The Gun debate sandbox

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 5701 - 5720 of total 5826 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 06:06am PT
It's a simple question: Can you goofballs find one single thing wrong with this woman having a gun and using it as she did?

Nothing, but unless you can find a couple of thousand of those stories each week, they don't balance out the illegal uses facilitated by the current absurd ease of getting and carrying a gun, and absurd penalties for helping those criminals. They wouldn't balance out the illegal uses perpetrated by up to then "law abiding" citizens. They wouldn't even balance out the number of deaths and injuries caused by careless handling each year.

On a constructive note, I agree that when the government not only fails, but refuses to even try to protect its citizens from violence, that prohibiting people from owning guns for protection is "not good", for want of a less contentious term. I would like to see the ownership and use of guns for self-defense, like another divisive issue, to be safe, legal and rare. Reducing gun crime is the goal, but reducing legal demand for guns would a beneficial secondary effect.

There are no simple or quick solutions, but there are several steps that could be taken. Universal background checks, that you and 90% of the population support. Much stricter regulation of dealers and much stricter penalties for straw-purchasers and rogue dealers. Much better training before public carrying of guns and much stricter penalties for illegally carrying a gun (a misdemeanor in most states). Abolish stand your ground laws, which are a playbook for murderer and an excuse to shoot first, ask questions later. None of these infringes on anybody's right to self-defense or freedom to decide what weapon is most suitable for that purpose.

So, if this thread had caused you to go out and buy a gun, know also that it has increased my contribution to Americans for Responsible Solutions PAC, and my determination to financially support the Democratic Party candidate in the upcoming election for an open congressional seat in my swing district. My way leaves less dead people.

TE
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you libo angry ass blinded Sheep
Sep 2, 2014 - 06:59am PT
On a constructive note, I agree that when the government not only fails, but refuses to even try to protect its citizens from violence, that prohibiting people from owning guns for protection is "not good", for want of a less contentious term.

Tradeddie, aren't you same dude posting up on the Ferguson thread against excessive Police force in this country?

oh how the hypocrisy flows on this thread.


How do you propose that the GOV'T protect us all from Violence that you same whack jobs on this thread are screaming it do so, are the same idiots whining about excessive force by the LEO's throughout this nation on the Ferguson thread.

In order to yank the 2nd Amend guns out of the 100's of millions of law abiding citizens hands in this nation to comply with your dumbass hypocrisy, it will require this action to be taken.... lots of it for a long period of time.






But of course you hypocrites will approve of such excess police force in order to do so.


Oh, I forgot, you all figure we are going to turn in all our weapons afforded to us by the 2 Amend voluntarily, right?

And obviously, all the 100's of thousands of criminals that hold illegal weapons will do the same. "Ah shucks, here ya go... have my guns."



public carrying of guns and much stricter penalties for illegally carrying a gun (a misdemeanor in most states)

Wrong! Illegally carrying a loaded weapon in public is a felony in most states.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 07:37am PT
Tradeddie, aren't you same dude posting up on the Ferguson thread against excessive Police force in this country?

Not me at all. But if armed police killed fifty innocent people for every one dead criminal (as is the case with civilian-owned guns), I certainly would.

I spent ten years of my life shooting guns almost every single week, I have repeatedly said I have no problem with guns, no problem with responsible gun ownership, or responsible gun trade, however simply trusting people to be responsible is a sure way be be disappointed. Legally mandated responsibility for the ownership, carrying and sale of guns, and genuine penalties for those that are irresponsible would be a huge step forward in saving the lives of thousands of Americans each year.

Please explain to me why it's illegal to buy a gun for someone else (even if that person is not prohibited, as a recent court case determined), but perfectly legal to buy a gun, then sell it the next day to a total stranger, even posting online that the sale will require no background check?

TE
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you libo angry ass blinded Sheep
Sep 2, 2014 - 07:39am PT
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA

Sep 2, 2014 - 07:37am PT


Not me at all. But if armed police killed fifty innocent people for every one dead criminal (as is the case with civilian-owned guns), I certainly would.

"fifty"?

You have a viable source for that claim.


but perfectly legal to buy a gun, then sell it the next day to a total stranger, even posting online that the sale will require no background check?

What state/s is that process legal in?


I spent ten years of my life shooting guns almost every single week, I have repeatedly said I have no problem with guns, no problem with responsible gun ownership, or responsible gun trade, however simply trusting people to be responsible is a sure way be be disappointed. Legally mandated responsibility for the ownership, carrying and sale of guns, and genuine penalties for those that are irresponsible would be a huge step forward in saving the lives of thousands of Americans each year.

You of course are aware that most of all weapons that criminals use in this nation when committing their crimes, are illegally acquired or stolen.


Please state how you propose to remedy that major problem.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 07:51am PT
Wrong! Publicly illegally carrying a loaded weapon is a felony in most states

Without other aggravating factors, such as being prohibited from owning guns, or while committing another crime, I'll stand by my original statement. Show me otherwise and I'll retract and apologize.

California - First offense - misdemeanor.
Pennsylvania - Misdemeanor.
Nevada - A Gross Misdemeanor.
Colorado - Misdemeanor.
Chicago - Class A misdemeanor.

Where do you live?

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 07:55am PT
What state/s is that process legal in?

Every state where is is legal to privately sell a gun as long as you do not know or "reasonably believe" the buyer to be prohibited. Suspicion is not belief, and who could know the legal history of a total stranger?

TE
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Sep 2, 2014 - 07:58am PT
In NEVADA, it is perfectly legal to open carry a loaded firearm most any where you wish, unless posted otherwise, also, govt bulidings, schools and such. In some other states , no permit is required to carry concealed.


And the trend is going that way. More and more states are combining carry permit acceptance from other states as well.. Concealed classes have never been more full, and gun purchases are still at all time highs.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 07:58am PT
You have a viable source for that claim.

200 justifiable civilian homicides, vs. 10,000+ murders. But you wouldn't trust the CDC or FBI statistics anyway, so why ask?

And don't give me any crap about all the times guns are legally used to prevent a crime without being discharged, because for every one of those there are many more crimes where the gun wasn't discharged either.

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 07:59am PT
In NEVADA, it is perfectly legal to open carry a loaded firearm most any where you wish, unless posted otherwise, also, govt bulidings, schools and such. In some other states , no permit is required to carry concealed.


And the trend is going that way. More and more states are combining carry permit acceptance from other states as well.. Concealed classes have never been more full, and gun purchases are still at all time highs.

At least Nevada requires classes, that's more than many states, and one of the items on my wishlist.

TE
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:05am PT
At work, im asked countless times about concealed carrying. I advise those folks that with the guns come responsibilities. Like shooting at least once every two or three weeks. Practicing point and shoot maneuvers. Becoming EFFICIENT in handling and target acquisition. And that it isnt just getting a permit, stuffing a gun in your waist line and calling it good. And judging by the local shooting range, i think for the most , they are listening.
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you libo angry ass blinded Sheep
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:15am PT
200 justifiable civilian homicides, vs. 10,000+ murders. But you wouldn't trust the CDC or FBI statistics anyway, so why ask?

That has absolutely NOTHING to validate your original claim TRADEDDIE.

Nothing.

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA

Sep 2, 2014 - 07:37am PT


Not me at all. But if armed police killed fifty innocent people for every one dead criminal (as is the case with civilian-owned guns), I certainly would.




RON!!!

Unless you have a "permit" or are documented/certified stating you successfully completed the required course, you are doing so illegally and are committing a felony by carrying a "loaded weapon". That law is only applicable in NV for a NV state resident.

Correct.


Every state where is is legal to privately sell a gun as long as you do not know or "reasonably believe" the buyer to be prohibited.

States that is the accepted legal process with source please.

Then you can throw in the "crime rate" for those states that do legally allow that process.

(Remember that law is ONLY applicable for that state. That weapon is NOT allowed into states where that process is not legal. Thus making that weapon illegal if taken out of that state.)

Thanks.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:31am PT
I dig how Tradeddie sounds so calm, while the Chief seems to be huffing and puffing.

Carry on:-)
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry ass blinded Sheep
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:42am PT
^^^^^^ Get your shet together DD. It is puffing and huffing.

Good to see you admire Tradeddies delivery style. Regardless it's validity and truth. Most bullsheters promote themselves in that fashion.


Common in this nation.


"Oh he sounds so calm... even though he is full of shet."


;I
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 08:54am PT
That has absolutely NOTHING to validate your original claim TRADEDDIE

Facts and numbers aren't your strongpoint? 10,000 murders by civilians with guns, divided by 200 justifiable homicides by civilians with guns = 50:1. If cops behaved liked that I'd want something done about it.

Nobody has been able to point out any factual statement of mine that was BS. If they can, I'll retract and apologize. You can criticize my opinions, I can take that, but if you want to call my numbers or facts BS, you need more.

Nevada Penal Code:
NRS 202.350 

1.  Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.355 and 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, a person within this State shall not:
(d) Carry concealed upon his or her person any
(3) Pistol, revolver or other firearm, or other dangerous or deadly weapon;
2.  Except as otherwise provided in NRS 202.275 and 212.185, a person who violates any of the provisions of:
(a) Paragraph (a) or (c) or subparagraph (2) or (4) of paragraph (d) of subsection 1 is guilty:
(1) For the first offense, of a gross misdemeanor.

NOT A FELONY!!!!! Be a man, admit you are wrong.

TE
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry ass blinded Sheep
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:12am PT
Nevada Penal Code:
NRS 202.350 

1.  Except as otherwise provided in this section and NRS 202.355 and 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, a person within this State shall not:
(d) Carry concealed upon his or her person any
(3) Pistol, revolver or other firearm, or other dangerous or deadly weapon;
2.  Except as otherwise provided in NRS 202.275 and 212.185, a person who violates any of the provisions of:
(a) Paragraph (a) or (c) or subparagraph (2) or (4) of paragraph (d) of subsection 1 is guilty:
(1) For the first offense, of a gross misdemeanor.

NOT A FELONY!!!!! Be a man, admit you are wrong.

Ah, where in that PC does it state... "LOADED"?

Big difference between a "loaded" and "unloaded" weapon.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:36am PT
Selling guns to strangers: Only seventeen states have background check laws that exceed Federal law. Even among those seventeen, background checks are not required for all gun sales. I will admit an error I made in previous posts, Pennsylvania is now one of those states.

For the remaining states, (33 states, which is more than half, so a majority, i.e. most states), federal law applies, which says:

U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 44 › § 922
18 U.S. Code § 922 (d)
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person (is prohibited from possession).

So, in 33 states, if you don't know or reasonably believe a buyer to be a criminal/psychopath/underage, it's perfectly legal to sell a gun to a total stranger without any background check.

Straw purchasing is illegal, but when the seller of a gun later used in a crime can simply say "I sold it to some dude in a bar", straw purchasing is virtually un-prosecutable unless it can be proven that the seller knew the purchaser was a criminal. The low odds of a prosecution, combined with the logistical difficulties of tracing crime guns means that very little police effort is spent on this.

TE

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 09:37am PT
Ah, where in that PC does it state... "LOADED"?

Big difference between a "loaded" and "unloaded" weapon.

Show me where in Nevada code carrying a loaded gun is a felony in the absence of other circumstances.

TE
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry ass blinded Sheep
Sep 2, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
My bad. Thought that the NV state law below included handguns.

2010 Nevada Code
TITLE 45 WILDLIFE
Chapter 503 Hunting, Fishing and Trapping; Miscellaneous Protective Measures
NRS 503.165 Carrying loaded rifle or shotgun in or on vehicle on or along public way unlawful; exceptions.
NRS 503.165 Carrying loaded rifle or shotgun in or on vehicle on or along public way unlawful; exceptions.
1. It is unlawful to carry a loaded rifle or loaded shotgun in or on any vehicle which is standing on or along, or is being driven on or along, any public highway or any other way open to the public.
2. A rifle or shotgun is loaded, for the purposes of this section, when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in the firing chamber, but not when the only cartridges or shells are in the magazine.
3. The provisions of this section do not apply to paraplegics, persons with one or both legs amputated or who have suffered a paralysis of one or both legs which severely impedes walking, or peace officers and members of the Armed Forces of this State or the United States while on duty or going to or returning from duty.


BUT!


You best know what the local ORD's are for where you can open carry and how.

Example:

9.32.080 - Deadly Weapon Prohibited in Vehicle—Exceptions.
It is unlawful for any person to have in his possession in any automobile, truck, motorcycle, or any other type of vehicle any dangerous or deadly weapon, but this restriction shall not be deemed to prohibit the carrying of ordinary tools or equipment carried.


And the CCW parameter is far more restrictive than the open carry and requires a PERMIT to do so legally in the state of NV.


I am from CA and this explains why posted what I did regarding loaded and unloaded guns....






And, it is a Felony in the state of CA if you have priors, the weapon is illegal and so on....

CARRYING A CONCEALED WEAPON charge - Penal Code Section 12025 or P.C. 12025 states in part - (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following: (1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

Carrying a Concealed Weapon can be charged as a MISDEMEANOR or a FELONY. Generally, a misdemeanor conviction can carry a jail sentence of up to 1 year in county jail. Carrying a concealed weapon allegation is generally charged as a felony if the person accused has a prior felony charge on his/her record, if he/she knew or had reason to know that the weapon was stolen, or he/she is an active participant in a criminal street gang as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11(commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1). A felony charge carries a potential sentence of up the 3 years in State Prison.


Here's one for ya TE...

Compare the gun violence/death between a state that has some of the most strictest gun laws, Illinois, to that of let's say, Wyoming, Idaho or Montana which has some of the lenient gun laws.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 2, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
Your correction/apology is accepted, and it re-enforces the point I made to Madbolter a while ago when I pointed out that safety restrictions on firearms for hunting on private property are often far stricter than those for carrying in a crowded public place. That simply doesn't make sense.

You're also missing the point that while concealed carry requires a permit, carrying a concealed weapon without that permit is only a misdemeanor (in NV as I've shown, and many other states). That must really scare the gang-bangers, I doubt that it's even worth the cops or prosecutors time to bring it to court. The NRA would like you to think it's a felony, like they want you to think that selling guns to criminals is a felony. Otherwise you might support stricter gun laws, those that might actually reduce crimes, but also reduce gun sales.

TE
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry ass blinded Sheep
Sep 2, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
You're also missing the point that while concealed carry requires a permit, carrying a concealed weapon without that permit is only a misdemeanor

But is a Felony if you have prior convictions, the weapon is illegal and/or the weapon was involved in a crime. Whether or not it was brandished. That is the law here in CA.
Messages 5701 - 5720 of total 5826 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews