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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
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Mar 28, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
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1869 John Muir, Cathedral Peak! Love that guy...a visionary AND a climber
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 28, 2012 - 04:13pm PT
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John,
Thanks for the additions.
> English Hanging Gardens (5.12b) at Big Rock was done sometime around 1970.
added.
> Paisano Overhang at Suicide (5.12c) was done in 5/73.
already had it, but not the letter grade (mea culpa, I could have checked Mountain Project)
> Hangover (5.13a) at Tahquitz was in '77.
added, using 1978 from Mountain Project.
> Also, Bachar was doing a lot of hard things out at Josh circa '75 - '78.
1978/3 - FFA(TR) of Leave It To Beaver 5.11d - Joshua Tree
1978/5 - FFA(TR) of Equinox 5.12d - Joshua Tree
1979 - FL of Leave It To Beaver 5.11d - Joshua Tree
1980/3 - FA(TR) of Baby Apes 5.12b - Joshua Tree
Hard, but after his elbow injury in 1976 he dialed back the extreme difficulty.
from "John Bachar timeline"
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=898272&tn=0
> And there's plenty more, including Bridwell's Abstract Corner, 5.12a/b, at the Cookie, done around 1970 (??).
It's in the guidebook as 5.11d, 1971, Jim Bridwell, et al.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Mar 28, 2012 - 04:58pm PT
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> Also, Bachar was doing a lot of hard things out at Josh circa '75 - '78.
1978/3 - FFA(TR) of Leave It To Beaver 5.11d - Joshua Tree
1978/5 - FFA(TR) of Equinox 5.12d - Joshua Tree
1979 - FL of Leave It To Beaver 5.11d - Joshua Tree
1980/3 - FA(TR) of Baby Apes 5.12b - Joshua Tree
Hard, but after his elbow injury in 1976 he dialed back the extreme difficulty.
from "John Bachar timeline"
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=898272&tn=0
> And there's plenty more, including Bridwell's Abstract Corner, 5.12a/b, at the Cookie, done around 1970 (??).
It's in the guidebook as 5.11d, 1971, Jim Bridwell, et al.
--
Clint, those ratings are not accurate, IMO.
The only people believing Leave it to Beaver is 5.11D are those who have top roped it 50 times. This route is rarely flashed, no beta, even by solid 5.13 climbers.
And the 5.11 rating for Abstract Corner is from the early 70s when 5.12 didn't exist. Have someone from this list go up there now and do it.
Also, if you're going to include the Thimble, then you have to include things like "So High," which is probably 5.12c/d without a cheat stone, and which Bachar did around 1975. Along with countless other super high ball problems.
Not to mention Gill's Crack, in Boulder Canyon, free soloed, I believe, in the 60s, and is somewhere around the 5.12a range, depending on finger size.
JL
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Mar 28, 2012 - 06:11pm PT
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The Beaver rating, I believe came from Moffat's article in Mountain. he also rated Scary Monsters and some other lines 11D.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Mar 29, 2012 - 10:06am PT
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Last night I did a bit of "digging around" and came up with these interesting tidbits from the D.C. area. (I'm recovering from a bit of surgery and can't climb for a while, so have some spare time for such trivial pursuits!!!).
The 5.9 that I vaguely recalled is named PhD or Coffin Climb. It is a steep little number at a crag called Cupid's Bower on an island in the Potomac near Great Falls. It was first climbed in 1936 by Marshall Wood. Nearby at Carderock, MD. are Herbie's Horror (1942) and Biceps (1945) both rated 5.9 (and the grades there are known to be far from "soft")and both first climbed by Herb Conn, whose passing we mourned a short time ago.
Since these routes were most likely climbed as top-ropes, many on here will feel that they "don't count", but they were still impressive achievements especially since they were climbed in sneakers (the guidebook contains a couple of photos of the footwear in action on Herbie's---and an "interesting" tie-in as well)and on the notoriously slippery schist of the region.
However the Carderock Past and Present guidebook also contains the following very interesting entry: "Leonard's Lunacy" 5.10...Donald Hubbard made the ascent in 1943.It was first lead by Herb Conn in 1945 using 3 pitons." The book doesn't say whether or not the pitons were used for aid or protection, however it is unlikely that aid from pitons would have been used for a top-rope ascent, and equally unlikely that a climber such as Conn would have used aid to lead a climb that had been top-roped without. It is possible that these early ascents bypassed the current crux, but even more likely that this may well be the country's first recorded 5.10 lead. The crag also contains another very early 5.10---the Jam Box, climbed by Tony Soler in 1951. The guidebook mentions some departed holds since the first ascent, but describes Soler's climb as "a remarkable feat". Soler was surely an excellent climber, as evidenced by his eponymous routes at Seneca and Devil's Tower.
So a small obscure "local's" area clearly was the scene of some very advanced climbing in the '30s and '40s. It it is equally likely that some similarly difficult top-roping or bouldering was being done at Indian Rock or the other outcrops in the Berkeley Hills, which were also very popular during that time period.
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Mar 29, 2012 - 11:00am PT
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Alan- get well and by the way... didn't you and kevin do Hyperbola and Parabola at the Quarries around '66 ??? Pretty solid 5.11's in my book
In RR's ?
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2012 - 06:29pm PT
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Alan, maybe while you are in injury recovery mode, you will have the interest in turning some of this information into a full blown article!?!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 30, 2012 - 02:00am PT
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Cool, Alan - I updated my page with those climbs.
http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eclint/yos/hard.htm
I also highlighted both hardest leads/highballs and hardest boulder problems, which includes Macabre Roof as the hardest lead in the world at that time (1967, 5.12c). Maniac makes the "hardest in the world" list too (the climb in Phyllis' post that started this thread) - it's obscure; maybe it will get some (more?) repeats?
And it would be way cool if somebody went out and found PhD/Coffin Climb and Leonard's Lunacy - would be great to see some photos!
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Mar 30, 2012 - 02:18am PT
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Pat Ament's book, "Wizards of Rock" is another good source for this type of information.
Curt
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Mar 30, 2012 - 07:38am PT
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In an earlier thread Randisi gave us a thorough accounting of Paul Preuss. Given the timeline I'd say he had a few hard ones.
And Jessie Guthries 'Rainbow Wall'. I think it's at Yellow Creek, Ala. 5.13, done in '78?
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Mar 30, 2012 - 09:32am PT
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Hi Clint, Both PhD and Leonard's Lunacy are in current guidebooks and, therefore, easy to find, especially Leonard's which is at Carderock a compact and popular area. Neither will be particularly photogenic, though I recall that there is a photo of PhD taken back in the day in the Great Falls guidebook. It would be great if someone from the DC area could post-up with more info on these routes. Jstan might remember something, though I'd be amazed if he had any interest in this topic.
As for your "world list". Given how hard it is to come up with a US list, coming up with something reasonably accurate on a wider scale is really daunting. Many of the climbers in the eastern Alps, before and after World War 1 were actually free climbing at quite a high standard, but since some did use aid on occasion, and these routes later were repeated with considerably more aid, it is now really impossible to know how hard they were actually climbing at the time. It is hard to believe that folks like Preuss, Dulfer, Cassin, Comici, etc,etc weren't climbing at least at the 5.9 level--and probably harder, on occasion. At least the climbs in the UK have pretty accurate historical records, so I can add one more to your list. Cave Crack Indirect at Laddow Rocks in the Western Grit region is rated E15b--same as Javelin Blade--and was climbed by Ivar Berg--a Norwegian--in 1914. The Rockfax Western Grit guidebook calls it the "first E1".
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Mar 30, 2012 - 10:37am PT
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Al:
Alan- get well and by the way... didn't you and kevin do Hyperbola and Parabola at the Quarries around '66 ??? Pretty solid 5.11's in my book
In RR's ?
I'm curious as to the answer.
I only went there once with Callaghan but those two routes are still in the memory banks as rated... "five - Yuh Right"
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Hard Rock
Trad climber
Montana
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Mar 30, 2012 - 10:53am PT
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In the mid-80's I wrote in Climbing about doing a 5.15. I didn't name the route. Now that I think about it - I was writing a piece of fiction. Well, at least I was thinking about doing the hardest climb in the US.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Mar 30, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
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Curt and...Jim, You have a more recent Carderock guidebook than I do, as in mine, Silverspot gets a "mere" 5.10, which puts it a bit later than some of the other 10s--even at Carderock. The trouble with "missing holds" (same with Jam Box) is that even the demise of one crucial hold could drastically effect a climbs rating, so unless there is someone around who's done it "before" and "after" we won't know the true 1962 difficulty. Mike Banks, presuming it is the same one, was a very experienced British climber who established difficult new routes in Cornwall during the '50s.
Slabbo and Trundle...Those are just "Quarries 5.10s". Kevin did Parabola during the '66/'67 school year, I repeated it the following year---same with Ladder Line and some others. Hyperbola came a year or 2 later. As you know, the Parabola slab routes are so conditions dependent that they are really impossible to grade accurately. Anyway, they are really just top-roped boulder problems, only climbed after multiple attempts. Fun, none-the-less. Yeah, I think we were climbing in RRs back then. They were great for edging (i.e., Ladderline)but were definitely not the best for the Parabola slab smearing!!!!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 30, 2012 - 04:05pm PT
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> And Jessie Guthries 'Rainbow Wall'. I think it's at Yellow Creek, Ala. 5.13, done in '78?
1986, Rainbow Warrior, 5.13a/b, Jesse Guthrie, Yellow Bluff AL
1987, Tour de Jour, 5.13d/5.14a, Jesse Guthrie, Yellow Bluff AL
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Mar 30, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
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Clint--Add to your list Necessary Evil--14c, Virgin River Gorge, 1995--I think the hardest in the US at the time (Chris was 14).
On the "international" portion of the list I recall that Messner did a route in the Dolomites in '67 or'68 that over 20 years later was routinely bouting the first generation of sport climbers--folks like Hans Mariacher.I don't know what the grade has "settled down" to at this time, but I'm sure it was pretty stiff--hard 11 or maybe 12-something, and knowing Messner's boltless boldness, was probably worth at least an R rating.I'll try to dig up some details--something to do over the weekend.
And, though I haven't done it so can't say for sure, but 10c seems a bit stiff for Cave Crack Indirect. I think E1,5b is more like 10a.
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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Mar 30, 2012 - 05:32pm PT
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YA- "Quarries 5.10" I have done them enough to say 11b and 11c respectively..... anyway the Caderrock sounds wild
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gonzo chemist
climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Mar 30, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
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Yasha Hai, 5.13a(?), 1979(??), Vedauwoo.
I actually don't have much information about this climb. Other than its a finger crack through a roof. A friend of mine freed it last fall for the second free ascent (he thinks). Otherwise, I've never heard of it.
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