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verticalbound
Trad climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 9, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
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Whats the opinion on home made aiders? obviously ill get the " aiders are cheap just buy them" and YER GONNA DIE, etc. Really though I've got a machine capable of a mean bartack stitch and want to make my own custom ladders....
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sew 'em. Show 'em.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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We use to tie out own. Sign of my advanced age!
Peace
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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We use to tie out own. Sign of my advanced age!
What do you mean "used to," Ron?
;>)
John
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Chris is right about most of your time being spent standing in aiders. That being said, I have sewn my own aiders and they were by far my faves. Only problem I can see is that if you're new to aid climbing then you probably don't know what works best. This leads to the old trial and error process. By the end you've got ten sets of aiders. Could be worse.
GET HEINOUS!
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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What I started with, circa 1983, was 1-inch, flat (non-tubular webbing). I think a 30-some-foot-long piece. Then an elaborate system of tying 5 or 6 loops on one side, just the right size, no kinks or twists, and ending up with a single large knot and clip-in loop at the top. All basic frost knots, they tighten up pretty quick. Then a sub-aider (single, shoulder-length-ish, loop, for clipping into while jumaring. This attaches to the big top loop.
Huge improvement is to use 6-inch lengths of tubular 1-inch webbing, threaded over the flat webbing and located/preplaced in crucial, high-wear places (like where your feet go and the clip-in loop). These act as stiffeners to hold the loops open.
Care with getting the loops identical on each aider pays off. My first pair worked for many years. Even made a second pair before creeping laziness and wealth corrupted me and I actually bought some.
Really, the Chouinard/BD 6-steps aiders I've used ever since are no better, I'm just lazier. In some ways homemade ones are better, because the actual webbing has to wear throughout before the aiders need replacing (stitched ones, I start worrying about wear on the stitching and retire them sooner). Never felt the need to buy the more elaborate versions. They all do much the same job. Secret to comfort is to find shoes that are rigid side to side, yet light.
YMMV....
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Ditto what T Hocking said. Every route (edit: I've done) on the Captain, Half Dome, etc., was done with knotted aiders. I tried a pair of sewn ones but they just didn't fit right and it was awkward to clip in at waist level with a fifi, where you spend a lot of your time. Ended up tweaking my lower back and I ended up sticking with the knotted ones.
I you do sew them, make sure you do it right or you'll be half way up something with a blown aider and little means to fix it. I made homemade daisys for my first trip up the Captain. I blew a couple of tacks but fixed that just by knotting it. I don't think you'll be able to do that with a sewn aider. Also make sure that the top of the aider is pretty much level with your waist when standing in your third loop so you can use a fifi comfortably.
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Grampa
climber
from SoCal
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BITD we tied our own aiders. The biggest challenge was tying a loop that would stay open enough to get your foot into. The new "ladder" type aiders seem to solve this problem.
The only reason we did not buy sewn ladder aiders BITD, was because they did not exist.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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We use to tie out own.
Ya mon. Getting the steps adjusted to the proper size was an exercise in madness. How uncomfortable do you wanna be in your top step?
I used a metal spreader bar for my top step to keep it open.
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Michelle
Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
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I went through a phase where I wanted to be retro. Tie my own aiders, sleep in a hammock, climb the East Face of Washington Column, etc. I got over it.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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IF you choose to go home-made, knots are the way to go, I reckon.
DIY sewing? Only if you really know what you are doing. Remember you will be relying, 100 per cent, on these at times, on a wall. All eggs in one basket, so to speak.
Stitching is great when new but it's impossible to know how weak it's getting after some wear and tear....there's enough to worry about up there.
The flat webbing is key, as it's stiffer, though I'm not sure how easy is it find any more (?). And the little sleeves on the footrest bits really do hold the loops out, so you can get your feet into them.
Like here. Sleeve bits are blue:
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Great lead hammer there Crunch!
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verticalbound
Trad climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2013 - 08:22pm PT
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well before I go out and buy webbing/materials I made a practice aider with some scrap webbing i had...
p.s. the medical tape covers a metal spreader bar.
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verticalbound
Trad climber
Anchorage
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
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final product would be largely more pleasing aesthetically, but the machine i have can do 1000 stitch bartack per 1.2 inches
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Onewhowalksonrocks
Mountain climber
portland, Maine
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I just figured that store bought aiders were for those who didn't know how to tie them. You know the "special climbers" in the short bus.
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marty(r)
climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
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Etriers
The webbing etrier should be designed to suit the size of the individual, and the type of climbing he will be doing. A few points to consider in their construction are mentioned here.
First, in order to be of greatest utility the top loop of the etrier should be positioned to provide as high level a step as possible while still keeping the free carabiner barely within reach for use as a handhold. Meeting this condition will allow the top loop to be used over 95% of the time. On low ange faces the very maximum reach is obtained by using a Hero Loop clipped into the etrier carabiner.
Today, as more and more climbs are being pushed free and artificial pitches are being followed on Jumars, extra consideration should be given to the ease of carrying. A short etrier carries easily over the shoulders. An etrier with two large loops deploys quickly when the top loop is placed around the neck. Experience has shown that tall individuals climb most efficiently in large loops whereas climbers with short legs find a longer etrier with smaller loops advantageous.
To construct the webbing etrier, cut the proper length of webbing. One inch tubular or solid webbing is normally used but for special cases where weight is of primary importance 9/16" or 1/2" may be employed. Thirteen feet are required for the standard three-loop etrier. A lenth of 10 feet 10 inches makes a good two step etrier.
Form a large loop with a 9" overlap and tie the Frost not--a simple Overhand knot over the triple thickness--to fashion the carbiner loop. Form individual loops with overhand knots leaving about 4 inches of eccentricity in the loops. While tightening the knots, first carefully by hand, then vigorously bouncing in every loop, maintaining a close check to ensure that the etrier dimensions, particularly the loop eccentricity, are maintained. All three of the etriers used by one individual should be the same size."
Coonyard has spoken.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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We use to tie out own. Sign of my advanced age!
dittos
Crunch has it.
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Jonnnyyyzzz
Trad climber
San Diego,CA
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Jan 10, 2013 - 05:20am PT
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Sew them up. I've made some I like better than any others I've seen.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jan 10, 2013 - 05:40am PT
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Yup. Tied our own from 20 feet or so of webbing. That said my Forrest sewn aiders were a significant step forward. Those damn knots in the tied aiders were a pain.
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