Respecting local ethics...thinking Internationally

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donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 27, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
Yuri Kruglov reports from the Crimea that a visiting American North Face Team violated strongly held local traditions in establishing a new route on 300 meters high Morcheka, one of their premier traditional crags.
Bolting on abseil seems to have been the major infraction. I don't know the details, so I won't draw conclusions regarding this particular case, but it leads me to some questions.
Climbing, more than ever, has become an Intrernational activity. With modern transportation and the Internet, more and more climbers are road tripping, not just to a neighboring state or province but to far flung countries.
Some areas have extremely strong traditons and ethics- think of the sandstone towers in the former East Germany. Some areas, like Patagonia, never established local ethics or traditions before being overwhelmed by climbers from worldwide. In Patagonia power drills and bolting next to cracks are commonplace.
Questions:
1) I think everyone agrees that local traditions should be respected, but, who knows, maybe someone has a dissenting opinion.
2) What about areas, like Patagonia, that became worldclass climbing venues before ethical
standards and traditions could be established. In the end, all climbing resources become
expendable. There is only a finite amount of quality climbing terrain on this shrinking (and
warming) Planet. Should we somehow try to work cooperatively on an International level to
try to ensure that future generations of climbers have the same resources that we currently enjoy?











survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 27, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
I wouldn't show up someplace overseas and start rap bolting.

I don't even do that in my own country. Too many established lines that I can't climb already....heh..heh...

But yes, local traditions should be respected in all cases. Consult with the locals and gain their acceptance.

I don't care who you're sponsored by.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Sep 27, 2012 - 03:54pm PT
locals rule, the rest are just visitors. do as the __ do else ya might get popped!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Sep 27, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
yes we should.

In 30 years I don't want to have to skip bolts just so I climb Czech sandstone like it was done back in the day.

what does the right balance look like?

what existing examples are there to model after?

does the division become territorial (this side is abseil, this side is GU)

or by committee, keeping a Zoo-like preservation area of traditional ethics, while the rest is abseil?



JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 27, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
I'm not sure it's possible for future climbers to have the same resources we have, if only because the quantity of unknown rock diminishes over time. Pushing a new route when you don't know if it goes -- particularly if the protection is also unknown -- requires a different skill set from climbing on a known route.

While I doubt that I've made even 1/100 of the first ascents Jim has made, I've done enough FA's to know the fear of leading in the face of uncertain difficulty, rock quality and protection. The ability of future generations to experience that challenge is something that I doubt we can preserve.

As for rap-bolted routes in areas where that is outside the mainstream, there's always the Dawn Wall "erasure" treatment.

John
10b4me

Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
Sep 27, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
so what NF sponsored climbers have been in there lately?
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Sep 27, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
Hard time making that happen here, why bother internationally?

Oh wait, some trustfunders are vested in say Patagonia, so the rest of the climbing world should care?

Pfft.

Rap bolt it all.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Sep 27, 2012 - 04:35pm PT
As the planet shrinks we must celebrate those who climb clean.

Do great things, leave no trace.


How bad do we need a V8 boulder problem on the side of El Cap? ...or anywhere?

If the local ethic is to rap bolt clean crack, that ethic is still idiotic, no matter what location.


Cat Spray: The stink of uncastrated felines.


MH2

climber
Sep 27, 2012 - 04:46pm PT
With modern transportation and the Internet, more and more climbers are road tripping,


Not to mention corporate sponsorship. Which you did.

You are teetering on the existential edge, Jim Donini. A sure sign of aging.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
MH2 do you know about my corporate sponsorship? I've had very little. I've gotten a fair amount of free gear and I've parlayed some climbs into articles for which I have been paid but I've never been on an all expenses paid expedition like the ones the North Face sponsors. I've had to work for my adventure.
Most importantly, I've never taken a power drill to Patagonia and put in bolts next to cracks. I've done quite a few new routes, some pretty long, in mountain ranges around the World. The sum total of bolts I have placed on those routes is 4, all hand drilled. The last time I even brought any bolts on a first ascent was 1976- you can't use what you don't have.
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
I have a huge rack of big bashies and wooden wedges! I'm ready to do new routes!

Who's with me???!!!!???!!!!

Mucci???

Jim?

(((crickets)))
crunch

Social climber
CO
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:14pm PT
Yuri Kruglov reports from the Crimea that a visiting American North Face Team violated strongly held local traditions in establishing a new route on 300 meters high Morcheka, one of their premier traditional crags.

That's maybe part of the problem. There's no names, the climbers in question are a visiting "North Face team."

Most likely the exact same climbers, as individuals, are great people, and as individuals would take time to learn, respect and go with local ethics. Why visit a new place otherwise?

Sometimes sponsorship (free flights? Free gear?) can create a sense of obligation to perform. To do stuff that will look good in the blog the sponsors provide.

Most climbers choose climbing in the first place because it does not have the strict rules and teams and all the formality that goes with golf, or tennis or athletics. So we're not always well equipped to deal with the stress that can come from being given free stuff by reps with big smiles and bigger pockets.
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:20pm PT
Where the Hell is my free stuff?

That's what I wanna know?

Hello??? Anyone???

BTW, Crusher is right on with his assessment. Throw some money at some people and they start to feel the pressure to produce. Tit for tat so to speak.

OH, and Jim is a troll.

Chef Wade

Trad climber
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
At least it wasn't Redbull again. Theres some pretty well known climbers on that TNF trip, it would be a shame to hear thats who is pissing off the locals.
fsck

climber
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:28pm PT
they should call the route Crimea River









i'll just see my way out....
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
WWCD? I remember reading, a few years ago, about a grotesquely mechanized and expensive sponsored trip to spectacular new routes in Antarctica. I remember feeling kind of sad that a beautiful chance was lost to us all; the chance that those routes and peaks might, left alone for a bit, have been approached in the graceful and thoughtful way that Charlie Porter might have taken. So I ask myself, when it comes to many action choices, "What would Charlie do?" WWCD? Gosh, I'm such a romantic.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:42pm PT
Tomorrow, Matt and I are waking up at 5am to repeat our journey. Only this time we'll be carrying a drill, bolts, and more ropes. Another Epic Adventure awaits.

http://www.neverstopexploring.com/blog/2012/09/crimea-the-great-fairytale-adventure-story-.html







Hmmmmmmmm, maybe we need to revisit the Spanairds and their atrocity in the Fishers. Seems there are some "Sponsored paid for Amerikans" doing the same B-shet over there.

Pathetic.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:47pm PT
Matt Segal, Cory Richards, and I (Emily Harrington) have bolted a new line on a beautiful feature called the Sail, while Cedar Wright has bolted another route on a neighboring wall with Sergey.

http://adventureblog.nationalgeographic.com/2012/09/10/climbing-crimea-emily-harrington-on-getting-up-everest-and-off-to-crimea/
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:51pm PT
Boy, Natl Geo is in on this as well.


Gotta love the new world of climbing. Get it done to make that buck, spray it and get the fame at all costs. Get them numbers.

And Roadie says it aint a sport.....



Now what was that essay old Messner wrote some decades back....hmmmm.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 27, 2012 - 05:52pm PT
I have a huge rack of big bashies and wooden wedges! I'm ready to do new routes!

Planning some FAs in Spain Jeremy?
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