Lance Armstrong accepts lifetime ban, loss of Tour de France

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Messages 1041 - 1060 of total 1135 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
GLillegard

Social climber
Oregon
Jan 19, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
Ken M writes:

"You get the sense that you are the latest in history in wanting to be the head inquisitor, who has God speaking into his hear as to who is guilty, what punishments they deserve....all without knowing them"

"Patrick, with your very negative attitude, it seems clear why there is so much cancer in your family. All that negativity......"

As a MD it might do you well to heed your own words, and learn a little more about your patient before diagnosing his family medical history.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 19, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
If Lance just "came out of the closet" and admitted he was a Scientologist then this whole sorry affair could have ended more than two weeks ago.

tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Jan 19, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
Knowing about the circus they call the pro racing circuit or most pro sports these days, it is surprising to me when someone is surprised that the pros dope and cheat.

I mean, c'mon, is this really that surprising? Lance, beating the rest, the best, who were dopers, not once, but 7 times, without doping himself? What, was he really that head and shoulders above every other cyclist in the world?

It is like someone coming along and suddenly freeing an A5 route 7 times when you know that everyone else has been french freeing it.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 19, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
What, was he really that head and shoulders above every other cyclist in the world?

Yeah, he probably was. If no cyclists had doped, would the results have been any different?

Without the juice, LA would probably still have been an as#@&%e, and he probably still would have won 7 tours.
Guernica

climber
right there, right then
Jan 19, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
Pretty dick thing to say, Ken M.
WBraun

climber
Jan 19, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
Here's another stupid zinger by you Ken:

the Chief was wrong. He argued against due process, against the concept of "innocent until proven guilty".

Unfortunately he was proven guilty years ago Ken, by all his close associates and everyone knew it all along except you .......
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
As a MD it might do you well to heed your own words, and learn a little more about your patient before diagnosing his family medical history.

Pardon me, GI, but if Patrick wants to post his family history as proof that he is an expert on cancer....which is what he did....then he is subject to having that expertise questioned.

HE posted his family history. I'm not afraid of talking about it. If you are, go hide under your bed.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
Look,

Armstrong tried to climb the greasy pole on a bicycle. he failed and that is public record...

Playing the violins for the butthurt entourage is exceptionally funny. All the dispossessed crybabies who stayed at the party too long are entitled to nothing.

Dude with a bicycle promised you a bike shop ? Super funny ! Girl who's hubby team mate felt rear ended ? Off the back !

Do natural endorphins gained through pedaling amount to common sense when doping is the coin of the realm?

Depends on what you think resonates heroics...
GLillegard

Social climber
Oregon
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
Ken, with your very negative attitude, it seems clear why there is so much ranting in your posts. All that negativity......
MMCC

climber
New Zealand
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
Watching Armstrong utterly kick Ulrich's ass, when Jan was positively luminescent with banned chemicals, should have been all it took, years ago.

Anyway, pro cycling, it's a rotten sport, but I still love being on my bike. Think I'll ride it again tomorrow.
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 20, 2013 - 02:05am PT
Lance Armstrong. .. . . knew that he had been doping, lied about it, and then went after those who called him on that lie. Lied some more (knowing he was lying) and did everything he could to ruin those who called him on his lies.

He should be stripped of more than his medals. He should be forced to pay back any court fees or winnings for any and all litigations that he took part in whether he won or not if it was based on his lying about doping.

The whole of the sports world, both collegiate and professional, need to come to terms with doping, on whatever level.

The unfortunate reality is that it's all driven by spectators. Advertising dollars that fuel any given sport. You watch, you give, and it keeps going around. And around.. .. . and around.. . . .and around . . .
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jan 20, 2013 - 02:35am PT
Let's take for starters the mine owners that killed my grandfather (and maybe yours too).

zBrown, after my mother’s father (both of my grandfathers were judges, in Olympia, WA and Wheeling, West Virginia), Papa Casey retired from the bench he gave his legal services for free to the miners and steel workers, working against the mine owners and steel owners. I haven’t seen it, but my cousins have, a statue of Papa Casey in Pittsburgh, PA.

Ken M, the point I was trying to get across was that Armstrong hurt people for his own gain.

Here in Ireland the press has focused on Emma O’Reilly and Lance’s treatment of Paul Kimmage. No doubt because they are Irish people he went out of his way to slander.

But there are a lot of people he slandered and libeled and sued and gained.

And Ken, actually, cancer has not been a problem in our family for the most part. But sh*t happens. And none of them were smokers.

If you are a physician, your comment about me would make sure I stay away from you. It was sort of mean, wasn’t it.

GLillegard, and Guernica, thank you. I would imagine and hope that Ken is a good doc, but he was rankled by my judging of LA.

Ken M, I don't know what to say to you.

EDIT

Ken, I don't know what caused Lance's cancer, and I'd certainly hope his Lifestrong organization has helped cancer victims, but was it built on a house of cards? Did he benefit from it? Some investigative journalists say he did, but as my former editors used to say, substantiate, substantiate, substantiate, if in doubt leave it out.

There are a lot of worthy organizations out there for cancer victims.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jan 20, 2013 - 02:45am PT
Patrick
Ken M is far off on this one. Just let him go or ask him if he as an expert in his field can document the link between criticism (or negativity as he says) and cancer.

Edited:
A funny part of this - if you take Ken by his words - and think that criticism is negativity and negativity is causing cancer - then Ken is now exposing himself to a higher risk of getting cancer because he is criticising you.

On snow: It's not snowing in Oslo. The inner part of the city is nearly free of snow, but out i the woods around Oslo there is snow and people are skiing.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jan 20, 2013 - 02:55am PT
Thanks Marlow, but I would hope and imagine that Ken M is not that mean of person, I probably just wrote some things he didn't agree with.

I could be wrong, but it seems like he is a supporter of Armstrong.

Cancer is horrible.

So is dementia.

I know a lot about both in recent years. But I am not a medical professional. Three years of pre-med and a certified EMT 1, and a medical journalist does not make me know all.

But I try to learn.

Lance Armstrong hurt people. Period. He may have also helped people. When does the bad negate the good?


EDIT

Hey Marlow, is it snowing in Oslo? Or is that a trick question?

It's trying to snow in Dublin, inland and higher up, but here in Dalkey, so close to the sea, the sea moderates the weather more.

Aer Lingus has cancelled flights to London and Paris due to the snow hitting Europe, not that Jennie and I have the money to travel to London or Paris. Nice would be nice (Jen lived there for three years in the mid-1970s, and I worked in Provençe in 1982).

What's it like in California, fellow Taco Standers? Tuolumne Meadows and 120 open? Or is that a trick question?

And for the other non-California Supertopians, how's the weather?

I'd imagine too cold for bicycle racing.

My first race, in a Bay Area High School circuit, was a hill climb in El Cerrito (1971), I just wanted the $10 prize to buy a lid. Came in fourth place, inches behind the other three... they all had the proper shorts, shoes etc, all I had was tennies, cut-offs and a Pogliaghi. I still have the yellow ribbon in a box somewhere.

So yes, I raced for drugs.

But I preferred climbing.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jan 20, 2013 - 06:42am PT
The truth can be revealed. I am the father of Oprah's love-child.


I feel so dirty. Eww.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jan 20, 2013 - 06:48am PT
Twisted Crank, Oprah/Opera (who I actually like as an entertainer, but she is a weak journalist). She is worth to close to $3bn, if you are the product of being a father of a love-child of hers, ask her for a loan. ;-)

I am sure she can afford it.

Just be careful of what interest rate she charges you.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jan 20, 2013 - 07:02am PT
Ken M, I don't know your background, but if you are a MD, I would hope you are a good one.

Lance Armstrong aside (and he sure played Oprah for what it is worth, clever guy, but when you set out to hurt and slander people, karma will catch up with you).

I have been a full-time carer for over two years for my partner (Korsakoff's Syndrome), not getting paid much (Carer's Allowance something I could make in a couple of hours as a hack).

I have learned a lot, and I have a real good team behind me (doctors, nurses, carers) but sometimes it seems that when Jennie is lucid, that she knows more than I do. She lost her husband to cancer in 1990, and her partner to cancer in 2004.

If you want to make light of the subject, go on Steve Wilkos's show or Jeremy Kyle's show.

Cancer sucks.

You should know that, and yet, and perhaps I am wrong, you want to use it as a barb against me because it seems we disagree about Armstrong.

I am trying me best to get through life and take care of a beautiful and lovely woman. And you want to use me as a dart board.

Lance Armstrong has hurt people, and yet he is going to come out smelling like roses, just watch his thorns.

IMO, LA should be prosecuted, sued and stuck in prison. He hurt people deliberately. Wrongfully. Just imagine how those people feel. And see him smirking at Oprah, knowing he is a multi-millionaire and has the funds to fight off any rear-guard action.

Life is not fair, and he just proves it.


EDIT

As a journalist for seven years in England and now living in Ireland for 17 tears plus, most doctors I have come across are superb, just two have been smug, a GP and the other, an orthopedic surgeon censured by the Medical Board.

Just because you have a medical degree, don't be smug with me.

Make light about cancer in my family, if you will, but I am glad I am not one of your patients.

Lance Armstrong, whatever you may think, has ruined people's reputations and finances. If you think so highly of him, offer to be his doctor, I think it would suit.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jan 20, 2013 - 07:21am PT
Some folks have a hard time admitting they have been completely duped.
That they have been very, very wrong and that they lost their ability to think critically because of some pathetic fan-boy garbage. Many of you actually joined this psychopath in his attacking of victims who tried to expose his lies,cheating,purgery, assaults,theft,etc.... "a witch hunt" remember?
What does it say about themselves if they saw a hero in one of the most obvious psychopaths of our time?

Still......many of you just don't get it..


The saddest story I've ever heard about sport was told to me in November 2010 by a man who cheated to win the Tour de France. We were sitting not in the plush surrounds of a five-star hotel in Texas, but in a sparsely furnished cabin in the San Jacinto mountains. Floyd Landis's old racing bike was standing just inside the doorway; his underwear was drying on a clotheshorse; the cupboards were bare, the carpet was worn; it had been a while since President Bush had called.

Darkness was falling on the mountain. Five hours had passed since he had begun telling his story and had covered most of the bases: his boyhood as a Mennonite, his doping apprenticeship with Lance Armstrong, his Tour de France win in July 2006 and the 12 months he spent lying after he tested positive. We have now reached the moment he knew the lying would have to stop.

It's 20 September 2007. He has just set off on a training ride from his home in San Diego when he receives a call from his lawyer, Maurice Suh. After a costly and protracted legal battle with the United States Anti-Doping Agency, the ruling on his positive test is about to be announced. "We should know in the next hour," the lawyer says.

Landis returns home immediately and waits in the garage. His wife, Amber, is sitting inside but he needs to be alone. The case has placed a desperate strain on their marriage. Every penny of their savings is riding on this call. Win, and the good times roll again. Lose, and they face ruin. Twenty minutes pass before the lawyer delivers the verdict. "We lost," he says.

Amber cries when she hears the news but Floyd burns with anger. He races upstairs to the living room and takes the most coveted prize in cycling – a beautiful porcelain bowl presented to the winner of Tour de France – from a cabinet. Amber knows what he's thinking and follows him up the stairs but he has already raised it over his head when she comes through the door.

"No Floyd!" she pleads. "It's all we have."

He smashes it to the floor.

"I had walked by that thing a hundred times [that year], and every single time I wanted to smash it," Landis explained. "It had made me into something that I wasn't. It represented a turning point in my life where I had to lie."

Lance Armstrong reached that turning point in 1999 but he's not living in a shed in the San Jacinto mountains, and he hasn't broken any porcelain yet. For the first 39 seconds of his interview with Oprah Winfrey, he was utterly convincing …

Winfrey: "Did you ever take banned substances to enhance your cycling performance?"

Armstrong: "Yes"

Winfrey: "Was one of those banned substances EPO?"

Armstrong: "Yes"

Winfrey: "Did you ever blood-dope or use blood transfusions to enhance your cycling performance?"

Armstrong: "Yes."

Winfrey: "Did you ever use other banned substances, such as testosterone, cortisone or human growth hormone?"

Armstrong: "Yes."

Winfrey: "In all seven of your Tour de France victories, did you ever take banned blood substances or blood dope?"

Armstrong: "Yes."

And then it was back to telling jokes.

"I looked up the definition of cheat and the definition of cheat is to gain an advantage on a rival or foe that they don't have. I didn't view it that way. I viewed it as a level playing field."

"I never tested positive."

"Michele Ferrari is a good man."

"I don't like the UCI."

"I care a lot about Christian [Vande Velde]."

"I'm not going to lie to you or the public."

"I think I deserve it [to compete again]."

"When I was diagnosed [with cancer in 1996] I was a better human being after that."

Or my favourite, hilarious: "The last time I crossed that line [doping] was 2005."

Armstrong has always shown a talent for pulling rabbits out of hats, but this was magic. He did not dope during his comeback in 2009 and 2010. Why not? Why would a guy who had doped with impunity, who didn't even regard it as cheating, suddenly decide he was going to do it clean? Wait, he explains it…

Because Kristin, his ex-wife, "believes in honesty and integrity and the truth" and asked him "never to cross that line again." And "I never would have betrayed that with her"?

Is this the same guy who dumped his wife for Sheryl Crow? Is this the same Kristin who, according to witness statements given to Usada, wrapped tablets in tin foil for Armstrong at the World Championships in Valkenberg? Who told a team-mate, Jonathan Vaughters, they kept EPO in the fridge? Who watched her husband vilify Betsy Andreu and did nothing?

But the best act came last.

"It's an epic story," Winfrey said. "What's the moral to the story?"

But moral (adj: 1 concerned with the principles of right and wrong behaviour) is not a word he has ever looked up. "I don't have a great answer there," he replied, and started faffing.

"You know what I hope the moral to this story is," Winfrey said. "I hope the moral to this story is what Kristin told you in 2009: 'The truth will set you free'."

"Yeah," he replied. "She continues to tell me that."

Cue piano music and the credits.

Here's my bottom line.

In the autumn of 1993, Greg LeMond and his wife, Kathy, were sitting at home in the suburbs of Minneapolis, when they received a visit from Linda Mooneyham, the three-times Tour de France winner has recalled. Her 21-year-old son, Lance Armstrong, had just become the world champion and she had travelled from her home in Texas for advice.

"What does he do now?" she asked. "What does he do with his money?"

"Well, let him find an agent – a good one with an attorney," LeMond replied. "And one word of advice – just be his mom."

They sat on the porch for a while and then moved inside to the kitchen. Linda had something else on her mind: "How do I make him less of an as#@&%e. He doesn't care about anyone."

"Well," LeMond replied. "I can't help you there."
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jan 20, 2013 - 07:52am PT
The arrogance of some doctors/physicians can be astounding. Thankfully, I have run across only a few. For the most part, docs I have had to deal with in Kaiser/Tuolumne General and other places in California, in England, France, Ireland, Spain, have been good docs.

I wonder what sort of doctors Lance Armstrong was dealing with?

Most medical professionals subscribe to the Hippocratic Oath, unfortunately there are some that believe in the hypocritical oath.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 20, 2013 - 08:47am PT
Patrick Sawyer...Everybody knows it never snows when fog is present...! Stop the negative male energy... : ] RJ
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