New startup for indoor climbing


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between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
Dec 18, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
many beginners have problems to improve their climbing techniques and cant’t reach higher levels of dificulities. Sometimes this can be so frustrating that they even stop climbing.

1.)Dealing with the difference between expectation and reality is part of growing up.
2.) Some people should stop climbing, it ain't for everyone.

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Dec 18, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
what a great invention, I hate having to use my brain to solve problems.

Dec 18, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
Rgold said:

On the flip side, if this eliminates having to listen to self-important as#@&%es bombarding you with beta unbidden, disguising the need to brag under a translucent veneer of helpfulness, then it could be, on balance, a pleasant addition to the social scene.


Didn't some gunks climbers use an old beta-max to film themselves back in the day? Then use that footage to critique their climbing move by move? Hence the modern term beta. I blame those guys for the "BETA SPRAYDOWN" that Rgold hints at so eloquently. Not saying I agree with it just pointing out some of the history of such things.

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 18, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
Trying to 'remember' your way up climbs is bad enough, trying to be another climber is worse than bad. Everything about this idea fundamentally misses the mark relative to how and why a person should learn to climb. As the French put it - "Bien dans sa peau" (comfortable in your own skin).

This elevates the seldom acknowledged climb-by-the-dots 'feature' of chalk use to a whole new level - mindlessness.

Big Wall climber
Dec 18, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
Level 12: When 11 levels just aren't enough.

Forget 8 minute abs, now there are 7 minute abs!

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 18, 2012 - 02:10pm PT
Good coaching rarely involves telling or showing someone exactly how to do something. Movement is a very individual thing, each person balances and moves in a unique and individual way. A good coach will help a person find the best way for them to do whatever it is they aspire to do, how a "professional" does it is not relevant as another "pro" will most likely do it another way.

Your "one size fits all" approach simply cannot work. You think your climber is frustrated because she cannot figure out the move? Wait 'till the laser diagram shows it to her and it's even harder.

A basic refinement would be to have a database of "pro's" at each increment of height from say 4'5" through 6'5" in 1/4" increments, and at each height have ape indexes from -2 to +5 and weight variations at 1/2 pound increments.

So to even come close to resembling the variables in the real world, you should plan to have scans of hundreds of "pro's" of various sizes climbing each route, then measure the parameters of the new climber to select the "pro" most like them. Oh wait, right handed or left? Long torso or short? Big feet or small? Edging shoes or slippers?

Dec 24, 2012 - 12:41am PT
Didn't some gunks climbers use an old beta-max to film themselves back in the day?

According to Wiki Beta-max was released in 1975. If it happened, it would not have been very BITD. I never heard of it. For the reasons above, if it was done, I doubt it was done much.

Beta is the second phase in testing. Its focus is not to implement features anymore, (it is called feature complete), but rather to improve its user-friendliness. Everything is taken care by beta-testers that are "usually customers or prospective customers of the organization that develops the software, willing to test the software without charge, often receiving the final software free of charge or for a reduced price."


Social climber
Dec 24, 2012 - 01:29am PT
Must every activity be dissected to death.

As mentioned, where is the place where you find your natural flow if every move is digitized.

Sorry, I just think this takes away from the activity rather than contributing.

If climbing just frustrates you in a gym, try climbing outside - sheesh. Or do something else.

Dec 24, 2012 - 01:36am PT

From wiki

The original use of the term Beta in climbing is generally attributed to the late climber, Jack Mileski. "Beta" was short for Betamax, a reference to an old videotape format largely replaced by the VHS format. This was actually a play on words, as Jack would often ask, "you want the beta, Max?"

Here's the full link.

Maybe my brain made the part up about those guys using the actual films. I swear I heard it somewhere though. Maybe just another climbing urban legend. Love to hear if anyone knows the full story.

Boulder climber
Dec 24, 2012 - 01:53am PT
This is kinda like the shake weight for climbing.....i dont get it!!

Way out there....
Dec 24, 2012 - 01:56am PT
The copy on your site is really bad. Please hire an editor.

Kind of a silly idea, sorry.

The comment about other uses like golfing, etc. seem much more plausible.

Gym climber
Graz, Austria
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
Hey everybody. Wish you all a Happy New Year.

Sorry for our late reply. And many thanks for participating in the discussion. We agree with all your concern. Due to previous research none of your concern was actually new to us.

The product is not ment to take away your creativity or your passion about climbing. It's only an add-on for inexperienced climbers. Nothing more ;)

Let's see if it works.

Anyway, greetings from Graz - the home of Arnold Schwarzenegger ;)

Matthias Heise

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
Jan 9, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
It seems like a solution looking for a problem, but perhaps it will be a hit with corporate offsite events? Lots of opportunities for co-worker heckling when you don't match the laser outline. Maybe a sensor on the wall can sound a buzzer or something when the laser contacts the wall because you aren't following it properly?

Mountain climber
Jan 9, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
Yeah like Operation!

This is crap as far as climbing goes but some morons will buy it no doubt.

Big Wall climber
El Portal/Chapel Hill
Jan 9, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
I want it at a techno show!

Sport climber
Feb 17, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
First of all: Big thanks to all of you who participated in our survey.

We took your input very seriously and tried to implement many of your suggestions to Level12. And yes, we realise that this might be interesting for beginners only. But still we are curious about your feedback.

With the additional information we created a new, professional demo video. Have a look at and let us know what you think (there's also a feedback form if you like).

Best wishes from Austria
Jasmin - Level12
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Feb 17, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
I like that shot of Picard. I'm always open to looking at new ideas though. I kind of think that climbing movement will invade the generic-type gyms more and more in the future just because climbing workouts are so bitchin.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Feb 17, 2013 - 08:21pm PT
According to Wiki Beta-max was released in 1975. If it happened, it would not have been very BITD. I never heard of it.


Neal Cannon penned a pretty damn good article about it back in the day. That was a long time ago man, like Mileski coined the term didn't he? 30 years ago.


Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 17, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
Austria eh? Throw another shrimp on the barbie!


Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Feb 17, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
Let's go next-gen... El Cap meadow at night with a high-power BetaLaser® projecting exact hand and foot placements for an all-free night ascent.
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