Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 12:21am PT
|
No Werner, it is Tom who is projecting complete and utter bullsh#t and his tract is absolutely no different than what Jones is putting out. Are you now as well stating you believe the killing of these children was part of a conspiracy? A simple yes or no will suffice.
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 12:34am PT
|
I wish there was more emphasis in the discussion on the cultural aspect to violence. What is in U.S. social order or currents of thought that leads individuals to find triumph in the infamy of killing innocents?
Yes, fewer guns would translate to fewer homicides.
But homicide rate doesn't correlate that well with gun ownership worldwide. The U.S. has eleven times as many firearms per capita in comparison to Brazil...yet Brazil has six times the firearm homicide rate.
(U.S.: 88.8 firearms per 100residents...2.98 homicides per 100,000 per year...........Brazil: 8 guns per 100 residents...18.1 homicides per 100.000 residents per year)
And a significant number of nations in the Western Hemisphere have worse or similar statistics.
Why do the citizens of several European countries with significant gun ownership...seldom take up arms against their neighbor while gratuitous, needless murder seems almost routine, here? Social inequity and strife, and gun numbers simply do not account for these callous, brazen attacks on innocents.
|
|
10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 12:36am PT
|
Tom, with that single post, I have quite unfortunately just lost all respect for you. You reveal yourself to be just another self-deluded Alex Jones whack job - really astounding to the point of being unbelievable.
+1
Tom, you must have been hanging around Bridwell
|
|
LilaBiene
Trad climber
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 12:38am PT
|
Norton:
I repeat:
I respect our difference of opinion, and objected simply to your approach.
If you call that being offended, I'm mightily surprised. But you are entitled to your opinion, as am I.
|
|
micronut
Trad climber
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 12:42am PT
|
Very thoughtful and thought provoking point Jennie. I hope some of the folks on this thread think about those questions and are willing to entertain thinking and posting about them.
For the record, I'm a country boy who owns a few shotguns, likes to shoot with my kids a couple times a year, and enjoys shooting a quail or three and having my wife cook 'em with some ginger and teriyaki every now and then.
I'm not a fan of fully auto, assault or even handguns really.
But I agree there's a bigger issue than guns and american gun control here. Those that want to argue gun control are definitely missing the big picture. But I'll stay out of that one, since people don't want to listen or compromise on that one really, on both sides.
Here's an interesting stat though. This needs to be in everybody's reason box when dealing with this argument.
Does this surprise any of you? Or change your frame of reference?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 12:42am PT
|
Are you now as well stating you believe the killing of these children was part of a conspiracy?
Nope.
That's why I said "its so subtle it's going right over the top of your head ...."
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 12:48am PT
|
Werner, there is no aspect of it which is "subtle" if any of it is serious. If it's not serious, then it's in just incredibly bad taste and a matter of poor judgment.
micronut, again, what is the rationale for claiming 100 million guns wouldn't be enough.
|
|
micronut
Trad climber
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 12:54am PT
|
Healyje,
I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'll try to read up thread and reply.
|
|
10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:00am PT
|
What has to happen in America is for a total change towards humanity to occur. For individuals to STOP with the violent video games, STOP going to movies that glorify violence, and STOP their global hegemony.
well said Tami.
unfortunately this country worships the vigilante.
people in this country, and on this forum think they are living in the 1800s.
I have lived in the big city for fifty eight years. I have only been robbed(for $10) one time. A gun would not have done me any good. I was out numbered 10 to 1. If I had a gun, was I supposed to shoot all of them... for $10?
jeeze people, guns are not a necessity. . . . . .for hunting people or animals
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:08am PT
|
i know very little about this shooting incident
i do know something about mind control and patterns of social manipulation
being directly associated with the federal government and 'intelligence community' isn't going to provide enlightenment on those subjects
no more than working at NASA is going to teach anything about USAF space programs and various related subjects of interest
i like to know the truth about things, although sometimes it is a privilege not to know
because if you know about something then you have some responsibilities involved
unfortunately the more dangerous and discreditable the truth, the more effort gets put into obfuscating, hiding and covering it up
in spite of all coverups, the truth sends out concentric rings of influence that can be examined...people in the intelligence community know that such patterns can leak even the best concealed secrets
that is why we are subjected to so much clever disinformation
if the truth is leaking, then there will be lots of similar disinformation also leaked...books, movies, myths, similar irrelevant events, etc...
that's why i beg you to do your own homework rather than believe anything i say
my basic theory about such things is that eventually the truth becomes known
i do my best, such as it is, to be pretty sure about something before voicing an opinion
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:11am PT
|
That's the third world,
With all merited respect to your contributions in this discussion, Mr Hedge...a third-world country refers to a nation with frail political structure and economy, Brazil is far from falling into such classification. It's one of the world's well-grounded democracies and the eigth economy on the planet.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:13am PT
|
Again, complete tripe - you've been staring at the space between the 0s and 1s too long.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:19am PT
|
I have lived in the big city for fifty eight years. I have only been robbed(for $10) one time.
Having a gun saved my skin a long time ago in rural Minnesota. It was not a robbery, and it was not in the 1800's but more like 1973.
I would never carry a gun in the city, even if it were legal which it is not. Where a gun can be invaluable for personal defense is in out of the way places where there is no chance of law enforcement support. Unlike Europe and UK, there are still a lot of really remote places out there in the US.
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:25am PT
|
This becoming a "discussion" in any way is so dis-heartening.
Are you all so emotionally disconnected that this conversation seems OK to you.
Just Wow. I have learned a lot about on-line personas from this thread.
|
|
pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:29am PT
|
There is nothing wrong with discussing this atrocity and it's impact.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:36am PT
|
There you go Tom, Werner - validation just doesn't get better than that. And you folks wonder why, in a world where people just make sh#t up and go with it, that things like this happen.
P.S. NWO, for your purposes, yes, I am a highly-trained, well-paid, disinformation specialist contracting with the government.
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:40am PT
|
For fuks sake, examine your grief in the real world, with friends, family - real people.
The whole medium of "on-line discussion" about events like this is ironic to me.
This is not a real world, it is a climbing forum. As such, one is not exactly "reaching out to the greater world".
Microcosm wake-up call.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:45am PT
|
Just like to take a moment to note that even as the authorities seemed to be careful about what information they released, much of the initial information about the incident has turned out to be wrong
The name of the shooter, the relationship of the shooter's mom to the school, which weapons did the killing, and more
It's always that way, when something goes down, there's a fog about the events.
which makes the whole fuss about Susan Rice's statements about Benghazi seem silly
Peace
Karl
|
|
10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2012 - 01:56am PT
|
The Civil war would PALE in comparison to any attempt to revoke the 2nd amendment. Not even Obama is for more gun controls.
so you would actually kill your fellow citizens so you could keep your guns.
i feel sorry for you
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!