Surviving Sedona.....January 8th is my new second birthday

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 161 - 180 of total 184 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
I might have added that I've never climbed with anyone who bounce-tests them either, and over 56 years I've climbed with a lot of experienced climbers. Maybe I'm just climbing with the wrong folks. Who here regularly bounce-tests their rap anchors?

Well, if we're going to have a valid, accurate and meaningful discussion then let's make sure we're framing it right.

a) Who here regularly bounce-tests their rap anchors?
b) Who here regularly bounce-tests their highly suspect rap anchors when conditions or cirumstances, like an available ledge, allow it?

Here, I think you're likely to get different answers to the two questions.

I'll start: (a) Seldom. (b) Always.

Your post drew my attention for suggesting that there is never a reason to bounce-test by your comment... "I've never bounce-tested a rap anchor and don't imagine I ever would..." Further, the concluding "unless" part seemed to me to minimize the importance of this valuable safety protocol.

The rest of your posts I agree with.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
Hmm. If I had a highly suspect rap anchor that I couldn't just replace with a better one and a comfy ledge to test it from, I'd bounce test it too, so I should retract my inability to imagine more than one circumstance. However, that particular combination of good and bad circumstances has never arisen for me. Whenever I've been confronted with a highly suspect anchor (as opposed to just the slings) I've always managed to build a much better one somewhere in the vicinity (or even, in one or two cases, not really in the vicinity).

I should also confess to a period of building and convincing my partners to rely on some sketchy anchors. Back in the day when we still had hammers, I used to be fond of hammering rocks into cracks---creating unnaturally wedged chockstones---and slinging them for rappels. This was before nuts came on the scene and we became more sophisticated about wedging things into cracks. What worries me in retrospect about those hammered chockstones is the possibility that the hammering might have cracked them.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 14, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
That particular combination of good and bad circumstances has never arisen for me.

Really? Well, this is surprising. This difference in experience then might explain our hangup on this thread.

There are several wide-open aging crags in my area that have literally dozens of suspect rap or tr stations featuring a ledge, a semi-ledge, or even a top where it permits me, and behooves me, for safety sake to bounce-test them (but true, more often just to jerk-test them) before they earn my trust to use.

And, to add, then when I have rapped on these suspects or unknowns (maybe they're two old rusty quarter inchers, say, set 25 years ago by who knows), I try to be Mr. Smooth about it and give all my attention to not shocking the system (say, with more than 1.5 g or so).

So far no issues. Knock on rock.
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 14, 2013 - 03:05pm PT
Who here regularly bounce-tests their rap anchors?

not me.

what my partner and I did was to place a piece as a backup. first guy raps, if the primary piece didn't move, or the rock was solid. it was all good. the second cleans the backup piece, raps, and everybody is happy.
Jeremy Ross

Gym climber
Jan 14, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
are you in the camp with moosedrooler such that you never question anything once it gets into a "respectable" publication?


Every scientist worth his/her weight will question any article in any publication for methods used, conclusions, data, etc. Tony, your recent posts about scientific journals in various threads leads me to believe you neither understand the scientific method nor the method of reading/analyzing/deconstructing/understanding a peer reviewed journal.



-JR
mission

Social climber
boulder,co
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:25am PT
Don't they have some sh#t you can smoke that will make you more paranoid?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 15, 2013 - 12:40am PT
Blah blah blah blah seconds this blah blah blah seconds that the sling broke under body weight.

Body weight.

Jackasses. Just another completely useless technonerd discussion, a great sound and fury signifying nothing.

Body weight.... (sheesh)

DMT
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 15, 2013 - 09:14am PT
^^^ what dingus said ...

except that our dear and glorious donini continues to decline to cite the article which he himself mentions in the OP, whilst doniniolaters try to cover for him by guessing which article it was.

amen to sheesh. much like vatican city, where an industry of casuists occludes an inaccessible library. (i hope this is all big-headed enough for locker.)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 15, 2013 - 09:30am PT
Whatever you do, don't make a pledge to be diligent.

That was aimed squarely at you Jim. heh...
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2013 - 10:45am PT
Tony, I can't remember where I saw the article....then again, I can't remember when I had a memory.
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:07am PT
Shite, the number of times I've almost died while crossing the streets here in China...

I've got a whole lot of birthdays!
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:29am PT
well thanks, jim, and sorry to be so pointed about it. i guess the weathering of these things is pretty much a wild card.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:35am PT
So, no one was impressed by my idea of using uv-resistant polyester for rap slings instead of nylon?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Come to think of it, isn't bandaloop as dangerous as rappel? I suppose it could be if they didn't test the system.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky1pwD46tqs

Different strokes for different folks. Eh?

I wonder when they will they give a Bandaloop performance on El Cap?
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:47am PT

I wonder when they will they give a Bandaloop performance on El Cap?

It's been done
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:49am PT
QT What do you want to be when you grow up?
ANS A bandaloop dancer. :)

.....

It's been done.

Oh, that's right...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=mmoA3pcX3QE

Well, at least in rock climbing, we don't "risk it all" on something so silly. ;)

Someday climbers and bandaloop dancers will have to compete for use on El Cap.

Now that's a thought.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:53am PT
You cheated death once again!
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Jan 23, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
A few posts back I made some comments about not bounce-testing in-situ rap anchors and not knowing anyone who did. This engendered a "discussion" with High Fructose CS.

I recently encountered an account of an ascent of the Supercalenta on Fitzroy that included the following remark:

Max and I took turns to lead the endless abseils, which required care, as many old in-situ anchors blew on the first bounce test.

(See http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=5222 for the full account.)

Looks as if other people make a habit of this, to good effect.
thebravecowboy

Social climber
Colorado Plateau
Apr 16, 2013 - 05:40pm PT
Thank you, Donini, for reminding us to stay alert and always provide a redundant, make yer mama happy, backup to any suspect anchor (especially ez and reasonable for raps).

A fellow from SLC just plummeted 60 feet in a technical canyon near Hanksville known as Constrychnine. He was 1/3 of the way down a 90' rap that the six people before him had safely completed. The webbing (unclear whether 1" or 11/16"or what) parted near the quicklink and he hit the ground, fracturing his pelvis, ankles, and more. The last man on the rap had a SPOT, re-rigged, rapped, and headed downcanyon to call in the cavalry. Now, this is not something you really want to do in Wayne County. I have heard nightmare stories about the local Wayne Co. SAR team showing up in loafers, failing to carry sufficient anti-seizure meds for members of their own team, rapping into the depths of a canyon for a rescue without the knowledge required to safely ascend the rope and self-extricate. Ultimately some hours later, a chopper from Page hauled the injured guy out to Grand Junction Regional. EDIT: FWIW, the SAR volunteers that showed up to this recent (4/15/13) accident were apparently great. Cheers to them!

I sure hope the guy that got hurt heals well.

Let's be ultra-vigilant folks, let's KNOTT trust fixed soft-goods, or at least test them full-body weight with a backup prior to committing. Thanks Donini, again, for the reminder to CYA!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2015 - 05:32pm PT
Another bump to promote rappelling saftey.
Messages 161 - 180 of total 184 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews