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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 27, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
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Yuri Kruglov reports from the Crimea that a visiting American North Face Team violated strongly held local traditions in establishing a new route on 300 meters high Morcheka, one of their premier traditional crags.
Bolting on abseil seems to have been the major infraction. I don't know the details, so I won't draw conclusions regarding this particular case, but it leads me to some questions.
Climbing, more than ever, has become an Intrernational activity. With modern transportation and the Internet, more and more climbers are road tripping, not just to a neighboring state or province but to far flung countries.
Some areas have extremely strong traditons and ethics- think of the sandstone towers in the former East Germany. Some areas, like Patagonia, never established local ethics or traditions before being overwhelmed by climbers from worldwide. In Patagonia power drills and bolting next to cracks are commonplace.
Questions:
1) I think everyone agrees that local traditions should be respected, but, who knows, maybe someone has a dissenting opinion.
2) What about areas, like Patagonia, that became worldclass climbing venues before ethical
standards and traditions could be established. In the end, all climbing resources become
expendable. There is only a finite amount of quality climbing terrain on this shrinking (and
warming) Planet. Should we somehow try to work cooperatively on an International level to
try to ensure that future generations of climbers have the same resources that we currently enjoy?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
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I wouldn't show up someplace overseas and start rap bolting.
I don't even do that in my own country. Too many established lines that I can't climb already....heh..heh...
But yes, local traditions should be respected in all cases. Consult with the locals and gain their acceptance.
I don't care who you're sponsored by.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Sep 27, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
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yes we should.
In 30 years I don't want to have to skip bolts just so I climb Czech sandstone like it was done back in the day.
what does the right balance look like?
what existing examples are there to model after?
does the division become territorial (this side is abseil, this side is GU)
or by committee, keeping a Zoo-like preservation area of traditional ethics, while the rest is abseil?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
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I'm not sure it's possible for future climbers to have the same resources we have, if only because the quantity of unknown rock diminishes over time. Pushing a new route when you don't know if it goes -- particularly if the protection is also unknown -- requires a different skill set from climbing on a known route.
While I doubt that I've made even 1/100 of the first ascents Jim has made, I've done enough FA's to know the fear of leading in the face of uncertain difficulty, rock quality and protection. The ability of future generations to experience that challenge is something that I doubt we can preserve.
As for rap-bolted routes in areas where that is outside the mainstream, there's always the Dawn Wall "erasure" treatment.
John
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
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so what NF sponsored climbers have been in there lately?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
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Hard time making that happen here, why bother internationally?
Oh wait, some trustfunders are vested in say Patagonia, so the rest of the climbing world should care?
Pfft.
Rap bolt it all.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:35pm PT
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As the planet shrinks we must celebrate those who climb clean.
Do great things, leave no trace.
How bad do we need a V8 boulder problem on the side of El Cap? ...or anywhere?
If the local ethic is to rap bolt clean crack, that ethic is still idiotic, no matter what location.
Cat Spray: The stink of uncastrated felines.
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MH2
climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:46pm PT
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With modern transportation and the Internet, more and more climbers are road tripping,
Not to mention corporate sponsorship. Which you did.
You are teetering on the existential edge, Jim Donini. A sure sign of aging.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
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MH2 do you know about my corporate sponsorship? I've had very little. I've gotten a fair amount of free gear and I've parlayed some climbs into articles for which I have been paid but I've never been on an all expenses paid expedition like the ones the North Face sponsors. I've had to work for my adventure.
Most importantly, I've never taken a power drill to Patagonia and put in bolts next to cracks. I've done quite a few new routes, some pretty long, in mountain ranges around the World. The sum total of bolts I have placed on those routes is 4, all hand drilled. The last time I even brought any bolts on a first ascent was 1976- you can't use what you don't have.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:14pm PT
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Yuri Kruglov reports from the Crimea that a visiting American North Face Team violated strongly held local traditions in establishing a new route on 300 meters high Morcheka, one of their premier traditional crags.
That's maybe part of the problem. There's no names, the climbers in question are a visiting "North Face team."
Most likely the exact same climbers, as individuals, are great people, and as individuals would take time to learn, respect and go with local ethics. Why visit a new place otherwise?
Sometimes sponsorship (free flights? Free gear?) can create a sense of obligation to perform. To do stuff that will look good in the blog the sponsors provide.
Most climbers choose climbing in the first place because it does not have the strict rules and teams and all the formality that goes with golf, or tennis or athletics. So we're not always well equipped to deal with the stress that can come from being given free stuff by reps with big smiles and bigger pockets.
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Chef Wade
Trad climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
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At least it wasn't Redbull again. Theres some pretty well known climbers on that TNF trip, it would be a shame to hear thats who is pissing off the locals.
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fsck
climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:28pm PT
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they should call the route Crimea River
i'll just see my way out....
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Woody the Beaver
Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
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WWCD? I remember reading, a few years ago, about a grotesquely mechanized and expensive sponsored trip to spectacular new routes in Antarctica. I remember feeling kind of sad that a beautiful chance was lost to us all; the chance that those routes and peaks might, left alone for a bit, have been approached in the graceful and thoughtful way that Charlie Porter might have taken. So I ask myself, when it comes to many action choices, "What would Charlie do?" WWCD? Gosh, I'm such a romantic.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:52pm PT
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I have a huge rack of big bashies and wooden wedges! I'm ready to do new routes!
Planning some FAs in Spain Jeremy?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:54pm PT
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Sick!
Love those guys!!!
They crush everything from EVEREST to Pebbles.
JEREMY
I am bringin the Hydrabeer, you get your chizzles sharpened.
Oh, and bring yer mom, cuz I heard she is good with the WOOD.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
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Hi, my name's Tad Stoneworth, and I just got a fully sponsored trip to Crimpistan.
We'll be sure to get a lot of use out of our fully stocked Bosch kit, and we'll be rapping with the hottest new gear.
Please make sure to check out our blog with all our sick FIRSTS!!
I'd like you to meet my partner Rip Shreddington.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:06pm PT
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Dude,
I send on the suds.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:09pm PT
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Meet your team.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:23pm PT
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i am 100% with Donini on this..
yup i've been sponsored over the years..
yup i have drilled many many bolts, by hand, by drill ground up and some top down.
yup i have been busted by the rangers for drilling, on lead on el cap. we never added a single new bolt to the Muir wall, we replaced anchors and added few bolts on variations..
when i go to a new area i respect the traditions of that area..
this is a trend now, these modern sponsored climbers need to keep doing these climbs and promote them to get paid and live the life they want. nothing wrong with that except when it impacts the local environment or ethics of that area..
so it will be interesting to find out who these cats were and what the logic was behind the ascent.
KS
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MH2
climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:41pm PT
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Wasn't talking about you, Jim. I was surprised by the downbeat tone of the OP.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
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That's incredible, Jim. You never cease to amaze me.
One of these days I hope to tie in with you.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 27, 2012 - 07:09pm PT
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Yes, the more respectful corporately sponsored climbers that have carbon footprints bigger than Sasquatch are sooooo much more ethical.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Sep 27, 2012 - 07:39pm PT
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Crimea climbers do have different ethics but they post clips to youtube
just like us.
At 3:00 min into this vid a climber whips out a paintbrush and paints
the name of their new climb onto the rock face next to the belay tree
after 1st using a wire brush to scratch the surface clean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip4RPYQrKik&NR=1&feature=endscreen
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
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M of K, more than two views in a lot of countries. No, not more important but, because cultures and languages can be so different, misunderstandings are more prevelant when climbers travel to different countries.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Sep 27, 2012 - 08:37pm PT
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solution: hand drill.
I've seen Jim Waugh put a 3/8" x 2 1/4" in under 3 minutes during an August electrical storm on Babo. Deuce put an unknown size in 1 minute flat on flat ground. It can be done.
It is because you are weak and your skirt is blowing up in you face if it takes longer than that.
If you go to an area (that accepts bolts in the first place), you drill by hand, and go from the ground up there are far less chances to screw a route up and piss people off.
Better yet, 'shoes, shirt, and rack on your back' and do the damn thing without a single hole in a day and you gain respect from climbing peers anywhere in the world.
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orangesporanges
climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 08:44pm PT
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When you're up to your neck
Style is everything
Fall like a man
Drown in the dust
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vlani
Trad climber
mountain view, ca
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Sep 28, 2012 - 05:19pm PT
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Whole Morcheka controversy discussed, in Russian, here:
http://www.risk.ru/users/blondie/195596/#c233671
From what I read the main mistake NF team done was taking a 'local' guide Sergey who is a great climber and all that but lives in St Pitersburg some 700 miles from Crimea and different country all together. Big part of the blame is on him, for not learning what locals feel about their rock. Sergey has spent a bit of time climbing in the area and has done some great things - like freeing old aid lines. But seems like he did not pick much of the local's ethics.
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vlani
Trad climber
mountain view, ca
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Sep 28, 2012 - 06:01pm PT
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Tami there is no language barrier between Ukrainian and Russian climbers. In fact folks in Crimea usually speak better Russian that Ukrainian.
It is more of a case of 'Imperial' thinking on a side of Russian climbers who take Crimea rock for they own back yard.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Sep 28, 2012 - 06:41pm PT
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Thanks for that link, vlani!
Below's a bad quality, auto translation, excerpt from the Russian thread. They do mention this ST discussion, btw. And Sergey, who accompanied the NF team, is posting there, too. The complaint seems to be "top down" rap bolting, done by outsiders, not respecting local tradition.
Blondie 7:41 p.m. 9.27.2012
In this incident, there are two precedents - one small and one large. Small - spoiled the existing route. Big precedent - what happened - the first and only project Morcheke when the route is made from the top down, not bottom-up. Violated an unspoken agreement about Morcheka - territory free from such projects. If this precedent is left unchecked, then soon all of our routes will be surrounded by such projects as Morcheka not rubber. Therefore, the precedent left unattended will not.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Sep 28, 2012 - 08:20pm PT
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Therefore, the precedent left unattended will not.
Classic.
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Guangzhou
Trad climber
Asia, Indonesia, East Java
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Sep 28, 2012 - 10:29pm PT
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While I have not traveled or put up as many FA's as Jim, I have to agree, most countries have more than one point of view and ethics.
Bolting, not bolting is always a hard decision. I've only used a hand-drill a couple of times. I prefer to avoid them, if we have the technology to place a safer and better bolt, and the person putting in the bolt is willing to lug the extra weight up the pitch, I see no issue with it.
I don't bolt cracks, just can't bring myself to it, but I have lead face climbs on gear, bolted a belay station, and on the rappel made it a bolted climb. Especially here in Indonesia and Southern China.
Here in Indonesia, local climber form "clubs" pitch in money to buy gear. A climb of 15 people may own a rope, 4 pairs of shoes a few harnesses, and a collection of slings and biners that they all share among themselves. When I arrived, I donated 2 dozen QD and a rope to the local club so they could climb more.
Same was true in China.The limestone towers I was climbing offer protection on some places. Not everywhere. Bolting routes meant that local climbers, who often relied on foreigners to establish routes, could actually climb. Developing fully bolted routes also meant that the areas could have a couple of hundred routes instead of four lines 3 hours from the nearest city.
In general, I agree, if a route can be free of bolts, I prefer it that way. I don't believe no bolts should ever be placed. Think Glacier Point Apron or Stone Mountain, how many great routes wouldn't exist without bolts on those two formations alone.
Respecting local ethics is fine, I prefer to discuss them with locals and try to understand why they are what they are.
In Indonesia, I often find cracks with bolts and climbers are still beating angles into cracks when free climbing. I am not willing to do either. A few climbers here think I don't bolt cracks because I am selfish and don't want locals to climb them, or that I am showing off because I trust nuts and cams when leading.
Bolting, like things in climbing, isn't a cut and dry issue. The more a climber travels, the more grey areas they are for him to interpret.
I've met several climbers over the years who say bolts should go in Ground up. Or bolts should be hand-drill only. When I asked, most of them haven't put up a single FA.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Sep 28, 2012 - 10:40pm PT
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Guang, thanks for this insight that most people would never consider. In most parts of the world, no one could afford to do this sport. Aside from the difference in people's income, they would have to import all the gear. Sharing gear in a club is a great way to do it, and that's just not going to be feasible with trad gear. I would personally have no probem with people bolting all the routes so the local climbers can do them. Although our trad climbing ethic is integral to the sport and should not be lost or limited to the USA. It's essentially the wilderness ethic of packing out your trash and not wrecking the place any more than you have to.
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Guangzhou
Trad climber
Asia, Indonesia, East Java
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Sep 28, 2012 - 10:49pm PT
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I agree, and I still leave plenty of routes as trad. Again, routes a=that are mostly crack, I tend to leave unbolted. Even the face climbing pitch between the crack pitches if they take gear.
The local cliff I developed has 70 routes roughly. 6 of them are trad routes because they were cracks. One of the sport routes had a crack for the last 20 feet, I placed a bolt on it to keep it consistent. (60 Meter Route)
In general, if I think I'll need to bolt a route, I prefer to rap-bolt. Rap-bolting means I can place the bolt in the best place.
The local gear has a set and a half of my old Camelots and two set of fairly new nuts from me. They use the cam to do easy aid, A1 A2 stuff, but they don't believe people should fall on cams. Working on it.
Only guessing, but Columbia most be a hard place for local to get started in climbing too?
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ElbrusRace
Mountain climber
Saint Petersburg, Russia
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I am following mentioned by Vlani discussions at Russian www.risk.ru during good few days and it is not quite clear for me what "local ethic" was violated by TNF and Sergey...
I directed some questions to proponents of "ethical violations" but was not able yet to get clear answers....
Sergey is not a just "'local' guide Sergey who is a great climber and all that but lives in St Pitersburg some 700 miles from Crimea and different country all together" He is climber of new generation who is opening idea of free climbing to eastern climbing society. So that is quite reasonable that he was the one who introduced Crimea mountains to TNF. This year he spend in total 7 months climbing at Crimea!!
IMHO:
Sure there are some people, whose opinion was violated in some way, but it is still quite not obvious if the personal opinion is the "local climbing ethic"!
Sure there are plenty of climbers having quite different opinion and supporting Sergey Nefedov position
It seems the conflict is not about "ethic violation" but rather between "fathers" and new generation of climbers different view to what climbing in Crimea is (or perhaps even what the climbing is at all)
I am not going to say that one's or another's party position is correct on not - I just wonna say - it is not so clear and obvious case!!
(I apologize for my English)
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Crusher wrote-"Sometimes sponsorship (free flights? Free gear?) can create a sense of obligation to perform. To do stuff that will look good in the blog the sponsors provide".
I feel there is huge pressure on sponsored climbers to "perform", and get those articles written in the climbing mags; promoting various corporate sponsors.
A case in point:
Several years ago, a large North Face team went into the Wind Rivers, and a few months later, there was a large, centerfold spread in climbing magazine.
The article featured a "new" 16 pitch, 5.10 route up Ambush Peak. In fact,these guys had climbed a route I had done with John Bouchard 16 years earlier.
I would excuse the error; except that there was a photo of this free route and an old mixed line I did many years earlier, published in the AAC, ONE YEAR PRIOR, to the writing of the article in Climbing.
I was a little shocked; to say the least; and couldn't fathom how there seemed to be no research, prior to the writeup. A simple search of the AAC would of exposed the line.
Climbing mag. did correct the error, in the next issue.
I expect, as the sport evolves, corporate sponsorship, will even be more prevalent, and who knows where this will lead?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Just think how you would feel if a bunch of French climbers came to Yosemite with the attitude of imposing what they believed were international climbing rules for bolting. This would not be welcome at all.
It's great to see people connecting with Russians and Eastern Europeans. Has anyone ever used their titanium gear? Seems like a better material to me. Guang sorry I did not see your comment before regarding Colombia. Adventure sports in general are not popular in Colombia, mostly because the outdoors are dangerous and largely controlled by armed guerrillas. Aside from that, many people's first instinct would be to treat you as a tourist and they would be your paid guide. I am not speaking from experience in Colombia - in fact I think most of the climbing areas here are totally unexplored. There are too many mountains not to have them.
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garikgarik
Gym climber
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Hi i am new here and only registered to participate in this topic because the second side of the conflict is not present here, which is important to understand if there is a real ethic issue.
My point is that No ethics been violated and no harm was made to the rock itself, the only bad thing which creating the route named Cold-War made, was hurting Yury Kruglov huge ego.
Before CW route the only way to climb Morcheka was 40% skyhooking (artificial holes)and 60% of climbing, and Kruglov's route "Skyway" which was violated by one station is no exception it is a path of artificial holes imagine "Kompressor". Sergey and Cedar called Yury asking the permission to establish the station on Yury's route "Skyway" and permission was granted.
Now there is one route that can be just pure climbed. It is interesting and new and never been done before here. And the only way to make it was from Up to Down.
Mr Kruglov is a head of a local alpine governmental organization and is trying to rule and reign in the region, he personally has a lot of objections on other climbers activities in the region especially those who promote region for foreign climbers, who are not ready to make holes for skyhooks and other artificial points, who fix the old routes thus he acts like a whole bureaucratic routine machine.
For many locals here is clear, that mr.Kruglov wants to freeze all activities and initiatives in the region at least on the level when he was a climber, using so valuable reasons like ethics and environment.
Which ethics was violated and what is behind ethics and violation in that particular case? I can't see how exactly making a new, fresh and pure climb route can harm anybody.
The only real concern of Kruglov's i can agree with is that he doesn't want this rock to became a sport climbing gym place, at the moment it's a skyhook paradise and a good place for mountaineers to exercise their climbing skills.
With all due respect to the community and both sides of the conflict. Please excuse my English.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2012 - 10:07am PT
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Thanks for your input...that's the way an open forum should work- viewpoints from all sides.
When I started this thread I said I would not comment on this particular climb because I did not know all of the facts. I used the brewing controversy as a template to initiate a more general conversation.
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alvivanov
climber
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Hello,
My name is Alexey Ivanov. I want to say few words about traditions which kindly mentioned Mr Kruglov.
>>Anyone who ever been ещ the bottom of the face and climbed this iconic mountain is familiar with climbing ethics of Morcheka.
That's a lie. Big lie. I've been many times in there and never heard about this "rules". Mr Kruglov is highly egoistic person. Some years ago he was a strong technical climber. One of the best in that times. Now he represents local bureaucratic sport organization and by any means spoils anything what contradicts his personal believes and bias. Unfortunately this happens to some of best sportsmen. At some point of their life they are best. And then they get older and youth become better. And some of such sportsmen become acrimonious with an irritable nature.
>>Ethics declaration is also available online at http://www.mountain.ru/article/article_display1.php?article_id=5834 together with the list of Morcheka FA who are top climbers of Ukraine and Russia.
This declaration is posted on the 4th of October, 2012. Few days ago. Never published before. The list is really questionable.
>>P.S. I wish we had any climbing organisations backed by government )))
That's really showing Mr Kruglov attitude to climbing. He wants to be dictator in Crimea climbing.
My message is in that all these is not about respecting local ethics - all these about ego of Mr. Kruglov who is intentionally deceiving climbing society.
Thank you.
Alex
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 12, 2012 - 07:09pm PT
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"Locals" aren't always right, wrong, or informed when it comes to access, conservation and stylistic matters, and neither are "Outsiders". (Bearing in mind that the lines can get blurry.)
Whatever, better talk talk than war war, preferably before war war.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Oct 13, 2012 - 01:19am PT
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Just read Andrew's Rock and Ice piece on the subject.
The proposal that 'some climbers maintain coming top down is actually a way to minimize fixed protection' is a bunch of tripe.
Minimization comes from selective placement, and tired arms, not counting holes. The choice to selectively place bolts comes after the decision to go ground up or top down.
However, in as much as the ethic of ground up is to preserve the sense of adventure and keep the "murder of the impossible" at bay for as long as we can, then deliberately making run out routes top down is anathema.
Conflating ethical approaches with the goal of minimizing bolt counts is completely inapposite. By the way, bolt counts is a decidely aid climbing issue, not a free issue. So to use bolt counts as justification for a top down route to remain, just does not pass the sniff test.
Keeping traditional areas as ground up is really quite difficult in today's age where the collective group's safety and lowest common denominator seem to drive the 'fun' factor toward clip ups.
Many of us have cut our teeth on GU stuff and later decided to do some top down routes too, but there is an entire generation that has yet to be born that will never get the opportunity to try ground up efforts if we unnecessarily bolt everything we can via rappell in the next mere 20 years.
-Munge
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Oct 13, 2012 - 02:25am PT
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Sure there are some people, whose opinion was violated in some way, but it is still quite not obvious if the personal opinion is the "local climbing ethic"!
Sure there are plenty of climbers having quite different opinion and supporting Sergey Nefedov position
It seems the conflict is not about "ethic violation" but rather between "fathers" and new generation of climbers different view to what climbing in Crimea is (or perhaps even what the climbing is at all)
Yeah, f*#k all those people who established the lines ground up, and set the standard. Since new generation can pull harder, it is for sure OK for them to rap bolt and retro bolt existing lines to free climb them. If you pull harder than the dinosaurs from the past you can do whatever you want.
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Technogeekery
Trad climber
Sydney, Australia
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Oct 13, 2012 - 05:11am PT
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Excellent and balanced article from R&I.
Always make sure your "local" is local, I guess...
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 13, 2012 - 06:23am PT
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Jim, absolutely no sarcasm intended. It might creep in, it's Friday.
Have you ever read Talk To the Hand: The Utter Bloody Rudeness of Everyday Life (or Six Good Reasons to Stay Home and Bolt the Door)?
It's a recent endeavor by Lynne Truss, author of Eats, Shoots, and Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation.
Of course, she's a hero of mine, since she, like myself, I feel, has very good things to say about topics which ordinary people don't give a damn about.
It isn't my place to elaborate. Others, including the darling of dots and dashes herself, are better equipped, since I HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK. Don't you hate it when some jerk starts telling you about some book he hasn't read? I do.
One thing I will do is to put up a link so you can familiarize yourself. It's polite elephantism to the middle rank. You're welcome.
http://www.lynnetruss.com/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=13
I want you to know I enjoyed her words in that link immensely. "Forensic polemic" (Here is where I tell you you heared it hear first) is a description of what Lynne wirtes. I got to luv this Great Brit, she's got true grit. A reg'lar little Mattie Ross. The rest of her words about her other efforts are hilarious.
For example,
Making the Cat Laugh, first published in 1995, is a collection of columns from The Listener, The Times and Woman’s Journal. By contrast with Eats, Shoots & Leaves, this book had quite abysmal timing. They now deny this, but my publishers did argue with me when I suggested, in 1995, that there might be quite a big market for funny books about single women in their thirties. Oh well. Making the Cat Laugh was published in a low-key way, sold out quickly and that was that. And a year or so later, along came the wonderful Bridget Jones, with the result that, for the next ten years, any funny book by a woman that wasn’t about a single woman in her thirties (such as my own Going Loco) was seen to be insanely out of step, and was marketed as chick-lit regardless.
Back on topic.
Remember that time that turd told the story about the Spanish guys having the American on about the turd in his pocket? And he reached in to check it out? And the turd yelled out "I'm still in here!?" And the Spanish guys yelled out, "Viva la mierda!?"
That was awesome.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 13, 2012 - 10:32am PT
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We may be in the Circus Room Bar making a mountain out of a molehill, one of Batso's proclivities.
Long live Low Sierra Proclivities!!!
And High Sierra declivities!!!!
And funky funded foreign climbing activities?
(Best I can muster, without aid. All-nighter, Jim.)
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Looks like a wave of apologies coming from TNF crew:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/cold-war-in-the-crimea
Rap and retro bolted. Ouch.
Hard to swallow the "it's our interpreter's fault" excuse. Rap bolted a line AND retro'd over long-established traditional lines?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sport climbing is now nicely settling in with the same sort of maturity as Chlamydia.
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Juank
Big Wall climber
Barcelona, Spain
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May 13, 2013 - 04:33am PT
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There is a strong discussion here in Spain going on with last Sharma route project in Montrebei (Catalunya-Spain). He is opening one of the most difficult wall lines in the world, or maybe the most...which is amazing, but bolting the whole 300 meters line in an area where bolts are restricted to exceptional cases.
http://sensepell.wordpress.com/2013/04/23/montrebei-sharma-project-ii/
Personally I am fine with his initiative but some people believe there is a wall ethic that must be preserved.
Comments are written in Spanish or Catalan, sorry about this.
Cheers
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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May 13, 2013 - 09:17am PT
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When climbers were re-branded as athletes by the sponsors and paraded around in cute little teams this crap was soon to follow.
Climbing had long been the realm of the anti-athlete; a far more fit and adaptable specimen than the athlete!
Long live the climber!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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May 13, 2013 - 09:36am PT
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This is a topic that applies to mountains as well as rock faces. Many of the same arguments have appeared on the Fisticuffs on Everest thread. The visiting outsiders with more skills and attitude offended the locals. In that case, the locals banded together to stop it and then most in the international community cried foul, because of the threat of violence. Individual visitor's rights in that case versus the livelihoods of thousands.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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May 13, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
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As the planet shrinks we must celebrate those who climb clean.
Do great things, leave no trace.
How bad do we need a V8 boulder problem on the side of El Cap? ...or anywhere?
If the local ethic is to rap bolt clean crack, that ethic is still idiotic, no matter what location
What Spider Savage said! Well, at least strive to leave no (or as little as possible) trace of your passage. Yes, leave no trace is an impossibility, but an ideal we could all strive for.
solution: hand drill.
I've seen Jim Waugh put a 3/8" x 2 1/4" in under 3 minutes during an August electrical storm on Babo. Deuce put an unknown size in 1 minute flat on flat ground. It can be done.
It is because you are weak and your skirt is blowing up in you face if it takes longer than that.
If you go to an area (that accepts bolts in the first place), you drill by hand, and go from the ground up there are far less chances to screw a route up and piss people off.
Better yet, 'shoes, shirt, and rack on your back' and do the damn thing without a single hole in a day and you gain respect from climbing peers anywhere in the world.
And, what rick d said!
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adikted
Boulder climber
Tahooooeeeee
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May 13, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
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I agree with Todd upthread.....im proud to be a climber...not an athlete....in fact i started due to my lack of athleticism...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 13, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
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I was totally down with the local ethic in Sweden - Climbing Cat's Cradles.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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May 13, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
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Magic Ed
Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
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May 13, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
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This is why I love Mexico so much. We have miles and miles of big unclimbed walls and anything goes. You want to climb it trad? OK! You want to place bolts? OK! Ground up? OK! Top down? OK! No need to go through a committee!
The only "rule" we have here is we don't mess with other people's routes.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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May 17, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
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Regarding my timed bolt placements, it was 47 seconds to place a 1/4" by 1 1/4" Rawl buttonhead (drill the hole and place the bolt) in Cochise Stronghold granite. That was in prime position everything laid out on a flat stone in the campground. It was pretty much the same in Yosemite granite. On route, I could generally place a bolt in a few minutes given a good stance. In sandstone, 3/8" bolts x 3" deep took about 2-3 minutes. The Waugh record of 3 minutes for a 3/8" in granite sounds amazing--don't think I could have drilled a 3/8" that fast in granite.
On route, it's all a matter of stance. Even with a pretty wired drilling technique, I recall spending about a very painful and tedious 1/2 hour placing a 1/4" Rawl on a ridiculously difficult stance on the Autobahn crux pitch (one foot on the tiniest smear, the other foot dangling, no handholds) because I could only get a few hits before having to readjust my stance (over the roof).
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Yes for rebolting when neсessary
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