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OldSlacker
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 25, 2012 - 10:16am PT
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Our local rescue team and HeliTac tried to save a 27 yr old climber after a 30-40ft fall yesterday. She passed on route to the hospital. The only local details emerging so far is that she was giving a climbing demo when she fell. Anyone know details of how the fall actually happened?
RIP to the climber, best wishes to her family and friends.
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OR
Trad climber
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Jul 25, 2012 - 10:19am PT
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Baahhhhhh! Hating this stuff. RIP
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Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
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Jul 25, 2012 - 10:19am PT
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Oh, no!
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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Jul 25, 2012 - 10:40am PT
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Sad...sympathy to friends and family.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jul 25, 2012 - 10:47am PT
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yikes, a lot of these lately. It's like this is a dangerous game or something huh? condolences to you and the victims family.
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msiddens
Trad climber
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Jul 25, 2012 - 11:29am PT
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so sorry, that suuuuucks
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 25, 2012 - 11:43am PT
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hey there say.... very sad to hear this... :(
prayers and condolences to her family....
and to those that she was demo'ing to, as well,
some may have been new climbers? and double-shocked...
:(
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 25, 2012 - 11:44am PT
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IDYLLWILD: Woman dies after rock-climbing fall
Published: 24 July 2012 10:11 PM
A Chino woman died Tuesday, July 24, about 2½ hours after she fell while conducting a rock-climbing demonstration at Mount San Jacinto State Park in Idyllwild.
Karen Gose, 27, died of her injuries in an air ambulance while being flown to Desert Regional Medical Center in Palm Springs, said the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department in a news release.
Gose, a volunteer hiking guide, was demonstrating rock-climbing and rappelling techniques about 12:45 p.m. when she fell 30 to 40 feet in the park’s Suicide Rock Trail and Climbing Area, the Sheriff’s Department said.
http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/hemet/hemet-headlines-index/20120725-idyllwild-woman-dies-after-rock-climbing-fall.ece
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OldSlacker
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2012 - 11:46am PT
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that's the same info I saw, gives no details about the cause of the fall.
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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Jul 25, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
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Ya looks like north side or buttress of cracks ?
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 25, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
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Damn rappelling! you can not be too careful. Worth repeating, do a mental checklist before you commit to that rappel.
Very sad, condolences to her friends and family.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 25, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
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A little googling brought up this blog belonging to a Karen Gose:
Location: Chino, California, United States
Introduction: Im in my second yr at Mt.Sac, hoping to get out of here before the yr is over. I live at home and work for the Boys and Girls Club of Garden Grove. I also work for the girlscout council of orange county. I love to play sports and be outside. If i could do anything all the time i would spend all my time rock climbing.
Interests: Rock Climbing, movies, hanging out, offroading, sleeping
http://superscooter03.blogspot.com/
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 25, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
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Very sorry to read this. My deepest sympathy to her family, friends and all who knew her.
John
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jul 25, 2012 - 01:20pm PT
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So sad. RIP little lady.
The article is actually asking witnesses to contact them and nowhere does it say the cause of the fall. Could be something as simple as a slip and fall off the top while setting up or a distracted rappel. Hard to say.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 25, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
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Karen Gose, 27, fell while descending a rock face during a climbing and rappelling demonstration
First line of the article from the Patch
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Fumbling towards stone
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Jul 25, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
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Very sorry to hear this as well. She definitely sounded like a giver and will be missed.
Tough week with another climber death in the Tetons (also 27 years old).
Eric
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Jul 25, 2012 - 02:54pm PT
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my condolences to her friends, and family
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jstan
climber
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Jul 25, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
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A suggestion.
It may be a good rule that demonstrating rappelling, by its nature a non-redundant and therefore exposed activity, needs to be a two person task. A person setting up their rappel should not have the distraction of, at the same time, carrying out a conversation with as many as a dozen people.
Another very exposed situation that I witnessed. A person was conducting a rappelling class for a group of around twenty UCSB students/associates. The rig consisted of a single sling that seemed intended to provide force equalization on two six inch diameter trees. There was no backup on that sling. And there was no provision for belay to those on rappel. I think, with good reason, universities are generally withdrawing their support for this sort of instruction. The students were getting entirely the wrong message as to what is involved in a rappel.
Too often rappels have been treated as entertainment. They can be entertainment, I suppose, if one really enjoys Russian Roulette.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jul 25, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
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My sincere condolences to family and friends.
We need people like Karen now more than ever.
very sorry to read this.
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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Jul 25, 2012 - 03:27pm PT
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^^^I agree jstan.. unless youre only a few feet off the deck you should not have the distraction of trying to comunicate to a group below, not saying that is what happened here but seems like a possible senario..
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 25, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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totally agree with jstan
I do not think that rappelling should ever be taught or demonstrated to beginners. It will only embolden them to go out and try it without learning safety and good habits. I have taken friends out to introduce them to climbing, busy enough keeping it safe without trying to deal with a rappel
Maybe some of the professional guides could chime in on this one.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jul 25, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
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maybe we could show some collective class and analyze this later or on another thread.
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Onewhowalksonrocks
Mountain climber
portland, Maine
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Jul 25, 2012 - 03:54pm PT
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Well I don't know what happen at Suicide. I hope she'll RIP.
As far as how things should be done can't wait to read more from the meat of this taco.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Jul 25, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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Condolences to Karen's family and friends.
From her blog:
=
About me
Gender Female
Industry Non-Profit
Occupation Working with kids
Location Chino, California, United States
Introduction Im in my second yr at Mt.Sac, hoping to get out of here before the yr is over. I live at home and work for the Boys and Girls Club of Garden Grove. I also work for the girlscout council of orange county. I love to play sports and be outside. If i could do anything all the time i would spend all my time rock climbing.
Interests Rock Climbing, movies, hanging out, offroading, sleeping
Favorite Movies Butterfly effect, as of right now. I love suspense and movies that are hard to figure out unless you watch the whole thing this one is definatly a good one.
Favorite Music Alternative, rock, but usually ill listen to almost anything once.
Favorite Books I dont really read much. I dont have to much time to do that. However when i do have time i like to read about climbing.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 25, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
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A couple of caveats:
*There is no clear, reliable information about the nature of the incident: slip/fall, climbing, rap failure.
*The blog quote from above is not confirmed to be from the same person- it seems highly likely, but there is no confirmation of this.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 25, 2012 - 05:01pm PT
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Very sorry. That blog entry certainly humanizes things. That was someone's daughter who died there. So young.
I'll have more to say once we know what happened. Condolenses to all involved.
JL
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jwallace
Mountain climber
san jacinto, ca
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Jul 25, 2012 - 08:19pm PT
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I heard it was a failed anchor!! Bad news!!
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jul 25, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
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So sad, my condolences to her family and friends.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Jul 25, 2012 - 08:40pm PT
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Very sad news; a young woman's life cut far too short.
My deepest condolences to family and friends.
_
In the absence of any real information, perhaps it is best to leave the Monday morning quarterbacking to another time and thread.
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
WA, & NC & Idaho
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Jul 25, 2012 - 09:37pm PT
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My sincere condolences to her family and friends,
Sounds like a very special young woman.
so sorry.
Are there a rash of deaths recently, or does the internet make it just seem that way?
Climbing is DANGEROUS, carefull y'all!
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alleyehave
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 25, 2012 - 10:06pm PT
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We were first at scene and the story that was given to us directly was very vague, scattered and didn't make a whole lot of sense. At one point it was said that a bolt had "popped". This occurred at the base of Serpentine on Weeping Wall. Apparently they had hiked to the top, and made a series of raps down to setup TR. At one point or another, she had fallen approximately 40ft or so and struck a ledge approximately 9ft above the base of the wall.
We personally inspected said anchor and found no damage to any hardware, and nothing that would indicate that this occurred due to equipment failure. Unfortunately, we don't have any additional info.
Our condolences to the family, friends, and all involved.
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OldSlacker
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2012 - 09:38am PT
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Thanks Alleyehave. Just a local here trying to get the story.
Best wishes to her family and friends.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Jul 26, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
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http://idyllwildtowncrier.com/2012/07/25/female-climber-dies-of-injuries-after-suicide-rock-fall/
Female climber dies of injuries after Suicide Rock fall
Marshall Smith |
Karen Gose, 27 of Chino, died of injuries sustained while descending a sheer face of Suicide Rock in Idyllwild’s San Jacinto wilderness. Gose, reportedly a counselor with a church camp, fell 30 feet during a rappelling demonstration, onto a rock ledge.
CAL FIRE/Riverside County Fire Department responded, as did Idyllwild Fire Protection District, although IFPD did not participate in the rescue.
The reported time of injury was 12:41. CAL FIRE Copter 301 lowered a medic to the rock ledge. He attended to the woman and prepared her for a helicopter hoist. She complained of difficulty breathing and was thought to have had a broken hip and possible rib damage. At approximately 2:50 p.m. she was hoisted into the helicopter. The copter circled and returned for a hoist of the medic.
At approximately 3:04 p.m. attending personnel transferred Gose into a Mercy Air helicopter for transport to Desert Regional Medical Center in Palm Springs. She died en route, with time of death listed as 3:21 p.m.
Injured hiker being lifted into copter. Photo by Marshall Smith
CAL FIRE medic being lifted into copter. Copter began leaving site while medic still dangling because of urgent condition of Gose. Photo by Marshall Smith
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Kenygl
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Jul 26, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
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Man I hate this. I've been to more rescues and ground falls than I want to remember. Never pretty, always avoidable, always sobering.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Jul 26, 2012 - 08:20pm PT
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Only the good die young.
RIP
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AmyRat
Gym climber
Atlanta
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Jul 27, 2012 - 07:57am PT
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I am not a climber but my sister was friends with this climber. The story that I have heard is that the Park District bolt came out of the rock face. This needs to be confirmed but I share it so that you can take care. Karen was demoing to a group of young girls who watched the fall but were only told of her death after they were assembled back with their parents.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 08:11am PT
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always avoidable
Yes. In the sense of some manner of error made, whatever that might have been. That is one reason I am so deeply saddened by this tragic death of a fine young person.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 10:55am PT
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the second-hand reports on this thread beg for this accident to get a very thorough investigation. we have to know whether karen was rappeling off a single bolt--and did that bolt pull?
amy should know that there is no such thing as a "park district bolt". climbers are allowed to place bolts and use them at their own risk. a bolt may be weak, weathered, or obsolete, and the rock around it may have deteriorated since it was placed, and it may have been placed incompetently in the first place--a little hard to believe at weeping wall, but who knows? suicide rock is in a national forest, not a park, but even in parks which allow climbing, there are many posted warnings about the assumption of these risks.
i can only express sadness at the loss of a young person, but i also have to express alarm at what may have been involved, and at a lack of public awareness which will only lead to future accidents.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jul 27, 2012 - 10:59am PT
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I too am saddened by Karen's story. Sincerest condolences to her friends and family.
Respectfully... An accident analysis is sure to come and is important to help prevent these types of tragedies in the future - especially since most rappel fatalities (short of catastrophic anchor failure) are preventable.
The facts do seem muddled. Any rappelling on Serpentine would be done off the 2-bolt anchors. There are a couple of statements about hardware pulling, but Alleyhave says he inspected the anchor and it is still intact . Amy states that "the Park District bolt came out of the rock face". (there are no "Park Dist" bolts so I assume she just means the fixed hardware). Were the actual lead-bolts inspected to see if they are all there? Is it possible she was rappelling off a single lead-bolt rather than the (2-bolt) anchor and it pulled?
Edit: Simul-posted the same theory as Tony^^
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 27, 2012 - 11:27am PT
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hey there say, amyrat... very sad for your loss, and prayers for you all...
(as to what alleyehave, mentioned) oh my,
it's sadder, that she knew she may have had a chance, in her last minutes, but lost them, too suddenly, :(
will be praying for your sister, now...
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alleyehave
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
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There were two ropes at the scene. Both of which looked identical, in diameter, length and color. One was connected mid-rope to an anchor near Serpentine(to the left of a short 20ft 5.1 gully from the base of the wall). The other rope appeared to be loosely flaked near the base of the wall. Said anchor had three bolts, a chain connecting two bolts together, and a single rap ring on the bottom bolt. All hardware looked bomber. I personally flaked and bagged both ropes and came across no hangers or damaged equipment. Whether or not she was attached to different anchor with the other rope, or doing a single-bolt rappel I simply don't know.
One of the other climbers with Karen said that she was able to grab a part of the rope and prevent her from falling farther, which would also lead one to believe that she had been tied in to one end, possibly, still very unclear.
I think it would be worthwhile to inspect the entire face from the ground to 50ft up and look for any obvious signs of catastrophic anchor failure. If I can get the time I will go up next week and do it myself. If anyone else can do it earlier, let me know and I can give you more specifics as to the exact location of where it occured.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
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just conjecture, but if one was making several rappels to set up a TR on a lower route, they would most likely still be connected via a higher anchor, while setting up a separate rope on the lower anchors.
If the upper anchor pulled, the lower anchor would be intact. Check higher up rap stations for clues.
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alleyehave
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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That's a good point Karodrinker. I will be inspecting top down. Which is no easy task considering the amount of bolts and rap/belay stations on Weeping Wall. I am attempting to go up this Sunday if 1-2 other people can join me, to cover more ground. Otherwise I will have to wait over a week to get up there.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
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nice to have you fellows looking into this, but i think the prime investigation ought to involve authorities and begin with adult witnesses. as pointed out elsewhere, authorities who don't understand climbing won't know what questions to ask. perhaps largo and jstan might find this appropriate for working out some of the protocols they've called for.
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all in jim
climber
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:14pm PT
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So sad. She seemed like a wonderful, sweet girl who loved to climb.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 27, 2012 - 06:31pm PT
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wow, very sad news.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 27, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
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Inspecting the anchors is likely to not show much since the climber who coiled the rope(s) found no hanger or biners or anything connected to the line. If a bolt pulled (very unlikely from a rap load, since all the quarter inchers on the Weeping Wall were replaced decades ago), it would still be hooked to the rope via a biner and a hanger. It sounds like the rope came unhooked from the anchor, since the rap rope apparently ended up on the deck.
As is, there is not nearly enough data to know much of anything.
JL
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alleyehave
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 07:29pm PT
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Largo, I had the same suspicions which is why I inspected the ropes and the only anchor that was positively used last, whether she made it to that anchor or not is one of many mysteries. As most of us know, Weeping Wall is well travelled and has bomber hardware, I can't imagine one bolt failing under a rap load, let alone a two bolt anchor. I can say with %100 certainty that both ropes were completely clear of hardware.
Donald, the topo in the standard Vogel/Gaines guide appears more accurate(surprisingly). At the bottom of Route #95 (your topo, Ten Karat Gold) there is a 3 bolt rap station. Almost straight down from that on the next ledge(30ft?), there is a tree. One rope was found near this tree, the other rope was also found around this tree with the middle found on the top ledge. From what I remember, the rope was not attached in any way, shape or form to that anchor at the base of Route #95. This, and the vague details given to me, make me believe that she fell much farther to the left, and slightly higher, putting her inline with the first belay station of Serpentine. Karen was also on a ledge 10 or so feet off the ground below a direct line up to Serpentine's #1 belay station.
I think that a closer look at Serpentines belay station, and all bolts/hangers below and around it, could help rule out a possible anchor failure. In conjunction with the fact that I found no hardware, and we helped scour the base of the wall after everyone had left cleaning up misc. trash, and noticed no hardware either. Part of the one of the ropes was near Karen, but due to the fact that both were identical, I cannot say with confidence whether it was the rope going to the anchor at the top bottom of #95, or the other rope. I also wonder if both ropes being identical might have played a role, one way or another.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 27, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
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The climber might also have come undone from the rope - even happened to Tom Patey.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 27, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
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The problem with something like this is that the woman was probably seriously injured and no one would bother noticing much since the priority it to try and save her. Trying to reverse engineer this with just a few ropes laying at the base - good luck.
From the evidence so far - she either came unhooked from the rope or the rope came unclipped from the anchor. Without some knowledge or info about what she had left on her harness right after the fall, who can say. The first people to her surly remember if they had to unhook her from gear (off her harness) or if she was already gear-free. That would be a start.
Either way, it's a sad thing to have happened to all involved.
JL
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Grampa
Trad climber
OC in So Cal
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Jul 28, 2012 - 12:09am PT
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A friend in college nearly died rapping in England. He clipped into one side of the rope loop and fell as the rope pulled through the anchor. He survived with the entire rope pulled to the ground. Left his partner up at the rap anchors who needed rescue, because he had no rope.
Possibly this type scenario occurred if she landed with the entire rope.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Jul 28, 2012 - 01:59am PT
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so sorry this happened. totally tragic. and having just taught rappelling to people today, it really strikes home. strangely, it is not the first time that i have heard of a person teaching rapelling, and having a mishap. in this case, her rappel rope was around a rounded horn, and started slipping when she weighted it, causing her to stumble, and then she was off the rock...and fell about 80 feet, and was barely injured. a total miracle.
my condolences to a family who just lost someone special. ss
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 28, 2012 - 02:06am PT
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I had a short discussion with the President of RMRU tonight...there are plans to conduct a fuller investigation into this incident, starting with an interview with one of the other leaders that were present.
Apparently, this was a Girl Scouts of Orange County outing of some sort. One would think that there was at least one other leader who could shed some light on the details of what happened.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 28, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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My guess is she was using a device that required she put BOTH ropes through, and she only got one in.
That's what happened to Mike Sofranko (RIP), who used to post on rec.climbing.
Condolences to this young woman's family and friends. So sad...
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Jul 28, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
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There were two ropes at the scene. Both of which looked identical, in diameter, length and color My guess is she was using a device that required she put BOTH ropes through, and she only got one in.
So (theory) she mistook one of the lengths of rope in the device as being the other (2nd) rope?
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jul 28, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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A climber died. That's all we know for certain.
At this point, the rest is pure conjecture.
If we need to know whether or not bolt/anchor failure was involved, the route is there ready to be inspected.
If she fell because she didn't tie in properly, was distracted for an instant, etc.. there is little value in expounding these theories.
imho
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jul 28, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
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Pud.... The only good thing that can come from tragedies like this is a better understanding of our "Climbing System"
When somebody dies on the track don't you want to know how it happened?
That way we can get some insight and hopefully stop another event from happening?
I agree that people who toss theories around are not helping.
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ThomasKeefer
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jul 28, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
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The idea that it might have been only threading one strand really hits home for me. I was rapping off the bolts near Heart and Sole and Joshua Tree and did that - Luckily it was low angle and I caught it before I fully weighted it (brake strands did not feel right). It still sticks in my head and I get fixated on it from time to time.. what if..
It was also one of the few times that I was not using the prussik back-up. hopefully that was the last time I felt the need to skip it.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Jul 28, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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Point taken guyman.
Talking about tragedy is healing.
I just think the reflection of endless possibilities are just that, and are not helpful to anyone.
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DayWalker
Trad climber
Orange County, California
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Jul 31, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
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I remember when I was learning how to rap. My dad taught me the best and safest way he could come up with, by making me rap down a hill. We found a super low angle slab, basically something I could walk right up and down, maybe about 30 feet. Id say in those 30 feet of slab walking, you gained 10 feet of elevation to explain how steep this thing wasnt. We hooked the rap to the tree at the top, and made me basically walk backwards down the hill while rapelling myself.
If something went wrong, well dang I started to walk back up the hill. This seems like a good safe way to teach people, or it worked for me, because when I did mess up, I fell over backwards and got a scrape, not a broken anything.
RIP, its a shame that stuff like this has to happen.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 31, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
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Did anybody get up to the Weeping Wall last weekend and inspect the Serpentine anchors (or nearby)?
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jul 31, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
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I agree with many posts and sympathies expressed above. But absent a total anchor failure, many of the hypothetical possibilities point toward one basic rappelling practice not having been done: clip into the anchor and stay clipped in until the system is fully weighted. Make a last quick visual check, then unclip. Of the handful of rappelling accidents that happen every year, a goodly proportion would have been prevented by this practice, which takes only a matter of seconds, maybe a minute or two total at each station.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 31, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
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Public discussion is one of the few fixes that will slow down these senseless accidents. Every time I rap I think about the fact that what I am about to do is more likely to kill me than a long runout. the only climbing fatality involving a friend was a rappelling accident. This needs to be discussed, even if it is speculation
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Jul 31, 2012 - 04:07pm PT
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I believe the accident occured from the anchors at the base of Ten Karat Gold. That would account for the distance (approx. 35') and location. I was there on Sunday and the anchor is still there and bomber, like all anchors on the Weeping wall. The force on an anchor rapelling a slab is very low and these are 3/8" bolts. If the anchor had failed, the pieces would be attached to the rope. Since nothing was found, I would guess she had riged up the rappel directly thru the rings and made a fatal mistake.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 31, 2012 - 05:53pm PT
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My guess is she was using a device that required she put BOTH ropes through, and she only got one in.
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According to Bob Gaines, who's doing a book on rappelling, the above is a common occurrence per rapping accidents. Only one loop makes it way into the biner, so when you lean back, you just whizz off.
JL
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 31, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
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God bless ya, Karen. Rest in peace now...
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alleyehave
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 31, 2012 - 08:54pm PT
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Johannsolo, I don't think she fell while rapping from Ten Karat Gold. While thats the last place that any rope was still connected to, she actually fell closer 40ft to the left and down of the tree below Ten karat Gold, placing her in a direct line below the first pitch belay of Serpentine. I think she was rapping from there, either to the ground, or to ten karat gold when the accident occurred.
Like many people here have already noted, unless indisputable evidence points to an improbable anchor failure, most of what we can conclude is pure speculation. But, for what it's worth, from what I saw, I also think that is very likely that due to two ropes being at the base of the rock which were identical in every way, there is a strong possibility that one end of the rope was NOT on the ground. Instead, one end of the rope potentially 30-40ft above the base of the wall. When she looked down, she might have noticed the large amount of rope flaked at the base(the other rope) and figured she was down on both sides, started rappel and came off the end of one of her strands. This could very easily give the impression of a bolt "popping" to the those not knowing better, resulting in a 30+ft fall directly below the Serpentine anchors.
The bottom line is, we likely will never know exactly what happened. However; we can all take away from this, and the unfortunate numerous rap incidents that occur. Almost all rappelling incidents were truly preventable with basic safety measures: bomber anchor, double check carabiners, double check belay devices, double check that both rope ends are equal and reach the next destination with stopper knots on each end.
It is our job to not only check our own rap systems, but our partners and everyone else's, every single rap we do, no matter how many times you've done it. Whether it's the first and only rap of the day, or the 8th descending Royal Arches. You simply cannot be too safe while on rappel. Please be safe and and let's take care of each other.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 31, 2012 - 09:06pm PT
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To me it is irrelevant what rappel system she employed. Crab brake, figure
8, or the latest and greatest; they all require consistent mental check lists.
If you want to go a couple of steps further make it verbal and touch each
item you are checking like pilots do.
She obviously failed to check something.
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Jul 31, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
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My guess is she was using a device that required she put BOTH ropes through, and she only got one in.
I've almost done that!!
I only know of the 5.4 or so
downclimb south of weeping wall, however toward the north of the formation
there was a tree sling, but just further north is a walk off?
yeah, just north of Graham Crackers is a big tree that you can rap, or just downclimb the crack(5.1) below the tree
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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from what I saw, I also think that is very likely that due to two ropes being at the base of the rock which were identical in every way, there is a strong possibility that one end of the rope was NOT on the ground. Instead, one end of the rope potentially 30-40ft above the base of the wall. When she looked down, she might have noticed the large amount of rope flaked at the base(the other rope) and figured she was down on both sides, started rappel and came off the end of one of her strands. This could very easily give the impression of a bolt "popping" to the those not knowing better, resulting in a 30+ft fall directly below the Serpentine anchors.
Among rappelling accidents, this is, unfortunately, another very common one (rappelling off one short end of the rope) and sounds like this is what might have happened in this case.
A good habit is to tie stopper knots in the rope ends as your standard safety procedure (every time), unless there is a very compelling reason not to.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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BG.... respecfully disagree about the always rule.
If you ALWAYS put knots in the end of a rope, one day you will have a stuck rope cause of the knotts.
The most important saftey precaution you can take, IMHO, only.
PAY ATTENTION to everything going on. Starting at your harness buckle, your tie in, your rap rig, your anchor set up, your rope - just exactly where the ends are - any loose stuff you might knock down.
When its just you and your rap rig and air - its like driving 200mph -
FOCUS
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Grampa
climber
Recreational Climber from SoCal
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I always use a nice, big, fat figure eight in the ends of my rappel ropes. Never get stuck, but should it get stuck, just rap down and fix it.
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Sam E
Boulder climber
Malibu
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+1 for Guy's post.
Every rap is different. Factor in everything possible and then double check your systems. When in doubt, I like to say it out loud. Free hanging, double rope raps, after a long day especially. Identical ropes IMO, are a recipe for confusion.
Live more fully today for those who cannot.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Accidents will happen.
As guyman points out, all you can do is focus on the task at hand.
I work with explosives on occasion and it is still more forgiving than rigging for a rappel.
I quietly talk to myself when doing both rigging and wiring. It helps me stay in the moment.
Having conscientious partners like Sam that are there to double/triple check your rig is an intensley valuable tool as well.
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laurel arndt
Trad climber
phoenix
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I just saw this link from Super Topo.
My heart goes out to all involved.
Need to give a huge big shout out to Cal Fire, they are some cool dudes trying to make it happen. On July 7th I was the unfortunate person to take a 25 ft fall onto my bomber #2 cam at the 5.7ish last pitch of White Maidens Walkway. While I had a clean fall over the roof, the force of the fall torqued my ankle so bad that I literally tore my ankle a new as#@&%e.
Cal Fire made three attempts to get me off the ledge. Got the heli ride and ambulance down to Desert (man they've seen some action), 17 stitches in my ankle, no breaks, just ripped/torn ligaments. For you guys who helped thx, I am well, (I don't have any info on you).
BTW, someone stuffed a pair of 5.10 size 6.5 approach shoes in my backpack that finally got back to me. I have posted on MP trying to get them back to the owner. If you know who they might belong to let me know and I'll mail them back
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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I have been following this thread since the first post. It is so sad, truly heartbreaking, to think about. A benevolent young woman, who's good intentions(teaching a GS group)came to such a tragic end.
My heart and prayers go out to all her loved ones. She was a remarkable women who, obviously, had sown many good seeds in her short life.
Good examples of how to share ones life and passions unselfishly with others, particularly our youth, seem to be too few and far between...she will not be forgotten!
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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yes, sounds like a mistake which will be difficult to determine fully. lots of good advice here, and it will be interesting to see gaines's book--the subject needs comprehensive treatment. my only advice is: find a way to switch gears mentally when you start rappeling--it's a simple but deceptively dangerous activity. go into defensive mode bigtime. stick with old habits and techniques.
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Tahoe climber
climber
Davis these days
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RIP and condolences - sad situation.
So she either rapped off the end or failed to get one (or both) of the rap lines through her belay device and belay carabiner.
I bet those girl scouts don't go climbing anytime again soon.
We all make mistakes - hopefully we can slow down Rap Death with more convo.
TC
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bootysatva
Trad climber
Idylwild Ca
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I always make eye contact with both ends of the rope (or when rappelling a single strand, eye contact with the one end), and if I can not see the ends I pull them up and tie knots. Even after this confirmation of being down, or at least to a safe landing, I continue to monitor the ends as I rap closer to them. Always.
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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This reminds me of a similar fatal rappel off of West Crack back in the late 70's. It's been a while, but, an older(late 30's)experienced climber was teaching two younger men how to rap. I believe he set up a double rappel and was going to rap along side of them. I do recall that the ropes were all the same color. And he accidentally grabbed one rope from each separate setup. And, of course, when he leaned back to demonstrate braking they simply pulled through.
A good friend at the time, P Cowen, observed the accident/fall from the road. He was the first person on the scene, and the man died in his arms.
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mpeg
Ice climber
CA
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Aug 14, 2012 - 01:15am PT
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to tahoe climber. they have all been climbing since the accident. being a girl scout means alot of things.
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Tahoe climber
climber
Davis these days
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Aug 14, 2012 - 06:49pm PT
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great to hear, mpeg!
Props to them - seeing my first instructor die while doing the activity would have shaken me up a bit at that age for sure.
I'll amend my bet to "I bet they are all very careful rappelling for the rest of their lives."
TC
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Had a conversation with someone with RMRU today...they conducted an interview with the participants who were present at this incident to get a clearer understanding of what happened.
Turns out the leader of this group was demonstrating some climbing/rappelling techniques using the 'Surprise' anchors to rappel from. Along the base of the Weeping Wall is a ledge that runs from the left (towards the descent gully...'Bye Gully') towards the right, which curves upward towards the base of the left facing dihedral that forms the right side of the Weeping Wall.
The leader apparently had a fixed line along this ledge, with the participants watching from below. As one moves leftward along this ledge (towards 'Bye Gully'), the dropoff below gradually increases (though never more than about 30'). She apparently rappelled from the 'Surprise' anchors to this ledge, and as she was unclipping from the rope, she tripped over this fixed line, going over the dropoff below (~20').
She sustained a pelvis & internal injuries...there was a delayed response from CalFire (don't know why) of about 4 hours....she bled out and died during the flight to the Keenwild helipad.
Not a rappel rigging failure...not an anchor failure....simply a very tragic accident.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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App.....
Thank you
sobering fact.
sad so very sad.
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Grampa
climber
from SoCal
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Thanks for the update.
We we at Suicide this weekend and my friend sprained his ankle very bad. We limped him down the hill, but I was thinking how hard it would be to carry someone down in a litter. Imagine trying to carry someone down the Tahquitz climbers trail in a litter, it would be a semi-controlled crash.
Is there another litter option that could be used to get people down the trail faster. Maybe those litters with a large tire?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Imagine trying to carry someone down the Tahquitz climbers trail in a litter
Been there, done that.
With fewer than six people it will be the hardest you ever worked in your life. The difference between five and six is enormous. Four would be a nightmare.
You don't want to be the tallest guy and stuck on the front either. Everytime someone stumbles, guess where the load goes.
I do't think any retrobolts have been added to Suprise, but Clark did add some bolts to one of his adjacent routes that caused some controversy a few years ago.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Having worked SAR as an Operations Leader for nearly 10 years, I'd say more like a minimum of 10-12 persons is preferable...litter carries can be done with 6-8, but TGT is right...it's bloody hard work.
Litter wheels do make the work a bit easier, but they work best on Cl. 1-2 terrain with relatively few obstacles...it would have limited value on the climber's trails at S/T. (When RMRU participates in a litter evac, it's usually a carry-out with the help of other climbers &/or the local Fire Dept.)
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mpeg
Trad climber
CA
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to apogee, i don't know who you talked to but just to be clear to EVERYONE this was not a rapelling demonstration and it did not take 4 hours for them to respond. there was rapelling, in order to set up a top rope but no demostration of any type.
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