Lance is a Saint !

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Messages 61 - 80 of total 84 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
thirsty

climber
Jan 22, 2013 - 10:03am PT
The arguments over how to eliminate cheating from sports or wether to just allow people to use whatever supplements they like seem way off the mark in terms of where the actual illness lies. THe perversion is professionalism and the idea that paying to watch someone play a game is a good idea. Even in amateur competition you will have some cheating, but because there is no money involved, its just a matter of honor and who you want to play with.

part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 22, 2013 - 10:40am PT
I had the opportunity to "rise to the top" so to speak in the pharmaceutical industry,

there is a big difference between taking the next "stepping stone" in career advancement and mandatory day to day life and $75 million.

LOL
nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Jan 22, 2013 - 12:53pm PT

PTC ascribes deception and dishonesty as basic elements of human nature, that we are disingenuous if we expect more.

I see deception and dishonesty as a form of moral entropy... Things tend in that direction in the absence of constructive thought and directed intention to create a world in which we want to live. It is ongoing work to fight the impulses of momentary satisfaction to shape a world we are proud to live in and be an active part of.

In the face of so many people who have given up the fight, it takes a lot courage and strength and clarity to keep up the good fight. That to me is what being human, having free will, is all about.

P.S. Don't need Jesus to think that way, but if that floats your boat and gives you a good framework for living, more power to you.


I think where things get really tricky is when doing the "right" thing hurts people who depend on us (hurts according to their own value system which may not match ours/yours/mine/etc). The morality becomes gray when you think about helping ones you love versus "doing what is right for humanity."
crunch

Social climber
CO
Jan 22, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
slayton said it best:

For the sake of clarity, I don't give a sh#t about professional cycling or any other professional sport. Don't much watch em and don't really care. Except inasmuch as I know that many, many others do watch and care, in particular younger, impressionable minds who might be looking up to individuals in these sports as heroes and role models.

I find it truly amazing that professional athletes make incomes as large as they do while providing society with nothing more than entertainment to the masses or perhaps hope to individuals that maybe they can do the same. Incomes of magnitudes higher than teachers, firemen, policemen, or any other profession that is actually contributing to society in a tangible way. Any number of "entertainment" professions could be lumped into the same bucket. It seems that these are our gladiatorial games to keep us pacified but I assign no higher ups or conspiracy to do so. It's all us. I think maybe it's because of human nature that we look outside of ourselves and mundane existence to find some kind of common ground with others, some kind of excitement beyond our daily lives. Thus professional sports, movies, music, and celebrity that so many seem to obsess about. Are they really worth that much?

Lance Armstrong, with all the hoopla and the Oprah interview is the name of the day. Most of the general public now following all of this, myself included, probably don't know much about the inter workings of the professional cycling industry. Reading this thread and reading much elsewhere it's obvious that particular sport has some serious issues to be worked out with regards to performance enhancement drugs. What's new? Same can be said of many, if not most, professional (and collegiate?) sports.

Lance Armstrong f*#ked up by doping, as so many others did in the cycling circuit and the overall culture of that sport needs to be examined and rectified by those involved. My major beef in all of this is that knowing that he had doped in the first place he not only went on to lie about it he went on to pursue, vilify, attack, and sue those that knew the truth and called him out on it. He might be a scapegoat for the cycling world but that's not mutually exclusive from being an as#@&%e.

And no, I'm not jealous. It's sad enough that, for whatever reason, our society places more value on entertainers than those who actually contribute.

Excellent.
Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
Jan 22, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
Sometimes I think you people have no empathy at all. Sure LA lied, cheated, and really hurt a lot of people. But he has to live with that. And he has to live with that whether he is sincere or not, whether he has shame or not, whether he has regrets or not. Why is it so important to jump on him when he's down? Seems cowardly to me. Why can't you step back and see what he does with the rest of his life, not the past?

And the hypocrisy! I've known many climbers that don't have the courage to lead a difficult route without dope. You even have a "hippy lettuce appreciation" thread. Why not a EPO appreciation thread?

I'm not defending Lance Armstrong. I am pretty fascinated at how vindictive, self-righteous, and cruel some of you are. I hope you never have your past examined or exposed.
Degaine

climber
Jan 22, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
PTC wrote:
there is a big difference between taking the next "stepping stone" in career advancement and mandatory day to day life and $75 million.

LOL

My apologies, PTC, I didn't realize you were just trolling, so my fault for actually responding to you seriously.

Have a great day!
apinguat

Trad climber
kingfield, me
Jan 22, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
RW seems you have a lot of anger. I am sort of sorry you've written off so many people.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Jan 23, 2013 - 05:01am PT
The most toxic aspect of the Lance saga is not that he cheated (he didn't escape its consequences, so nothing more needs to be said), but more the vengeance and abuse of his power as a public figure towards those who were critical of him.

That vengeance in fact helped convince people of his innocence, because it was impossible to believe that anyone could be so heartless in shredding other people's credibility so completely (and legally) unless he was in fact innocent. It was above and beyond what he had to do to maintain his reputation, and in retrospect, quite senseless and insane.

In Oprah's interview, he seemed to downplay the significance of his extreme bullying.

Bad karma for Lance, and only getting worse.
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 26, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
Bad karma for Lance, and only getting worse.


It's amazing people's need to employ moral terms to make sense of the situation. Or we start projecting the problem into the transcendental and global realm.

When all that is needed is taking a closer look into the psychology of it all. When you end up beating cancer, do you think you are going to let anything else get in the way? You are thrust into a rather skewed mentality of what is possible. If anyone has read Nietzsche, you will see that "will to power" is the driving force behind human intention and action, not concerns of what I "should" do.

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 26, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
I find it truly amazing that professional athletes make incomes as large as they do while providing society with nothing more than entertainment to the masses or perhaps hope to individuals that maybe they can do the same.


Yeah, I don't pay much attention to any of that sh#t. Not watching the stupor bowl, I don't care how your college team is doing, and you can f*#k off with your jerseys proclaiming allegiance to a life spent watching TV. All the people here attributing any lesson of worth to this story are just more suckers taken in by the ad machine. Congrats, idiots, you sold a magazine, you supported coca cola, you sniffed the glue.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jan 26, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
I wonder if all the people who bought Trek bicycles over the last decade can sue saying the bikes were misrepresented as actually helping you go fast. Its not about the bike, its the EPO. ha
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 26, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
I actually was asking the same question with my friend the other day. I was wondering if the people who started cycling because of lance armstrong are going to quit cycling because of lance armstrong now LOL

cycling has definitely experienced a boom in popularity, probably in large part due to the strong appeal and "coolness" that armstrong brought to the sport. But I am no expert on the public consumer history of the sport
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 26, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
Lance is a smug, dick wad...

bike or no bike...

that doesn't really get us anywhere. And it sure as hell doesn't explain his behavior.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 26, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
It's all good! He says he's gonna help clean up cycling! Woot!
Or does that mean he's going into recycling? Good money in that, dontchya know?
Degaine

climber
Jan 28, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
PTC wrote:
Or we start projecting the problem...

You're the only one in here projecting.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 28, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
I bagged this peak up McGee canyon back in 92 with this young impetuous cycling star who ended up riding with Lance for a short while...This kid ended up punching Lance out at a training camp...Now i can understand why...This young guy ended up living on the streets of sacramento as a crack head , revived his cycling career for a short while then ended up back on the streets...The tumultuous world of bike racing...
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Jan 28, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
Rotten Johny, My best friend has a brother who was a cycling mentor to that kid when he first started racing in Sacramento. I think he is still on the streets of Sacramento I think he a wife and kid around. His second comeback race was a crit in Lodi that he won- and of course part of the prize was a huge bottle of wine. But he was already off the wagon by then. Sad story....

Chad Gerlach

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/comeback-cyclist-gerlach-relapses
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 28, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
Trophy....It was funny hiking with this young bike racer , Chad ...He was almost running the whole day and was super fit...We were climbing this 3rd class death choss heap and Chad had never climbed before....Falling would have meant death but he was clueless to the realities of mountainneering...Everything was loose and pulling too hard would send these large boulders tumbling down the vertical dirt...I was the first one on the summit and found a jar with a notebook inside...Seeing that there was no name for the summit , i wrote my name on the front of the summit register....When Chad scrambled up to the summit he read the name of the Peak which was my last name and not knowing my last name , fell for it...I now have a summit in the sierra named for me and am famous...On the run out i asked Chad who was the fastest rider on his team and he replied Me , myself , and I....He said it without thinking and meant it...From then on we called him Me , Myself , and I...The streets of sacramento...Yes...!
Kalimon

Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
Jan 28, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
I actually was asking the same question with my friend the other day. I was wondering if the people who started cycling because of lance armstrong are going to quit cycling because of lance armstrong now LOL

If an individual is a dedicated and serious cyclist, they are doing it for themselves . . . the current drama in the media would have no effect on their activity. Let's face it folks, riding hard is not for the weak willed.

Oh just one more little thing . . . the TDF is no joke and yes Lance won seven of them.
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Jan 29, 2013 - 02:52am PT
its almost like lance armstrong is like the modern day version of napoleon or Genghis khan
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