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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Sep 22, 2012 - 10:44pm PT
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Hell of a story. Glad you came out okay.
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Mousebob
climber
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Sep 22, 2012 - 11:21pm PT
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Well I'm glad you are ok.
Tramadol is widely known in the medical community as one medication that lowers seizure threshold. In an individual without a history of epilepsy, this is often not a problem.
However, combine exhaustion and dehydration (and thus most likely a minor electrolyte balance - which can induce seizures) and you have created the "perfect storm" that your docs described.
In the end, glad you are ok. Tthe situation could have been much worse!
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jcory86
Big Wall climber
Grass Valley, CA
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Sep 22, 2012 - 11:55pm PT
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Hey Travis, whooohooooo! My name is Justin. Oliver, a British soloist and I were the ones who ran up to the base of el cap. I jugged up to you and was working with Jon to get you lowered. Between communicating between you and YOSAR, Jon jugged up to the anchor to lower you. I short hauled you off the bolt and onto the line Jon was goin to lower you on. You had both your jumars attached and that was the biggest bitch to take off. Everything else was easy. You were a trooper man! Almost at the bottom you got it together pretty well and were able to make it over to the YOSAR rangers but were still very out of it. I let Pete use my phone to call your girl? She texted the next day saying you were ok! Pete, Jon, Oliver, Chris and hooted and headlamp flashed the chopper as you left the valley! You are one tough SOB and should keep following your dreams. We're all a team when we are dealing with the capitan. I know you would do the same! Take care, hope to see you back on the capitan soon!
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Sep 23, 2012 - 12:07am PT
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gnarly.
glad you're recovering well
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 23, 2012 - 12:56am PT
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Mousebob and jcory,
great 3rd and 4rth posts (respectively).
Hope ya got a good seat at the campfire.
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2012 - 03:39am PT
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Justin,
Thanks man. Really appreciate you helping me out. If you are still in the Valley, I'd like to meet up on Tuesday or Wednesday and get you a beer or 10. Shoot me a message!
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Guangzhou
Trad climber
Asia, Indonesia, East Java
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Sep 23, 2012 - 06:05am PT
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I was told once that 1 in a 100 healthy people will suffer a seizure at some point in their lives for no apparent reason.
Perhaps someone can speak up on this.
It makes the idea of soloing very spooky if it is true.
AP. I heard the same thing, right after I had my first seizure actually. I was in between classes prepping lesson for my next class when I suddenly woke up with a bleeding nose and a few teacher hovering over me.
Had my second while teaching some basic team building activities to my staff in the climbing gym. Collapsed mid-sentence I'm told. Lucky for me, I landed on the bouldering mat we were using for the activities.
Seemed to have one every three month while the medication was being adjusted. Seems alright now. Even with medication, I avoid belaying and when I do I use a gri-gri. I mostly top-rope when I climb, but sometime I can't avoid the sharp end either. I never rap without a belay and a partner who can get me down if needed.
Glad everything turned out alright for VegasClimber, things could have gone a lot worse, that's for sure. Hope it's a once in a lifetime experience for you (seizure not El-Cap) and that you don't need medication in the long run.
Cheers
Eman
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Sep 23, 2012 - 07:44am PT
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Travis, best wishes.
I used to take Tramdol (Tradol, brand name here in Ireland) once in a while, took my last one a couple of days ago. I think I will give it a miss from now on after your story. Cheers
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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The thread where PTPP gets thanked for helping SAVE SOMEONE'S LIFE only gets a few responses.
He drops a bag and everyone wants to jump him on multiple threads.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Tramadol, if memory serves, is a CV mixed opioid agonist/antagonist. This means that if you are on chronic pain management with any CII or CIII pure opioid agonist, you will be thrown into instant withdrawal syndrome. This may or may not prove fatal, but you will most certainly feel your death.
Chronic Pain Management has over the last two decades or so become a very specialized, and effective, arena of medical practice. A thorough web search will turn up quite a bit of information...in fact, ultimately, more than you might care to know.
One good resource may be found at: med.umich.edu/pain/apainmgt. “Approximate Opioid Equianalgesic Doses (adult)". If you are in serious and intractable pain, these days it takes a bit more than a good bedside manner with your local general practitioner – to be your own advocate means you'd better do your homework.
Lest someone Rx's you Tramadol – or worse. Seem to remember a Vioxx recall; I think Celexa is also undergoing an FDA revisit.
That said, an obscure bit of knowledge, which I've held as recourse against WD's, comes from an old Vet Admin detox; anyone on this class of meds should make it a point to lay in a supply of: 50mgs Doxipin (an old antidepressant); 100mgs Neurontin (anti-convulsant) QID 4x. (until these meds make you feel worse then just going it cold duck) This will provide a modicum of bearable level of relief from the grand mal syndrome symptoms.
I had an interesting Wall experience in Zion with Retchnell, once upon a time. But it was by no means as harrowing as your unfortunate synapse collapse.
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2012 - 05:35pm PT
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To be very honest, I am really disappointed with Pete's apparent decision right now. But until I speak to him face to face about it, I don't have anything else to say about it.
And as far as tramadol withdrawl goes, I haven't had any. As a general rule, I normally don't have it with any drug. The Tramadol that I had got destroyed when my pack got tossed and a bunch of stuff in it burst. It's been a few weeks now and I am doing just fine. Changed to a light dose of hydrocodone a week or so ago that is more acetametaphine (sp) then anything else, and haven't been having any issues with that whether I take it or not.
I appreciate the post though, thanks for taking the time to write it up.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, vegasclimber.... glad to hear you are doing fine now...
*got the card off... watch the mail, about for wed, or so, next week, :)
god bless...
keep on 'keeping on' the ol' trail, :)
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Quote Here dose of hydrocodone a week or so ago that is more acetametaphine (sp
Yikes! - Vikes(vicodan)...acetaminophen will damage your liver dude.
8 grams is spelled out as a toxic OD on that stuff...which means if your on, say, 5/500mgs ("Boy Scouts"), all you need to ingest in a day is maybe 10 to poison yourself. Contraindicated for chronic use, too.
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
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Thanks Neebee :) I appreciate that, a lot.
Kab, I don't have a lot of options at this point. Quality of life goes downhill a lot when you can't walk in the mornings. I don't have insurance and can't afford to go to specialists and all that. As it is, the bill for this little incident is at $47,000 and still climbing.
Taking 1 or 2 of those a day is a hell of a lot less of an impact on my liver then chewing 8 or 10 Advil. And they aren't taken every day, at that. Kind of which is the lesser evil, I guess.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Vegas-
Been walking the walk for 15 years now. .10b can be pretty sporty when you can't feel what you're standing on, n'est pas?
Self employment means self insurance, too. But we go on. The Web helped me quite a bit.
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Real glad that I came upon this thread, since I've been on Tremadol for 8 years.
I'm heading to the Valley in a few days.
I've never abused this drug, and I was aware of the dangerous side effects, but in the long run, it is a quality of life issue.
I am bone on bone in my lower back with severe arthritis, and tremadol is perhaps the best option rather than all the others with Tylenol etc.
Perhaps I better watch my soloing in the future, since I want to see my grandchildren grow up.
I noticed there was mention of the "Zone" diet earlier.
I am sure that I was the 1st climber in the country following this diet, since I was introduced by the man himself-Dr. Barry Sears, long before he wrote his 1st book-Enter the Zone.
I can't recommend this nutrition plan enough.
It won't take away arthritis but it sure as hell is the nutrition plan to be on for everyone on the planet!!
I hurt like hell-all the time, but at 66, doing the Grand Teton, via the Upper Exum, car to car, sans rope, fresh from Boston in 9-10 hours, isn't bad. I wonder what I could do if I wasn't in constant pain.
The Olympic swim coach Richard Quick, who sadly to say, died of a brain tumor, a few years ago, touted the Zone diet for years, and for good reason. I had dinner with him on a few occasions, and he said that he even had his grandmother on the plan. Google Richard Quick- he was a great guy.
Guess what-it's the "ZONE" diet, that has made all the difference. I can't recommend it enough! ( I have an identical diabetic,twin brother with a 60 inch waist who will not follow any nutrition plan).
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2012 - 07:09pm PT
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Hey Steve, hope you have a great trip.
As I said, it wasn't just the medication - blood sugar imbalance, electrolyte imbalance, exhaustion, all were factors that came into play that day. Just bad luck is all.
Stay rested as you can, hydrated and all that good stuff - it's been really hot on the wall lately.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, wow... i sure love how the taco here, leads to so many folks helping each other, back, with shared advice from experiences...
good job, folks, ...
say, steveA--wow,i will sure be keeping you in my prayers, too...
yep--you GOT to see them grandkids grow up, :)
medicines--another scary stuff... but life-savers, too, as you have all three mentioned, :)
well--thanks for the hey there, here, just now, vegasclimber,...
i am off to chores now... :))
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Glad you are OK, sounds like you really dodged a bullet wizzing past you the size of a haulbag.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Gnarly. Trama-dol sounds like an appropriate name for a drug that induces trama!
I got very dehydrated once on a wall and was coughing up blood. I can only imagine what you went through... scary.
Talk to someone or do some research about the medical bill, IIRC medical bills are somewhat easy to reduce.
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