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Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 1, 2015 - 02:50pm PT
Regarding the sad incident with the 2 year old. I've been watching/reading news reports on this looking for the answer to one question and seen nothing.

The average trigger pull for a double action pistol, a revolver or the first shot of a semi-auto is a lot for a two year old to muster up. Ideal trigger weight is about 5-8 lbs. My Beretta is heavier. In any case a light enough pull for a two year old's finger will not work the action. But... If the gun is cocked it will fire easily. So...

Was mom carrying a cocked pistol with a round in the chamber in her purse? If so she caused the accident which killed her. I hope the child is not completely shattered by the event.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 1, 2015 - 03:26pm PT
Regardless of what style handgun or what condition it was in she caused the accident by not keeping control of her weapon. purse is a real bad place for CCW because a purse is something you set down and easily lose control of. Fanny pack is the way to go for a woman. Keeping anything cocked and locked with kids in the house is a super bad idea.


How about the georgia police chief who just accidently shot his wife....
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jan 1, 2015 - 05:02pm PT
It was a fluke.

The probability of being shot by your own child with your own gun is almost as remote as the probability of actually needing a gun in an Idaho Wal Mart.
zBrown

Ice climber
BrujÚ de la Playa
Jan 1, 2015 - 05:12pm PT
California code:

See especially (c)(2) an (c)(3) and BTW how many reasonable men/women do y'all run into on the ST or elsewhere in going about your business.

(2) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits the crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the second degree" if he or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes injury, other than great bodily injury, to himself, herself, or any other person, or carries the firearm either to a public place or in violation of Section 417.

(c) Subdivision (b) shall not apply whenever any of the following occurs:

(1) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry to any premises by any person.

(2) The firearm is kept in a locked container or in a location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure.

(3) The firearm is carried on the person or within such a close proximity thereto that the individual can readily retrieve and use the firearm as if carried on the person.

(4) The firearm is locked with a locking device that has rendered the firearm inoperable.

(5) The person is a peace officer or a member of the armed forces or National Guard and the child obtains the firearm during, or incidental to, the performance of the person's duties.

(6) The child obtains, or obtains and discharges, the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person, or persons.

(7) The person who keeps a loaded firearm on any premise that is under his or her custody or control has no reasonable expectation, based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to be present on the premises.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 1, 2015 - 05:23pm PT
Not really a fluke. bad sh#t happens when you keep a loaded pistol in a purse. too much other crap in there (ever actually looked in one of those things? Wicked scary shit!) and they ocasionaly have an AD just looking for their makeup or keys etc. the fatal shot was a fluke but the AD in the purse was to be expected one way or annother........
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 1, 2015 - 05:34pm PT
I was wondering about that... my 5 year old has barely enough finger strength for a 5-6 pound pull. So maybe she was cocked and "unlocked" with the safety off perhaps on some 1911 variant action? Inside a purse? Geez.... Glock is stock what... like a 6 pound pull?

Ditto the fanny pack holsters with kids/active stuff/hiking... Plenty of room, everyone just assumes I'm a geek or a fag, maybe both. And that's ok with me.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 1, 2015 - 05:38pm PT
Have no idea what kind of piece it was? there are pleanty of glock style triggers out there> i shure as sh#t would not want a 2yr old playing with my glock. sh#t goes bang every time. just ask Plaxico Burris....
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 1, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
http://news.yahoo.com/georgia-police-chief-says-accidentally-shot-wife-000816951--abc-news-topstories.html
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 1, 2015 - 06:11pm PT
You are right Tradman. All my pistols go bang every time. How heavy is the trigger on your glock for that first double action shot? 6,7,8 lbs? Can a two year old pull it? As far as I can figure the gun had to be cocked with one in the chamber. The kid was reaching around in her purse, didn't even have a good angle to make the pull if it could have. I'd give her a Darwin Award but it's too late, she already reproduced. Let's hope the kid is smarter than she was.

It was a fluke.

I dunno. That is not my idea of a fluke. A fluke is when an engine falls off an airplane and lands on your car. Is a loaded gun with the hammer back in your purse a fluke? Is driving on the freeway with no brakes a fluke?

I'd love to hear how the gun could have been fired by the toddler if it wasn't cocked. It could have been cocked and she didn't even know it. Fiddling around with it earlier, left the hammer back, picked it up for her Walmart excursion. Bang.

edit: I think it had to be a revolver. The slide action on a semi-auto would almost certainly have ripped up the kids hand. And keep in mind the kid's hand is not big enough yet to get it's thumb around the grip.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jan 1, 2015 - 06:21pm PT
I agree that fluke really isn't the right word, but my point was about the relative safety of a mom carrying vs. not carrying on a shopping trip.

The odds of a gun accident like this one are incredibly low but so are the odds of needing a gun to protect oneself on a trip to a rural Wal Mart.

I don't have an issue with concealed carry, but I don't understand why some people bother to carry everywhere they go. Seems like more trouble than it's worth.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 1, 2015 - 08:07pm PT
The odds of a gun accident like this one are incredibly low but so are the odds of needing a gun to protect oneself on a trip to a rural WalMart.

Yeah I know. WalMart is a friggin' carnage. Almost as bad as Double Cross before the bolts went in. Would you do Double Cross without packing? Hidden Valley Campground is a pretty shady place if you know what I mean.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but if her gun was cocked with a round in the chamber the chances of an accident - either the one that happened or another one - were not low. Something was almost certain to go wrong. If it wasn't cocked how did the two year old pull the trigger. Heck I've seen adults who have trouble with a 7 lb. trigger, of course they were weak pussies but never the less...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jan 1, 2015 - 09:34pm PT
I don't have an issue with concealed carry, but I don't understand why some people bother to carry everywhere they go. Seems like more trouble than it's worth.

If you are carrying the correct gun for you in a well-designed holster, it is essentially no "trouble" at all. It's like carrying a cell phone, where you just have a habit of putting it on in the morning, and it's just there all the time without you even having to think about it.

Sure, it seems that some areas are more "likely" to be trouble than others, but I'm sure that the woman who got robbed at gunpoint in broad daylight across the street from our office in a "great" part of town didn't expect trouble there that day either. You can't project what's going to happen where, so since it's really no "trouble" to carry, it's also no "bother."

And, for me the key point is to have the citizenry send a more and more consistent message, just as the Colorado sheriffs would like to see sent: "Many of us are armed, you will not generally know who, so you need to really wonder about every violent crime you attempt to commit."
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 2, 2015 - 01:07am PT
The real hypocrisy is you can't open or concealed carry a handgun in the Supreme Court.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 2, 2015 - 04:21am PT
to say that a 2yr old couldn't pull a glock style trigger is silly.

keeping any style handgun in a purse is begging for an AD
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Jan 2, 2015 - 06:17am PT
And, for me the key point is to have the citizenry send a more and more consistent message, just as the Colorado sheriffs would like to see sent: "Many of us are armed, you will not generally know who, so you need to really wonder about every violent crime you attempt to commit."

While most Good Guys With Guns think they're doing something righteous, please keep in mind to the rest of us you're wannabe vigilantes just waiting for an opportunity to use your external death penis.
jonnyrig

climber
Jan 2, 2015 - 07:53am PT
200 lbs of meat in the freezer again this year.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#393031
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Jan 2, 2015 - 08:30am PT
If only there had been someone there with a concealed carry permit. This woman's life might have been saved and the culprit taken care of!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jan 2, 2015 - 09:59am PT
Anti-gunners and their generalizations. LOL

But, if you're determined to equate a gun with a penis, I can enthusiastically say that at any given moment I don't expect to whip out and use my penis. But I'd rather have it through all those moments and not use it than to find a good use for it and not have it!

;-)
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jan 2, 2015 - 10:19am PT
Anti-gunners and their generalizations.

It's only the 2nd of January and we already have a winner for most ironic statement of 2015!

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jan 2, 2015 - 10:23am PT
From Spider Robinson: "If a person who commits felonies is a felon, then God is an iron."

The year's young. The bar I've set, as high as it is, won't last. lol
Messages 4961 - 4980 of total 5646 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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