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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 27, 2012 - 11:27am PT
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hey there say, amyrat... very sad for your loss, and prayers for you all...
(as to what alleyehave, mentioned) oh my,
it's sadder, that she knew she may have had a chance, in her last minutes, but lost them, too suddenly, :(
will be praying for your sister, now...
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alleyehave
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
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There were two ropes at the scene. Both of which looked identical, in diameter, length and color. One was connected mid-rope to an anchor near Serpentine(to the left of a short 20ft 5.1 gully from the base of the wall). The other rope appeared to be loosely flaked near the base of the wall. Said anchor had three bolts, a chain connecting two bolts together, and a single rap ring on the bottom bolt. All hardware looked bomber. I personally flaked and bagged both ropes and came across no hangers or damaged equipment. Whether or not she was attached to different anchor with the other rope, or doing a single-bolt rappel I simply don't know.
One of the other climbers with Karen said that she was able to grab a part of the rope and prevent her from falling farther, which would also lead one to believe that she had been tied in to one end, possibly, still very unclear.
I think it would be worthwhile to inspect the entire face from the ground to 50ft up and look for any obvious signs of catastrophic anchor failure. If I can get the time I will go up next week and do it myself. If anyone else can do it earlier, let me know and I can give you more specifics as to the exact location of where it occured.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
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just conjecture, but if one was making several rappels to set up a TR on a lower route, they would most likely still be connected via a higher anchor, while setting up a separate rope on the lower anchors.
If the upper anchor pulled, the lower anchor would be intact. Check higher up rap stations for clues.
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alleyehave
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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That's a good point Karodrinker. I will be inspecting top down. Which is no easy task considering the amount of bolts and rap/belay stations on Weeping Wall. I am attempting to go up this Sunday if 1-2 other people can join me, to cover more ground. Otherwise I will have to wait over a week to get up there.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
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nice to have you fellows looking into this, but i think the prime investigation ought to involve authorities and begin with adult witnesses. as pointed out elsewhere, authorities who don't understand climbing won't know what questions to ask. perhaps largo and jstan might find this appropriate for working out some of the protocols they've called for.
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all in jim
climber
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:14pm PT
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So sad. She seemed like a wonderful, sweet girl who loved to climb.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 27, 2012 - 06:31pm PT
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wow, very sad news.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 27, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
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Inspecting the anchors is likely to not show much since the climber who coiled the rope(s) found no hanger or biners or anything connected to the line. If a bolt pulled (very unlikely from a rap load, since all the quarter inchers on the Weeping Wall were replaced decades ago), it would still be hooked to the rope via a biner and a hanger. It sounds like the rope came unhooked from the anchor, since the rap rope apparently ended up on the deck.
As is, there is not nearly enough data to know much of anything.
JL
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alleyehave
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 07:29pm PT
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Largo, I had the same suspicions which is why I inspected the ropes and the only anchor that was positively used last, whether she made it to that anchor or not is one of many mysteries. As most of us know, Weeping Wall is well travelled and has bomber hardware, I can't imagine one bolt failing under a rap load, let alone a two bolt anchor. I can say with %100 certainty that both ropes were completely clear of hardware.
Donald, the topo in the standard Vogel/Gaines guide appears more accurate(surprisingly). At the bottom of Route #95 (your topo, Ten Karat Gold) there is a 3 bolt rap station. Almost straight down from that on the next ledge(30ft?), there is a tree. One rope was found near this tree, the other rope was also found around this tree with the middle found on the top ledge. From what I remember, the rope was not attached in any way, shape or form to that anchor at the base of Route #95. This, and the vague details given to me, make me believe that she fell much farther to the left, and slightly higher, putting her inline with the first belay station of Serpentine. Karen was also on a ledge 10 or so feet off the ground below a direct line up to Serpentine's #1 belay station.
I think that a closer look at Serpentines belay station, and all bolts/hangers below and around it, could help rule out a possible anchor failure. In conjunction with the fact that I found no hardware, and we helped scour the base of the wall after everyone had left cleaning up misc. trash, and noticed no hardware either. Part of the one of the ropes was near Karen, but due to the fact that both were identical, I cannot say with confidence whether it was the rope going to the anchor at the top bottom of #95, or the other rope. I also wonder if both ropes being identical might have played a role, one way or another.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
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The climber might also have come undone from the rope - even happened to Tom Patey.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 27, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
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The problem with something like this is that the woman was probably seriously injured and no one would bother noticing much since the priority it to try and save her. Trying to reverse engineer this with just a few ropes laying at the base - good luck.
From the evidence so far - she either came unhooked from the rope or the rope came unclipped from the anchor. Without some knowledge or info about what she had left on her harness right after the fall, who can say. The first people to her surly remember if they had to unhook her from gear (off her harness) or if she was already gear-free. That would be a start.
Either way, it's a sad thing to have happened to all involved.
JL
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Grampa
Trad climber
OC in So Cal
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Jul 28, 2012 - 12:09am PT
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A friend in college nearly died rapping in England. He clipped into one side of the rope loop and fell as the rope pulled through the anchor. He survived with the entire rope pulled to the ground. Left his partner up at the rap anchors who needed rescue, because he had no rope.
Possibly this type scenario occurred if she landed with the entire rope.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Jul 28, 2012 - 01:59am PT
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so sorry this happened. totally tragic. and having just taught rappelling to people today, it really strikes home. strangely, it is not the first time that i have heard of a person teaching rapelling, and having a mishap. in this case, her rappel rope was around a rounded horn, and started slipping when she weighted it, causing her to stumble, and then she was off the rock...and fell about 80 feet, and was barely injured. a total miracle.
my condolences to a family who just lost someone special. ss
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 28, 2012 - 02:06am PT
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I had a short discussion with the President of RMRU tonight...there are plans to conduct a fuller investigation into this incident, starting with an interview with one of the other leaders that were present.
Apparently, this was a Girl Scouts of Orange County outing of some sort. One would think that there was at least one other leader who could shed some light on the details of what happened.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 28, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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My guess is she was using a device that required she put BOTH ropes through, and she only got one in.
That's what happened to Mike Sofranko (RIP), who used to post on rec.climbing.
Condolences to this young woman's family and friends. So sad...
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Jul 28, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
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There were two ropes at the scene. Both of which looked identical, in diameter, length and color My guess is she was using a device that required she put BOTH ropes through, and she only got one in.
So (theory) she mistook one of the lengths of rope in the device as being the other (2nd) rope?
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jul 28, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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A climber died. That's all we know for certain.
At this point, the rest is pure conjecture.
If we need to know whether or not bolt/anchor failure was involved, the route is there ready to be inspected.
If she fell because she didn't tie in properly, was distracted for an instant, etc.. there is little value in expounding these theories.
imho
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jul 28, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
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Pud.... The only good thing that can come from tragedies like this is a better understanding of our "Climbing System"
When somebody dies on the track don't you want to know how it happened?
That way we can get some insight and hopefully stop another event from happening?
I agree that people who toss theories around are not helping.
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ThomasKeefer
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jul 28, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
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The idea that it might have been only threading one strand really hits home for me. I was rapping off the bolts near Heart and Sole and Joshua Tree and did that - Luckily it was low angle and I caught it before I fully weighted it (brake strands did not feel right). It still sticks in my head and I get fixated on it from time to time.. what if..
It was also one of the few times that I was not using the prussik back-up. hopefully that was the last time I felt the need to skip it.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jul 28, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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Point taken guyman.
Talking about tragedy is healing.
I just think the reflection of endless possibilities are just that, and are not helpful to anyone.
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