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Messages 5421 - 5440 of total 5937 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:50pm PT
It's honestly sad to watch how you can't follow an obvious inference.If you think this is "changing the topic," then, seriously, I am sad for you.

Your inference doesn't equate with people that go out with the purpose of murdering as many people they can on a mass shooting.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
The biggest problem you guys have got is that you simply cannot produce anything approaching a compelling case to the effect that there IS a "national crisis" that needs FEDERAL intervention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States







If this doesn't indicate a society with a serious problem, what does?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:01pm PT
The drunken need to defend the nation notwithstanding comma the right to distill and drink alcohol shall not be infringed...

Lol!

No, no 2nd amendment protection of booze. In fact the production of alcohol is heavily regulated from the Fed, states and local authorities as well. Not that it matters.

See the topic line? This thread is about guns, not about BUT MA! THEY DID IT TOO!

If you can't stay on topic perhaps start your own alcohol thread.

DMT
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
As it stands, the FACT is that you guys just don't like guns. Among the MANY "carnages" you could try to get motivated to stop, you fixate on

A problem you have is to generalize your facts. I like my guns

I am an owner of many guns and was raised with loaded guns in the house at all times.
I see no reason for asking for legislation limiting the size of a magazine to 7 rounds or the stopping of selling fully auto guns.

Edit,
Your fixation is to find an end run around any legislation therfore declaring any legislation attempts useless.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:26pm PT
What I like about the children's tactical vest is the 100% money back guarantee. If your kid gets plugged, they'll happily refund your money.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
Your inference doesn't equate with people that go out with the purpose of murdering as many people they can on a mass shooting.

No, instead we have FAR more people killing FAR more kids in simply pathetic, negligent, idiotic fashion with what is ALSO a deadly weapon. But that's okay.

Use a gun; go to prison.

Use a car; get your wrist slapped.

The point you fail to get hold of is that the laws (on any front) don't work.

You guys just get your panties in a bunch over one particular subset of killings and associated laws.

Inconsistent.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:47pm PT
Are you proposing that we should legislate accidents?
If you stay on topic we can discuss premeditated killings though.

Edit,
Use a car; get your wrist slapped

For crying out loud, where do live?
There are many laws that will land you plenty of years in prison for the negligent use of a motor vehicle.

johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:50pm PT
The point you fail to get hold of is that the laws (on any front) don't work.

Yes, we shouldn't have any laws, there are always some that won't obey them, so why bother.


scrubbing bubbles

Social climber
Uranus
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
my guess is the NRA is paying certain people to post on this thread
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
If you outlaw murder, only outlaws will murder.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:59pm PT
If the NRA is paying them they should ask for their money back.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
my guess is the NRA is paying certain people to post on this thread

nice, got some beer through the nose on that one
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
What I like about the children's tactical vest is the 100% money back guarantee. If your kid gets plugged, they'll happily refund your money.

Bullet resistant products.

Like my water resistant watch that I bought for ten bucks.


madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:15pm PT
Yes, we shouldn't have any laws, there are always some that won't obey them, so why bother.

Yes, we shouldn't have more laws when the enforcement of the present (and what should be adequate) laws has already proven to be ineffectual.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
Yes, we shouldn't have more laws when the enforcement of the present (and what should be adequate) laws has already proven to be ineffectual.

Good night folks.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 14, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
The huge difference between drugs and guns is that no country on earth has yet figured out what to do about drugs, while the USA remains the only developed country on earth that hasn't figured out what to do about guns.

With booze, we're somewhere in the middle. Who can explain the logic that I'm a felon if I buy my kid a beer on the day before his 21st birthday, yet I can legally buy him a .50cal before he can walk?

My wishlist isn't based on some blinkered political dogma, it's based on seeing what has worked in other countries, and even shown to work in some of our own states - regulation.

My definition of "worked"? A per capita homicide rate below that of countries with declared armed conflicts shouldn't be unreasonable.

TE
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Jul 14, 2014 - 10:03pm PT
I don't think internet logic is your thing TE
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
My definition of "worked"? A per capita homicide rate below that of countries with declared armed conflicts shouldn't be unreasonable.

COOL!

We're already there, despite being HUGELY more and diversely populated than the paradigm-example nations you and others like to tout. Did you bother to read the links I posted just upthread?

The UK, as just one example, "games" their reporting. If the US reported as the UK does, our homicide-by-gun rate would be exactly in line with theirs. And that's with the UK having about the strictest gun-control laws on the planet, AND with them being a tiny, island nation with about 1/5 our population.

So, yup, we're already there. The chafing can end now!

Yayyy
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 15, 2014 - 12:10am PT
"In 2010, about 2,700 teens in the United States aged 1619 were killed and almost 282,000 were treated and released from emergency departments for injuries suffered in motor-vehicle crashes" (http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/teen_drivers/teendrivers_factsheet.html);.

From the same CDC article: "In 2010, 22% of drivers aged 15 to 20 involved in fatal motor vehicle crashes were drinking."

So, in 2010, TEENS were drinking to the tune of 594 drunk-driving deaths AMONG THEMSELVES. That's not even counting the OTHER people they killed or maimed in such accidents.

Compare that to a grand total of 90 dead in school shootings throughout the ENTIRE 21st CENTURY so far.

In ONE YEAR drunk teens kill themselves and OTHER PEOPLE by the thousands! Yet you fixate on 90 dead over 14 years!?!

It's ALL tragic. But let's get some perspective, and YOU should be honest about what the real killer of young people really is.

Three million teens in this country are alcoholics (citation if you wish). And: "Despite declines in the number of young people involved in drunk driving fatalities, on average, more than 3 people under the age of 21 die each day in alcohol-impaired driving crashes. (Source: NHTSA/FARS, 2013)" (http://responsibility.org/drunk-driving/underage-drunk-driving-fatalities-under-21);

You want to talk about an epidemic of needless and utterly STUPID violence? Then talk about teenage drunk driving, which overshadows school shootings by an order of magnitude.

Of course, the media doesn't report as a "national crisis" every time some drunk kid kills himself, a carload of friends, and a few other in another vehicle. Nothing sexy or politically-loaded about such news. But THAT happens DAILY!

Oh, and is underage drinking illegal? Oh and is drinking while driving illegal? Oh and are stores required to card everybody before selling alcohol? Oh... uhhh... well....

Seems that the laws are not getting the job done. So much for LAWS making all the difference!

The decline in drunk driving among teens in the last several years is attributed entirely to educational programs.

As I KEEP saying, perhaps we should spend our resources on education rather than legislation. You know... do something that DOES WORK.

Come on now. Many federal laws have been enacted to reduce drunken driving. Tens of thousands of lives are saved each year, compared to a few decades ago. Education is just as imporrtant IMO but if anything drunken driving laws shows lives are saved through regulations.

Of course the media sensationalizes mass shootings. Just like plane crashes kill far less people than car crashes but you hear about the plane crashes.

Again I'm a gun owner it's ridiculous to say I hate guns. I hate the wrong peopl having guns but I think they are a right and fun. They just need to be regulated like cars or alcohol or anything else that has the potential for killing people.

Regulations work. Drunken driving proves it. The key is crafting the correct regulations that reduce murders with the minimum impact on law abiding gun owners. But the anti regulation crowd is so unreasonable it's tough to get anything useful accomplished.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 15, 2014 - 12:23am PT
Come on now. Many federal laws have been enacted to reduce drunken driving.

Come on now. What are the "many" federal laws to which you refer? Clinton signed a DUI law in 2000, but it applies ONLY on federal lands, such as national parks, military bases, and some off-road areas. Surely you are not touting that law as having "turned the tide" or even significantly contributed to the "turn around."

Causal chains please.

And, for the record, as I have repeatedly stated, I'm not opposed to gun regulation in general. I am opposed to the feds firing up yet another "war on..." that is doomed to expensive failure. The feds have little or no business in this "war." This is fundamentally a states' rights issue.

And, like you said, I think that Colorado has it about right. So, rather than to search and search for a reasonable slate of laws, why not on a state by state basis let them look at and model after Colorado. Here, 56/62 Sheriffs vehemently oppose the most recent gun-control laws, because they know that such laws as magazine-size-limits accomplish nothing of value. These Sheriffs also explicitly state that well-armed citizens make for a safer society. Are all these LEOs just wrong?

There's at least a decent chance that my two friends would still be alive today if California had been more "reasonable!" But that was a classic example of: "If guns are illegal, then only the criminals will have guns."

So, exactly WHAT is a "reasonable" slate of gun control laws, and do the feds HAVE to be the nexus of the whole thing?
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