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Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 7, 2013 - 11:28am PT


Right after I posted the above it hit me that the problem was most likely equally as there, just that it hadn't been discovered yet...


Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 7, 2013 - 11:30am PT

BINGO!!! = "Best thing is to just stay away from processed foods."...

"it didn't get messed with until the mid 70s"...

Not positive, but I believe that the bleeching/processing of Wheat happened well before the 70's...

But just as my post moments back was wrong, so could this one be...

I could look it up...

Just being lazy at the moment...


here's another interesting bit on WHEAT...
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 7, 2013 - 11:41am PT
one view of the body is that it is an ecosystem which supports a vast microorganism population, which lives more or less in symbiosis with the host (that's you and me)

antibiotics kill off that community in your gut and I believe there are findings that unless the community is restored intentionally, it may not reestablish itself

but I'd assume that your doctors know that

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
May 7, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Sounds like all ur orifices are failing u
Sorry to hear it
Best of luck

Boulder climber
May 7, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
Colonoscopy. could be colitis
patrick compton

Trad climber
May 7, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Everyone has a balance of candida and probiotics. Your symptoms sound like candida overgrowth.

To keep candida in check, the best, but not necessarily easiest way is to cut out ALL sugar for at least 2 weeks or so. You can also take a herbal supplements to nuke the candida. Also take broad-spectrum, high quality probiotics.

You will detox and get headaches, but you will feel AWESOME in two weeks! FWIW, my hardest sends were coming off a sugar cleanse.

Refined wheat is jsut one thing that conversts easily to sugar, but there are many others including healthy sounding things like fruit juice, but fruit is ok cuz the fiber slows absorbtion.

I have been keeping canidida in check for many years. Do a google, and PM me with questions.

Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
May 7, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
I've been on sugar, gluten, and lactose free diet for over two months. Taking vit B, D, multi, fish oil, probiotics, borage oil, betamine HCl, and digestive enzymes. Can't eat potatoes, corn, or fruit. No alcohol or vinegar. Any deviation, and I am very sick. Like yesterday when I had some beed sup.
Scoped from top to bottom and bottom to top. Blood and fecal tested.

Fun, hahaha!
patrick compton

Trad climber
May 7, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
So, it isn't your first rodeo.

Have you tried caster bean oil? It is seriously bad-ass, but like I said you will detox like a mofo. Start with one three times a day and build to 3 times a day with food, and take probiotics in between meals.


SF bay area
May 7, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
So which works better, prebiotics (fiber from fruits,vegies,greens) or probiotics (cultured dairy products)?

Here's a vid of an experiment to compare the two (set to start at 38 minutes):

Over a week's time, prebiotics works considerably better. Probiotics had little effect.

So eat your fiber from whole plant sources. Good gut bacteria thrive on soluble and insoluble fiber.
patrick compton

Trad climber
May 7, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
Good point. I get 50-70% of my calories from raw food smoothies via Vitamix.

patrick compton

Trad climber
May 7, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
Also, gluten and COW dairy free. Sheep and goat don't give a problem.

I am, however, drinking half a hoppy IPA per day to build reisistence to beer and trace amounts of wheat. It is going well and I haven't had the inflamation issues I have had in the past.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
May 7, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
Have they tested your gut/stools for presence of "Clostridium difficile"?;

People often get this when a course of antibiotics kill off the other gut bacteria, but only this (antibiotic resistant) strain remains.

If you have this, there is finally a good treatment for it, although it sounds disgusting at first. The trick is to reintroduce the original mix of gut bacteria, which will "crowd out" the Clostridium difficile.

Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
May 7, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
I will try fecal transplant, just need to convince the wife to be the donor. She is not enthusiastic to the idea and neither am I. Needs to be done, though.

Garlic helps me, but my diet is just ridiculous. The same meals over and over.


Mountain climber
pac northwest
May 7, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
Tons of high quality probiotics (refrigerated supplements in capsules) + more raw food, especially apples + camomile tea + whey protein powder or greek yogurt + green tea + large doses of vit C + multi-vitamins + antioxidant supplements + raw Garlic. Unless you have serious infection, this should hopefully work.
Eliminate anything containing "natural flavors" (they're as bad as artificial), no sugars (use Stevia instead, to sweeten), no preservatives/additives/fillers in foods (any kind of "modified starch", etc) , no canned foods.

Wheat and gluten aren't as bad as they paint them (wheat being main European stable before importation of potatoes from Americas)--it's just a matter how much and what quality. If you eat high quality (organic, real whole grain, stoneground, pure stuff) it's one thing...regular bagel is another thing... Ancient grains, including ancient varieties of wheat (Farro grain, Spelt), and in limited quantities (not 3x a day) are nothing but good for you. If you have real gluten allergy (very small chance), you'd know it long time ago. In general, instead of buying "bread products" that are usually full of crap, even from Whole Foods; instead, cook your whole grains as in "porridge". The thing about ancient breeds of wheat (widely available now), is that they didn't undergo further selective breeding to increase easy carb/bad starch content. As to "breads": organic, whole grain (and possibly sprouted) corn tortillas are available for pretty cheap now as bread substitutes.... The good breads/tortillas have only 2-3 ingredients: flour (or corn masa), salt and water (also, lime for corn stuff). If there's anything else, it's junk, mostly.

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 7, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Garlic kills bacteria and fungus. Anything fermented helps restore the right bacteria. If you're off of dairy try dill pickles, sour kraut, kimchee, miso and other fermented soy products. Refrigerated supplements in capsules work well too.

The amount of fish oil seems to make a difference. My big breakthrough was reading that large amounts of fish oil cured inflammatory bowel disease when nothing else did. I started taking 5 big capsules (2.5 mg) twice a day and got instant relief. Like you all my tests were negative and the doctors then tried to tell me it was psychological. If I had told them it went away with fish oil, they would have concluded that for sure.

Another very important aid is folic acid, especially if you've had giardia or any other malabsorption problem. Try 5 mg for a few days and see if that helps. There's something called tropical sprue which is poorly understood that affects the small intestine and is cured by folic acid (you don't have to be in the tropics to get it).

Another thing they check for is cryptospiridium. It's a parasite like amoebas that is hard to get rid of. The problem is, the diagnosis is only as good as the lab tech. I've never had a western lab tech find any of this yet in Nepal and India they do. It depends on what they're used to looking at. If they don't find anything, the western doctors won't treat you. State Dept. and Peace Corps doctors do three tests and if they're all negative and you're still sick, they treat you anyway.

Mountain climber
pac northwest
May 7, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
My landlord just ended up on antibiotics for gut infection and ended up pretty much in a bad state after all antibiotics, kind of as OP described...the thing is he eats absolutely anything...if there's anything crappy sold in food store, he loves it and will eat it....and the dude is a multi-millionaire. I got him eating yogurt, finally...he thought "Jellos" were the same thing as yogurt...Docs told him to eat probiotics, but he thinks it's some kind of "high tech fancy thing", so, he's eating buttermilk now. I told him he better off eating organic food now instead of canned tuna junk...he laughed so hard when I said there's "organic chicken" out there. Eww...! Makes me mad. He thinks "doctors" will fix him without him putting any effort in eating well! We're responsible for own health... I've been studying nutrition for a long time now, and stayed away from any doctors for 15 years after they almost killed me. Anyway: "Apple a day..." now means "Organic Apple a day"...keeps the medical leech away (I found that 2lbs of apples a day works even better)

It's funny how they post in Yosemsite how bears get sick from eating human food...The things is most human diseases come from modern "human food" aka "pseudo-food". Bears eat raw foods in a natural state and are very healthy...

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
May 7, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
Have you been checked for giardia? Your symptoms are similar to giardia (and a bazillion other things).

A link.



Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 7, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Wow, an amazing amount of voodoo, pop medical mythology, and the usual rasher of anti-science in this thread. But the C. Difficle thing is very real and there are folks working on a less socially inconvenient response.

But you really do need a specific C. Difficle diagnosis to bother with a fecal transplant as it's not a general cure.

Have you been checked for giardia?

If he had Giardia he wouldn't be typing away on the computer, he'd be doubled up in a ball cramping away on an ER table, or at least I was - it certainly isn't a subtle infection.

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
May 7, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
Wasn't there a song back in the 70's about a girl named Candida?

May 7, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
HealyJ said:
"fecal transplant"

Whoh. I'm be into supporting a "don't ask don't tell" policy on this one. I suspect that there are many supporters with web sites and photos for the devotes, NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.... I'm sure.
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