Does the NRA have a stupid pill problem?

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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 4, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
why have and carry a gun? cuz a cop is to big for the pocket.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 5, 2013 - 09:32am PT
Should I list the number of times people I know have had the need to pull a gun to protect themselves, their loved ones, or their property....








0








And I know at least 10 people.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 09:57am PT
I've had to unholster my weapon just once. That was on the job though.

I know a great many people who have never taken a leader fall. Should they not use a rope or a belay?

Most skydivers have never had a function. Should they not have a reserve?

Of course, ropes and reserves can't be used to kill anyone so it is quite different, but still, your personal experience Wes doesn't mean diddly.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:05am PT
That's silly logic. If you put yourself in a position that requires certain safety equipment, the yes, you should use that safety equipment. And it ain't my personal experience. It is the experience of every person I have ever known (except my bro-in-law who is a cop).

My point, which you reinforced, is that the VAST MAJORITY of gun owners never have the need to use their guns. The fact that even more people are frantically buying up guns they have never needed before, out of fear of situations they have never found themselves in before, will most likely only create situations where they actually need them. Self-fulfilling prophecy bullsh#t.

A friend in Salt Lake carries. His reason "because any dipshit can get a permit to carry after taking a 2 hour class... and that scares the sh#t out of me."
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Feel better now, Honey Boo Boo?



When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away." - Phillip Van Cleave (October 30, 2007)
Van Cleave is the president of the Virginia Citizen's Defense League (VCDL).
"There's no such thing as a good gun. There's no such thing as a bad gun. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a very dangerous thing. A gun in the hands of a good person is no danger to anyone except the bad guys."

-Charlton Heston, 15 Sept 1997, Fox News Channel
"Among Other Evils Which Being Unarmed Brings You, It Causes You To Be Despised"

The Prince, Niccolo Machiavell
"Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security."
— Norman Vincent Peale
Security without liberty is called prison.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws have guns.



"You cannot invade the mainland United
States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto



“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity” - Sigmund Freud


“An armed society is a polite society.”
Robert Heinlein

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
-Wayne LaPierre, NRA Executive Vice President




Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
-Benjamin Franklin


“Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self-defense.”
John Adams




"Laws can't control the lawless"
-Wayne LaPierre, NRA Executive Vice President


“The right is absolute … government has no authority to forbid me from owning a firearm … the debate is not about guns. It is about freedom.”
California State Sen. Tom McClintock, 6/9/2001




Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who comes near that precious jewel. Unfortunately, nothing
will preserve it but downright force. When you give up that force, you are ruined.
Patrick Henry

“The Second Amendment is not about duck hunting, and I know I’m not going to make very many friends saying this, but it’s about our right, all of our right to be able to protect ourselves from all of you guys up there.”
Dr. Suzanna Gratia Hupp, appearing before Representative Charles Schumer’s committee hearings on the assault weapons ban




“If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
Samuel Adams

“Though defensive violence will always be a ’sad necessity’ in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men.”
St. Augustine




“Americans have the right and advantage of being armed- unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.”
James Madison

“The fundamental force behind the Second Amendment is to empower the people and give them the greatest measure of authority over the tyranny of runaway government.”
U.S. Rep. Bob Schaffer, 2002




Dangerous laws created by well intentioned people today can be used by dangerous people with evil intentions tomorrow.”
Alan Eppers

“We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.”
Thomas Jefferson
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Wes:
That's silly logic. If you put yourself in a position that requires certain safety equipment, the yes, you should use that safety equipment. And it ain't my personal experience. It is the experience of every person I have ever known (except my bro-in-law who is a cop).

Think of a gun as safety equipment then and being alive as a position that requires certain safety equipment.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:13am PT
Wes:
And it ain't my personal experience. It is the experience of every person I have ever known

There is plenty of statistical data to support the idea that more regulation of guns will reduce gun homicides. Why be a moron and refer to your meaningless and nebulous personal anecdotal experience and that of your friends? I thought you were a science guy.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:18am PT
Think of a gun as safety equipment then and being alive as a position that requires certain safety equipment.

But it isn't. The cumulative years of "alive" in my sample population is 10's of thousands and the number of incidences where a gun was needed to protect it is ZERO.

What you are talking about is roping up at the trail head for a hike to Nevada Falls.

There is plenty of statistical data to support the idea that more regulation of guns will reduce gun homicides.

Yep. Many here are impervious to those kind of facts, so I was just playing along...
Should I list the number of times someone called the police and then was harmed by an intruder....
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:21am PT
Tens of thousands of people, even hundreds of thousands of people, will never be in a car accident that requires a seat belt. So the number of times they needed a seat belt to protect themselves is zero.

Should they not wear seatbelts?
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:23am PT
And there is a big problem with seat belts being used to strangle others.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:23am PT
If they don't want to, sure.

Seatbelts are not capable of falling into the wrong hands and killing dozens of people in a matter of minutes.


The biggest benefit of seatbelts is that my brother and bro-in-law don't have to scrape as many brains off the pavement or spend as much time rounding up body parts.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:31am PT
As long as we are playing along, I will share another personal experience.

When I was in my mid twenties I lived in a house in a pretty bad neighborhood with two other guys and a woman. One night, in the wee hours of the morning really, there was a ruckus outside on the street in front of the house. Some guy was beating the sh#t out of a woman and she was screaming for help. All of us woke up and rolled out the door. I think I grabbed a broomless broom handle on the way out the door. Other people were also pouring onto the street.

The perp recognized he was going to have a public relations problem and so he stuffed his semi-conscious and bloodied victim into his car and screamed off. In other words he kidnapped her.

This all went down in about 60 seconds, maybe even less.

If I had a weapon on that night and the proper training, and the right opportunity, I would have taken that mother f**ker out.

But I didn't.

The police were called. They took a report. Apparently no one in the neighborhood recognized either the assailant or the victim, and we never saw them again.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:35am PT
Wes:
Seatbelts are not capable of falling into the wrong hands and killing dozens of people in a matter of minutes.

I'm not saying seatbelts are like guns only that your citation of your personal experience and personal perceptions to make your point is foolish, especially for a science guy who is supposedly getting a PhD. Haven't they taught you anything about critical thinking yet?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:46am PT
The question remains unanswered - Is your nation so fuked up that it requires the citizenry to be armed to protect itself? If that is true I guess the great American experiment has failed huh?

Well move over then. Us Canadians and Ausies will take over leading the Free world.













































with our pea shooters and sea king helicopters
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 5, 2013 - 10:49am PT
Dropline, yeah, I know. Like I said, I was playing along. In my experience you can provide multiple scientific papers with clear sampling methods and clear statistically based conclusions, and people here dismiss them in favor of their personal experience... usually those who rant endlessly about how they should have unfettered access to killing tools because, well, because they say so and [insert whatever random paranoid thought pops into their head]. Clearly my personal experience is not relevant, but it reflects the national statistics... that most people will never need to use a gun.

If you disagree with my conclusion, provide stats to the contrary. I'm going climbing. peas
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 5, 2013 - 11:02am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#282368
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 11:08am PT
Bruce:
Well move over then. Us Canadians and Ausies will take over leading the Free world.

Ummmmmm, not likely. Our economy is more than ten times the size of yours and so is the foreign aid we provide. Does that mean the US is without problems? Not at all. We clearly have a gun violence problem. I'm not convinced that taking all the guns away from those who, as a matter of conscience, abide by the laws of the land will solve that problem though.

Does our gun violence problem mean we are not the leader of the free world? Hardly.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 5, 2013 - 11:12am PT
I was just pulling your leg. I generally agree. You just need to ban all the machine guns and regulate the hell out of the rest.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 5, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
The role of guns as self-defense is not incompatible with the regulation of guns.

The role of guns to support rebellion probably is incompatible with the regulation of guns, however, there is no right-to-rebellion guaranteed by the Constitution.

Confusing these two issues causes this unreasonable, hardened political position to be taken.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
jstan

climber
Jan 5, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
Three women die as gunman opens fire in Swiss village
Thu, Jan 3 2013
Gunmen in Pakistan shoot dead seven aid workers near capital
Tue, Jan 1 2013
Three New Jersey police officers shot; gunman reported dead
Fri, Dec 28 2012
New York gunman left note declaring plan to kill people
Tue, Dec 25 2012

At least four dead in Aurora shooting
By Keith Coffman
AURORA, Colo. | Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:26pm EST
(Reuters) - A gunman who barricaded himself inside a townhouse after killing three people in the home was shot to death by police on Saturday in Aurora, Colorado, the same Denver suburb where 12 people were slain in a movie house massacre last July, police said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/05/us-usa-shooting-colorado-idUSBRE90408W20130105

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