Look Out! Danger!... Or... "Look Out! Weak Sauce."


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May 18, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
Truly hooked. Line and sinker.

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
May 18, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
Arrrgh! I thought it was the real Madbolter. It was in fact the MadboIter1. Still, I think the rating by the FAs is a bit silly, don't you?

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
May 18, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
A-6 is a myth. And A-6+ must be in the land of unicorns and fairies.
Anything above A-3 is frightening.

Found this on one site. I think it is succinct and to the point:
"C6 or A6 does not exist, since the aid climbing scale was developed as discrete scale that is not open ended. Also, since C5 implies the death of both climber and belayer, a rating of C6 could not cause an increase in severity."


Haven't we gone down this road of rating aid above A-5 and I think there was some discussion as to whether A-5 was even attainable. I wouldn't know as I am not stupid enough to try aid at that level. Like I said A-3 is red lining for me.

Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
May 18, 2012 - 06:12pm PT
Arrrgh! I thought it was the real Madbolter. It was in fact the MadboIter1. Still, I think the rating by the FAs is a bit silly, don't you?

Despite the screen name, the posting matches up with the posts on the external blog. Copyrighted to a Mr. Richard Jenson

and who is deleting posts? was 30 earlier today and 27 as of this posting.

Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
May 18, 2012 - 06:16pm PT
hmmm, very interesting.

Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
May 18, 2012 - 06:42pm PT
See how bored I am at work!
I see.

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
May 18, 2012 - 06:49pm PT

Spanish battle armor!!

Look out!!! Aluminum hero at work....

All fatties too, at least use the #2's like any other self respecting
Chisel chump.
Nate Ricklin

San Diego
May 18, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
Yeah, it sounds lame so far, but...

Finish the route first, then talk sh#t about it. If you bail from it talking sh#t about it is lame.

El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
May 18, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
It's all greek to me... trenched heads, etc.

But if Jeremy says it's lame(I choose to use the word "lame") I believe him, being a mud guy and all.

I read the Infestada link, interesting stuff...

A6? Not dead but super dead?

Aid climbers are already creepy enough... on mud?
íNo gracias!

Whassuuuup Jeremy!

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2012 - 12:00am PT
Okay, finally some pics of the line of holes. See the latest post on the blog. Not great quality... just captures from my helmet cam. But they are clear enough to tell the tale. Once I get to the second anchor, I can rap and clean this pile. Then I'll whip out my Canon and do the job right. Then you'll see pics of trenched heads right next to perfectly good conventional gear, and there will be pics of euro-bashies right next to bombproof peckers.

Regarding "dissing on a route before completing it," I'm not "dissing" but merely reporting what I'm finding as I go (such are the wonders of modern technology, lol). You don't have to drink a whole gallon of milk to detect that it's sour. And what I'm finding so far is an entirely, completely manufactured route (even more so than "necessary"), done in abysmal style, wildly over-rated, and with no thought given to producing a sustainable/repeatable route. The "hardest" sections are perhaps A3, and even given a hook anchor (which is entirely contrived just to produce a rating), with the 18-inch spread on the bashies (some of which could not even be removed they are so bombproof), there is just no way that the FA team was looking at pulling the whole house down. "Harder than Intifada" not!

We all know that A6 is a mythical rating, but this route gets nowhere close to it! I've already done the "crux" of the route (according to the topo), and there's nothing proud here at all. This is nothing but a line of trenched heads and (mostly) bashie holes drilled into blankness.

Jeremy posted pics from the FA, which shows the same thing my pics show (and will show better when I clean the first two pitches).

Regardless of whether I continue, whether the thing ever gets a complete SA, or whether mud just obscures the whole mess over time, the myth of "possibly the world's hardest aid route" is already debunked. This thing didn't even knock on the door of A4, must less A5, and much, much less A6 (+).

I'll take a day off and then continue on. Much better pics to follow.

Jeremy, quit tempting me to bail, doggone it! :-)

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2012 - 12:53am PT
Jeremy, you are a baaaad man!


Well, to bed. Wow, that shower was amazing. The first five minutes flow red. It's so hilarious... and felt so good after a week.

Yosemite Valley National Park
May 19, 2012 - 05:10pm PT
Look closely at the first photo.

There is a bolt that the blue lead line is tied into with a figure 8. 2 more down to the left at approx 8-o-clock. 2 more directly below the hook on the far right.

"Hook Anchor" is a hoax

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2012 - 09:06pm PT
I'm about halfway up the second pitch. There are two places that could be the hook anchor, about ten feet apart, but both are just horizontal ledgy things in the middle of the line of bashie holes. No way to tell for sure which one of the two is "it," and they both look about the same.

Of course, I bypassed this "anchor" anyway, because it's just a gimmick, and I'm solo, so a hook anchor is useless to me anyway. Both pitches can be combined into about 185 feet, which is what I'm doing. And the way I reworked the line, the rope drag won't even be too bad.

NO bolt(s) at the hook anchor, though. I can say that for sure. At least, nothing is there now. Perhaps they bolted, pulled, and filled the hole(s). I can't say. But there's nothing there now. Honestly, I think these guys "designed" this thing for a rating. And that anchor was carefully positioned to BE the "death belay" (right where the bashie holes get closest together, btw), so these guys wanted to be "heroes" with that anchor. So, my guess is that they didn't bolt.

What they did instead was drill some of those "bashie" holes DEEP. Upcoming pics will show that I drove baby angles almost all the way into a couple of those holes. So, the supposed A5/A6 bit was a true hoax. Just where they were "heroes" is where they really went to drilling, and SOME of those holes are NOT just for bashies!

Long and short: "No bolts at belays," but pretty much any other imaginable tactic to dumb it down and ease it up was employed.

I plan to finish the second pitch tomorrow, then clean. Decent pics to follow.
Captain...or Skully

May 19, 2012 - 09:11pm PT
From your description, yeah, I'd bail. It just doesn't sound fun. And I'm a guy that climbed that bolt ladder from Hell on the Kingfisher( it took 2 tries, at that...). Trenching heads is lame anywhere, but extra lame in the Fishers. Poor method, even if it works once.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 19, 2012 - 09:18pm PT
I can't imagine it would be worth it to continue. I'd like to see photos of the drilled head placements though.

May 19, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
The desert is a special, and fragile place. Climbing on Wingate sandstone is relatively bomber most of the time, but it is still sandstone. The Cutler and Moenkopi sandstone found in the Fishers is a different story. You might be surprised what's climbable, especially with Peckers, but there's no excuse for trenching heads, or in this case digging what sounds to be huge hole in the rock to fill with aluminum.

I'm really disturbed by some of the BS that has gone on recently in the Fishers. It sets a poor precedent, dumbs down potential routes and damages beyond repair the rock, making as Richard above says, an unsustainable route.

As many of you know, Jeremy and I have done several FA's over the last several years in the Fishers, and we've strived to do them in the best possible, sustainable style. Earlier this spring we started a new route on the Oracle. Jeremy didn't drill at all on the first pitch. However the second pitch didn't pan out, and after drilling a short ladder, we determined that the route would requite a lot more drilling then we felt good about. We sucked it up and bailed rather than drill our way up the formation (hence why we ended up climbing World's End, with its trenched heads, since we had all our gear out there).

I would encourage anyone thinking about climbing new routes in the desert, and especially the Fisher Towers, to really think about what you are doing, the consequences for the rock, and the precedent it sets.

The Fisher Towers is a special, largely unregulated place. Let's all be conscious of our impacts here and really everywhere, and let's all strive to mitigate those impacts.

Captain...or Skully

May 19, 2012 - 09:49pm PT
There's only so much there. We could try not to fhuk it up too much.
Set the precedent honestly. Making the rock pay dearly can cost you, in the eventual...Probably will, too.

Social climber
May 19, 2012 - 09:50pm PT
We send them Chris Sharma and Spain sends us these guys?

I think we got chingado in this deal.

Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
May 20, 2012 - 12:26am PT
This is interesting.
I didn't see any pics in the blog post though.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
May 20, 2012 - 12:43am PT
Uh, are you guys really that stupid, or can you knott read?

This dude is NOT Richard Jensen. Can you not see the misspelling of the user name? [duh]

You have been trolled. I would have expected better from most of you.

Clearly, madboiter1 is knott Richard, because he is knott long-winded enough!
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