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Messages 41 - 60 of total 85 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Feb 1, 2013 - 02:59am PT
oh, so now you're saying that there is a community? a commonality of ideas here?

why do you think I'm ratting you out? persecution complex? I'm just saying people make choices, people make the SuperTopoForum, if they decide it's no longer for them, they move on... some of those people I valued having the opportunity to interact with in this community and now they've decided it isn't worth it because of the recent tone, a tone that you help to set.

You notice, or perhaps you choose not to, that I try to address your arguments. Your last post seems to be venturing into some strange space... you are accusing me of being ideological, and of an ideology in disagreement with your own, and to justify the validity of your stance.

That is not what I have been saying.

What I have been saying, perhaps more simply, is that the SuperTopoForum is a community of climbers who have been interacting together for about a decade. The popularity of the forum has attracted a lot of participants. The tone of the Forum, perhaps reflecting the tone of the nation as a whole, has become rather negative especially when discussing non-climbing issues.

That negative tone has lead many long time members of the community to leave, at a loss to the community in my opinion. You have had a role in this.

You can deny it, you can deny it is important, you can deny that you have exceeded the boundaries of "pedestrian society," but you cannot deny the truth that people have left, at least in part, because of what you contribute and the tone you set while contributing.

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 1, 2013 - 05:33am PT
I agree Dirtbag, what is this thread about?


Ed, why waste any time with Donald, he probably suffers from the DTs.


Chaz, love the GI Joe pic.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Feb 1, 2013 - 08:55am PT
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

Ed: He's not worth your time.





Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:08am PT
Furthermore I expect you to be diligent in that regard in future -out of evenhandedness, if for not other reason.

So, Donald, what is your best post to this Forum? what if you decided to take it down? what would be lost? You have set yourself up as some sort of referee to ensure that the STForum is "fair and balanced" when none was needed.

You have contributed only incidentally to the climbing content.

As you point out, there is no requirements for participation, your demand for "evenhandedness" is silly and self serving. Where I have engaged in debate with others on a large number of topics, I have sought to be respectful even when I strongly disagree, and let the argument of the point be the topic, rather than the person, even when I suspect the posts were intended to be personal.

You don't seem to have a capacity to rise above the personal, and seem to actually revel in wallowing in that.

If you have important points to make, you should try to make them in a civil manner without resort to name calling and all that, even in the face of it by your supposed opponents, that is what I would expect of you... perhaps you should even try to be respectful.

...though not a requirement certainly. However, my main recourse when discovering a "buggy" place is to avoid it in the future, I cannot eliminate the world of bugs.

As for the others, well you might see what they contribute along the lines of the general topical area covered by SuperTopo Forum, which is associated with a series of guidebooks describing climbs in areas throughout the western US and Alaska...

Not that I need to justify my choice of who I'd reprimand for intransigent behavior, those who post in the spirit of climbing their climbing experiences are worthy of some degree of leniency in their choice of topics.

Why is that so?

Because they give something to the climbing community here, they participate and have interesting and important things to say about climbing... they earn the right to mouth off about some other stuff because the bring it on the important, central topic of our reason for being here: climbing.

You don't bring anything to the table in that regard. And it is not that your own viewpoint is abhorrent to the threads you choose to post to, your manner of delivery can be.

In my view, nothing would be lost if you ceased to post on SuperTopoForum, especially in the manner that you choose to post in.

If you would like to explore this further, offer up your most proud thread and wonder what would happen if it were eliminated, would it detract from the quality of the Forum?

Here are two that I have created over the years that took a lot of personal time to realize:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=268647

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=28891

which I have real trouble imagining eliminating if I were to leave on account of people like you.

What are your proud posts?
Gilroy

Social climber
Bolderado
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:30am PT
Muchas gracias, Senor Hartouni, for focusing on improving the community.

Always.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:35am PT
Too bad you couldn't sell a few million more on being as blind as you Don.....

Better luck next time loser.



Credit: survival
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:36am PT
Thank You CMac for lancing that unsightly boil.
And a most appreciative thank you to the good Dr, Hartouni for providing the logic for that lancing.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:39am PT

"If you have important points to make, you should try to make them in a civil manner without resort to name calling and all that, even in the face of it by your supposed opponents, that is what I would expect of you... perhaps you should even try to be respectful."




YOU Philo,, might try re-reading this a few times over.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:42am PT
Watch out, Ron.
The Ban Bus is getting Full.

:)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:45am PT
Ron is a big fan of Don.

But Ron seems to have a better sense of humor.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:47am PT
Ron.... good point.

So it seems like if someone dosen't tow the party line...

They get jumped on ... by a gang of ST posters

Pretty sad

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:54am PT
Interesting.

I know that DT could get the resident political shriekers riled up, but then, they can be fairly nasty themselves, so as long as it was all kept to the "Republicans wrong" trainwreck, who cares.

But he (and some of them) just can't keep it there, among themselves, and I think that's probably what got him booted. A pretty good example is the thread a couple of days ago, in which some of Mighty Hiker's friends were expressing worry that he might not be okay. There was some light-hearted banter, but it was obviously a matter of real concern.

Then, in stomped DT and jhedge, caring nothing at all about either Anders or those of us who were worried about him. They took over the thread, as they have done on other threads, focused soley on calling each other out. Now, I suppose it can be kind of funny watching two as#@&%es argue about which of them is the bigger as#@&%e, but that's what the "Republicans wrong" thread is for.

I don't know if that is why he got tossed this morning, but it is a good a reason as any, and I hope it acts as a warning light to others.

I don't care if a poster here is a climber or not. If s/he makes a net positive impact, then s/he can shriek all day and all night at other like-minded folk on the "Who's the biggest as#@&%e" thread. But to spill that kind of behavior into the rest of the conversations here is a good reason for loss of posting privileges. Are you listening jhedge? Philo? et al? Unleash your anger at one another on the appropriate thread, but when you join the rest of us outside that thread, show respect for the people you're sharing this stupid place with.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:54am PT
I dont really understand this banning stuff- as ive only seen one or two instances where it was truly required. I dont know whos on first or whats on second. Sometimes i think im still here only by the fact that us non-libs are very rare here, so they leave a few of us around just fer targets.;^) Surely it is something to that affect and knott my grainy shytty ol but shots from ancient times.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:54am PT
YOU Philo,, might try re-reading this a few times over.

Ron you are most correct. I have been rude on the forum, very rude indeed. In fact I may at times have been one of the rudest SOBs on the forum. But only to those few who i deemed had earned my most un-decorous behavior through their recalcitrant ignorance in the face of repeatedly and respectfully presented facts. I have hurled some major loads at you in the past. But then again on more than one occasion you and I have agreed on a thread and treated each other most respectfully.
That is not an uncommon theme amongst Taco posters and is one of the things that makes SuperTopo so rich and rewarding. Cheers to all and I am sorry if i pissed any one off too much.


I humbly suggest that most of what i post be viewed with a tongue in cheek perspective and the understanding that I am all but incapable of avoiding puns and word play.


Mr Hartouni sir, I salute you!
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Feb 1, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
DT would consistently inject bitter, and often racist, political posts into the most benign of threads.

Example: Survival's "Color of My Country" was a nice expression of positive vibes that many of us enjoyed, until DT started spewing left/right political crap.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 1, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
TMJesse asked:
"I'll let the thread speak for itself; no documentation needed. Who said who was a racist? Are you reading something I am not?"

Now I'm confused. You pulled the racist card. Did you not? The OP had posted a pic of the President with a squirel in front of him, Right underneath, you posted a pic of what appears to be a group of southern crackers with the statement: "Go get you some for dinner, ehh?". Then your next post said: "I prefer racism to show itself rather than hide from all of us. Thanks. Good job." Clearly you are calling...probably Donald Thompson, a racist. You said:
"I prefer racism to show itself rather than hide from all of us. Thanks. Good job."

Now you add: "Who said who was a racist? Are you reading something I am not?".

Did you walk away from a computer you were logged into Jesse? I'm just going by what you wrote. Can you copy paste the post that made you say - "I prefer racism to show itself rather than hide from all of us. Thanks. Good job." I didn't see it, then or now.

regards
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 1, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Ed, please don't be so hurt. I realize that on this forum, it's OK to bag on Bush or republicans, and you'll get a free pass, but not to say anything negative about any democrats or (especially) the President. But please try and open your mind. If another's ignorance and stupidity bother you, you can resort to the old tried and true method of "DON'T CLICK THE LINK".

You can count, for instance, the amount of times I've posted on Dr F's "republicans are horrible wretched creature thread quite easily. It has over 30,000 posts, I don't choose to read the stupidity that gets bantered back and forth. So I go old school and "DON'T CLICK THE LINK". My life is thus better. I enjoy alternative viewpoints, and have had some spirited discourse with Craig and Phil, liberals both. Not on that thread however. Waste of time.

If I had to choose you or Donald, it's YOU all the way. But I'd hope that you don't get so wrapped up in some squirrels dude.

Sadie likes squirrels. But she cannot read. Ergo, she doesn't click the links, but shakes them if she can catch them and her life is immensely better without the computer. The squirrels are doing better staying on top of the fence.




Unfortunately, by posting here, we are both giving DT a boost. The fastest way to make it stop is for folks to don't post on a thread they disapprove of.

Regards
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Feb 1, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
I realize that on this forum, it's OK to bag on Bush or republicans, you'll get a free pass, but not on any democrats or the President. But try and open your mind. If anothers ignorance and stupidity bother you, DON'T CLICK THE LINK.

I haven't bagged on Bush, and I probably said why, we the people elect the president, who ever that is we have an obligation to work with the administration for the best of the country. While I do not agree on every policy issue of every administration, in my current job I still need to provide the best input to the government, who ever that might be...

...in fact, it's not a "who" but it is an "us," once again we elected that government.

You accuse me of having a closed mind, but that is not at all how I see it... I would believe that Donald could have made his points in a respectful, intellectual manner, but did not choose to take the "high road." I have no problem with his espousing his point of view, I do have a problem when it is done with disrespect.

The OP of this thread, and the many prods by Donald in it, is disrespectful to a very high degree and it does so as an intentional provocation. That is not necessary, in my opinion, and I said so. I have debated Donald on other threads, I do not agree with him but I respect that he has an opinion and I sought to learn the basis of that opinion.

And it is not just a matter of "not clicking." Your favorite Trad climbing area can still be climbed in that manner even if it is grid-rap-bolted... just don't clip the bolts, right?! Though you might not seek that spot out after it has been so treated.

When their is intentional baiting using offensive and disrespectful posts, this thread being an example, we can certainly challenge it, and do so respectfully.

Perhaps I have been remiss in not doing so in other threads... but so be it.

But close minded? I don't think so... can you provide an explanation of that statement?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 1, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
That does it, I'm going to start hunting and eating squirrels. Any advice, suggestions? I know there have been some cases of the plaque up here, but I'm thinking some rubber gloves curing skinning/cleaning should do the trick.

Best vid I've found on the subject
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 1, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
I haven't followed all of your online debates with the guy Ed, was only referring to this thread and I didn't see DT being a douchbag. If you say he is elsewhere, I would not doubt your words.

As far as being disrespectful of the President, THIS THREAD, is much less aggro than 90 percent of the things which had been said about Bush. I will admit that the last administration did substantially more stupid sh#t, and so they should have been dissed on substantially more...but sometimes it got embarrassing how over the top and damned nasty it got, so I can relate to your feelings and statements. I was not singling you out as a person who had "bashed" Bush excessively, I'm sure we both said some pretty pointed and possibly nasty, but true, things. So sorry to infer that your Bush words were over the top as I was referring to people who post here generally.

As far as walking away, I'm standing by that. See, now you and I have both bumped this thread to the top again:-). Lets walk any and let it slip off the front page. OK?

Regards to you Ed.
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