39am PT
Good lord, this has taken me two bowls of popcorn to read through!

Anastasia, love how you can cut directly through the crap and get to the gist of it all! Good on ya. Done with style and a healthy sense of humor (self and otherwise)! As always. :-)

Anyway, I just happened to come across a video that pretty much sums up (if that is possible) how these wacky threads seem to always end up:



Hee hee!

Anastasia has expressed the key element: go do something outside (the weather or season is no excuse especially fer all you tough guys!), preferably for extended periods of time. And take a look in the mirror and have a good laugh. I do it all the time!

Love y'all all!

Eric
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:42am PT
Ken M I would check with your doctor, you are definitely a candidate for TRT.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:44am PT
So I am inadequate?

Now YOU are being condescending and exactly the kind of person you claim to be trying to save us from.

Don't try to twist this into something of "you don't get my higher thinking" or you must be avoiding the subject.

I simply got you beat.


AFS

P.S.

You really are being very rude. Plus by disrespecting my intelligence... Seriously, what kind of woman's rights activist are you if YOU can Treat Me, a Female like a small stupid child? Your treatment of ME again shows that you have no understanding of respecting others that you are preaching. Try it yourself... Heck, try it on me before expecting others to take your high and mighty preaching of being sensitive seriously.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:49am PT
It's OK Ana, some people are really just crazy and you can't change them. 70 more years on this planet I don't suffer fools :) so for me its all sex, drugs and rock... well mostly just rock.*





*from a 5.10 ad :D
John M

climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:59am PT
So I am inadequate?

I don't believe he was addressing you Anastasia. I believe he was addressing meow now. This post.

Why did all those women click on a thread knowing its content would severely offend them? That is what I just can't wrap my head around. Drama! Oh, yes, boobs have never been shown on ST prior to Anastasia's thread. Time to move on from this nonsense bacause it's really not that big of a deal...

Ken, it would be a good idea if you addressed your post to who you are responding to.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:00am PT
Ken???

WTF is castration having to do with boobs? I don't get the connection and... Seriously, are topless female sunbathers needing to be saved from slavery?

Oh my gosh, am I being enslaved by my husband when I'm breast feeding my child? Really???

This has no logic. None... Actually kind of funny if you think about it.
You objectify women as being without free will, as being helpless victims.

I and my kind are not helpless, we are not victims and we have free will. If we choose to use our bodies for gains, what makes it different from a male body builder, a male model? Saying women are being victimized IS sexist.

Anastasia,

see my previous quote about "concrete thinking" in reference to abstract example. (that was NOT directed to you or what you were saying.)

I'm a white male. In my experiences, I've encountered women who like being called whores (who are not in that occupation), blacks that like being called n*ggers, jews that think it is funny being called kik*s, etc.
Does that give me license to refer to those groups that way? Does it excuse me from saying something when that is how those groups are referred to?

Am I victimizing women when I stand with women who object to being called whores? Am I victimizing blacks and jews when I stand with them against those who use those terms?

In this situation, I am standing with at least two women who were willing to give up their membership over what they perceived as treatment of women.
I'm not sure that I see how that victimizes you?

I don't know how you act when your friends are victimized, and attacked. I can't say that I can honestly call t*r and Lolli friends, having never met either. But they are members of a community to which I belong who I earnestly believe feel wronged. I have certainly seen both savaged in the aftermath. It is particularly hard to understand in the case of Lolli, who I"ve never seen say mean words to anyone, and made no fuss in this matter, but just quietly slipped away without so much as a statement. I stand with them.

My posts have basically been along the lines of explanation, interpretation, and thoughts about why people might take offense to the "boobs" thread. As a result, I've been rather aggressively reprimanded, as though I have no right to say anything.

I'm surprised that you make the argument that basically amounts to "being a man, you've no right to make statements about abuse of women". Well, if that's so, since you're not a child, you've no right to make a statement about child abuse...or about men, blacks, jews, or the poor. I doubt that you think that.

You are entitled to have your opinion about what consists of abuse and exploitation of women. However, you do not represent all women, and you do not have the right to dismiss the complaints of other women, simply because you are a woman.

You may choose not to stand with women who feel violated, and dismiss them (trivialize them), as is your right.

I stand with them.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:06am PT
How does that make it better? Claiming either I or someone else incapable of understanding. That isn't nice.

I think what we should do is BE NICE! You know, what five year olds are taught in kindergarten. Try it. Might Improve not only the forum, it will improve one's life.

You don't have to stand for this or that... How the heck did this get so twisted into some kind of political stance. Really sad... Throwing mud on each other for what? Really? This? Too bad that folks like killing nice fun things by making them ugly this way. All that arguing for such silly stuff and to keep it up! Wow... Astounding.

I'm done.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:15am PT
You really are being very rude. Plus by disrespecting my intelligence... Seriously, what kind of woman's rights activist are you if YOU can Treat Me, a Female like a small stupid child? Your treatment of ME again shows that you have no understanding of respecting others that you are preaching. Try it yourself... Heck, try it on me before expecting others to take your high and mighty preaching of being sensitive seriously.

Anastasia, I'm not sure that I'm disrespecting your intelligence by pointing out that you have TOTALLY missed the point of my thread by using a type of common logic that leads you down a road of thinking that misinterprets what another is writing.

I'm the kind of women's rights activist that believes in treating women EQUALLY. That means you don't get treated politely, when you disrespect other members, such as t*r and Lolli. You get treated the same as would Ron. If, in the process of standing with them, I criticize you, you then take that as an attack on women? You are the appointed representative of all women, and any criticism of you is an attack on women generally?

Isn't that what you want? Equal treatment? Actually, I'm not sure that you can handle it. I'm not talking about "women", I'm talking about YOU. If you look around, Ron has had to endure FAR more worse language and verbiage from me, than you are getting.

John, I think I'd placed the name of the person I was addressing in each post, which I think is a good idea. Maybe you were pointing that out.....
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:20am PT
Wow, condescending toward me just to make sure... You are that threatened of me that you need to put me down AGAIN?

Don't kid yourself. The reason you won't treat me equally is because you can't reach it.

Anyway, kid has fallen asleep. Now I can join him.



Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:26am PT
How does that make it better? Claiming either I or someone else incapable of understanding. That isn't nice.

However, Anastasia, you might consider that the invective that you thought was directed at you as example of how I don't understand how I am attacking women.......was actually directed at a man....then your allegation of my misogynistic tendencies might have been a *smidgen* overstated.



I think what we should do is BE NICE! You know, what five year olds are taught in kindergarten. Try it. Might Improve not only the forum, it will improve one's life.

You don't have to stand for this or that... How the heck did this get so twisted into some kind of political stance. Really sad... Too bad that folks like killing nice fun things this way. All that arguing for such silly stuff and to keep it up! Wow... Astounding.

Well, that's a good concept. In theory.

But at least two people have been deeply hurt. enough to quit. Then on top of that, in discussing it, they have both been rather savaged, where they have no opportunity to even defend themselves. Frankly, I think attacking them in that situation is rather cowardly.

You response, to our hurting friends, is rather like "well, lets forget that and them, and lets have a nice fun party." and why do folks like killing nice fun things this way?

I love to have fun, and enjoy doing fun things. But not all things are nice fun things.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:35am PT
I know this thread is titled "a serious matter" but Ken you take supertopos way too seriously & need to chill out man, maybe the ppl who quit did so because they felt they were taking it too seriously & needed to step away. It's ok to step away, it's just the f*#king Internet, real life is still happening out there. As someone who is just reading through this latest garbage I say this in the nicest way- you are not going to do yourself any favors or receive any sort of redemption by posting any more arguments here. Your obviously a smart dude but right now ur coming off as the guy who has lost his sh#t, time to reel it in. If you do that, this thread will hopefully fall into the archives where it belongs. Good luck. It's gnarly in super-OT land where u guys/gals hang out.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:37am PT
Hi Anastasia,

I don’t believe there were many clear-cut postings blaming you. I didn’t read all the threads that clocked in on the topic…there were several. A portion of us felt the breast thread ultimately ripened into something ridiculously excessive and some felt was outrageous.

I wouldn’t take the rumpus and row as a categorical bill of indictment toward you.

The prudes vs. perverts wrangling became heated but it’s still January …hopefully T*R will be welcomed back and ST will survive this without anyone being labeled miscreant or assigned long-time Rascal Status. Best wishes…
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 25, 2013 - 05:32am PT
Jennie, TR did what she did then when she got banned came back with a new handle to keep causing problems.

Her actions came back to haunt her.

While I love Ana, I didn't agree with AF's thread and knew it would turn into crap in the long run. But I simply stayed away from it. No thoughts, no comments.

TR didn't and went nuts on it. If you don't agree with it, stay away from it like I did. TR couldn't help herself.
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 25, 2013 - 07:36am PT
So Ken, just as a point of clarity, you seem upset that two members of this forum are now gone. Do you have any personal insight or first hand knowledge of why Lolli jumped ship? From what I have seen she simply walked away and left a blank slate. Having seen nothing else it's hard for me to give reason to that without jumping to conclusions. I do recall seeing a post from someone that received a PM from her stating that it was for personal reasons. I'll try to find it later.

As far as T*R goes, obviously she found offense and took action. She was then banned for that action.

If you're basing your outrage and criteria on two individuals of this forum, one of which who's leaving seems to be an unknown and the other very well known, well, so be it, even if I think maybe you're getting a bit ahead of yourself.
sullly

Trad climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 08:17am PT
I complained because I am a CA credentialed public high school teacher who did not think another CA credentialed public high school teacher should be posting a naked torso shot of herself. As a woman, as a teacher, and as a former CTA union rep. I was offended.

justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Jan 25, 2013 - 08:48am PT
I've been trying to stay out of this stupid crap but I gotta back up my girl Anastasia on this one.

+1 for Slayton's comment there as well.

Just gotta say... I'm TOTALLY sick of you morons SPECULATING about Lolli quitting over the boob-thread and posting it as fact. You people don't know sh#t and have ZERO clue why she left so unless you can produce an email verifying it, I'd quit perpetrating that stupid rumor. I suspect it was more about being tired of listening to vicious meannie-whiners fight constantly but that's my personal speculation.


Reily
America! they are just f*#king boobs

Yup^^

I'm gonna go back to watching dolphin rescues and bumping trip reports now.


Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Jan 25, 2013 - 09:30am PT
I was actually gone for eleven days in the mountains where everyone should be going "often." I was not here for the drama so I have no idea what the heck happened and honestly am glad since the subject matter was in humor.

Such a rad statement to wake up, have coffee and see.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jan 25, 2013 - 09:59am PT
Boobs are great and boobs are good, but boobs aren't that great and boobs aren't that good. Certainly not that good or bad to have caused all of this.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 25, 2013 - 10:01am PT
A serious matter?

Seriously, you guys need to get out of Berkeley and see the world once in a while.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 10:15am PT
I think there should be no threads--ever--that offend anyone.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 25, 2013 - 10:43am PT
Certainly not that good or bad to have caused all of this.

Never underestimate the power of boobs, Mark.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 25, 2013 - 10:45am PT
I have a question.

Having not yet been to Europe, how do men respond to all the topless women at the beach?

Do they walk with another guy friend behind them and make hand gestures as to how they'd like to take some action like grabbing the breasts and playing with them? Or make the "I've got a massive boner" hand signal?

I am thinking there are probably a few who do, but probably most don't. So, I think that when people are comparing the boobs thread to beaches in europe, it is not an accurate comparison.

That's another thing that really pisses me off. People who put fake arguments into a conversation. Reasonable people don't expect others to "cheat" when it comes to debate, and are usually taken off guard, and don't immediately respond because it does that. And so the one who throws the garbage statement in believes he has won a point.

Not so.

Or, the person hearing that argument is forced to stop a rational debate to go off with them on their illogical tangent which really amounts to poor sportsmanship at the least. I see it as very low quality debating style; a sign of a mind not too keen.


Where I live, there is a swimming and sunbathing area which has a nude section. If a guy sits there gaping at a woman, he is going to be asked by the others to stop or get the hell out. The area actually also has a pretty good number of gay men there, and there have been times when people did walk into the woods unexpectedly and find some pretty serious(a joke with the thread title...) stuff going down(literally). But again, if a guy started rubbing his crotch in the sunbathing area as he watched another guy - that would be considered inappropriate.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jan 25, 2013 - 11:08am PT
if a guy started rubbing his crotch in the sunbathing area

Advantage or Frontline should take care of it.
Maybe I'm on the wrong thread????


Susan
I'm Rick James, Bitch

Social climber
Up in it and down on it
Jan 25, 2013 - 11:29am PT
Where I live, there is a swimming and sunbathing area which has a nude section. If a guy sits there gaping at a woman, he is going to be asked by the others to stop or get the hell out. The area actually also has a pretty good number of gay men there, and there have been times when people did walk into the woods unexpectedly and find some pretty serious(a joke with the thread title...) stuff going down(literally). But again, if a guy started rubbing his crotch in the sunbathing area as he watched another guy - that would be considered inappropriate.

Lordy Lordy, my how the Pit has changed!
CIRJB!!!!!!!!(*)(*)
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 11:53am PT



+1 for Anastasia!!!...



Young lady, you often amaze me...

;-)





justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Lordy Lordy, my how the Pit has changed!


HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
As a woman, as a teacher, and as a former CTA union rep. I was offended.


I'd be interested in hearing what experiences you had or what thinking process you go through to get "offended" about what someone else posts on a niche site like this. Not saying that you don't have a right to be offended. You have every right, IMO, and I'l fight for your right to voice your opinion here and elsewhere. But I'm curious, in this case, how that process works, and what stories you tell yourself in terms of what said photo (of A. with the nude torso) "means" to you and others.

JL
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
Sully has a very good point yet it missed a little one... I didn't and never would post a picture of myself "nude or partially nude." My husband suggested that one HE posted was me but seriously folks, it wasn't. You folks give me way too much credit. Plus I won't chase the husband with a broom over his antics. He's allowed to be silly, and no... I am not offended with his idea of boobs. He sees them at work all the time and the more deformed the more he studies them. It's not kinky when it's part of his job.

I also never posted nude pictures, All my posts were covered up. The boys did which I think many can proudly claim is their own work.

As for things going sour, I wasn't around but I am happy that ST nuked the thread because I would happily have done it myself. A joke turned bad, I totally agree. Why didn't I nuke it earlier, well... Bill was enjoying it so I let him and others have their fun. Was it so evil? I'll let Hugh Hefner and folks like the Victoria Secret Models explain it. I mean I've seen a Million Dollar bra but nothing else comparable for the boys. Some things just are.

As for this site... I seriously don't worry about kids here. Well, except for the Old ones and yes, this includes myself.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
You gotta keep a reign on them boobs. The uterus, that's an area that needs a good watching over too.

I see a lot I don't like here. I usually don't click on it, or I give the malfactors the hell I think they deserve. Beyond speaking my mind, farbeit for me to moderate free human beings who happen to see the world through a different lens (within reason, of course).

As to people quitting or not quitting over this, that's their bad for being quitters.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
I'm scratching my head trying to understand the connection between boobs and the CTA union.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:25pm PT

"I mean I've seen a Million Dollar bra but nothing else comparable for the boys."...


Then you really NEED to check out my diamond studded COD PIECE...
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
Just in case you guys forgot, there are some great climbing threads on this forum. You should check 'em out! Too sw0le!

Oh, and Anastasia is still my hero. Y'all h8ers can blow me. I tried to inject some cultural, academic, sociological and historical blood into this thread but wtf, this is supertopo. What the f*#k was I thinking?!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:30pm PT




locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:34pm PT


...

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
It's about the proper conduct of a teacher and my job security. Luckily it doesn't apply to me anymore. Will I ever teach high school again? Nope. I do not see how it is possible with the current lack of jobs and... The whole teaching industry seams geared for failure since treating everyone with different needs/skill the same simply isn't logical. Inclusive education in increasing class sizes with less time for each student. Plus the trend of using teachers as escape goats, demanding more from smaller budgets. We don't have money for science labs, books, multi media, etc... How can we offer a better education with less stuff, less time, a more complicated and larger class population? Well, now this is a whole other argument.

Anyway... That is that.


Again please note I did not post a nude picture of anyone including myself. Saying I did is an inaccurate statement.
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
Having not yet been to Europe, how do men respond to all the topless women at the beach?

brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
+1 Anastasia. I agree 100%.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
if a guy started rubbing his crotch in the sunbathing area

Yeah, I guess you haven't been to Ibiza.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Jan 25, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
Ken, based on your posts here you seem to be extremely narrow minded and pompous, and I find your diatribe regarding this thread to be much more objectionable than any picture that was posted in the BOOB thread. I seriously don't think that you will understand this, but you comparing posting pictures of topless women to slavery, racism, and the abuse and exploitation of women trivializes all of those serious issues. Of all the BS that has been posted about this "serious matter," your posts are by far and away the most offensive.

FWIW, I liked many of TR's post. I did not agree with her stance on the boobs thread AT ALL, but am sorry to see her go. I greatly enjoyed almost everything Lolli posted and was always happy to read her the perspective on issues. I don't believe anyone knows why she left, but I wish she would come back.

One more thing... they are BOOBS! Boobs are good. Boobs are not offensive. It is ok for guys and gals to look at them and think they are beautiful. The human body is not something to be embarrassed about. I think that a lot of you folks just need to relax... but that is just my opinion.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Just gotta say... I'm TOTALLY sick of you morons SPECULATING about Lolli quitting over the boob-thread and posting it as fact. You people don't know sh#t and have ZERO clue why she left so unless you can produce an email verifying it, I'd quit perpetrating that stupid rumor...

Well-worth repeating!
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
somehow i cant post a pic of a box of kleenX for all the wankers but got to walgreens or better yet, WALMART and get yourself some if you really think this sh#t is serious.
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
you see the women here pointing out that there is a big difference between nudity and porn, soft or harsh.

No one is unaware of the hostility and exploitation behind pornography. Some the posters here like to identify with that and make use of it to settle their own feelings of inadequacy through intimidation of others. Awareness of the hostility and exploitation of pornography is painful, so many people try to ignore, deny, or downplay it. Some of us just have more balls than others and are able to be aware and speak out. Big thanks to all who have!

When someone has taken a big sh#t in the living room it stinks and is offensive. Better to clean it up than leave it there.


PS, this whole episode is NOT about Anastasia in any way, t*r, Lolli, or any of these peripheral arguments. It is about the underlying (and overt)sexualized hostility, the exploitation of women and girls, both generally and personally here on this forum. The thread became rank in a seriously offensive way, and a legal liability. Better it's gone.
WBraun

climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
Psyops and Blackops experts study stupid threads like this and see how stupid Americans can be.

This why and how the Americans have lost their rights, freedoms and gone off to stupid wars over the years,
along with believing every stupid thing they hear and see in the media these days. ......
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
You know what's stupid, Werner? Generalizations!

TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jan 25, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
some serious shiz going on here
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
Went through the Mapplethorpe show at LACMA. WHOA! They had guards at the
entrance to keep kids out unless mom wanted to show little Jimmy that fisting pics can be art.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
as long as the Penises are not erect, then it is not sexual

It still would be controversial. People would argue i.e. over the angle. Is 90 degrees up considered erected???

LOL
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
what is the legal age for breast feeding in california?

ot: did those guys make it to angel island?

you know, escape from alcatraz, eastwood's movie
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
you see the women here pointing out there is a big difference between nudity and porn, soft or harsh.

Well, sort of, but not really. What generally I see here are entrenched sterotypes, a radical devotion to cherished orthodoxies, an unwillingness to examine beliefs, jaw-dropping misinformation regarding simple matters of fact ("legal liability?"), and minds buttoned up tighter than space capsules.

I'll try this one more time, although actually tackling the arduous and sometimes painful chore of periodically examining and reaffirming one's belief system is far too arduous a task for most. Prove me wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-wave_feminism

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
...and minds buttoned up tighter than space capsules.

I like that one. It begs the point that some may just have bone encapsulating space too.

You can try and bottle up sexuality but it will emerge in some form, like it or not. The more stilted and ruled by morality it becomes, the more insidious its expression. Some guys openly agog at the female form has its drawbacks, but at least you see the whole show out in the open. Better than priests f*#king children in confessional booths, but your ymmv.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
The thing about a space capsule is no fresh air gets in or out; the same stale crap just keeps getting recycled. This thread is 278 posts and counting.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
There is a solution:



photo not found
Missing photo ID#286389
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
MORE BOOBS PLEASE. I like em. Quite nice.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
Hey Ken, maybe you should chill out a little and have a beer.


























































































Credit: The Larry
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
^^^ Yup... One of my original pictures... Note the clothes and the humor. No nudity was needed. Again, none of my pictures actually had nudity. As you can see, it worked so well people didn't notice I had NOT posted a nude picture. You can say a whole lot of the same without using nudity. People should work on that.


Plus...

I grew up with National Geographic. Plenty of boobs in that magazine and no one is that upset about taking advantage of the natives, human slavery, etc. "Please Note this is significant because in the regions that National Geographic is presenting, that stuff really does exist." So why no complaints there and here it's something else?

Also we have tons of medical books here. Aris is going to get an eye full. I am not going to lock up Bill's medical books just because the kid might see nudity. The context and how it is presented does make a difference. Plus, I rather he learn to see the body first through a scientific view point than being introduced to it in other ways. Then maybe he might not be so mesmerized, and over sexualized. Yes, I think suppression does make minor things more stimulating than it really is.

Plus I've been in many hot tubs with boys and girls naked and no one was offended or mouthing off rude comments. Why does it occur here? This is the interesting anthropology, social question. Seriously how can public hot tubs around Mammoth (I know many of you have been there) be so respectful and casual.. Then here it becomes something viciously wrong?

What the heck is wrong with society that feeds off of this kind of drama?


bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
+1 on that.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:36pm PT


"Went through the Mapplethorpe show"...

Which was originally (Years back) canceled due to PRUDES...

So glad it made it back around and is now being viewed for the great ART that it is...

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
Anastasia made some great points and I'd like to add some thoughts of mine.

Context is a huge key to what is tasteful and enjoyable versus rude or outright disgusting.

I definately do not get the folks who find any nudity wrong. But I certainly understand the outrage when it comes to even skirting underage porn. I know folks whose lives were affected by sexual abuse when young. If you havn't seen the results you simply cannot understand how terribly destructive it is. It is one of the worst crimes I can think of.

Sadly it only takes one insensitive ignorant person to cross that line and destroy what was otherwise a harmless and in many case beautiful thread and throw turmoil into a community.

The matter of underage abuse is rightfully serious and as can be seen it will mangle a community due to it's deep destructiveness,
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
the Mapplethorpe show was brought back because of a lot of people pounding their fists on a table and making a lot of noise.
John M

climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:42pm PT

Anastasia.. I was sunbathing with some lady friends at a swimming hole in Wawona. This hole is well hidden and if you don't know its there, you can walk right by it. You can't see the sunbathing spot from the trail. We were just hanging there doing our thing when around the rock comes this guy leading a church group. He has a video camera and he points the camera at us and starts shooting. I walk up to him and put my hand over the lens and tell him that if he didn't want to go for a swim with his camera, that he would have to stop taking pictures.

I think some people forget that many people in America are still offended by nudity. The respect you find around the swimming holes in California is due in part to teaching people and in part to running off the most obvious pervs.

Oh.. and in the above story, these people weren't there to swim. If they were and they didn't like the nudity, we would have put on swim suits. This guy was a preacher and he knew about the swimming hole and he was into some weird got to make the heathens feel bad kind of thing. I gave him a different message.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
What the hell? Like I said... What the hell were people posting while I was gone? If that was the case, then yeah... Underage is a BIG issue, it is criminal and the person posting should be ashamed and afraid. The big arm of the law does go far.

Yup, glad it was erased. Holy shamolly... I'm speechless.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
Locker, the guy was a great photog and I don't mind looking at great pics of honed doods,
but some of that stuff could put an eye out!
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
I've also seen this community remain silent as a doormouse as several users made sexually threatening or insinuating comments about other members' underage daughters here. Due respect to you "moral" crusaders who said nothing then and now complain about a little skin of the legal age.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
^ I only know of one incident that involved comments about DMTs kid and that guy got some serious flak from me and many others. It's the only time I have reported and I suppose he was banned.. haven't seen him again afaik. I have no problem speaking up if I see something waay wrong.

Anastasia
Whether the pics were actually underage or not is hard to say but it looked close enough to have crossed a very bad line.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:46pm PT


"but some of that stuff could put an eye out!"...


Dude was HARD core, for sure...(pun obviously intended)

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
With all due jebus that is not strictly correct - Mighty Hiker and several others did in fact speak up and quite strongly. Someone must have complained too because the offending threads disappeared and I did not do the complaining (in the cases I am thinking of, there was more than one).

DMT
crock

Trad climber
The Windiest Mountain, Wyoming
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
Someone posted a picture of a 21-year-old woman with small breasts.

People found that offensive because they felt women with small breasts looked like children.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
Not only are the pics of under-age kids of questionable legality, so is making accessible TO under-age kids adult materials - even if the models are of legal age.

Since no one is checking IDs at the door here, there's nothing preventing kids from accessing what's posted here.

There are people in jail right now for making racy photos available to kids.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
With all due jebus that is not strictly correct - Mighty Hiker and several others did in fact speak up and quite strongly. Someone must have complained too because the offending threads disappeared and I did not do the complaining (in the cases I am thinking of, there was more than one).

DMT


Ah, well, at the time it seemed most steered clear (I did not). Certainly not the widespread, multi-thread approbation over some prudish bs melodrama. You took the high road when (at least when I saw the thread), a hard task I am sure. Much respect.

Also, goatboysmellz took a swing at Silver's beloved daughter (not more than 3-years old) with some gang rape innuendo. Mostly radio silence on that one and that goathole remains a member here at a time when the almighty Oz was in full on banning mode.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
Anastasia, my understanding is there were no underage pics, merely young looking models. Not a line I would feel comfortable trodding, mind you, but there is a difference.

edit: You erased! Don't leave a bro hangin'!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 02:58pm PT


"goatboysmellz took a swing at Silver's beloved daughter with some gang rape innuendo (for a 3-year old I met)."...


Huh???...

He did???...



GoatBOIeeeeee...

What the FUK???...




bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
What the hell? Like I said... What the hell were people posting while I was gone? If that was the case, then yeah... Underage is a BIG issue, it is criminal and the person posting should be ashamed and afraid. The big arm of the law does go far.

Nothing even remotely underage, Anastasia. Not even close. Petite women with small breasts. As I pointed out at the time this red herring was first floated, if you visit a college campus these days the 18 - 22 year olds look like children, the way I imagine Jr. High kids looked like to me 30 years ago. And as we get older this perceptual distortion only becomes more pronounced, jarring, and striking. That this notion could get any traction at all is a reflection of the overwhelmingly white, middle class, 30-and-over demographic of this forum.

Oh Well.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
Yeah, locker, true. Although the goat-hole thought it was justified because Silver isn't a dog lover or sumsh#t.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
why not a thread devoted to Penises of adult males?



as long as the Penises are not erect, then it is not sexual

Are you suggesting that none of the images in the boob thread were sexualized? Why must the male body be shown in a non-sexual manner but it is okay to show the female body in that manner?

(Edit: Image removed as a courtesy)



It seems many here just cannot accept that there are various opinions and be respectful of them; they need to lash out with intimidation tactics in an attempt to silence others.

I said I would begin posting images to counterbalance the boobs ones being shown in this thread(or the other booby whinefest threads). While there haven't been any boob shots that I noticed, I think some still are not quite getting the point. And so, when guys continue with the stance that there is something wrong with women who didn't mind their own business about that thread, and try to intimidate any men who actually have the balls to stand up and provide their opinion as well, I will be making....a point, through imagery.






climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
As the saying goes.."whats good for the goose..."

Back to outrage regarding anything that skirts underage.

If you havn't seen the destruction of a persons life due to abuse I suppose it might be hard to understand the outrage of those who have seen it. A line that you just can't get anywhere near without being burned.

See the Irish Patrick's (cant remember his exact sceen name )threads about caregiving to catch a glimpse.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
Sorry Jebus,

I erased after realizing how that post can be twisted. I don't want that...

I am right now feeling really bad about that line being crossed. Holy heck folks... I knew you guys will get the thread nuked but I thought it would be over something like Locker's plugs, etc. Not this, NEVER this. That's astounding bad. Don't do that...




atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
"Someone posted a picture of a 21-year-old woman with small breasts.

People found that offensive because they felt women with small breasts looked like children."

Someone also posted a bunch of pictures of girls who looked under 18. I thought that was offensive.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
So Ken, just as a point of clarity, you seem upset that two members of this forum are now gone. Do you have any personal insight or first hand knowledge of why Lolli jumped ship? From what I have seen she simply walked away and left a blank slate. Having seen nothing else it's hard for me to give reason to that without jumping to conclusions. I do recall seeing a post from someone that received a PM from her stating that it was for personal reasons. I'll try to find it later.

As far as T*R goes, obviously she found offense and took action. She was then banned for that action.

If you're basing your outrage and criteria on two individuals of this forum, one of which who's leaving seems to be an unknown and the other very well known, well, so be it, even if I think maybe you're getting a bit ahead of yourself.

I do have personal first hand knowledge.

I don't think I'd describe my emotions as "outrage", as much as sadness.

I am unaware of ANY thread, that resulted in the quitting of two members. Are you? Due to them being offended as having the minority class to which they belong being put down.

It is totally legitimate to discuss whether such threads are a put down of a class. Would a thread on blacks, that went on for a thousand posts, repeating stereotypes be a put down? Undoubtedly some would day yes, some no.

But the nature of community is to discuss things. And the "sentinal event" of a thread that causes people to quit, just by it's existance, seems to be a notable event.

and also, I find it interesting the problem people seem to have with standing with those who have left on philosophical grounds, and even being willing to look at what the issue might have been and why it was an issue.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
As for sexualized... What isn't these days? The Kardashians? LOL! Victoria Secret's clothing line PINK? Why are there female news anchors that can sideline as models, where did all the others ones go? They don't qualify anymore? Plus why do many anchor women wear such low cut and tight shirts?
It's the freakin NEWS!!!!

When are we going to admit it, face it, deal it out? Pretending we are in a moral world when it obviously is a world that is over sexualized... I think avoiding it, pretending it's not there is very dangerous.

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
Damn Happy girl that dood is Swole!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
no, many of them were sexualized, were soft-core porn, and should NOT have been included, imo

and that is almost word for word what t*r said was her objection to the boob thread


I wonder if the boob thread could have survived and been progressively added to, if it was started by a male instead

my guess is that because a female started it, then it became ok like it was legitimized
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
Plus I've been in many hot tubs with boys and girls naked and no one was offended or mouthing off rude comments. Why does it occur here?

Because nobody would act this silly without clothes on.


I was at Travertine once and was asked by this, ahem, lovely woman, to put my clothes on or leave since she didn't want her sons (around 10) to see nudity. Quite rudely. I calmly continued to disrobe and enter the pool. I then made direct eye contact and said, "by the looks of you, I'd be more concerned about the impact that the McDonald's you feed your kids has on them than my skin." (The only other vehicle was assumably theirs and FULL of junk food trash.) They left.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
I bet if all the mass shooters had some boobs in their life they might not have gone all postal.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
I definately do not get the folks who find any nudity wrong.

I definitely do not recall noticing any posts made by someone who finds any nudity wrong.... Could you please provide at lease a reminder of what was posted? I don't expect you to go searching back over posts to directly pinpoint this(which is another cheap tactic some people employ - task the person with something which requires an inordinate amount of effort and when they person doesn't comply to the stupid demand, claim victory on a point), but I honestly don't believe anyone here has said, or even suggested, that all nudity is bad.

Also, it is certainly not simple nudity which is what people are finding offensive about this whole matter. It is not even the boob thread itself, at this point, and never was, for me. I am not 100% sure, but I THINK what has got people upset now is the aggressive hostility being blasted at anyone who makes a post against the sacrosanctity of the boobs thread.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
I don't recall any topless dreamy eyed ladies sprawled on the sheets clutching their genitals through wet panties in the "Boobs Thread"

Which would be the equivalent of HG's post



Please start your own vindictive male anatomy objectification thread, so we can choose to avoid it, "Happy", as you had the opportunity to avoid the evil Boobs Thread.


Thanks in advance,

Kev
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
Happie..

Nah my comment right there was directed in general not specifically to anything posted here on the Taco.

Yeah this stuff is explosive and has damaged a community. Some of it for good reason some not so much. Sad really but predictable once certain lines are approached.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
Most are merely voicing their opinion, Happie. I don't see the rampant bullying, or intimidations as you say, by either side here, just opinions. I could give two shits if the boob thread exists or not, but I thought it had a right to exist. Because others disagree with my opinion doesn't mean they are bullying me, even if they got their way and still continue to whine about the tragedy of those who decided to leave on their own volition. I don't see a self-imposed time out or boycotting as being bullied, it's just a consumer choice. I didn't see the questionable photos of young looking models to say what I thought either though. Like Anastasia said, the thread was probably bound to implode eventually as people were increasingly encouraged to show each other their wank material.

That's my f'd up paragraph's worth of bullying, anyway ;).
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
People need to relax. A person doesn't like it... That is valid and not worth bashing them for that opinion. A person does like the boob thread is also valid and not worth bashing over either.

Illegal activity... Yeah, that's obviously wrong, you don't need much brains or morality to figure that out. No matter what you think upon nudity itself. That is worth a good NUKING for obvious reasons. Totally agree...

Witch hunting, pointing fingers, being rude... That's obviously not good no matter what stance you are defending.

Let the thread die, the joke is over... People made it into something else, what's new? Now whoever was rude to another person and those who were rude to the girls, go write an apology to them and stop being mean over pictures. They are just pictures, not the Mona Lisa or the Sistine Chapel (even though that is full of nudity too.) It's not worth it.

You don't have to apologize for your beliefs. Apologize for hurting feelings because that does matter.

That's my two cents.



happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Why are there female news anchors that can sideline as models, where did all the others ones go? They don't qualify anymore? Plus why do many anchor women wear such low cut and tight shirts?


You answered that one yourself: They don't qualify anymore. Just like the 45 year old guy who can do a job just as good, or better, than a 25 year old isn't "qualified" any more. Or, more likely, they will be termed overqualified, and told they wouldn't be happy in a job beneath their skill level. Which is the same thing the women who don't display themselves as eye candy are told.

Anastasia - Going "along" with the idea that sexualization is the primary value of women is the problem. That is also WHY women are shrouded in the bhurkas and such in some societies.

Again - I don't believe anyone here is saying they find distaste in seeing a woman's naked body, but the tactic of turning them into seasonings for the sausage.
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
but the tactic of turning them into seasonings for the sausage.

What the heck does "seasonings for the sausage" mean?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
Yeah this stuff is explosive and has damaged a community.

If you actually believe this then the community you are referring to probably never existed in the first place.
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
those were photos of prepubescent girls. not 18 and up with small breasts. NO breast development and a couple with new breast buds. Some had developing breasts that could be mistaken for adults. lots of face makeup. which is the usual for child porn. A stint at CPS makes one acutely aware of what is child porn.
Your hostility and defensiveness is just that, hostility and defensiveness. Be at peace. Offer some kindness for those who are injured by this industry.

Happpie has made so many excellent observations regarding the inequalities present here.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
What the hell? Like I said... What the hell were people posting while I was gone? If that was the case, then yeah... Underage is a BIG issue, it is criminal and the person posting should be ashamed and afraid. The big arm of the law does go far.

Yup, glad it was erased. Holy shamolly... I'm speechless

There's no way IHP would post pics of underage girls. It's simply inconceivable that he would be that stupid. I didn't see the last pics posted before the thread was deleted, but I clicked on his profile and there were a couple where the models looked really young. One in particular looked like a girl with the breast development of a young teenager, but her face looked like she could well be 18. Although the photos were in no way sexualized, I personally find such photos totally out of place in a thread full of real WOMEN, and yes it is creepy indeed that 50-something men would find that sort of thing a turn on (assuming they even do).

The photos in question are now gone, but then so are dozens (if knott 100's) of others where the models were quite obviously over 18.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
The sexualization bit, Hankster, is what I believe Happie alludes.

Dunno, there are some truths but also some over simplifications to this discussion. That we sexualize each other is probably unavoidable as humans. There is a biologic basis, my fellow neuters and gender neutral automotons. Coming out as the firebrand in these matters is probably the quickest route to hypocrisy, however, whether you are feminist, religious, or otherwise. Thou shalt not... report me to the Cardinal.
matisse

climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
I personally never had a problem with the boob thread. I paint nudes and have worked as an artists model in the past. I think some of you are missing the point (or at least my point)
what I have a problem with is the way people, particularly women, were treated who did object to it and the total melt down temper tantrum some of you guys had when it got whacked.

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 25, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
With all due respect Lucky Pink, how are you so sure those girls were underage?

Most posters here disagree.

That's a loaded and libelous claim, a "serious matter", so to speak.

Back it up or button it up.


You're entitled to your opinion on the intent and morality of The Thread, but what you are accusing the posters of, and possibly the site of, is illegal, if I'm not mistaken, and to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person is the legal definition of libel - "a serious matter".
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
I didn't see anything obviously underage either. Maybe I missed something.

Locker. Sent you an PM about some resoles......
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
Why is that inconceivable?

Because it's a very serious felony and would result in search and seizure of all his computers and digital media, arrest, and lengthly a prison term where inmates take a very dim view of convicted pedophiles, even if it's "merely" being in possession of (and distributing) child porn.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Legal?

Are not 99% of ALL the photos posted illegal per supertopo's rules?


Don't you have to OWN the photo to post it?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
Talk about a strokefest: this thread.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
"I didn't see anything obviously underage either. Maybe I missed something."

IHP has been quickly deleting the photos he posted. Wonder if its cause they may have looked underage?
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
I think copyright infringement is a different matter than distributing child porn, legally, Norton.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
seasonings for the sausage

On the advice of my doctor, since he said he couldn't do anything for my Bubonic Plague beyond what he's already done, I've been watching out takes from Groucho Marx' "You Bet Your Life.". That quote seems very pertinent.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
Serious question, who has been arguing about guns, politics, etc. since this erupted? Kinda weird eh?
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
Like I said, never underestimate the power of boobs.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Jeebus go find someone else to leg hump.
Your bitch boy Silver admitted to killing dogs and liking it.
I called him out on it by making a snide comment.
I didn't even know he had a daughter but his meltdown afterward was hilarious.
kthxsbye
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
I didn't see the pics of allegedly underaged girls, but then I didn't follow the thread as closely as some of you.

But if you see what you think may be child porn you should report it. It would NOT have gotten supertopo in trouble. For image links they will go to the site that is hosting the images on its server.

I doubt that the women in the images were underage, but if you think they were, why not let the proper authorities get to the bottom of it?

This link was on the FBI web site for reporting child exploitation: https://report.cybertip.org/index.htm;jsessionid=2EE90180EE8D043A767FA16E5C8E3DFF.report.cybertip.org

Edit: Even if there wasn't anyone underage in the pics, I still thought the thread should be removed. I didn't have a problem with it being up for a few days, but I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
I think copyright infringement is a different matter...

Indeed, completely separate issues. Most photos "posted" to Supertopo are "hotlinked" from some other site using the [img... shortcodes. In that case, the images do not reside on the Supertopo servers. There are no copyright implications for Supertopo.

If you upload pictures using the "photo" link in the reply form:



Those images do indeed reside on the Supertopo servers. You can tell the differences as the uploaded images have the Supertopo frame around them, like this:

Wildflowers - Lancaster CA, 2003
Wildflowers - Lancaster CA, 2003
Credit: froodish

In that case the user, by uploading agrees to the terms:

I own the rights to this image and confirm that it meets SuperTopo.com's standards. By clicking the button to Select Photo, I acknowledge that I have read and accept the Terms of Service.

Particularly, #3, #4 and #6.

OTOH, the posters that post the entire contents of articles (pretty common around here, often without even attributing the source) are most likely in violation of copyright law (a snippet with attribution and a link is fine, entire articles, no, unless the licensing terms of the material permit it which is unusual.)
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
I totally agree with Granite Climber. BIG TIME.

If that is the case, that is a NEW LOW for ST and very appalling. Like I said, I knew the thread would eventually get nuked but I was expecting over blue plugs and silly cut and past stuff. Nothing on this level and yes, that is dang shocking. No I will not support it.

Thanks Chris Mac for deleting it while I was gone and yes guys. Let it go... I surely am.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
but then I didn't follow the thread as closely as some of you.

Yeah, right...
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 25, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
Serious question, who has been arguing about guns, politics, etc. since this erupted? Kinda weird eh?

People just want to have something to argue about. If there isn't a thread that lets them do this, then they will start a new thread or pick an argument in an existing thread.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 25, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
I want to ask, why is it that people are blaming the entire thread, the person who started the thread, an everyone who posted on it for posts on that thread by one or two persons?

If you didn't like the entire thread, fine, but if your problem is a posts made on the thread by one or two people, get angry at them. Try to have their posts deleted if you think its appropriate. Don't blame everyone else.

If you don't like pictures of breasts being posted, then go ahead and attack everyone who posted pictures of breasts, but don't blame them for the pictures that you claim are of underage women.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
"Your bitch boy Silver admitted to killing dogs and liking it."

True?
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 25, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
I hate the blame game and drama making.

Yet I do see why some people went apes after those pictures. A few women I trust have emailed me over the issue and I believe them when they say the girls were underage. Women are good at being able to recognize such things. Guys I know you might think they were just small, but I trust women to "know" what they are talking about. I also will like to think that the person posting was unaware which is very possible. A guy can be naive too. If you think a bit about that, you know I'm right on that note too. I am not going to start witch hunting, making assumptions.

Everyone deserves the benefit of a doubt.

This is simply too bad all around.
Let's just let this die.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Jan 25, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
Goat, you're a douche. I still can't believe you are here after posting this crap! Much worse than some silly nukes!

I still can't believe they would ban Kovar and not you.



goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze

Sep 6, 2012 - 08:40am PT
Silver

Ice climber
OLPP

Sep 6, 2012 - 06:48am PT
I know a nice Hmong family who is looking for a dog.

And we know some gangbangers that would be interested in your daughter.

How many dogs have you killed for fun Silver?

Locker you posted right after i re-posted this! I haven't seen Silver around lately either but no one is lamenting his loss....
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 25, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
I saw some of IHP's photos with younger subjects topless, but not TR's nuke attack.

Regardless of the age of the subjects, what I saw was in no way a violation of federal child pornography law. In order to be in violation of (18 U.S.C. §2256) the subjects would have to be less than 18 AND engaged in depiction of "sexually explicit conduct".

Sexually explicit conduct is defined in the law as "actual or simulated sexual intercourse (including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex), bestiality, masturbation, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person."

IHP's images may have been inappropriate. They may have violated social norms. They may have offended some here on ST. They may have violated ST rules. They were not, however, illegal.

What was posted was not child pornography no matter the age of the subjects in the pictures.

The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website illuminates this topic at the following link.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?PageId=1504


Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
What was posted was not child pornography no matter the age of the subjects in the pictures.

So what if that girl who looked like she could be 14 really WAS 14?

How is that knott a crime?

Really?
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 25, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
Don't ask me. I didn't write the law. I'm not saying such a pic should be posted here, just that it's not a violation of federal law. Depictions of naked children are found throughout the visual arts, as well as in many family photos.

Whether naked children pictures are child pornography, or not, is not a function of who is offended but rather of the conduct depicted. If there is no sexual activity involved, and no lascivious display of the pubic area, then it's not child pornography.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
Well, obviously it's creepy and inappropriate, but hard to believe it's knott illegal.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
seriouser and seriouser

John M

climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
One nice thing about the taco, even though it gets harsh or weird at times, someone often comes up with some good information. Thanks dropline.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:13pm PT

"I knew you guys will get the thread nuked but I thought it would be over something like Locker's plugs, etc....



Hey now!!!...

Talk about going fuking OVERBOARD...

Leave my precious BLUE BUTT PLUGS the fuk OUT of this converastion please!!!...

NOT even an issue!!!...


;-)




Oops EDIT:

and I am fuking being SERIOUS because this is a SERIOUS thread!!!...



happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
I think (if underage) they key would be "lascivious exhibition."


hmmm...My picture uploader seems to be not working... I was going to show a screenshot of the dictionary.com listing. Maybe I have been hinted to cease and desist on the male erection images? Or maybe my computer is just acting the way it sometimes does. (and I promise, I won't post any more of those type pictures even if my photo loader does function later on, and apologize for doing the one I did.)

But the definition of Lacisious is

adjective
1.
inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd: a lascivious, girl-chasing old man.
2.
arousing sexual desire: lascivious photographs.
3.
indicating sexual interest or expressive of lust or lewdness: a lascivious gesture.


I think that the very last images I saw from IHP would definitely have fallen into that category.

Now I am wondering if I did miss the very last images, because though I thought the girls I saw might have been underage, I didn't think they were prepubescent. At any rate - those images are all gone from the pic section of that ST'er.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
It's not just lascivious exhibition but lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area.


locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:21pm PT

"I didn't even know he had a daughter but his meltdown afterward was hilarious."...

Makes sense...

;-)



happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
Oh - missed the genital/pubic area wording. Sorry about that.

Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
Locker's many past lascivious exhibitions of blue butt plugs have now come to mind and I am deeply deeply offended. Time for me to nuke this thread.

:-)
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:26pm PT


photo not found
Missing photo ID#286466
...


^^^
Can cause SERIOUS damage!!!...

The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
As intriguing as this thread is, I'm out.

I'm gonna go season some sausage.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
I thought it went without saying that breasts are not genitals. Thanks Toady for seriously making that point.

Locker......OUCH!!!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:44pm PT


...

LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:45pm PT
for anyone questioning, the photos themselves are the proof.
CPS and law enforcement has a long established policy and procedure for identifying and prosecuting child abuse and the use of children in pornography. Even the responses abusers make to being questioned about their activities have been codified, as an extraordinarily high percentage of abusers make the same responses.

The legal definition of "obscene" has been ruled on several times by the Supreme Court in response to child pornography. New York v Ferber 1982 being only one of the more known. It includes the photography of children naked for the purpose of economic gain and widens the definition of child pornography. It addresses the narrow definition of obscenity applied in Miller v California as inadequate to legally address the problem of child pornography.

"Boobgate" (somebody else ingeniously called it that)has been quite the disturbance, very personal, emotional, and an education to some. Might be time to find some balance and some peace.

Perhaps this situation has shown that as low or vile as some ST posters will become, there are many people here willing to speak out against it, and who cannot be intimidated by the noisy, vulgar few. Those people have my appreciation and gratitude.

John M

climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
Just a heads up.

I just received an email from someone who should be a bit more up on the law. They didn't want to post here, but they said what dropline posted isn't fully accurate. I didn't totally understand why.

I don't know. Just trying to get more information as I would like to understand this. heading out right now so can't study it.


Edit: lucky pink posted as I was writing.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:54pm PT


Since the beginning of time, to the end of time...

it will ALWAYS be as it was, is, and will be...



If it wasn't...

NONE of us would be here...

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 25, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
Well, Lucky Pink - I am glad to know that because I thought, after having Dropline's reiteration on pubic/genital area, "Well, if those girls WERE underage, then that is some god damned loophole there, having to show genitals to be considered child pornography."

Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 25, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
New York vs Ferber 1982 was about photographs of sexual activity, in this case two films of young boys masturbating. It doesn't address photographs of naked children not engaged in sexual activity.

LuckyPink said:

It includes the photography of children naked for the purpose of economic gain and widens the definition of child pornography.

Where does NY vs Ferber say this? Language directly from the Supreme Court ruling on NY vs Ferber states.

"A New York statute prohibits persons from knowingly promoting a sexual performance by a child under the age of 16 by distributing material which depicts such a performance. The statute defines "sexual performance" as any performance that includes sexual conduct by such a child, and "sexual conduct" is in turn defined as actual or simulated sexual intercourse, deviate sexual intercourse, sexual bestiality, masturbation, sado-masochistic abuse, or lewd exhibition of the genitals."

I'm just learning about this stuff too. But I've been reading the NY Times for 30 years and this stuff comes up from time to time in the paper. Bottom line, as I understand it, is display of breasts, no matter the age or gender, is not illegal.

If I'm wrong I'd love to read about it. I'll go back and edit/add to my posts referencing the court rulings that indicate I am mistaken.

NY vs Ferber is here:

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/comm/free_speech/ferber.html

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Jan 25, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
Wow, you Merricans get pretty upset about titties.

Up here in Canada, titties are legal - anywhere, any time, any age, any way.

On the beach, on the street, in the park.

I'm not saying you see titties everywhere, because you don't. {sigh} I'm just saying it ain't illegal to display them.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 25, 2013 - 07:09pm PT

"Bottom line, as I understand it, is display of breasts, no matter the age or gender, is not illegal."...



Ladies MUST shower fully clothed...

No wonder they're so pissed...

LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Jan 25, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
the free speech argument is often used in defending child abuse cases. It has been well documented and overridden numerous times in all the states and by the Supreme Court several times. Do your own research, dropline.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 25, 2013 - 07:26pm PT
It's nice to have the opportunity to learn some facts about this tangential and unpleasant subject, but you should back up your confident statements with some links if you want to be taken seriously, LP.

Show us the specific clause(s) in the legislation which you believe indict(s) the photos, for example.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 25, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
Lucky,

I'm doing my own research as carefully as I can. As near as I can tell, photographs of topless children not engaged in any kind of sexual activity are not defined as pornography in any law or court decision I can find.

Sexual activity of any kind and lascivious display of genitalia or pubic area meet the definition of pornography. That language shows up in a few places.

What I've stated is in line with the information on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. While not an official legal source, it seems likely they would have some very well versed legal eagles help them characterize what child pornography is and is not.

As well, I posted a link to NY Vs Ferber to support my understanding of the decision and the law.

What have you got, Lucky, to support your assertion that photographs of topless underage girls are pornographic or illegal?

I'm all ears. But the law isn't what you say it is, just because you say so.

Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 25, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
Lucky said:
It includes the photography of children naked for the purpose of economic gain and widens the definition of child pornography

I just went through NY vs Ferber more carefully, searching on "photo" and stopping to read the context each time "photo" was found.

Nowhere does it say, in any way shape or form, that photography of naked children, in and of itself, is pornographic.

But over and over again it describes pornographic behavior as "depictions of children performing sexual acts or lewdly exhibiting their genitals" in one variant or another.

No matter the age of the subjects in the pics IHP posted, unless they included depictions of sexual activity and/or lascivious exhibition of genitalia or pubic area, which I did not see, they were neither pornographic nor illegal.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 25, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
"Facts are stupid things"

-Ronald Reagan
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 25, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/651921/build-respect-for-your-user-name
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 25, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
I think some people forget that many people in America are still offended by nudity.
---


This is not an accurate statement or assessment unless you are talking about someone who grew up in a very repressive environment where they learned to be frightened or ashamed of Nature. "Modesty" is always balanced by the shadow side which is profligate and uncensored. Swing too far toward modestly, put too much "virtue" on righteousness and our more primitive instinctual energies will ALWAYS come out sideways - or that we may be sure.

Some people struggle with nudity because they feel fear and shame and so forth and in turn are outraged to have to endure these difficult feelings. When asked why they are "outraged," most people default into supposed moral or ethical arguments, usually with other issues like child porn and professionalism attached in order to bolster their argument.

Those struggling with tasteful nudity are generally terrified to come right out and say what they actually feel when looking at an image or a naked body on the beach, say. It can generate a spectacular medley of strong feelings in some, and is a real issue, as this thread attests. Because this is largely an involuntary and preverbal response, such people should be shown some consideration and understanding, and perhaps be encouraged to look deeper into the issue to gain new perspective. In my experience, all-or-nothing thinking is the root cause of most of these issues - and that's a tricky one to work with.

JL
John M

climber
Jan 25, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
Hey Largo, My family is from the south. There are a whole bunch of church people who are offended by nudity. Their numbers may be going down, but all that I have to do is go to Texas to find bunches of them. I don't even have to go that far, in California you still find bunches of them. I wouldn't be surprised if half the people in Oakhurst Ca, a mostly conservative town would say that public nudity was bad.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 25, 2013 - 09:05pm PT
There is nothing "wrong" with a naked human body

All the "wrong" stuff comes from human constructs and delusions
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:12am PT
It's not a big deal. There are no big deals.
Shh. Be still.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:42am PT
I'm playing CoD imaging I'm firing big blue butt plugs at my hated archrivals.

Email in 3.. 2.. 1...


Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:05am PT
Some of the best and worst moments of my life have involved nudity.

It's all about time, place, and manner.

Those of us whose age of consent was not respected are likely to be more concerned with the rights and well-being of the girls in the pictures who have been immortalized on the internet than we are with the old men who have obviously figured out how to appreciate the digital female form.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:06am PT
Hey, I heard you two were the same person....;-)
Is that serious?
John M

climber
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:08am PT
Or course they're serious. Its the serious thread ain't it?
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:09am PT
Totally. Wait a moment while I print my PhD :)
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:12am PT
I'll send you a copy of mine.

It's all the same.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:18am PT






Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:18am PT
Cool!
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:25am PT


locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:37am PT


So let me get this straight...


just so long as there is no NUDITY...(EDITED: Because nudity is offensive)...

























































...

^^^
Seriously strong couch...
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:43am PT
I really hate you.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:48am PT
What I think has been proven throughout this exercise, is that the people who hold the ideals of liberalism closest to their breast are the most conservative thinkers when faced with reality.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:49am PT


and for balance...


...

^^^
Seriously strong chair...
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:55am PT

"I really hate you."...



I'll take whatever I can get these days...

That's better than nothing!!!...

;-)

Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 26, 2013 - 02:12am PT
At least you provided the man hunk version. It's cool.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 26, 2013 - 02:18am PT



Dam.
I wish I had photoshop on this computer.

:(
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 26, 2013 - 02:33am PT
Roll her in flour to find the wet spot?
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Jan 26, 2013 - 02:34am PT
Building for a more, SERIOUS SUPERTOPO, one POST at a time!
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 26, 2013 - 02:37am PT
Roll her in flour to find the wet spot?

Is that legal?
snowhazed

Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
Jan 26, 2013 - 02:40am PT
just pick a fold
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 26, 2013 - 02:44am PT
Eewwww.

I'm offended!!!!!!!!!1111
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 26, 2013 - 03:12am PT
and for balance...

Did you mean "balance" or "ballast"?
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 26, 2013 - 04:16am PT
Not that it matters much but just for the record, I love this place. I love the climbing content and those who post it. I love the OT posts, whether I agree with the content or not, because they show a slice of life that I might otherwise be unaware of. I love the dialogue even though it can get robustly stupid at times in some of the threads. I love the fact that this site remains touched deftly by moderator hands.

Take from it what you will. Don't be stupid, mean, or an attention whore. Talk. Convey. Read. Learn.

I love this place. Thanks CMac for providing this playground for words, thoughts, ideas .. .. . . .a community.

And I'm being serious so it fits with this thread.

Cheers.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 26, 2013 - 06:59am PT
Less seriousness, more Zappa.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#286521
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 26, 2013 - 07:03am PT
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 26, 2013 - 11:22am PT
It's all fun and games until somebody is forced into prostitution!(insert smile face icon)

Credit: happiegrrrl
Link: http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020191128_apwasextraffickingsentence.html

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 26, 2013 - 11:32am PT
@ Salma Hayek

I love curvy women.

Seriously.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 11:33am PT



"It's all fun and games until somebody is forced into prostitution"...

So it's gone from the "Boob" thread to prostitution???...


EDITED:

This is...

SERIOUS...




philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 26, 2013 - 11:36am PT
On a positive note I will be running ST forum side bar ads for my new business.
Burkha, Habit and Shroud r Us. Free Glock 9mm semis for the first 100 customers.
And I promise nary a boob in sight.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#285595
photo not found
Missing photo ID#280401

dirtbag

climber
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
I still like looking at boobies. Am I a bad person?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
Yes. But a thousand round penance at the target range should set you right.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Frank Zappa just don't take this sh#t seriously




happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
Just providing balance, Locker. Not unlike your images of the obese man and woman. Well, actually unlike that quite a bit, but there's nothing wrong with dialog(which is why I posted the link), is there?

Interesting to note that you chose an image of a woman which is a provocatively styled shot, and the male, balancing act, is not. Or aren't you aware that the female image you posted would be seen as sexually enticing to a cross section of people, and definitely money in the spank bank for the type who likes that?

And Philo, I think you really need to find some new material. We've all gotten the "joke" you've been making with that set of images. It's like you're at a party and keep telling the same knock, knock joke over and over....

And Dirtbag, just for clarity - I have never said liking booby pictures is "bad," I didn't see many of the images posted on that thread as "bad." My upset is over the intimidation/minimizing tactics deployed on anyone who doesn't see the aforementioned thread as the best thing since sliced bread that seem so prevalent in this thread.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:43pm PT

"and the male, balancing act, is not."...


GOOGLE for yourself and let me know when you find a photo of some fat fuk dude posing in a sexual way...

Why do I have to do ALL the work???...

;-)



EDITED:

And I actually think I NAILED it...

Lady is POSING like a WOMAN...

Man is in front of computer (Probably viewing PORN)...

Or at least that was where I figured my posts would lead...

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
It's actually not difficult to find, if one wanted to.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:46pm PT


"Interesting to note that you chose"...



Was it REALLY that interesting???...

Somehow I doubt it...

;-)



locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:50pm PT

"It's actually not difficult to find, if one wanted to."...

So you say...

How about posting one for PROOF???...

I actually LOOKED first for a similar one of some fat fuk dude and COULDN'T find a single one...

So PLEASE...

Find one and if you are affraid to post it...

Email it to me, and I WILL!!!...


THANKS!!!...




PS...

You THINKING I chose like I did for the reasons you have planted in your head is INCORRECT...

But that's OK...

Easy mistake...





SERIOUS EDIT:

I HIT the 420 post...

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
Now that is serious.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:58pm PT


That's because this IS a SERIOUS thread...

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 26, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
Worshiping at the temple :




locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
^^^

THERE you go Happie!!!...

Now you can view it and masturbate like we do to the "Boob" shots...

Have fun!!!...



EDITED:

Hell!!!...

That dude's kinda cute and I may take a shot at it also...

;-)





MastUrbate correcting EDIT:


I never did learn how to spell or do it right...



apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
'masturbate'
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
Well, Locker - I will not post an image. But I did Google "arrousing image of obese men " and then go through to the images version, and see one in the 3rd row of images. Not as well styled as your ladies image, but the intent is there nonetheless.

But, it was just something that I happened to think, when I saw your post. Not really THAT serious, especially in comparison to some of the other things which have come up in this thread.

And update(after the Elvis type image)- Locker, please don't minimize my input on this topic. While it may be very funny to some, and others are just goofing around because they are bored and unable to get out more(which I am guessing is why you post the way you do, as you have mentioned some health issues), I think I have been pretty clear that I don't think this is all a lark. To make fun of me, even in a light-hearted way(which I do believe is your intent), is actually inappropriate.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:19pm PT


"But I did Google "arrousing image of obese men " and then go through to the images version, and see one in the 3rd row of images. Not as well styled as your ladies image, but the intent is there nonetheless."...


On GOOGLE, it's all about the wording...

But I am sure that you noticed how FEW there are in comparrison...

And there is GOOD reason for that...

Men "Chase" woman...

NOT the other way around generally...

INSTINCTS remain...





As far as taking this SERIOUSLY???...

Well of course!!!...

THIS is a "Serious matter"...



apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
'arousing'
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
You know. Rita Hayworth had some big breasts.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:26pm PT

'arousing'...


Sh!t!!!...

Did I make yet ANOTHER grammatic error???...

Or did someone else make the BLUNDER???...




EDITED:

THIS is becoming a SERIOUS MATTER...






FOUND IT EDIT!!!:

I was SERIOUSLY affraid that I had made the mistake and now see that it was Happie...

Fewwwwwwwwwwwwww that was close!!!...


SERIOUSLY CLOSE!!!...

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:33pm PT





If SOME are still having SERIOUS issues concerning stuff like this...

I SERIOUSLY suggest that THIS is NOT the place to deal with them...

Some SERIOUS counseling MIGHT be in order...



Because it is NOT that SERIOUS here, on SuperTopo...

If it is to you, you're SERIOUSLY fuked up!!!...









Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Apogee = Websters?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
Goatboismellz wrote:
Jeebus go find someone else to leg hump.
Your bitch boy Silver admitted to killing dogs and liking it.
I called him out on it by making a snide comment.
I didn't even know he had a daughter but his meltdown afterward was hilarious.
kthxsbye


Thanks, but last thing I'd do is honor the requests of a classless POS like you've shown yourself. I make plenty of snide comments without implying gang rape on somebody's daughter. It's pretty easy, actually. Maybe not if that's what you like to think about though.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
'Websters?'
^^^
Only when it's.......













































Serious.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 03:36pm PT



SERIOUS BUMP!!!...


Anyone with any SERIOUS Psych issues, just post all your SH!T here and SuperTopo will sort it out for you...



happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 26, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
Yes, I misspelled. Luckily, Google has some built in AI and searched using the correct spelling.


If SOME are still having SERIOUS issues concerning stuff like this...

I SERIOUSLY suggest that THIS is NOT the place to deal with them...


I'm not dealing with "my" personal issues on this thread. I am well aware what they are, have been working on them since at least the age of 13, and have found it is a lifelong process.

I am providing a viewpoint in this thread that apparently makes some people here uncomfortable. I don't mean you specifically, Locker, but to post what I quoted above is an attempt to silence those speaking out. You do realize that, don't you? That sort of manipulation comes in many levels, from fairly innocuous to flat out mental abuse. It's probably not a style you would consciously want to take.

For what it's worth, I have received more than a few private correspondences on what I have been posting, and there is support for my words. Not everyone is as willing and able to stand up against a crowd, but it happens to be one of the unintended consequences which resulted from my having "serious issues."
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 03:45pm PT

RE-EDITED for THIS:

"I don't mean you specifically, Locker"...

Well that's GOOD...

Because in ALL honesty, I pretty much AGREE with a lot of what you have been writing...




EDITED:

For what it's worth...

my fuking email mailbox has been FULL as sh!t with people here AGREEING with me...

But honestly...

SO THE FUK WHAT!!!...

;-)

TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jan 26, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Raquel Welch had some fine white floaters as well.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 26, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
Locker, this is so serious that people are emailing you?

Woo-freaking-hoo!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 04:23pm PT


"Locker, this is so serious that people are emailing you?"...


NOT this thread in particular...

ALL the BS started by t*r and the "BOOB" thread and the sh!t that has followed (Such as this thread)...


And I take it ALL, very SERIOUSLY!!!...

I am a SERIOUS man...

Just ask ANYONE...

;-)

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 26, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
Melissa wrote: Those of us whose age of consent was not respected are likely to be more concerned with the rights and well-being of the girls in the pictures who have been immortalized on the internet than we are with the old men who have obviously figured out how to appreciate the digital female form.

I would hazard to say that most of us men, young and old and in between, never had to "figure out" how to appreciate the female form. It's a natural reaction for which our survival owes the pleasure. However, her earlier sentence touches on what I mentioned earlier - strong reactions usually denote a history of sorts, often untoward, so sensitivity is indicated. It's mostly about the involuntary associations that accrue to a person, place or thing which determines our views; and everyone's past is not a glorious sunset. That's why a seemingly benign thread about a body part can trigger a Gorilla Monsoon of guff and emotional arcing.

JL
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 26, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
There are seriously a lot of boobs on this thread.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Jan 26, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 05:08pm PT


^^^

Clinton is a crack up...

Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Jan 26, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
Largo...I know you and most men and many women too didn't need to learn to appreciate the female form. Finding pictures of boobies on the internet in order to be able to appreciate them is what I was saying folks have learned.

I'm not sensitive about men lusting after boobs. I'm sensitive about men lusting after children....which is what was reported by someone I trust (LuckyPink) to have been present.

Honestly, I don't play for the boob-loving team, so I hadn't been keeping tabs on the thread and had no idea what happened until all of DRAMAONTHEBOOBTHREAD new thread titles started appearing...and I admit curiosity got the best of me.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 26, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
I'm sensitive about men lusting after children....which is what was reported by someone I trust (LuckyPink) to have been present.

When confronted to prove the models were underage, LP balked. When confronted about her personal definition of porn vs the legal one, she balked again.

Plus, you're taking it a step further to say men were "lusting after children" - you don't know they were children, and you don't know what reactions anyone else had to the photos.

Your imagination might be running a little wild, sister

Just the facts ma'am - if you're gonna call it a crime.



bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 26, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
File under: Misinformed Reactionary. Footnotes should include Contempt Prior To Investigation.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Jan 26, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
On "THE" thread I saw photos of women who looked young, on purpose.
That sh!t is creepy but, unfortunately, legal.
To me, a kink stops being a kink when it goes there-
the sexualizing of girls and the whole "barely legal" thing.

It's not porn but it is f*#king creepy and I can see where people would be offended and even angry.

I was happy with fully clothed women with amazing breasts of all shapes and sizes.
And boobs ain't even my kink!

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jan 26, 2013 - 09:03pm PT

A hypothetical question...

If a court could agree that a particular image suggests or invites taking
advantage of naivete'...the corrupting of innocence...or exploiting the trusting...

Should a model's 18 year certification validate and elevate the depiction above debauchery ??
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 26, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
Yeah, courts love words like 'should'.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 26, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
What jefe said.
Leggs

Sport climber
Home away from Home
Jan 26, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Riley, I've read your posts on this thread and I have to say...

You're ridiculous, and hypocritical.
You drag t*r through the mud, then state you "like" her.

Damn disgusting.
Do you want to spray some more about getting boob photos, or would you like to talk about your "marriage/separation" during that time period??

Let me know. Until then, stop acting like the saint you are not.


~Leggs

Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 26, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
Looks like us bitches are up in the house.


So I must say, after laughing mightily at all this, how interesting it is that women get called upon to bear the burden of proof and to justify concretely their position and men just get to say, "It's our nature, get over it." A lot of semantic nit picking. Yawn. Let's just roll up our vaginas and vacate this thread to the righteous boobs. And I don't mean breasts.

:)
Leggs

Sport climber
Home away from Home
Jan 26, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
^^^ amen, Michelle.

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:09pm PT


I would love to have sex with Nicole Kidman...



EDITED:

I am serious...




Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
And now a musical interlude that includes boys and girls and a LOT of harmony:

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:24pm PT


Let's continue that break...

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
not sure if this is serious enough, I'll have to defer to the court

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
...how interesting it is that women get called upon to bear the burden of proof and to justify concretely their position and men just get to say, "It's our nature, get over it."


If a person, even a woman, accuses somebody of a crime, like distributing underage porn, she should bear the burden of proof to justify her charge. This is America - innocence 'til proven guilty, first amendment and all that.

Don't get me wrong - I personally have zero desire to look at partially naked women who look underage or especially those who are underage. I'm just defending the principles of freedom of speech, and the rule of law, and calling bullshit on whoever, male or female, imposes their morality on others coupled with unsupported libelous accusations of what amounts to criminal activity.

I get why women are angry about it, but morphing that anger into false accusations isn't the way to deal with it.

The thread's gone - your will has prevailed ...





Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Jan 26, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
Jim Brennan!
Route 66 and Diana Krall Trio.
Dyno-Mite!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 26, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
Sorry, the vagina's all rolled up.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:45am PT
"Sorry, the vagina's all rolled up. "

I have no witty rejoinder here Michelle.....I suspect that my mouth is dropped open and my brow is in a confused frown.


Considering it....


OK, all I got is that I would prefer not to see anyone start a new thread with pictures of this "Vagina roll up" trick you have. The discussion after the thread in question threads (I think there were 3 or 4 threads started complaining about it being taken down, posted on or put up) appears to be exhausting to all and the "discussing" *cough*argueing*cough* is heading to well over post 400 on this one and no let up. Thank you and BTW, The Warblers right.

I'd like us all to treat each other with more respect, regardless of sex or age, but this being the internet and all, won't happen in my life time.

Take care all.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:54am PT

...

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:58am PT
I have no witty rejoinder here Michelle

I have about ten, but I don't wanna start a pussy riot, so I'll hold my tongue

And thanks for backin' me up, couchmaster


And I'm all about the Johnny Winter, LOCKER
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 27, 2013 - 01:07am PT


...

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 27, 2013 - 01:14am PT
Some girls roll it up

^^^Some roll it out^^^
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 27, 2013 - 01:31am PT
Wrong Riley but this is what young men think:



And this is what old men think:

graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jan 27, 2013 - 02:01am PT
This is very serious.



http://www.livescience.com/23500-why-men-love-breasts.html
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Jan 27, 2013 - 02:27am PT
When confronted to prove the models were underage, LP balked. When confronted about her personal definition of porn vs the legal one, she balked again.
No balking here, you old goat!
been out having a great time not anywhere near a computer!
I'll get back to you about the history of legislation re child abuse when I have some time for you. You can start by researching the PROTECT Act. and it's reinstatement by the Supreme Court in 2008, and the various state statues that result from it, and the various attempts to use the first amendment to defend abusers in court. What has changed in CPS protocol in the last 10 years etc etc etc....
legal definitions of obscenity, pornography, child, molestation, etc etc etc
it's a hard subject to delve into.

we can have a long conversation about it ... but fer chrissakes don't you get the point YET?!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 27, 2013 - 02:37am PT
If your point was based on the Boob thread and it's contents, the "youths" on display were legally exploited because they were of age and presumably gave consent. ( at least according to I Hate Plastic)

Through the prism of middle age the seemingly creepy pics did indeed seem creepy but only in context to the age of the subjects and the age of the viewers.

That's the issue and once again, prepubescent means before puberty, not during or immediately after. There were no pictures of children posted.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 27, 2013 - 02:41am PT
Lucky, it looks like you are upset.

But, are you SERIOUS?

;)

Toadgas, it LOOKS like they are post puberty. SERIOUSLY.
dirtbag<