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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 22, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
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Traditional Dental Insurance for the individual who does not belong to a group plan through work is a zero-sum game.
Period with a capital P if you need lots of real work in any given year.
Monthly premiums north of $100 per month and yearly payout caps below $2000.
So, alternatively, where's the catch with these Dental Plans?
***(This is NOT Dental Insurance: it is access to dentists who discount their services)Ie. http://www.dentalplans.com/
Fees are $100 to $150 PER YEAR and 20% to 70% discounts provided by dentists who participate.
Hard-sell closers on the phone selling the plans: clearly at that yearly rate they are nothing but a referral service to dentists who wish to discount their rates in order to get a steady flow of customers/patients.
So where's the catch? What's the profile of this group of participating dentists look like?
(Obviously I'll be interviewing a bunch of them to help answer this question).
For instance:
Are the participating dentists largely those just out of school looking for a start?
Is this also where the dentists with bad records go to get referrals?
… With perhaps a small sprinkling of sympathetic dentists who are simply philanthropic?
Is it perhaps likely that the more your needs trend within the specialties the more likely you would want to stay out of said plans and their dentists?
(Third option for the indigent, which I essentially am although my wife works, is state-sponsored dental aid for which I've qualified in the past but the restorative dentist whom I have seen for the past 13 years says that their efforts have in my case, been palliative at best).
For the dentists reading this:
I have severe bruxism, have undergone deep planing/oral surgery in all four quadrants to abate periodontal disease along with multiple bone grafts, use a night guard/splint which needs adjustment once or twice per year, have had braces to straighten everything out and been equilibrated multiple times. I'm currently looking at 11 onlays, and need an implant. I am beset with a highly acidic ecology so I'm susceptible to chemical erosion and plenty of buildup. I need and get cleanings four times per year: two with the Perio and two with the General/Restorative dentist. Over the last year and a half I skipped doing some resin/composite fillings and have gone through the dentin, so no more stopgaps. Those teeth are damn near flat anyhow so it's time to do the Full Monty.
The bill for the needed onlays and tooth removal/bone graft/implant is about $18,000. Essentially cash pay in my case.
Same as it's ever been, that's with health insurance in place, and with multiple ongoing health issues requiring a cash-out refinance of the house to pay for prior medical adventures.
So I've been with these two dentists (Perio and Restorative) for 13 years and although I've been confident with them I need to shop around a little bit downtown you know what I mean?
Question for the dentists please:
Given my ongoing deficit from bruxism and attendant and unrelenting susceptibility to periodontal disease will general dentistry and a perio suffice or should I wisely stay confined to one who practices/specializes in restorative dentistry to do these onlays and keep an eye on the stabilization of my condition in the future? If so, are the plans and their pool of dentists going to be a liability for me?
If I want to continue with the foundation in which I've already invested and keep my teeth is venturing into these plans an insensible risk?
Do any of you readers in Boulder Colorado have similar difficulties (bruxism and periodontal disease) and also use a dentist who belongs to one of these plans whom you might recommend?
Who out there has an experience with dental plans (not dental insurance) and their participating dentists?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 22, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
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I see my dentist once a year.
Cleaning and x-eays run about $160.
Last year, I needed a filling replaced. That was about $150.
The most expensive thing ever done in my mouth was a crown, which cost about $900.
I don't see how dental insurance is a good deal for me.
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Gal
Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
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Nov 22, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
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Yes, being in AZ, and recently having some bad tooth pain, I am going to attempt to go to Mexico. I have friends who had great results at a lot less of the cost. I'm nervous about it, but will be trying out this "Dental Plan" soon...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 22, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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I swear by Mexico for dental, TJ dentists are great
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 22, 2012 - 04:22pm PT
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You can't complain about corporations off-shoring their workforce to save a few bucks, if you're willing to do the exact same thing with your dental work.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 22, 2012 - 05:36pm PT
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Difference between sending jobs offshore and dental work offshore is that government policy encourages off-shoring jobs, just ask Mittens.
Government policy does not encourage off-shoring dental work.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 22, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
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So reduce the corporate tax rates and remove the primary incentive to offshore jobs.
Dental insurance is usually a scam.
You end up paying half or so and you can make the same deal as the insurance companies with your dentist yourself.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 22, 2012 - 07:28pm PT
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It is not high tax rates here that push jobs offshore. US corporations pay taxes on offshore profits (with a credit for foreign taxes paid). However, they are able to defer these taxes indefinitely if the profits are kept offshore. Because of deferral there is an incentive to go offshore rather than remain in the United States. Eliminate deferral is all that is needed. Rommney wanted to eliminate taxes on offshore profits.
Sheldon Adelson pretended to donate money to Gingrich for Newts support of Israel, truth is Adelson has billions of dollars offshore from his Macao casinos, taxes are deferred on those profits. Adelson desperately wants to bring that money back here, but will owe millions in taxes. Adelson makes like one million dollars an hour off his casinos, and wants to pay no taxes.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Nov 22, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
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two words: tribal enrollment
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Nov 26, 2012 - 10:28am PT
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HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA.......
INSURANCE?........PLAN?..........WTF IS THAT?
My teeth are rotting out of my head and I owe my dentist thousands....life sucks sometimes.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Nov 26, 2012 - 11:00am PT
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well if you can't muster sufficient blood quantum to be elevated above the fray, try this:
within the army reserve are detachments of dentists (most in competing private practices from a given regional area) who go out on summer field exercises as part of their reservist duties, descending upon remote (presumably) under served areas to set up clinics that take on all comers in hopes of testing and demonstrating readiness to perform in war.
that's how i got a couple wisdom teeth out ... anaktuvuc pass, in the brooks range.
seems like a long way to travel without an appointment, but i knew there would be cancellations cuz a native village contains probably the least underserved bunch of teeth they could have encountered.
i was four hours in the chair. the dentist took to kneeling on my arm rests in what became a blood and sweat soaked smock. other dentists would casually ease on over for a look see and quickly recoil with a grimace and groan.
though i felt like a well hooked marlin, i declined any further anesthetic so numbed was i by gratitude for such a fortuitous opportunity to avoid healthcare debtor's hell.
as a result of my case they added three more tools to the equipment list.
when he was done my guy was hustled off the field of battle directly to shower and recovery accompanied by a kind of murmured ovation of respect from his peers
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Nov 26, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
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Dude! Quit torching money like you got it and end this vanity quest! Get the pliers and few hundred bucks and sort your self out. There are tons of these guys all over. Grab the yellow pages, give up on corn on the cob, and start embracing apple sauce.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 26, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
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Take care of your teeth...if you don't it's a zero gum game.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 26, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
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Yeah locker, and they got hungry a half hour after he worked on them,..
Hey Roy,
good to hear from you, sorry about the teeth.
I just had 2 molars pulled and will get implants on the "Mutual of Ron" plan.
Sux, but not chewing sux worse.
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FTOR
Sport climber
CA
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Nov 26, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
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in sf $1700 for a canal, $1200 or so for a crown. $3k for a tooth? seems the going rate for admittedly high end work here is $1k/hr. given most (my) dental coverage maxes at $1k/yr after only paying 80% in the first place, a lot of that is coming out of pocket. guess that new bike will have to wait. healthcare reform anyone?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Nov 26, 2012 - 01:01pm PT
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Locker...That Gundam style is a good workout...I'm all sweaty...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 26, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
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My late mother retired from dentistry after 50 years, got her degree in 1942 and retired in 1992, looking in people's mouths for 50, no thanks.
However, after my dad died in 1956, she had four children to look after (me, 5 months old, Mary 18 months, Mac five years and Casey, 12. Nancy was lost at seven in 1953 to polio).
So it was impractical for her to have her own practice (she never remarried), looking after kids, patients, staff, accounts, suppliers, etc, so went to work for other dentists. She never charged the heavy sums one sees nowadays (especially here in Ireland. Many people either go to Northern Ireland or a dental holiday to places like Budapest).
Where's Guido on this thread? Being a dentist, Joe may have some answers for you Tarbuster.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 26, 2012 - 01:19pm PT
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Just my .02...
If you're getting multiple actual implants (i.e. original teeth extracted) then be sure and work with a real Oral Surgeon who has done hundreds before you and has healthy references. NEVER, EVER, EVER, go to a dentist or any other glorified dentist specialty (perio, endo). I've seen the results of this when things go sideways and the dentist doesn't have the skills to fix things and nobody else wants to touch their f'ed up work. With that many implants, things WILL go sideways and you need a real surgeon.
Also, after extraction, it's essential to allow the site to heal completely before performing the implant placement. This will likely take up to 6 months. Do not allow anyone to talk you into doing a one-stop shopping experience where they extract and place the same visit.
Sorry, can't help your finances but if you're going to do this, do it RIGHT. Don't try to save a few bucks in this case.
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