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JimT
climber
Munich
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Jan 10, 2013 - 05:56am PT
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Those remind me of my first ones, car seat-belt material from the scrapyard rules!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 10, 2013 - 06:05am PT
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Whoa Johnnnyyyzzz
D-LUX
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jan 10, 2013 - 08:10am PT
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The Frost Knot is cheap. Sewing sh#t you don't need is a waste of time and money unless you can afford to waste your trust fund...
The trouble we all seemed to have had with the Frost knots was that in order to tie them in the right spot with the right cinch, you had to tie the aider up loosely enough so you could re-adjust the knot so it wasn't irritating to the foot. Positioning is crucial. Once you got it, you could pretty much tell it was correct. Slack is adjusted into the bottom step. Real tough to have a long first loop?---Nope. It doesn't hurt a thing to have this slight mismatch of sizes in the loops.
Then there's deciding how many steps you require, three or four, and how about them sub-aiders? For those I used heavy 9/16" webbing myself, and clipped them into the biner on the top of the ETRIER.
Trial and error is a big part of the adventure of climbing. Good fortune in the wall game.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:00am PT
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I'd buy them from wherever Tom Frost got his...
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:12am PT
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Go for it. I strongly encourage you to use a spreader bar (1/2" PVC, pop rivets and washers). Also, read up on step stiffener options (doubled webbing, weed whip line). I use homemade ones that are out of 9/16" with an integrated shorty ring tree for use with Russian Aiders.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:31am PT
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I tied my first pair in about '75. I believe there are instructions in advanced rockcraft. Though I have various commercial ones, due to unseen circumstances ( theft you know who you are) I had occasion to jug a line last month using said 37 yr old home tied aider. Worked like a champ!
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:46am PT
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1" flat webbing +1
Enhanced!
For the foot loops I'd insert the flat webbing into a 6" section of tubular webbing on each rung. Color coded with tubular scraps, of course!
The enhanced water knot used three sections of flat webbing to form the biner loop at top. The knot was a nice thing to grab on to when launching into the top step. Once I used toe aider to tow a car to make the knot nice a tight.
The top loop (above the knot) would be enhanced with the flat webbing inserted a short section of tubular 1" webbing (for durability).
Then you buy some sewn aiders (strictly from commercial), and you'll never go back. But at least you can boast about having grown your own.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Jan 10, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
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I pretty much did as the book suggested, 1" flat with overhand knots topped by the Frost knot. But we thought we'd be cool and add a 2 step sub-aider out of 1/2" tubelar.
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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Jan 10, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
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I built aiders and other sewn climbing gear as a job for five years, and can say it's not too hard. The biggest caveat is that you really need to have a machine that's up to the task if you want to do it well. You could destroy your mom's old Sears machine trying, but you'll just frustrate yourself.
Soft webbing like tubular 1" is pretty easy to sew. The stiffer stuff like the flat webbing you find on back pack straps can be very difficult for a home machine to manage once it's two or three layers thick.
You also need the right sized needles and quality thread of a decent size. Polyester or nylon thread size 69 would be a good place to start. this is most commonly available to joe public like you or me as extra-strong upholstery thread at most sewing supply places. We used 69 thread on ultralight alpine aiders, and super burly 128 thread on daisys and regular aiders, as well as slings and quickdraws. You probably won't be able to easily buy thread this large, nor be able to run it on a home machine.
Most home sewing machines won't be able to do a good bartack in webbing. They're just not powerful enough. The bartackers we used weighed about three hundred pounds and would do a 48 stitch tack in about 1 second. Even if the tip of the needle broke off! which was terrifying)Here's a similar one:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
If you can't make a good bartack (three or four times straight stitching across the webbbing, then covered with zig-zag stitching) the the box-and-cross will be your highest strength alternative. (sew twice around a square the same height as the width of your webbing, then twice across both diagonals.) Very strong old military web technique. Here's a video of a specialized machine doing one, but it's easily replicatable on a regular machine:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Hope this helps. I agree it's very satisfying to make something yourself. I would reccomend the ladder style with a small pvc spreader bar at the top. Step stiffeners are a nice touch too. Make a set out of cheap webbing first to see if you've got the dimensions where you want them, then do a good set or two. Never take your dirty sandy webbing back onto your sewing machine. It will kill it.
K
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MassiveD
Trad climber
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Nov 25, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
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For what it is worth you can get 128 thread, even up to the 400s, on ebay 24/7. Not that as you say you can run it in most home machines. You can get a bartacker there also, but it will cost a lot.
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dindolino32
climber
san francisco
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Nov 25, 2014 - 11:52pm PT
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Yep, our first few small walls were tied frost knots. I added some plastic tubing and additional knots to keep it from sliding around. Worked descent but was pretty heavy. I also made a pair of adjustable steps for just the follower. I made a super big foot plate that was comfy to stand in and used a munter mule to tie off the cord at the desired height. It was pretty good, but I ended up buying some for the weight. Sewing them would be rad.
You aren't really trusting your life to it like a rope or harness, so I say go for it and test it out on a 10 pitch wall first.
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Nov 26, 2014 - 03:51am PT
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I made a set of 5-step aiders out of a 60-foot length of webbing.
The webbing was getting worn and I cut it in half one day and followed the instructions from the article Ed linked, above. It took a long time getting the knots organized and fairly even before I snugged them down.
To help keep the loops open I added plastic strips cut from an old milk jug and Gorilla-taped them to the lower part of each loop and wrapped it as neatly as I could.
It's helpful to step into and take some weight off the harness while taking photos of people climbing at the local crag.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Nov 26, 2014 - 06:29am PT
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We use to tie out own. Sign of my advanced age!
dittos
Same here. When I bought my first Forrest sewn aiders it was like night and day.
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Edge
Trad climber
Betwixt and Between Nederland & Boulder, CO
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Nov 26, 2014 - 06:49am PT
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A former climbing partner of mine sewed his first set of aiders by hand back in 1980 or so-abouts...
He likely tested them first in a tree in the Granite State before carting them cross country, but the trial by fire occurred on the East Butt of Middle Cathedral. Charlie's belayer relays the story of watching him cheat his way through the short bolt ladder when he heard a rather disconcerting creak, followed by pop, Pop, POP! as the sewn steps exploded sequentially in descending order from Heaven to Earth, leaving ole Charlie three feet lower and a bit freaked.
Allegedly the route was completed after the belayer regained his composure following an extended laugh-in.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Nov 26, 2014 - 09:10am PT
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^^
and that is how screamers were born.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 26, 2014 - 09:23am PT
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Would you use homemade climbing shoes?
If I could as easily make a pair of climbing shoes as honed to my own proclivities as I can so easily tie a pair of aiders to my own lengths and wants, I'd do it in a heartbeat!
That being said, I'm a lazy old man and generally use commercial aiders these days.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Nov 26, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
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Ed -
If it is the "Tom" Frost knot, that name may have been applied after it had been in use for some time. Gallwas, Hemming and I were tying up our pathetic one-step aiders with surplus 1" tubular webbing in 1952, and that just seemed like the most logical knot to use. I wasn't aware of a name for it.
Maybe Tom can tell us?
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