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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 14, 2013 - 04:13pm PT
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It is clear that jhedge is a dick here, especially to you Ron. Why ask him to do anything when you know he won't? Why don't you just ignore him when he keeps coming at you? I mostly ignore TGT and his ilk... it really isn't that hard. Besides, with jhedge being suck a dick, I fear for my role in the supertopo community. Please don't provoke him or I will have to find another forum to waste my time.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 14, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
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Weschrist writes:
"I absolutely believe anyone diagnosed with certain mental disorders (by say a few independent Drs to be sure?) should definitely have their guns taken away... especially if they choose to take mind fuk drugs as treatment."
Damn straight!
Here's the happy tale of one Anthony Orban. "Happy" only because Orban's dead, and his fat little prison guard partner in crime is now locked up in the same prison system he once "worked" in. But the poor victim still has to live with what happened for the rest of her life.
This guy was a Marine Officer, and a Police Detective, so he obviously knew right from wrong, and had been screened and checked out in every way immagineable. Then one day, he lost his mind ( or he lost the grip on a mind that was already shot ).
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2010/04/anthony_nicholas_orban_rape_de.php
In court - under oath - he blamed Zoloft for his freakout.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/21/local/la-me-rape-zoloft-20120621
I'm with Weschrist here. Anyone on these psychotropic drugs needs to be on the list of Prohibitted Persons.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 14, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
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My point was that gun nuts were killing law officials, just like in Mogadishu.
Jihadi nuts with suicide vests.
Nine militants attacked the court complex, and that six of them detonated suicide vests, said Interior Minister Abdikarim Hussein Guled. The three others were shot and killed during the assault, he said. Guled said he couldn't immediately provide an overall death toll.
Yah, the homegrown jihadis just use knives.
http://gopthedailydose.com/2013/04/06/two-christians-beheaded-in-new-jersey-by-muslim-man-media-silent/
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 14, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
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So now,, anyone taking these drugs will naturally "hear voices" in defense of their crimes.
If We The People make it illegal for mentally unstable people (on or off mind fuk drugs) to have guns, "hearing voices" will be irrelevant. The gun should be traceable back to the last legal source and blame can be placed accordingly. Why would any sane person have a problem with that... unless of course you are in the business of supplying guns to crazy people?
BTW, you gun nuts MUST see how SILLY you look when you claim gun stats from the UK are irrelevant to guns in the US, but bring up suicide bombers in Mogadishu as if they somehow do. Right? You do see that, don't you?
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Apr 14, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
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"undocumented immigrant"
Ron, why would we need more border patrol, the ones that want in illegally
will come anyway despite the law. Why more, tougher immigration laws, we have enough already.
Isn't that your stance on no more gun laws?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Apr 14, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
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In court - under oath - he blamed Zoloft for his freakout.
The audacious frailty in the "Zoloft made me do it" defense is that there is lack of scientific evidence that depression is caused by serotonin imbalance or that Zoloft works to correct any such imbalance.
Thirty million Zoloft prescriptions are written every year.
I'm afraid without tangible confirmation that psychotropic drugs induce violent behavior, depriving an individual of firearms on that basis alone, will fail legally.
Harry Reid's decision to discard an assault weapons ban from a gun control package is regrettable. What realistic or practical civilian need warrants sustained, high volume fire?
Personal defense? Hunting?
Criminals and psychopaths can exploit assault weapons to do great harm...in the possession of the law adiding, they're little more than dangerous toys...toys that can be stolen for ominous purpose.
Certainly, we want firearm ownership denied the unbalanced and criminal. But abandoning the practical argument against assault weapons and giving consequence to the psychotropic drug argument (vis a vis drugs impelling violence, being fuzzy and nebulous) simply won't achieve that result.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 14, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
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I'm afraid without tangible confirmation that psychotropic drugs induce violent behavior
Doesn't have to induce violent behavior. Seems pretty well established that it makes some people loony. Seems like that ought to be enough to warrant restricting access to killing machines?
Of course, IMO, anyone who hears voices that aren't there (drug induced, religious, or otherwise) should not have access to guns. If you want to live in THAT world, fine, but you shouldn't expect others to allow you access to killing machines in this one.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Apr 14, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
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Doesn't have to induce violent behavior. Seems pretty well established that it makes some people loony. Seems like that ought to be enough to warrant restricting access to killing machines
By what criteria is it "well established"?
Five to Eight percent of the U.S. population having taken Zoloft...a handful, in court, claiming it made them commit felonies? Makes some people loony? ...I suggest they were already loony.
Does alchohol make some people obnoxius? ...or are they already belligerent types and the drink lightens their reservations?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Apr 14, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
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^^^
Exactly !
EDIT: That was a pertinent and well suited photo delineation you posted, Norton...
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 15, 2013 - 07:09am PT
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By what criteria is it "well established"?
Five to Eight percent of the U.S. population having taken Zoloft...a handful, in court, claiming it made them commit felonies? Makes some people loony? ...I suggest they were already loony.
Does alchohol make some people obnoxius? ...or are they already belligerent types and the drink lightens their reservations?
By the criteria of medical journals. Sure it may not be the norm, but for fuks sake, the sh#t fuks with your head. In one way or another, it fuks with your head... that is what it does... that is what it was developed to do.
Do we really want to give machines developed that were developed to kill to people on drugs that were developed to fuk with their heads?
It really ain't that hard.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Apr 15, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
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By the criteria of medical journals. Sure it may not be the norm, but for f--- sake, the sh#t f--- with your head. In one way or another, it f--- with your head... that is what it does... that is what it was developed to do.
Do we really want to give machines developed that were developed to kill to people on drugs that were developed to f--- with their heads?
Perhaps you would be generous and direct us to specific medical evidence indicating psychoactive drugs induce violent tendencies in individuals who displayed no such troubled predisposition prior to being prescribed such medication...
...or that such substances impel suicidal proclivity in persons without preexisting self-destructive disposition.
Its gratifying having you here as mental health ranger, Wes...but pivoting gun control argumentation on psychoactive drug use is triumph for the champions of status quo... and continued mass tragedy with assault weapons and high capacity firearms.
Yes, many mass killers were prescribed Prozac, Paxil, Xanax, Zoloft etc...but with nearly half the U.S. population on prescription drugs... and 12% of U.S. women and 4% U.S. men on these or similar antidepressants (99.9% exhibiting no such destructive tendency)...depriving such significant segments of the population 2nd Amendment privilege simply won't fly.
It really ain't that hard.
" establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare,"
Assault weapons in the hands of civilians have proven counter to those ideals expressed in the Preamble of the Constitution.
...decidedly easy
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 15, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
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Perhaps you would be generous and direct us to specific medical evidence indicating psychoactive drugs induce violent tendencies in individuals who displayed no such troubled predisposition prior to being prescribed such medication...
...or that such substances impel suicidal proclivity in persons without preexisting self-destructive disposition.
Your words not mine. You can use google scholar just as well as I can.
Those drugs are designed to fuk with your mind... clearly something we don't know everything about. Every person reacts differently. Taking mindfuk drugs should immediately disqualify you from buying guns. It ain't brain surgery babe.
You ever done drugs Jennie? Didn't think so. I never once had suicidal or violent reactions to the drugs I consumed in high school... some of my friends had different, very different reactions. I appreciate your desire for studies and such... but you don't need a study to know...
PEOPLE ON MIND FUK DRUGS SHOULD NOT HAVE GUNS.
Look, I realize your people are among the largest consumers of antidepressants in the country and I appreciate you struggling to defend them... AGAIN. But wake up for christ's sake.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 15, 2013 - 07:49pm PT
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No Ron, there is nothing "brilliant" about it. It is just more paranoid bullshit you probably read on one of your favorite blogs. It is already illegal to possess guns if you are a "drug addict or user." BECAUSE THEY FUK WITH YOUR HEAD...
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise
dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or
having reasonable cause to believe that such person -
...
(3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled
substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances
Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
Why should a Drs note make it acceptable to have a gun while taking mind fuk drugs? Remember, your bro said they didn't even know wtf they were doing anyway. They dish out whatever the drug reps give them, with minimal oversight or accountability. Half the kids I know are on some kind of prescription drugs... most of which haven't even been around for 30 years and were tested on rats for less than a decade before handing them out like candy.
If they (Feinstein's evil NWO Army) wanted to disarm citizens, they could probably get 90% of the guns in CA and CO based on current pot use. People been smoking pot for millennia... the only fuked up thing I've seen anyone do on pot is eat an entire bag of Doritos and wash it down with a pint of Haagen Dazs, then ask what's for dinner.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Apr 15, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
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Those drugs are designed to f--- with your mind... clearly something we don't know everything about. Every person reacts differently. Taking mindf--- drugs should immediately disqualify you from buying guns. It ain't brain surgery babe
Routine intakes of alchohol and caffeine among the public alters brain chemistry to a greater extent than common dosages of these prevalent antidepressants, Wes.
...antidepressants considered so benign that an M.D. can prescribe them...no need to consult with a psychiatrist.
And, yes, alchohol and caffeine are classified as psychotropic drugs...should we consider disqualifying those who self-medicate with alchohol... or the 90% of Americans who love caffeine's little jolt?
...or should criminal defense counsel be making ready for the "Mountain Dew made me do it" defense?
Denying individuals firearms on the basis of violent, destructive or anti-social inclinations is valid and logical. But using standard and well-established antidepressants as a guage for disqualification just won't work legally. The no-bridle gun advocates know that...and will be happy watching the gun-control colt galloping off into the loose and reinless badlands.
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hillrat
Trad climber
reno, nv
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Apr 15, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
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ex-wife's kid physically attacked her while on nothing more than "pot". So I guess we all have different experiences don't we?
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Apr 15, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
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If you believe that law-abiding citizens, domestic abusers, convicted felons and the mentally ill should all be able to avoid background checks simply by buying firearms at gun shows or through classifieds or internet advertisements, please call your Senators tomorrow and ask them to oppose the upcoming legislation as an unacceptable infringement on the rights of criminals and the mentally ill.
If you believe that anyone selling guns to strangers should be required to ensure that stranger is not prohibited from owning guns, please call your Senator and ask them to support this legislation.
This legislation will not stop all gun violence, is far from sufficient, but it will save more lives than putting armed guards in every school, cinema and shopping mall would.
TE
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