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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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so you are cool with taking guns away from military personal if they take these meds?
Yep.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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What about keeping them away from people with or who have had drinking problems?
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John M
climber
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I agree Ron, many of them are over perscribed. But I have seen them help people and even on the short term.
I think about the police officer who is shot in the line of duty and also loses his partner. He is dealing with heavy PTSD and could use the help of these drugs, but now with this new law Blue proposes he wont go to the doctor to get help because he knows he will likely never be allowed to work as a police officer again. So he doesn't get help and the problem gets worse instead of better. But he keeps his job because he is able to hide the problem and he doesn't take the meds.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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What about keeping them away from people with or who have had drinking problems?
Nope. Too hard to diagnose. WTF is a "drinking problem"? Too open for misinterpretation.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Hi guys
I have been following along reading your posts.
There seems to be general agreement here that any new laws won't help to mitigate mass murder, but maybe universal background checks is a good idea anyway, can't hurt.
Agreement: no law will be passed to "ban" any kind of weapon not currently banned now
Unlike England, Australia, or Canada-there will not be a general outlawing of guns
conclusion: expect more mass murders, and accept the fact that there is not really anything to be done about it, it is the "price" we pay for a couple guys over 200 years ago writing one sentence into our Constitution, back when they had black power muskets and about one minute to reload.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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conclusion: expect more mass murders, and accept the fact that there is not really anything to be done about it, it is the "price" we pay for a couple guys over 200 years ago writing one sentence into our Constitution, back when they had black power muskets and about one minute to reload.
Yeah, "a couple of guys over 200 years ago", are probably complete out-dated, bitter-clingers, who had no concept of tyrannical governments and personal liberty.
Those stupid men...I bet they were old white Christians too. Idiots.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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An equal militia?
WTF?
Now listen I am warning you guys...
Don't make me draw you in cartoons.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Whew, thanks Ron I was really worrying that it was going to cost so much when i have kids to support and all.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Blue,
Please do not misinterpret my words to be any kind of contempt for our founders.
My point is only that they wrote for their own "times" and had not way of predicting the future, that is not an insult to them but just a fact.
And Blue, your comment about "tyranny":
Back then we had just defeated England here on our own soil and our founders had that memory very fresh in their minds when they said government "tyranny"
But now in the 21st century, the facts are quite different when one tries to make the case that citizens here need weapons not only for hunting and self defense, but also to "defend against tyranny".
There is no defense, period.
IF our own government wanted to, a guy in a basement in Virginia will drop a GPS guided 500 pound bomb from a Drone right though anyone's window in the entire world. Things have changed, owning guns to pretend to fight off the US Armed forces is well, ludicrous.
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John M
climber
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Vets of WW11 and Korea just managed it for themselves, and yes many had problems, but no more so than now a days and more than likely less.
I think that you are talking out of your ass on this statement Ron. Plus comparing a war we won to a war that we lost that had dubious reasons for even being there is apples to oranges. The Vietnam war was a whole nother ball of wax and is difficult to quantify. Many vets felt like they were fighting a useless war. That makes overcoming problems a lot more difficult.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Let us know when you can "equal" this, Rong
What part of personal defense do you continue to miss?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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How many gun-related deaths in "gun-free" Chicago?? Is that working?
All right, fess up what rightwing dipshit blog did you read that on? Or are you just making sh#t up again?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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And Blue, your comment about "tyranny":
Back then we had just defeated England here on our own soil and our founders had that memory very fresh in their minds when they said government "tyranny"
But now in the 21st century, the facts are quite different when one tries to make the case that citizens here need weapons not only for hunting and self defense, but also to "defend against tyranny".
There is no defense, period.
IF our own government wanted to, a guy in a basement in Virginia will drop a GPS guided 500 pound bomb from a Drone right though anyone's window in the entire world. Things have changed, owning guns to pretend to fight off the US Armed forces is well, ludicrous.
Maybe, but could they do that 300 million times? Would they? I think you fail to see the point of the 2nd. It is to allow every citizen a personal defense weapon. From whackos, and a COMMON defense against a tyrannical gov't.
There is no argument here. That is what the 2nd is.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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How many gun-related deaths in "gun-free" Chicago?? Is that working?
I think there were ONLY some 500 last year, in a population of millions.
In fact, that number is not about HALF of the handgun death rate in Chicago prior to 1995 or so when the city of Chicago started seriously enforcing the new gun laws.
So yeah, obviously the gun laws have had a very large effect in a city that size.
Alaska: the LEAST restrictive gun laws in the nation and the HIGHEST gun deaths per capita
Massachusetts: the MOST restrictive gun laws and the LEAST gun deaths per capita.
yeah, it "works", like it or not does not matter
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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I really want to know where "gun rights activists" believe criminals get their guns? Where did those guns ultimately come from?
a) Stolen from "responsible law-abiding gun owners" who have no legal requirement to secure those weapons against theft?
b) Purchased privately from "responsible law-abiding gun owners" who have no legal requirement to ensure purchasers are not criminals?
c) Otherwise-legal straw purchases, which are essentially undetectable until that gun turns up in a shooting and difficult to prosecute because "responsible law-abiding gun owners" are allowed to "lose" their guns in unlimited quantities, or get them "stolen" and not report it?
d) Diverted from the legal trade through unscrupulous dealers who face no real penalties, for fear that "responsible law-abiding dealers" would be unfairly required to keep accurate records of who they sell to?
e) Smuggled in from other countries that don't have these oppressive restrictions?
f) Grown hydroponically?
If the Republicans claim Photo ID is necessary to vote, in order to prevent a virtually non-existent crime, how can anyone oppose the same to buy a gun, or for that matter, bullets?
TE
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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I think you fail to see the point of the 2nd.
I have been very careful to not say anything you can go off on as an insult to you
but please, don't even think about lecturing me on any part of Constitution, including the Amendments as I did not spend three years in law school for nothing, ok?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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If the Republicans claim Photo ID is necessary to vote, in order to prevent a virtually non-existent crime, how can anyone oppose the same to buy a gun, or for that matter, bullets?
Where can you buy a gun w/o photo ID?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Great points Tradeddie.
I vote f for hydroponically grown.
Wait what was the question..
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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I have been very careful to not say anything you can go off on as an insult to you
but please, don't even think about lecturing me on any part of Constitution, including the Amendments as I did not spend three years in law school for nothing, ok?
Feel free to 'lecture' me. I'm all ears. Otherwise STFU.
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