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Messages 4961 - 4980 of total 5826 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jun 6, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
NOT ONE person, company, or manufacturer in the industry WANTS criminals and mentally ill to have a gun,, NOT ONE. What in idiotic statement.

You yourself acknowledge that a dealer in your own city does, is he the only exception in the entire nation?

The NRA is the de-facto public voice of the gun industry and gun owners. The NRA opposes universal background checks and tougher punishments for dealers who fail to keep appropriate records and "lose" an extraordinary quantity of guns. Unless gun owners or manufacturers speak out against this NRA policy, they will be presumed to agree with that policy, and want criminals and the mentally ill to continue have easy access to guns.

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jun 6, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
Here,s a helpful hint: get your idiot politicians to bring that kind of legislation to the table without all the other attachments like mag restrictions, ammo taxes, volume limits etc. Then maybe it will pass.

http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=968

The Toomey-Manchin bill contained NONE of those. Please point to ANY provision of that bill to which you object.

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jun 6, 2014 - 03:47pm PT
I guess that there is no other way a criminal could get a gun. Certainly they wouldn't want to risk doing something illegal in order to acquire a firearm because the cops would always catch them and punish them.

Why could criminals risk being caught trying to steal a gun when they can just buy one online or by private sale where there is zero possibility of being caught?

I will acknowledge that one possible side-effect of the inevitable passage of universal background checks is an increase in home burglaries in search of guns. The upside of that is that people might be less inclined to fly their stupid tea party flags.

TE
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jun 6, 2014 - 04:16pm PT
Why could criminals risk being caught trying to steal a gun when they can just buy one online or by private sale

Uh,... because it doesn't cost them $ and they are criminals.


(lets see if I can troll DMT on this)
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jun 6, 2014 - 04:27pm PT


DMT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 6, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
How anyone could think that there is a positive correlation between America's high gun ownership and high gun murder rate is beyond me. What fanciful thinking and totally irresponsible speculation!!!
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Jun 6, 2014 - 05:36pm PT
TE: I said maybe it would pass. As in maybe not.
Anyway, I don't have time to read it at the moment. Maybe later. But I see what you did there, challenging my beliefs in a manner that makes me look like a common "gun nut" who simply MUST disagree with every bit of new firearms regulation that comes across. You should go back and read some of my other posts if you really want to get a sense of my opinion on gun control. Or not. Whatever.

yawn
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jun 6, 2014 - 05:56pm PT
Well,, just got back from one of THE BUSIEST fridays weve had since the store opened. We sold around 40+ guns today. Sold out of 22 ammo by 9;45 am this morning. There was about 60 people lined up at the doors when we opened. Our baretta tactical 22 pistol we had on sale sold out by just afternoon. It was balls to the walls activity- day,, saw Johnny Rig there but only got a chance to say "hey" as i breezed by on the way to the back room for more guns. I was scheduled for a half day and ended up working a full shift and OT.. Karazay it twas...
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Jun 6, 2014 - 07:28pm PT
I was looking for 22mag ammo and pistol powder. Girl up front said it was a small shipment though. Meh. Maybe i should have hoarded some before the crunch. Guess its just not that big a deal. After all, i got enough rounds to fill my elk tag.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jun 6, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
Last week we had a mega shipemnt of 22, but this week it was a tiny shipment- and it sold out in minutes- and i had to tell the other half of the 70 plus people in line " sorry folks, we just sold out".. Thats my every friday job is to "monitor" the line due to near fights weve had,, now they are all well behaved as they know ill toss them out of the store if they start "mutherf*#kkering" people. I was given that task by the manager and since then all has been calm and civil in the line.. And we didnt get in a single new pound of powder this week which was strange. We had been doing pretty good.. Hopefully next week will be a re-bound..
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 6, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
Dang, Rifleman Ron, the gunNuts are getting restless. Better stock up before Hillary bans ammo sales!! Maybe pass out some free Slim Jim's to the mob.
Degaine

climber
Jun 7, 2014 - 02:14am PT
Ron Anderson wrote:
And about a hundred million OTHER GUNS killed no one.. My guns killed no one, and my buddies guns killed no one.. And ALL OF mys customers guns killed no one, and all their familys guns killed no one , and the NRA members guns killed no one and the militias guns killed no one, and the 700K at local gun ranges killed no one, and -- and --- and --- etc etc etc etc etc.


Ron Anderson wrote:
Ive given my opinion more than once Gary. Its been my personal observation that gen X and baby boomers have raised monsters. Ive seen enough of them to base that opinion on facts. Laws against correcting children, children allowed to shyt their drawers until age 3 and 4 because " they have to learn in their OWN times"...That may SEEM totally ridiculous and anecdotal at best, but its also a prime example of inactive ineffective parenting. And thats where it all starts. Even our society has been redesigned so that kids must raise themselves to a very large degree..And that experiment has been one large failure imho, along with the internet being a great resource and a DEVIL at the same time.

Ron,
Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal evidence.

But if you're going to use the "100 million guns killed no one" then you'll have to explain the logic of your second statement blaming the violence on gen X and baby boomers, when one could state the exact same thing: millions and millions of other kids/young adults killed no one.

I pointed this out before when you tried to make the same contradictory, illogical argument.

It's a multi-faceted issue, that includes both guns, upbringing, mental health, etc.
Degaine

climber
Jun 7, 2014 - 02:29am PT
Ron Anderson wrote:
No i dont Gary.. In fact the proliferation of weapons - some 20 million new gun owners in just the last couple of years has actually led to a DECREASE in violent crimes over all. And has been doing so since the nineties..Those are NOT anecdotal facts but pure statistics. The occurrence of violent crimes has gone down while gun ownership has soared.


There's is no evidence of a link between the two. If you actually have proof of a causal link, I'm all ears (or rather eyes, since I'll be reading).

When you look at the crime statistics from the late eighties into the nineties and you see the drop in crime rates, it corresponds to when post Roe v Wade babies would have been in their prime teenage / early twenties crime committing years. Though taboo for the mainstream media to discuss, there are several experts (economists, crime statisticians) who have indeed hypothesized - and provided the statistical analysis and evidence - that Roe v Wade helped to avoid the birth of babies (unwanted) that would have been raised in those conditions conducive to "producing" criminals.


Ron Anderson wrote:
It is for the most, school aged kids and young adults now committing these school shootings- those that were raised by boomers and gen x-ers. As much as kids now are of the instant gratification generation, so are the parents. Little jimmy acts out in class, call it ADD and give him ridlen. Little jimmy is depressed, give him mind drugs. There was NO SUCH THING as ADD when we grew up- as we had that cured by a principles paddle.


Seriously, you don't know what you are talking about. Funny that you've accused others of blaming the "proliferation of guns" as a feel-good cop out to the problem, and then you trot out the tripe you just wrote to make yourself feel good that these mass shootings are somebody's else's problem and doing and not yours.

As I just posted, there are tens of millions of kids not committing crimes or killing people, so strike one to your argument. Next, there are millions of well behaved kids who have never received physical punishment as a means of discipline, so strike two to your argument. And finally, could you remind us of how many kids you have and your experience in raising kids? Strike three to your argument.

FYI - your post comes off as chastising us parents for not beating our kids to discipline them. You don't in seem like the kind of guy who would advocate child abuse. Might want to work on your tone and reread what you write before posting.
Degaine

climber
Jun 7, 2014 - 02:36am PT
Toker Villain wrote:
I guess that there is no other way a criminal could get a gun. Certainly they wouldn't want to risk doing something illegal in order to acquire a firearm because the cops would always catch them and punish them.


That's the same type of argument made regarding illegal immigration - placing the blame on Mexicans crossing the border without the right paperwork as if companies like ConAgra or Purdue are just innocent victims in the whole affair and have never actively recruited immigrants illegally.

Gun manufacturers care about the bottom line. They and their lobbyists are powerful enough to push changes in the law for stricter enforcement if that is what they wanted. The day the government truly starts cracking down - perhaps it will start through the courts with huge settlements when plaintiffs start suing gun companies for wrongful death and winning - you can bet the gun companies will make sure that their products don't end up in the wrong hands.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Jun 7, 2014 - 04:25am PT
Hey Degaine,
I believe you miss the point. Many millions of law abiding citizens have a right protected by the constitution. We do not wish to have it infringed upon by you or like thinkers.

Stricter regulations may seem the solution but we choose not to give up our rights. Pretty simple.

You and the few thousand gun fearing folks will just have to find a solution that will be both effective and not restrict us law abiding folks. A little more difficult, but we won't stand for the easy way.

Burly Bob
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jun 7, 2014 - 06:49am PT
Dear Degaine,,I have MUCH experience raising kids more than ANY OF YOU KNOW here on this forum.

I will no give 1 tiny example from a lady i dated long ago. She had two young sons, ages five and six at the time. It would take her THIRTY times spread over two plus hours each and every night to get them to go to bed. She would threaten them with all manner of ways but never followed through and those two sons had zero "respect" for her and did as they pleased until after 9:00 pm and then some. Finally one night, she asked me to step in, and i told her id be happy to but that she must play by my rules. So the next evening i sat the two down and explained that they would now have to go to bed or else they would get a spanking from me and that i was serious. Of course they didnt believe me either due to previous training from their mother.. There had never actually been follow through consequences.

Upon hearing them tearing around in their room after i put them to bed , i walked in and told them both they would now get spanked, served up said spankings and put them each into their beds. I then went out and told the mother not to respond to any of their crying. That was rather hard for her,, but after that, when they were told to go to bed, they did just that and right then. She thanked me profusely and couldnt believe the results.


I do not talk about much of my personal life here or anywhere else on the internet. SO your strike three theory was just that. A theory..


Further more i AM of the baby boomer generation and have many friends and know many others in that and gen x, who i have personally observed as being extremely ineffective parents. The mere fact that little kids still shyt their britches at 3 and beyond is utterly ridiculous. ( in the late 50s/early 60s my siblings and i were potty trained at 14 months- there were no disposable diapers then). And the "learning in their own time" philosophy is a sad joke on them. In life, one must learn on many other time tables and not your own perceived ones.

Kids are out of control far more these days because thats the exact way they have been raised. And of course im NOT saying that ALL KIDS are raised that way. In fact ive commented about other STers here about how i observed their kids to be very well raised, like KennyTs youngsters who i met at the first woodfest. I observed them to be very well mannered and trained.







and +1 to xtremcat..





edit: And further more Deagaine,, it is NOT govts place to let thirteen yr old girls have free access to morning after pills WITHOUT parents knowledge. That in effect usurps parents rights.. Instead of doing the hard thing and raising kids with responsibility, the govt in its infinite stupidity decided to do just that. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jun 7, 2014 - 09:43am PT
Ron,

Do you have any kids of your own? I have a son who is 21 now and about to graduate from college.

Out of all of his friends growing up, there were only a few bad apples. I think that we were much worse growing up in the seventies.

Potty training for number two at 14 months I call bullsh#t. They have only been walking for 2 months on average and don't know how to speak yet.

jstan

climber
Jun 7, 2014 - 09:55am PT
A bunch of six year olds shot dead and then that video. It took all of that to give us discussions of potty training instead of talk about the constitution.

Is this enough to cause us actually to do something about it?
Degaine

climber
Jun 8, 2014 - 12:40am PT
xtremecat wrote:
I believe you miss the point. Many millions of law abiding citizens have a right protected by the constitution. We do not wish to have it infringed upon by you or like thinkers.


You're the one who missed the point and the utter contradiction of Ron's argument. If his argument is that guns aren't a problem because millions of guns and gun owners have not been used in mass shootings, then he can't argue that it's the bommers' and genx's faulty parenting skills since there are millions of their law-abiding kids not involved in mass shootings.

Do you see the failure in logic there?

Second, Toker Villain is naive and severely misinformed if he doesn't think that the gun manufacturers aren't complicit in the illegal sales of their weapons. They turn a blind eye to what is going on since it's good for the bottom line.

xtreme cat wrote:
Stricter regulations may seem the solution but we choose not to give up our rights. Pretty simple.

Let's start with enforcing the laws currently on the books and then at the least have a federal database for mental health issues and criminal records.

xtreme cat wrote:
You and the few thousand gun fearing folks will just have to find a solution that will be both effective and not restrict us law abiding folks. A little more difficult, but we won't stand for the easy way.


Gun fearing? You, Ron, and the apparently droves of people rushing to by guns every time the NRA erroneously claims that Obama will take their guns are the ones living in fear.

But I'll admit, if someone ever pointed a gun at me, yeah I'd be scared. And if you claim you wouldn't be, well you're just full of sh#t.
Degaine

climber
Jun 8, 2014 - 12:52am PT
Hi Ron,

You're anecdote is just that, an anecdote. But you indirectly answered my question, no you don't have kids, and hitting someone else's kids does not translate to parenting experience.

My kids behave just fine and I've never laid a hand on them. Violence begets violence.

You might think that hell has frozen over, but I do indeed 100% agree with you that boundaries need to be set.

Thing is, both myself and millions of other parents have been and are able to set boundaries without physical punishment. It's much harder work, but according to xtreme cat in his post above, that's what "your team" is all about, never taking the easy way out and working hard. Spanking, or hitting, or even going so far as to beat a kid is the easy way out, a cop out.

Ron Anderson wrote:
Further more i AM of the baby boomer generation and have many friends and know many others in that and gen x, who i have personally observed as being extremely ineffective parents. The mere fact that little kids still shyt their britches at 3 and beyond is utterly ridiculous. ( in the late 50s/early 60s my siblings and i were potty trained at 14 months- there were no disposable diapers then). And the "learning in their own time" philosophy is a sad joke on them. In life, one must learn on many other time tables and not your own perceived ones.

Kids are out of control far more these days because thats the exact way they have been raised. And of course im NOT saying that ALL KIDS are raised that way. In fact ive commented about other STers here about how i observed their kids to be very well raised, like KennyTs youngsters who i met at the first woodfest. I observed them to be very well mannered and trained.

Anecdotal, all anecdotal, and a complete contradiction to your logic (or lack thereof) from previous posts.

According to your very own posts, crime rates overall, murders, and mass shootings have dropped in recent years, so how could kids possibly be out of control? Or at least be behaving to an extent that's dangerous for society?

As elegantly put in Good Morning Vietnam, Ron, "you don't know whether you're shot, f*#ked, powder-burned or snake-bit."

Ron Anderson wrote:
edit: And further more Deagaine,, it is NOT govts place to let thirteen yr old girls have free access to morning after pills WITHOUT parents knowledge. That in effect usurps parents rights.. Instead of doing the hard thing and raising kids with responsibility, the govt in its infinite stupidity decided to do just that. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?


Dude, seriously, put the bottle down. Where the f*#k did that comment come from? Where in any of my posts did I mention 13 year old girls and birth control?

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