Hardware carabiners at belay stations (test)

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Messages 1 - 20 of total 28 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Kinobi

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 4, 2013 - 04:51am PT
For whom interested in.
Best,
E
http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=40417
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 4, 2013 - 06:51am PT
Sounds like a europen issue. never seen a hardware store aluminum biner at a rap station here in the states.
Kinobi

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 4, 2013 - 08:14am PT
I doubt it.
Anyway, in case you lower off somewhere in Europe, worth reading...
E
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Jan 4, 2013 - 10:51am PT
Never seen an aluminum biner from a hardware store on a climbing route or in a hardware store. I've seen steel ones, but they usually get tossed pretty quickly.

Pretty sure this is a euro thing. Interesting read though.
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
Jan 4, 2013 - 11:48am PT
The take-aways are thus:

"- Every "hardware" carabiner sucks, to say the least, whether they are new, old, regardless of their shape, type, width and where they were bought in Italy. All, apart from one, open on average at circa 1200 daN (kg).
 Every "climbing" carabiner, even the oldest, most used and worn, is better than the best new "hardware" carabiner. And even if really worn, they fail close to the stated breaking strength; this is almost twice as much as the average "hardware" carabiner.
 Often the abseil carabiner on a single pitch sport climb (which therefore becomes the only anchor) is far and away the worst carabiner in a climber's gear kit. Often even failing, with a closed gate, at loads which are less than a "good" climbing carabiner with an open gate."

By 'hardware carabiner' they refer to those clips you'd use to maybe hang a hammock or something. Definitely available here, although I can't recall seeing any on anchors here.

A test of the varying grades of maillon rapide[quicklink would be of more interest. Seems like those are all over the map.

I'd use old carabiners myself but people f*ing steal them off anchors so I go with the quick links.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 4, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
Ive used threaded locking biners from hardware stores for many an anchor- thick strong steel and once the threads are tightened down- most likely will be there - as regular biners just go poof on the next ascent of the route.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 4, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
"or a maillon rapide, quickdraw sling and carabiner. With "fixed" gear, the weakest part is always the quickdraw, then the "hardware" maillon rapide and then the carabiner (if it is "CE").
Non "CE" maillon rapides generally hold less that a really worn "CE" carabiner.
CE" maillon rapides, even if worn down to about half their width, break under loads similar to new maillon rapides."
...


I've seen my fair share of THESE being used in the US...



EDITED:

"I'd use old carabiners myself but people f*ing steal them off anchors so I go with the quick links."...

YEP!!!...

Same here...

Probably true for most of us (plus, they are of course, CHEAPER)...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 4, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
Hardware store quick links are completly bombproof. I will break your climbing rope any time you wish with a quick link. even the skimpy little 1/4in quicklinks are stronger than a climbing rope. they say they are only rated for 880 lbs but i tested them and was able to break 10.1mm climbing rope with a 1/4in quicklink in the system.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jan 4, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
tradmanclimbs,i agree,and you guys have real hardware stores in greenmountain.
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
Jan 4, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
Nice to know tradman, thanks!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 4, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
I do a fair bit of logging with retired climbing rope. I get all my firewood by gathering downed trees from the woods. you end up breaking a lot of rope this way and learning lots of cool stuff. the quick link test was specificaly to test quick links. The rope bearing surface was a standard climbng carabiner clipped to a 1/4" National quick link made in Malasia that was in turn clipped to the truck with a locking biner. I drop tested it with a pickup thruck and the rope broke @ the knott where it breaks in almost all of my tests.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:20pm PT
I have used the same brand,the next size up ,with static 1inch webbing for years rigging framing jobs,etc.They are pretty tough.I have never tried to break em though.Good information.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
I had zero intention of useing the 1/4 inchers for climbing aplication. I usually use the 5/16th and 3/8ths though lately I have been useing Climb tech quicklinks which seem to be of higher quality. Anyways I had a few 1/4" links hanging arround as I use them to fix plow chain. I just had the urge to see if the little ones would break climbing rope and they do. That test makes me super warm and fuzzy useing the 5/16th links.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
Yep,5/16ths,thats what i been using.Ive felt good about em,i have lifted big gables with some.I protected myself on some steep roofs with that set up.I will definitely feel better now.
can only wish to have as much time to climb as you guys,still i get th...
can only wish to have as much time to climb as you guys,still i get the gear out
Credit: wilbeer
Kinobi

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 6, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
working on a specific test for QL is complex.

i have seen very strong hardware store ql and some very weak.

a lot has to do to the tread (the screw thing). even some bought new in the same box were differend.

i have never seen an original Mailon Rapide even cut in half, to be weaker than listed.

some "problems" are now being known on the fixed draws (perma draws) where most ql are used.

my experience is that all UMBRANDED gear should not be used, or worse, left on a route.

best
e
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
No accountability means no quality control.

Maillon-Rapide is worth investing in for your quicklinks. Much cheaper than an ER visit.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
I don't think it matters much, at least enough to justify the expense of using rated maillons as opposed to hardware store quicklinks if all you're doing is leaving them on fixed rappel stations.

Fixed quickdraws = maybe.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 6, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
we once unstuck a small catepillar from the mud using a hardware store 3/8 threaded locking link- the same ones used for anchor applications.. they are as bomber as any climbing biner out there. And a longer life due to a larger thickness, which is also easier on ones ropes.



i installed some in the late eighties/early nineties that have been used thousands of times- and they hardly show any wear. Some on VERY popular routes..
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 6, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
I will wager a $10,000.00 bet to anyone any time that I can and will BREAK YOUR DYNAMIC CLIMBING ROPE with a National hardwear store 3/8ths quick link. the test is really fcking easy. just tie a climbing rope to a 3/8ths in quick link and clip that to a pickup truck. tie the other end to a big assed tree. drop test the truck. the rope will break @ the knott every time unless it hits a sharp edge. If this test is not good enough for you then you are a hopelessly pathetic tech weinie.

Annother way of looking at it is if these things are so sketch where are all the dead bodys?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 7, 2013 - 10:41am PT
I don't know of many accidents involving Army surplus carabiners either but I certainly wouldn't economize that way. Beer is sold in all price ranges so suit yourself. I like Belgian ales and Rapide links...
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