Subject: Low-Load Climbing-Gym Fall Results In Rope Rupture

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Messages 161 - 177 of total 177 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
the ville, colorado
Jun 13, 2006 - 07:40am PT
Radical, I don't think B.D. makes ropes. I'm sure they just put their name on them & call it good. They are sitting in Saltlake right now trying to figure out who has the liability. If were a chemical problem it would have been announced ASAP.You hit on the head "they are lazy".rg
dufas

Trad climber
san francisco
Jun 13, 2006 - 09:08am PT
It is hard to believe that rope manufacturers don't have some type of process/product integrity certifications, something like ISO 9002? Certification doesn't exclude the lone maniac doing something homicidal, but those processes should be airtight (at least I hope so!)

Lack of response if they didn't find anything obviously wrong is expected. imagine if word gets out that a good rope failed without reason. yikes. BD just had some scrapes with bad publicity, so their reticence is kind of justified if this is the case.
dirtineye

Trad climber
the south
Jun 13, 2006 - 09:44am PT
You idiots should be ASHAMED.

So, it is lazy to take your time and cover every base, and work to find the real mechanism of failure?

I suppose many of you would be in a lynch mob, never mind of the lynchee were guilty or not, if you could find one.

So many scenarios are being explored, you have no idea, you are clueless for the most part, and yet you feel justified to vilify people and companies that are doing a good and thourough job to find the truth.

Wnat a bunch of WANKERS.

I wish rope companies would refuse to sell you guys climbing rope, and let you make your own.

The company that makes rope for BD is one of the TOP in research and publications about rope, and they make some of the most innovative ropes on the market.

I'll be buying a set of their doubles as soon as I need another, and I will gladly climb on thier products.
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Jun 13, 2006 - 09:51am PT
Beal makes ropes for BD.
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Jun 13, 2006 - 09:55am PT
i'm pretty certain they could give a rat's ass if one guy who can't just sit tight and wait for the testing results ever buys one of their ropes again.



oh, and by the way, sh#t happens.

if you tell yourself, and your family, that you always climb safely and nothing will ever happen to you, you are not telling the whole truth. once in a while something fails when you least expect it. it may not be likely, but it does happen. so one kid's rope broke, big deal! sure i'd like to know why, but if that happened more often i'd pay more attention. experience tells me that in general, unexplainable spontaneous rope failure is not one of my primary safety concerns.
Ain't no flatlander

climber
Jun 13, 2006 - 10:45am PT
"Beal makes ropes for BD."

Currently. But not when that one was made. There haven't been any BD-labelled ropes sold for a couple years now.
Moof

Trad climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Nor. CA
Jun 13, 2006 - 10:46am PT
"It is hard to believe that rope manufacturers don't have some type of process/product integrity certifications, something like ISO 9002? Certification doesn't exclude the lone maniac doing something homicidal, but those processes should be airtight (at least I hope so!)"

I'm in aerospace/defense. We build parts for some pretty serious weapon systems, sh#t you don't breaking. We are ISO9000 certified and all that jazz. We pass our audits with flying colors twice every year. I shake my head often at the things we ship. Our design guides are out of date and often innaccurate, not that anyone follows them anyway. Many procedures meant to assure quality are followed loosely.

ISO 9000 and it's kin are little more than lipstick on a pig. You need a culture of quality and accountability, not some fancy sounding program to assure quality.
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Jun 13, 2006 - 11:13am PT
i din't say i wanted it to happen-
i said i am not concerned about it happening
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Jun 13, 2006 - 11:17am PT
to put it in terms of your career, you're advocating that somebody attack the first major symptom they see, rather than check every possible scenario before moving on. this is how you end up w/ corpses w/ pretty bandages on the chest and arm.(patient bleed out through the femoral you didn't see while you were "attacking the big issues")

i'd assume the gym owners, hold manufactures, carabiner makers, as well as the rope manufacturer are happy that the guys at the lab aren't jumping to conclusions on this one.
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Jun 13, 2006 - 02:26pm PT
so where in the line up is family notification, or CDC if it's something communicable?

that's basically your place on the totem pole. i know you want answers quick, but i'd much rather they fix the issue first with whichever manufacturer is to blame. if that means you're not notified "in a timely manner" i'm fine with that.

let's say it's not the rope to blame. do you think they'd even be legally allowed to make a statement?

edit: removed dumb ad hominem crap, plenty of that on the board arleady
fattrad

Mountain climber
bay area
Jun 13, 2006 - 02:32pm PT
radical,

You asked Mutt "are you nuts", the answer is yes!!!!!!!

Jody's evil twin.
crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Jun 13, 2006 - 03:02pm PT
Maybe this is a stupid question, but were the belay devices of the belayer and the climber looked at? I don't know what they were using but ATCs can develop some pretty sharp edges. Sorry if this was covered before I haven't had time to go back and read all the posts and was wondering.
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Jun 13, 2006 - 03:05pm PT
rather than babble and speculate all about their testing procees (that you don't even pretend to be familiar with, am i right?) why don't you burn some of that energy and call them up on the damn phone? looks from here like you would rather scream "fire" than ask what the funny smell is.
dirtineye

Trad climber
the south
Jun 13, 2006 - 03:13pm PT
Riley, LOL, CHILL!!!!

This rope thing is NOTHING like emergency medical. You know
that.

Look, IF the rope that broke had been in new, or even just normal use but apparently good condition, the responses from the companies involved would have been much different.

BUT, the rope was NOT in anything like good condition!!! People who have seen it, and posted RIGHT HERE about seeing it, said they would not feel good about using that rope.

First and formost, I want to know HOW the rope got the way it is now. Hell we all do. But that will take time.

The problem is further complicated by the lack of an obvious cutting mechanism. That must also be identified.



In the meanwhile, climb on ropes in good condition, that meet manufatureres specs for allowable age, and have taken a good bit fewer than the limit on falls.

Is that so much to ask, until we can get ALL the answers?

heidi

Ice climber
cham / UK
Jun 13, 2006 - 04:13pm PT
...I have to admit, it seems weird and scary, and I would like to believe that the rope was crappy in some way other than by manufacture. Otherwise, it's going to be hard/impossible to go for that move that I might take a whipper on, 15 pitches up. I had a beal rope with loads of sudden soft spots and a loose sheath after only a couple reasonable sport falls (over no edges) and they were really helpful and professional. The beal dude (whoever the ropes are named after...mr. Beal? no really!), wrote me a letter and my rope was apparently ok. (Don't use it anymore though, creeps me out.) I'm sure they will let us all know asap, and if not, I will call that Mr Beal guy here in France, and send him a link to this thread, so he knows we're all waiting! : )
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada
Jun 13, 2006 - 11:26pm PT
dufas wrote "It is hard to believe that rope manufacturers don't have some type of process/product integrity certifications, something like ISO 9002? Certification doesn't exclude the lone maniac doing something homicidal, but those processes should be airtight (at least I hope so!)"

dufas. Try going to Beal's website. http://bealplanet.com Wow! Look it's amasing! They have a ISO-9001 logo / cert. What does ISO-9001 mean? Try going to this website. http://praxiom.com/

I am not saying that this is a perfect QA system. I do not know for a fact who was making the ropes that BD was selling three years ago (the rope that failed is supposed to be three years old). I am climbing on a Beal rope that I bought two years ago from BD. I am hoping for a comprehensive response from BD or the rope maker. Still waiting.
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada
Jun 14, 2006 - 09:17pm PT
Update link to message posted by Largo. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=208532&f=0&b=0
Messages 161 - 177 of total 177 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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