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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada
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May 23, 2006 - 02:46am PT
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BVoyles, I was very glad to hear that you are ok (heard it at the gym). Hope you are climbing again soon. No way you have to climb again for your card! You should only have to test for belaying since you did not get that far. Better to find out there was a problem with rope inside that outside!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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May 23, 2006 - 02:52am PT
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I had those same thoughts about that rope pattern, but I don't look at new ropes except when I need one.
Something weird really did happen.
The way the ends look is exactly like the way the ends looked an a rope I broke pulling a a superbeetle out of a ditch with a suburban, For whatever that's worth.
still leaning toward some chemical involvement.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 23, 2006 - 02:55am PT
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Knowing how much I have depended on a rope lately in my climbing, this is really scary sh#t... hopefully BD can put it together and determine what happened.
The development of high integrity ropes for climbing has been a hallmark of these last few decades. We take it so much for granted that it is hard to believe what we see in that picture and hear in that story.
Glad you escaped with just a bit of soreness BVoyles.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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May 23, 2006 - 03:03am PT
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BVoyles, you said "I believe it [the broken rope] is going to be sent back to BD."
Is this a BD (Beal) rope? Very odd indeed.
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BVoyles
climber
Davis, CA
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May 23, 2006 - 03:55am PT
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WOW, you guys are hard to please. I think some kid was having his birthday party at the time; maybe there are some five year olds we can interrogate??? haha.
Anyways, here is some final proof.
http://brvoyles.smugmug.com/photos/71106760-L.jpg
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BVoyles
climber
Davis, CA
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May 23, 2006 - 03:58am PT
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It is a BD rope.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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May 23, 2006 - 06:02am PT
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BVoyles, How's the Vicodan holding up?
If this is a true story, that is scary. Maybe free soloing ain't that bad after all.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 23, 2006 - 09:06am PT
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Radical, that is not true.
IF a rope were exposed to an acid, then it could appear normal at a glance, but all the fibers in the acid treated cross section might be as mush, just waiting for any load to pull them all apart at once.
Physical structural damage such as cutting or abrasion is much easier to spot.
It seems fairly clear that something happened to this rope that the owner is not aware of, but that is just my speculation.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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May 23, 2006 - 09:21am PT
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Is it possible it was caused by the Solar Flares we had a while back?
Juan
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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May 23, 2006 - 09:48am PT
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Maybe the gym dog or cat pissed on it. Odd looking break, I think your buddy forgot to tell you he used that rope to pull out his buddies truck.rg
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nickh
climber
St. Louis, MO
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May 23, 2006 - 09:49am PT
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The doctor said you had an unremarkable pelvis. HaHa.
Glad your OK.
NickH
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Hootervillian
climber
the Hooterville World-Guardian
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May 23, 2006 - 10:46am PT
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one thing is for sure. that is the most legible 'half of' a release form that i have ever seen.
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mike hartley
climber
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May 23, 2006 - 11:16am PT
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FYI - While rope manufacturers do have a great safety record, its just not accurate to think that there is a zero chance of a manufacturing defect. In the outdoor education/ropes course world there was a very well known case of a brand new French rope (I’ll leave the name anon) with a defect where the core would rupture at ~1000 lbs (happened around 1995). I know the program and staff who discovered it first hand and they were both professional and very experienced.
The ropes were new, cut from the same 1000’ spool, and used in a double rope system on a ropes course element with very low impact force. The ropes did not actually part but the core of one rope ruptured in 5 places and the other rope in a couple. If it hadn’t been a double rope system the rope most likely would have broken. There were no storage or chemical exposure issues. I saw them and the sheaths looked squeaky clean and new.
What came out during the investigation (several rope manufacturers and an independent lab were involved) is that something went wrong during the heat-treating process. Wottles can speak to this much better than I but, as I understand it, some manufacturers use a very controlled autoclave process. Some use a steam system where the rope fibers pass before a jet of steam. If the “conveyor” controlling the travel speed has a voltage drop the rope may travel slower yet the steam temp remains the same and the fibers can get cooked. I’m working on an old memory here but this was the suspected culprit.
Whether or not the details of the cause are completely accurate, the fact that there is at least one well documented case of a defective rope being made that wasn’t subjected to abuse, age, or ignorance is fact.
I still rely on the odds of getting a bad rope being so low that I’m way more worried about me screwing up than the rope breaking.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 23, 2006 - 11:42am PT
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"What's with all the anonomous posters???? "
I've been posting on this site for years. And I'm still anonomous? SHHhhheeeezzzz. I guess I need to start some bloody flame wars or something.
And if anybody still wants to bet on it being a hoax, I'm all-in.
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Ain't no flatlander
climber
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May 23, 2006 - 12:59pm PT
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Mike, IIRC and we're thinking about the same incident, those ropes had also been shipped back and forth across the Atlantic a couple times on container ships. So there were also unanswered questions about storage conditions.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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May 23, 2006 - 01:26pm PT
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I am with hoax, or rope history understated. Like just a few short *factor 1* falls. And 3-5 years old, with maybe a lots of trips and plenty of top-roping. Rope might have looked "better than the gym" top-ropes, but who in his right mind would lead on one of them - we do not let them go a full year do we?. I thought the partial form was interesting too.
Cooperative trolling is usually more convincing than single efforts. I guess folks consider it less probable.
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BVoyles
climber
Davis, CA
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May 23, 2006 - 01:36pm PT
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One more thing. Someone mentioned the touchstone employees being 'confused'. I landed on my back and then proceeded to roll onto my left side as I could not breathe. The employee (I'll leave his name out of this) who was watching the test immediatly grabbed me and held down to keep me from moving more while I regained my breathing. He supported my back which caused a noticable drop in pain. He talked me down, which was a great help as I was pretty freaked. I do not know what went on elsewhere, but the ambulance was there within 5 minutes of me hitting the ground. I am pleased with the response from pipeworks, ambulance, and hospital. The manager of pipeworks called me yesterday and had a lot of kind things to say. I am planning on going back to the gym this week so I can thank the employee that was watching the test.
I have to thank the experienced climbers at the gym as well as the members of this site. The concern and interest means a lot. Feel free to say hello if you see me at the gym.
This is starting to sound like an awards speech, but I just wanna say how great my friends are as well. My sister, two roomates, and climbing partner all waited at the hospital for me and it meant a lot when I was released and saw them all there.
OK, enough sappiness. I'll let you all know what I hear about the rope.
Brian
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sean stitt
Sport climber
sacramento
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May 23, 2006 - 01:38pm PT
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I am as close to an "official" as you will probably hear from on this forum. I have worked for Touchstone for ten years and I am personally responsible for setting up a lot of the systems we currently use.
This accident did happen in Pipeworks in Sacramento.
I have personally inspected all of the gear EXCEPT the rope and read all of the witness statements.
This is a unique accident because it was a lead test. So there was an unusual amount of focus on the climber by multiple sets of eyes.
For the record - there was absolutely nothing wrong with the carabiner. It is a DMM keylock steel bent-gate carabiner. The keylock means that the rope was very unlikely stuck in the gate. That is exactly what keylocks are designed to prevent. And we only use steel biners in our gyms because our routes simply receive too much traffic for aluminum. I have personally seen an aluminum biner over half way worn through after only a month of use. There were no burrs, or sharp edges and there was minimal wear to the biner.
Furthermore, the gear on the route did not "pin" the rope down anywhere creating a higher fall factor. All witnesses reported seeing the rope break over the final carabiner as the rope came taught and then watched the rope fall down the wall through the gear with the severed 6 feet still attached to the climber. The route is overhanging throughout and it would be nearly physically impossible for a draw lower on the route to have pinned the rope.
ROPES DON'T BREAK. Once you store or handle your rope improperly, which is my opinion of what happened here, you no longer have a rope, you have a weapon. Use a rope bag. Store your rope properly. Don't wash your rope with anything more than a mild soap - no detergents!
We will all have to wait for BD's analysis but I would bet the farm that they will find chemical degradation of some kind.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 23, 2006 - 01:40pm PT
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Well several serious players in the rope industry have an interest since the pic was posted, one has written me about it, and the rope is going to it's maker eventually, and the faller has posted his name, so, if it is a hoax, there will be hell to pay for someone.
I just feel that this is for real now that there is a rope, it is being tested, and someone came forward and said here I am, I fell on it, it broke.
That is a credible scenario.
Incidentally, I have heard from a small bird that the rope APPEARS to be cut, from the photo. This small bird is an expert who wishes to remain anon, and further expressed that to be certain they woud have to see the actual rope.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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May 23, 2006 - 01:40pm PT
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Its a fact that most climbing ropes manufactured today are made in third world countries such as China.
Juan
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