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Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 27, 2013 - 02:37am PT
If your point was based on the Boob thread and it's contents, the "youths" on display were legally exploited because they were of age and presumably gave consent. ( at least according to I Hate Plastic)

Through the prism of middle age the seemingly creepy pics did indeed seem creepy but only in context to the age of the subjects and the age of the viewers.

That's the issue and once again, prepubescent means before puberty, not during or immediately after. There were no pictures of children posted.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 27, 2013 - 02:41am PT
Lucky, it looks like you are upset.

But, are you SERIOUS?

;)

Toadgas, it LOOKS like they are post puberty. SERIOUSLY.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 10:14am PT
THANK YOU, TOADGAS
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 27, 2013 - 11:03am PT
I'll say it again:

Good lord, get out of Berkeley and the Gender Studies department once in a while.

See the world.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 27, 2013 - 11:30am PT
And on it continues, with take-down attempts at minimizing, taunting and flagrant as#@&%e behavior of "You're making a serious discussion? Here -let me throw in a shot of chicks having (photo-simulated) sex, to keep the creeps rallied and interested."


Jim Brennen is polite and makes his points without resorting to cheap tactics, but I do find his claim of "no prepubescent" as interesting. I believe that puberty in females is defined as commencing with the onset of the first menstruation. How can anyone here "know" those girls in the images at question had passed this stage in life?

Someone had claimed earlier that they backtracked the images, and came to model release disclosure information on the site. They did not provide links to that information. I wonder whether such a link on a website featuring images of young-in-appearance subjects in sexualized scenes is any more that a simple "stamp of authority" put up in case someone comes across the images, questions the legality so that they see this disclaimer and go "Okay, all good to go."

Would it be possible for that person to post the link to that web page? That would be beneficial, in my view.

I would also be interested in seeing those images "in context" to the site from which they came, out of curiosity. Were those the least suggestive images from the site? Were they the "front" images for a gateway to something else? Just wondering.


On another point, Largo wrote:

earlier sentence touches on what I mentioned earlier - strong reactions usually denote a history of sorts, often untoward, so sensitivity is indicated. It's mostly about the involuntary associations that accrue to a person, place or thing which determines our views; and everyone's past is not a glorious sunset. That's why a seemingly benign thread about a body part can trigger a Gorilla Monsoon of guff and emotional arcing.


Originally I thought he was suggesting people might consider being sensitive to others, considering the possibility that these images were upsetting for a very ugly reason, and one which most men here would loudly rail against if asked their opinion on sexual abuse.

But now I wonder if he wasn't just saying "Those expressing discomfort/upset are more sensitive because they were abused."


If the former - it goes worth saying that it has been well documented that at least 1 in 4 women in the US has been manipulated or forced into sex by the time she was 18 years of age. Personally, I think it is more than one in four. I'm not really even 100% sure I have ever met a woman who hasn't experienced that(though I certainly don't want any women I know of to believe that I look at them and think "probably has been." It's just an awareness that came to my mind as I was typing just now).

I don't mean to suggest anyone ought to "disclose" their freedom from being sexually abused as a minor, but I am pretty sure, in all the discussions I have had over the years, that I have never had a woman say they had made it to 18 without being molested.

I've seem plenty get uncomfortable in being part of a discussion of the matter, others listen silently and express sympathy with a look of fear in their eyes, others who tell me they don't remember many years of their childhood, including one who cannot recall ANYTHING between the years of 10 to 14), which can be an indication of trauma.


At any rate - if you KNOW that at least SOME of the women in this forum have had that trauma, is it too much to ask to behave with a modicum of respect? At least stop the taunting, trivializing, and gang-mentality intimidation baloney.

If the latter - yes. For me, at least, body memories are a "sensitivity issue" I experience(I assume most here know, or do now, that I am one of the "1 in 4" women). It was not the images in that thread that triggered them in me, but a post made by one person, intended to taunt t*r, and the subsequent(though small) gang pile-on in support, and the intimidation/minimization tactics that have been deployed against people in the various related threads. It probably comes from having my 8 year old sister come to me, as a nine year old, seeking help; disclosing that she had been forced to perform fellatio on a grown man. When I declared the action we'd take - what to me was the obvious thing to do (go to our mother) - she told me that he had "explained" how her mother wouldn't understand, would be jealous of her and might hate her out of that jealously. At least so long as she was alive. Because the knowledge of "their secret" would break her mother's heart, and that her mother would die from that heartbreak.

And for those who would suggest I seek professional help, believe me when I tell you I have been through quite a bit of it and have made extraordinary progress. That I am here telling you this small fraction of my story is one testament to that. To tell me "seek help" is nice - but in some cases I know what is actually going on with that suggestion. The person is uncomfortable with a woman who won't shut her mouth when politely asked, or the person is feeling discomfort themselves - which is their business and not mine.

Thank you to those who have refrained from hurling at me some of the sh#t they seem to have no problem hurling at others. But I must remind you - those men and women are "my sisters and brothers" and I will not let you shut us up.





bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 27, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Ladies (and Gentlemen), we may not all agree on every fine point of this but I think it is vital we all continue to speak truth to power.

Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Ladies and Gentlemen, we may not all agree on every fine point of this but I think it is vital we all continue to speak truth to power.

Knew that's what you meant. Fixed it for you, bvb. Wish the rest was as easy to fix.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
Not as on point vis-a-vis the dysfuntional gender politics we are enduring here, but Neil Young is always apropos!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:15pm PT


JUST general information:

http://storylineblog.com/2012/03/09/are-you-playing-the-victim-without-knowing-it/
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
Thank you Riley.

I have to remember to ALWAYS start a day with a positive tune.

Recommended!
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
And on it continues, with take-down attempts at minimizing, taunting and flagrant as#@&%e behavior of "You're making a serious discussion? Here -let me throw in a shot of chicks having (photo-simulated) sex, to keep the creeps rallied and interested."


Jim Brennen is polite and makes his points without resorting to cheap tactics, but I do find his claim of "no prepubescent" as interesting. I believe that puberty in females is defined as commencing with the onset of the first menstruation. How can anyone here "know" those girls in the images at question had passed this stage in life?

Someone had claimed earlier that they backtracked the images, and came to model release disclosure information on the site. They did not provide links to that information. I wonder whether such a link on a website featuring images of young-in-appearance subjects in sexualized scenes is any more that a simple "stamp of authority" put up in case someone comes across the images, questions the legality so that they see this disclaimer and go "Okay, all good to go."

Would it be possible for that person to post the link to that web page? That would be beneficial, in my view.

I would also be interested in seeing those images "in context" to the site from which they came, out of curiosity. Were those the least suggestive images from the site? Were they the "front" images for a gateway to something else? Just wondering.


On another point, Largo wrote:

earlier sentence touches on what I mentioned earlier - strong reactions usually denote a history of sorts, often untoward, so sensitivity is indicated. It's mostly about the involuntary associations that accrue to a person, place or thing which determines our views; and everyone's past is not a glorious sunset. That's why a seemingly benign thread about a body part can trigger a Gorilla Monsoon of guff and emotional arcing.


Originally I thought he was suggesting people might consider being sensitive to others, considering the possibility that these images were upsetting for a very ugly reason, and one which most men here would loudly rail against if asked their opinion on sexual abuse.

But now I wonder if he wasn't just saying "Those expressing discomfort/upset are more sensitive because they were abused."


If the former - it goes worth saying that it has been well documented that at least 1 in 4 women in the US has been manipulated or forced into sex by the time she was 18 years of age. Personally, I think it is more than one in four. I'm not really even 100% sure I have ever met a woman who hasn't experienced that(though I certainly don't want any women I know of to believe that I look at them and think "probably has been." It's just an awareness that came to my mind as I was typing just now).

I don't mean to suggest anyone ought to "disclose" their freedom from being sexually abused as a minor, but I am pretty sure, in all the discussions I have had over the years, that I have never had a woman say they had made it to 18 without being molested.

I've seem plenty get uncomfortable in being part of a discussion of the matter, others listen silently and express sympathy with a look of fear in their eyes, others who tell me they don't remember many years of their childhood, including one who cannot recall ANYTHING between the years of 10 to 14), which can be an indication of trauma.


At any rate - if you KNOW that at least SOME of the women in this forum have had that trauma, is it too much to ask to behave with a modicum of respect? At least stop the taunting, trivializing, and gang-mentality intimidation baloney.

If the latter - yes. For me, at least, body memories are a "sensitivity issue" I experience(I assume most here know, or do now, that I am one of the "1 in 4" women). It was not the images in that thread that triggered them in me, but a post made by one person, intended to taunt t*r, and the subsequent(though small) gang pile-on in support, and the intimidation/minimization tactics that have been deployed against people in the various related threads. It probably comes from having my 8 year old sister come to me, as a nine year old, seeking help; disclosing that she had been forced to perform fellatio on a grown man. When I declared the action we'd take - what to me was the obvious thing to do (go to our mother) - she told me that he had "explained" how her mother wouldn't understand, would be jealous of her and might hate her out of that jealously. At least so long as she was alive. Because the knowledge of "their secret" would break her mother's heart, and that her mother would die from that heartbreak.

And for those who would suggest I seek professional help, believe me when I tell you I have been through quite a bit of it and have made extraordinary progress. That I am here telling you this small fraction of my story is one testament to that. To tell me "seek help" is nice - but in some cases I know what is actually going on with that suggestion. The person is uncomfortable with a woman who won't shut her mouth when politely asked, or the person is feeling discomfort themselves - which is their business and not mine.

Thank you to those who have refrained from hurling at me some of the sh#t they seem to have no problem hurling at others. But I must remind you - those men and women are "my sisters and brothers" and I will not let you shut us up.

Bravo!

All the vermin's here need to read this instead of jerking off.

She captures the nuances of female sexuality very well and WHY it is a very sensitive subject and the fact that female sexuality is so very little understood even to this day.


locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:30pm PT



"read this instead of jerking off"...


I just read it while I was "jerking off"...


MUCH more enjoyable!!!...
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
ALL TIME smart ass remark there LOCKER!

locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:50pm PT


"ALL TIME smart ass remark there LOCKER!"...



I was being SERIOUS...
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
nuances of female sexuality


WTF? No one ever mentioned *that* in PE.
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
careful boys, its that cocky attitude that was and still is one of the main problems in past sex threads and this current thread according to happiegirl
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 27, 2013 - 12:56pm PT


"All the vermin's here"...

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Jan 27, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
Exemplary post Happiegirl...one of the most germane I've seen on the web. Thanks for expending the effort in face of a hard-boiled crowd.

The last wheel fell off the boobie wagon days before the "innocent Jill" images were posted. I wouldn't single out IHP as cad when many posted photos with an exploitive implication.

...I have doubts most here will "get it". Most of the assemblage seems to think the complaint is against nudity or exhibiting certain body parts, rather than moral insinuations and social consequences of how genders are portrayed relative to one another in some of these depictions. Art or photography can be obscene without ANY nudity if it glorifies dominion and control over others, slavery, imperious violence, dehumanization, exploitation etc.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Jan 27, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
Regarding the psych links, as they pertain to me(not suggesting anyone is suggesting they do, but in general we human do think subsequent posts on the internet are "about us" as a natural response, even at times when they are not):

To the "unconscious victim" one, I am no victim. I am a warrior.

Regarding what I assume are descriptives on personality disorders: I have been to the shrink, and I have been in women's workshops led by professionals in the field. I'm aware of each of those, and don't fall into the categories. That's not my self-diagnosis, by the way.

But, I am curious - May I ask for clarification from those who posted them as to their reasoning behind suggesting others ought to review that information?
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jan 27, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
Messages 441 - 460 of total 792 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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