Respecting local ethics...thinking Internationally


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Trad climber
Sydney, Australia
Oct 13, 2012 - 05:11am PT
Excellent and balanced article from R&I.

Always make sure your "local" is local, I guess...
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 13, 2012 - 06:23am PT
Jim, absolutely no sarcasm intended. It might creep in, it's Friday.

Have you ever read Talk To the Hand: The Utter Bloody Rudeness of Everyday Life (or Six Good Reasons to Stay Home and Bolt the Door)?

It's a recent endeavor by Lynne Truss, author of Eats, Shoots, and Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation.

Of course, she's a hero of mine, since she, like myself, I feel, has very good things to say about topics which ordinary people don't give a damn about.

It isn't my place to elaborate. Others, including the darling of dots and dashes herself, are better equipped, since I HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK. Don't you hate it when some jerk starts telling you about some book he hasn't read? I do.

One thing I will do is to put up a link so you can familiarize yourself. It's polite elephantism to the middle rank. You're welcome.

I want you to know I enjoyed her words in that link immensely. "Forensic polemic" (Here is where I tell you you heared it hear first) is a description of what Lynne wirtes. I got to luv this Great Brit, she's got true grit. A reg'lar little Mattie Ross. The rest of her words about her other efforts are hilarious.

For example,
Making the Cat Laugh, first published in 1995, is a collection of columns from The Listener, The Times and Woman’s Journal. By contrast with Eats, Shoots & Leaves, this book had quite abysmal timing. They now deny this, but my publishers did argue with me when I suggested, in 1995, that there might be quite a big market for funny books about single women in their thirties. Oh well. Making the Cat Laugh was published in a low-key way, sold out quickly and that was that. And a year or so later, along came the wonderful Bridget Jones, with the result that, for the next ten years, any funny book by a woman that wasn’t about a single woman in her thirties (such as my own Going Loco) was seen to be insanely out of step, and was marketed as chick-lit regardless.

Back on topic.
Credit: turd
Remember that time that turd told the story about the Spanish guys having the American on about the turd in his pocket? And he reached in to check it out? And the turd yelled out "I'm still in here!?" And the Spanish guys yelled out, "Viva la mierda!?"

That was awesome.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 13, 2012 - 10:32am PT
We may be in the Circus Room Bar making a mountain out of a molehill, one of Batso's proclivities.

Long live Low Sierra Proclivities!!!

And High Sierra declivities!!!!

And funky funded foreign climbing activities?

(Best I can muster, without aid. All-nighter, Jim.)

Oakland, CA
Nov 2, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
Looks like a wave of apologies coming from TNF crew:

Rap and retro bolted. Ouch.

Hard to swallow the "it's our interpreter's fault" excuse. Rap bolted a line AND retro'd over long-established traditional lines?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Nov 2, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
Corporate apologies are like ptpp apologies, insincere and meaningless.


Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Nov 2, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
Sport climbing is now nicely settling in with the same sort of maturity as Chlamydia.

Big Wall climber
Barcelona, Spain
May 13, 2013 - 04:33am PT
There is a strong discussion here in Spain going on with last Sharma route project in Montrebei (Catalunya-Spain). He is opening one of the most difficult wall lines in the world, or maybe the most...which is amazing, but bolting the whole 300 meters line in an area where bolts are restricted to exceptional cases.

Personally I am fine with his initiative but some people believe there is a wall ethic that must be preserved.
Comments are written in Spanish or Catalan, sorry about this.
Todd Eastman

Bellingham, WA
May 13, 2013 - 09:17am PT
When climbers were re-branded as athletes by the sponsors and paraded around in cute little teams this crap was soon to follow.

Climbing had long been the realm of the anti-athlete; a far more fit and adaptable specimen than the athlete!

Long live the climber!

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 13, 2013 - 09:36am PT
This is a topic that applies to mountains as well as rock faces. Many of the same arguments have appeared on the Fisticuffs on Everest thread. The visiting outsiders with more skills and attitude offended the locals. In that case, the locals banded together to stop it and then most in the international community cried foul, because of the threat of violence. Individual visitor's rights in that case versus the livelihoods of thousands.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
May 13, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
As the planet shrinks we must celebrate those who climb clean.

Do great things, leave no trace.

How bad do we need a V8 boulder problem on the side of El Cap? ...or anywhere?

If the local ethic is to rap bolt clean crack, that ethic is still idiotic, no matter what location

What Spider Savage said! Well, at least strive to leave no (or as little as possible) trace of your passage. Yes, leave no trace is an impossibility, but an ideal we could all strive for.

solution: hand drill.

I've seen Jim Waugh put a 3/8" x 2 1/4" in under 3 minutes during an August electrical storm on Babo. Deuce put an unknown size in 1 minute flat on flat ground. It can be done.

It is because you are weak and your skirt is blowing up in you face if it takes longer than that.

If you go to an area (that accepts bolts in the first place), you drill by hand, and go from the ground up there are far less chances to screw a route up and piss people off.

Better yet, 'shoes, shirt, and rack on your back' and do the damn thing without a single hole in a day and you gain respect from climbing peers anywhere in the world.

And, what rick d said!

Boulder climber
May 13, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
I agree with Todd proud to be a climber...not an fact i started due to my lack of athleticism...

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
I was totally down with the local ethic in Sweden - Climbing Cat's Cradles.

Credit: Reilly

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
May 13, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Toprope Heaven - Courtesy MAKB and
Toprope Heaven - Courtesy MAKB and
Credit: ydpl8s
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
May 13, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
This is why I love Mexico so much. We have miles and miles of big unclimbed walls and anything goes. You want to climb it trad? OK! You want to place bolts? OK! Ground up? OK! Top down? OK! No need to go through a committee!

The only "rule" we have here is we don't mess with other people's routes.

Hobart, Australia
May 17, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
Regarding my timed bolt placements, it was 47 seconds to place a 1/4" by 1 1/4" Rawl buttonhead (drill the hole and place the bolt) in Cochise Stronghold granite. That was in prime position everything laid out on a flat stone in the campground. It was pretty much the same in Yosemite granite. On route, I could generally place a bolt in a few minutes given a good stance. In sandstone, 3/8" bolts x 3" deep took about 2-3 minutes. The Waugh record of 3 minutes for a 3/8" in granite sounds amazing--don't think I could have drilled a 3/8" that fast in granite.

On route, it's all a matter of stance. Even with a pretty wired drilling technique, I recall spending about a very painful and tedious 1/2 hour placing a 1/4" Rawl on a ridiculously difficult stance on the Autobahn crux pitch (one foot on the tiniest smear, the other foot dangling, no handholds) because I could only get a few hits before having to readjust my stance (over the roof).
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