Disturbing events you've been witness to?


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Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Feb 19, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
Okay, here is a story/situation that I got myself into around 19 years ago. I am having second thoughts about sharing it, because I am not proud of the final outcome (my not taking action/notifying the police) even though it probably wouldn't have made any diference (but perhaps could have). It was a circumstantial, or hearsay situation, but it came straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. Read my story and tell me what you would have done, or what you think I should hve done. Here is that story...

I moved up to San Jose in the Fall of 1992 to pursue a degree at SJSU. I ended up living in my camper van for those two years rather than rent an apartment, because housing was very high there. It wasn't that bad since I generally parked right next to the college, and they had an excellent gym with an olympic size pool where i could shower and work out. Plus, i spent a lot of time in the library and around school etc.!

While at school, I would generaly move my van every other day, or sometimes everday/night. Early on I took notice of this one house (old Victorian two story/there are allot of those in downtown SJ) which was located on one of the side streets next to the college. Actually, what caught my attention was the characters that lived and visited there. They just stood out in a peculiar way. I couldn't quite put my finger on it initially, just something very different in their dispositions. I recall thinking at first that they were some very dedicated or serious minded white supremasist/skinheads, or whatever. But they didn't necessarly fit that particular type because their clothing and hairstyles varied somewhat, among other things (although some may have leaned that way).

I began to notice one predominate trait (over the two years of on and off parking next to or near their house). That was that they NEVER smiled, never even joked around! It was something that stood out. They just seemed to have a very sullen, even dark and bordering on a sinister attitude. So I just wrote it off as some fringe group or whatever.

They were mostly young (late teens to early twenties), and the one dood who seemed to be either their leader, or at least the person who seemed to be in control of the house and the majority of the conversations, etc, was around 24/25. There were probably 5-6 people living there, plus they got a lot of visitors and people hanging out in front.

So, fast forward to my very last day of school (Dec. '94) and the morning of my last final of the semester that I graduated. I just happend to park right in front of their house that morning because, for one reason, it was close to where my class was where I had the final (@11:00). I wanted to study/cram up until the last moment, so I got there early (around 8:00am).

People were in and out of the house all morning as usual (always seemed to have a lot of people coming and going, or hanging out) so I wasn't really paying any attention. Until, right around 10:30, or so, the one main dood comes out of the house and starts talking to this guy who had just arrived.

I was sitting on my bed in the rear of my van, so they couldn't see me (i didn't have a window van). It probably looked like I had just parked there and went to school (like the majority of the vehicles & their occupants on that street) since they could see that there was nobody in the front two seats.

I had the top vent on the van open and the windows cracked (for ventilation) and could pretty much here everything they were saying. But like I said, I was focused on studying for the final/craming in everything i could. UNTIL, I heard a shift in their conversation which it took a VERY dark and eerie nature.

By then, they had positioned themselves to where they were leaning against my vans side door (i could VERY clearly hear them). I mean, it was like I was standing right next to them and they didn't have a clue that I was there (in there).

This became obvious when their conversation shifted to some VERY dark stuff. It became evident that they were practicing Satanist, I will just leave it at that. But that wasn't was what necessarily shocked or disturbed me (answered some of the questions i had though). Suddenly their conversation took on a this sort of guarded tone in which the one guy (late teens/early twenties) seemed to be trying to pry something out of the "head dood/leader". It went something like this...

Head Dood: "We used the ceremonial knife with the pentagram on the handle." (he described it as being very old, etc).

Guy/Teen: says something about "the baby" (i forget).

HD: (i will NEVER forget exactly what he said) "It was a boy. We dumped him in a lake in the Seirra's."

There was more, regarding the ritual or whatever (it's been a long time) and more discussion about the "ceremonial knife", its importance, the culture it came from/was related to, etc.!

It was a rather long and drawn out conversation in that they would talk about something very general and unrelated (like, for example, what music they listened to or some mutual aquaintance/friend or whatever) and then they would come back to these specific details regarding this gathering/ritual that took place. The main dood was feeding this guy bits and pieces, here and there. Shocking, to say the least. Their tone, their seriousness, the way it was discussed, etc, left me with NO doubt that it was true and actually happened.

SO, there I was, half in shock in regards to what I was hearing, and wanting to get the hell out of there, but also mesmerized by what i was hearing. And I also wanted to get as much info as i could, a name perhaps, or whatever to pass on to authorities. Plus I was also waiting (hoping) for them to wrap it up and leave without them discovering I was sitting right there, privy to everything they had just revealed (a friggin murder/child sacrifice).

BUT, they didn't leave, or at least not before I had to leave. I waited tell the very last minute (about 10:58) and by then I had NO choice. I couldn't miss that final (and moving and finding other parking was scarce by then). If I missed that final, that would have been it. I was getting either an A or a B (don't recall, but never I got lower than a B) but if you missed the final you couldn't get anything above a D, which meant you would have to take the class over, which also meant I wouldn't graduate and would have to take the class over the following semester.

I mean, this was a F'n serious situation and I new it. THINK ABOUT IT. These guys just described this freakin hideous/nightmarish scenario that one of them was involved in, and here I am gonna pop out of this van that they were leaning on and had NO clue that I was in. Plus, if I made it out of there in one peace, I had to leave my van and then return for it in about an hour. That would give them plenty of time to come up with a Plan B (way to eliminate me, or F'N kidnap me or friggin interogate me) or get some backup, or whatever. In the very least, they had my van description and liscence plate #!

SO, what I decided to do was; 1) look as nonchalant as I could be (look like i was oblivious to what was just discussed between them). 2) put on my headphones to my Walkman (i had one of those yellow Sport Walkmans) and crank up the music real loud so they would perhaps think that I had been listening to the music all that time and couldn't hear what they were saying. And 3) I new that I was going to have to make eye contact and in the process maintain a VERY, like I said, nonchalant/oblivious air/look. Plus, I new that the person I had to make eye contact with was the HD (head dood/leader, or whoever he was).

So, at the last possible moment I pop open the van sliding side door. As it was, the HD guy was leaning on the friggin door and he was totally caught off guard. I mean you should have seen the look of shock and disbelief on his face. I felt as though I kept it pretty cool, casual, nonchalant. 0h yeah, I didn't have any chewing gum, but I decided to make it look like I was chewing some. Somehow, under the circumstances, I felt as though it would help me cover/mask the way I was really feeling (my facial expression). So I concentrated on chewing some nonexsistant gum, which helped me deal with some otherwise fake neutral expression I was going to have to present with. That was how I dealt with it anyway.

It happened very quik, plus I caught them completely off guard. I was off and down the street towards the school before they could come to their senses. Not sure what they did, I didn't look back, I just kept walking.

When I got back my van was sitting there like I had left it (i kinda thought it would have a flat tire or the wiring might have been messed with to delay my get away or whatever). It started right up and I headed out of town, out of San Jose for good.

I was looking in the rear view mirrors and expecting to see someone following me. Or at least wathing to see where i was going (living) or if I was going to go to the police station or whatever. And I did agonize over that, and I now believe i should have. There was more to the story (more details, etc) that i have since forgotten. But nothing that could pinpoint the exact spot where they dumped the kid (name of the lake, etc) he just said "in the Sierra's"! And I'm sure he got rid of the knife, or would have sometime soon after I popped out of the van (if it was in his house) because he did go into some specific details besides the petagram on the handle (described the blade & the specific area/style it was, etc) and seemed as though he/they were fond of it and still had it.

But it all came back to me (or what I can now recall) early this morning. So I decided to share it here. I guess to kind of get it off my chest/shoulders (or hope it would help some). Not that it bothers me that much anymore, i haven't thought about it in a long while. Actually I did bring it up on some thread here on ST about a year or two ago, but ended up deleting it the next day (no one commented on it, and it was kind of off topic). It is not a very comfprtable topic to discuss.

I have had a lot of strange situations of this nature (as you probably have noticed by some of the stories I have told). I must say that I wonder how & why me, at times. Like I have said, it has been a long strange trip.

And like I said, I now wish that I would have reported them/this to the SJPD. I guess I figured that they probably wouldn't have done anything (or thought I was a nut case). I mean what could they do? It would have just been my word against theirs. But I did have the address and the discription of the one head dood guy, and they probably would have at least kept an eye on the place & perhaps him. Oh well...
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 19, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
You've got a lot of good stories splitter. Babies don't disappear every day, and I wonder if it was a baby animal of some kind they sacrificed. You'll never know. It's not a crime to not report a crime, so don't worry about that part. Plus whatever happened the police would have considered you a suspect and you'd have wished you'd never gotten involved.

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Feb 19, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
DP - thanx, i'll cling to that at this point.

but i never looked at it that way. i seemed to be certain of it at the time. there were other things they said and the way they discussed it. regardless, why would they go through the trouble of throwing the body of some animal in some remote Sierra lake? i can't recall the specifics (what the other guy asked), but he was making a point/assured him that it would never be found. like i said, there is a lot that i don't recall, that i can no longer play back in my mind. in fact, i was surprised when i went to write it up this morning, since i only wanted to use specific statements that i could recall/quote, and i could only came up with a couple. just as well, i guess.

as far as the missing child goes, this (Satanism) is an age old "religion", they have ways around that. for instance, it wouldn't be missing if it wasn't documented (birth). i mean, if they were hard core (and these guys sounded like they were) they would probably use what they refer to as a "breeder". obviously, it's a very underground religion.

like i said, this isn't a comfortable subject, and there really isn't much point in talking about it...on any level...past, present, or future. churches don't even discuss it (or very rarely do). because it is so dark, and your going DEEP into the enemies (Church speak) territory / religion ... and sh#t happens (when you do that). plus, there is nothing that can be done about it, regardless of the tense. it has been going on for a long, long time. it is documented throughout the Bible.

not sure why i even brought it up, other than i thought about it again for the first time in a long while. and, it was INDEED disturbing. very odd also, in regards to the timing, right before my last final/last day in San Jose. i suppose i was fortunate in those regards, since i probably wouldn't have slept so well in my van (nor parked so close to the campus) from that point on. very eerie, to say the least.

as far as they may possibly have suspected me. never considered that. not that it would have bothered me. i would have done my part by reporting it, that was my only concern/regret.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 19, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
It's true, you can sit there and watch someone commit a crime while the victim begs you for help, and you don't have to help, and don't have to ever tell anyone - it's not a crime unless you help the person, or help them hide from the police, or something like that. Sounds terrible but making people criminally responsible when they are only observers leads to other issues.

There is no statute of limitations for murder, and the police could probably figure out who lived there then, but the odds of solving the crime now seem pretty low. There would be nothing left of the remains dumped in a lake. But I bet this was the only baby abducted and the mother probably thinks it was an illegal adoption. I would let it rest.

Feb 19, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
frank wyman

Mountain climber
Feb 19, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
You can be charged...Didn"t you see the last episode of Seinfeld??

Trad climber
Washington DC
Feb 19, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
I really haven't had any up close disturbing encounters. I guess the one that sticks with me is from the late 70's. It was 77 or so and I was on NA Wall. A team of three were bailing from the Nose. I remember following their raps as I was hanging in slings belaying. I turned away for a bit and when I looked again they were no where to be found. I learned later when we topped out that it was a team of three Minnesotan's who plunged to their deaths. They had only been clipping into the chains on the stations, not directly to the bolts. Bolt popped and they all slid off the chain. Sad
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 19, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
Marty, when I saw a base jumper die on el cap it was kind of like that. No sound when she landed or any indication of anything going on down at the base. You're just too far away to hear and see it.

Trad climber
Sacramento CA
Feb 19, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
I work in hospitals all over CA and NV and see disturbing stuff all the time. The least of which is pale, obese people with pale, obese children bringing their sick, pale, obese family member McDonald's while they are in a hospital bed... and I see that constantly. Also disturbing is that we are slowly making hospital chairs, toilets and wheelchairs twice as wide to accommodate the awful future of humanity instead of trying some more serious proactive decisions.


Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Feb 19, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
You can be charged. Didn't you watch the last episode of Steinfield?

Not worried about being charged, since I'm not guilty of anything. Other than not reporting something I heard two people discussing, whom would have denied (2 to 1) that they even said it/or were just kidding (or whatever). I mean, I was pretty aware by that point in my life how reporting such a story would turn out. Just look at the McMartin, etc., case. And I seriously doubt that they could actully do or would have done anything about it. But then I suppose I will always have my doubts.

By "breeder" I was refering to a woman that is either in their own coven, or another coven that gets pregnant and gives birth specifically for that purpose (for a scheduled sacrifice). I wasn't refering to an "adopted" or "kidnaped" baby. But who knows where they got it, they didn't say. And like I said, they also didn't say what lake it was, just that they went out of their way to dispose of it there. So they couldn't have found and dragged or scuba searched the lake. But i suppose I still should have said something. I am generally a person of action.

Anyway, since I'm on the topic, here is another similar one from my even more distant past.

I lived in Mammoth from the Fall of '74 to the Spring of '82. I met this guy my very first win ter there, because he was one of the waiters/bartenders (forget which/i think he did both) at this well known restraunt in Mammoth (smaller restraunt). He worked there the whole time that I lived in Mammoth, and for at least several years after.

He was very friendly. Always had a big smile when ever a ran into him in town or on the mountain, etc! He had a one steady girlfriend the whole time. He was about my age (24) when I moved there. I also new about 4-5 of his close friends on a first name basis. Had spent afternoons or evenings at a mutual friends place with them over the years. They weren't reallyh the type of people that I would seek out as good friends, would want to necessarily hang with or go skiing with on a regular basis, but I got along okay with them on an acquaintance sort of level.

Anyway, one summer I pack up and move back to San Diego (around 79/8o). So did my/our mutual friend. I didn't really hang with him here in SD much, since we mainly had skiing in common. But I did go and visist him a couple of times.

So this one time I go to visit him up in Leucadia/Encinitas, this guy & his girfriend are visiting him also. They had taken off from Mammoth to take this trip down thru Mexico and stopped by his place on their way back to Mammoth. They were already there when I arrived.

Long story short, we have this intense encounter. First off, there was no way that they could have known I was a Christian. I know I didn't tell them, and my friend didn't know. And from about the time I was 19 to about 32+ years old, I told NO one I was a Christian. I was, but nobody had a clue. In fact, they probably would have been shocked, or had some serious doubts if I had admited that I was. It's called "back slidden" (church speak) lol!

So I show up at my friends place and my friend and him are in his livingroom and their two girlfriends are down on the beach (he lived in a condo on the beach). Everything is going fine for the first few minutes, I had told him I had bailed from Mammoth and had no intentions of ever returning.

So after a bit the three of us go down to the beach (he lived on a bluff overlooking the beach). As I walk up his dog, a big St. Bernard, takes one look at me and lets out this ferocious growl and leaps from his sitting position and takes this loud jaw snapping bite/snip at my neck. I mean it went for the jugaler, but it stopped just short, like less than an inch. I mean it was sending me a message.

It didn't scare me, just sorta pissed me off. I mean the dog could see that I was with its master as we approached, in fact I was between him and my friend. Very wierd. I just told him I wasn't afraid of any dog, and that it better not try it again. Not sure what i was gonna do, but I was gonna at least go down fighting. I didn't say it in an overly harsh or confron tin g way, I just simply said it like I meant it. No big deal.

What also pissed me off was the look on his face when the dog jumped and snapped at me. It looked as if something dawned on him. He simply looked at the dog and thenlooked at me with this sinister look. It all happened right as we got there, and was over in seconds. I mean iwasn't even that close to the dog. He was closest, I was maybe 3-4 feet behind him. Totally uncalled for.

So I barely get my warning out of my mouth and Tim (his name) blurts this, "Your God isn't the only god in in the universe!"


I mean out of the blue. And the dood is just SEETHING!!!

He went totally ballistic. Kept repeating it over and over, was challenging me, etc! He went on to say that he was a Satanist, tarted bragging (for lack of a better word) about him being a high priest, etc and all this other sh#t, of this coven in Mammoth for all these years. Turns out these other peeps/friends of his that I mentioned are also. I mean these guys were hard core worshippers. And he went tottally off on me about it. I mean I have never confronted nor seen such seething hatred for another human being, and it was directed at me. His girlfriend simply stood up and just glared at me. I didn't say a damn thing. I couldn't believe what was happening.

So, he finishes his rant and packs up and splits for Mammoth, pronto. Cut his stay at the beach and their visit with our friend on the spot (eviden tly they were planning on staying a few days longer). An d evidently he didn't want to be anywhere near me.

Extremely wierd. My friend agreed. He was as blown away as I was.

As it turned out, I decided to return to Mammoth that Fall because Iscored this night parking crew job (only person on parking crew at night). It was a cruz job because there wasn't a damn car in the parking lot at night. I just sat in the office or played hackeysack with the cleaning crew (i had worked nightcrew/janitor for the prior few seasons), or pigged out in the cfeteria. And I got off at 11:00 and could ski all day. I was mainly there in case it snowed, in which case i would make sure no one left their care in the parking lot and therefore blocked the snow plows.

But here is what is disturbing that I wanted to share with everyone. There was this young black kid that this group (coven or whatever) had befriended. He worke in a small restraunt jus down the street from this Tim guy (not really sure how they met). So one night all of them (or at least 5-6) and this young black kid (about 19-20/he had just moved to Mammoth) were down at Hotcreek one night (just them, no one else). So the next day the story comes out in the paper (and all over town) that the kid ends up dead.

Here is what they said happened...

They said that the kids dog fell into one of the hot pools, and he went in after it and they both died.


I had personally been to Hotcreek many of times. Had brought my own dog (Golden Retriever) and my two good friends had brought their two German Shepards and all three of them stayed WAY clear of those scalding hot pools. Dogs just have the good sense to not go anywhere near those pools. Plus there are always a lot of dogs down there (or where back then before it was closed). I NEVER heard of a dog falling into one, let alone dying as a result of that.

And even so, who would be dumb enough to jump in after one, because it would obviously be a hopeless situation/suicide.

I had SERIOUS doubts as to what happened, although I suppose it could have.

BTW, one guy and two girls (girl/boyfriend & the two girls tight) worked at the main lodge where i worked. All were low level (medium level, at best) but year round employees. I had a few extremely strange encounters with them that winter. It was as if they had never known me, and got very wierd when we were in close contact with each other (particularly when we were alone). I don't think I could adequately describe it, and you probably wouldn't believe me if I could anyway. But, simply put, they were extremely uncomfortable and became very agitated in my presence. This may sound wierd, but I seriously felt as though a couple of these peeps were possesed, the way the were reacting. I never said a thing to them, wasn't much to be said on my part.

edit: hey, like i said, both of these stories happened a long time ago, and nothing of that nature has happened since. Except my story about the three times in the middle of the night that I was awoken by this dark presence that paid me a visit (on the ghost thread). If you brecall (if you read my three posts) "I new that there was something standing at the foot of my bed before I even opened my eyes." I mean I sat bolt upright from a very sound sleep three times in a row that night. And like I said, it was this dark presence that was as if ALL the evil in the whole universe was condensed into it. And like I said, I had absolutely no fear.

But that's another thread. I still haven't finished my third encounter with it (here's a clue, it was NOT a "ghost" ... much more sinsister than that). BTW, I had NO doubt precisely whom it was after its third and final visit that eveining. He made that very clear. Perhaps I will get around to finishing that story on the "Ghosts" thread one of these days. VERY heavy! And I must admit, I was a bit scared (probably a bit of an understatement) by the time that third visit was over. I certainly didn't return to sleep like I had done the first two times.

Like I have said, "It's been a long strange trip..."!

EDIT: I was just thinking, maybe I could get my own reality TV show. Call it something like, "Spend the weekend camping in a graveyard (or wherever) with Splitter". LOL

MartyG - I recall that accident, I was living on the eatside and frequenting the Valley at that time (was either there, or arrived a day or two later). Evidently they were raping the Rorh bolt route after bailing from the Nose, and were cutting lose their haulbag from each rap point (letting it fall the full 165 ft to the end of the haul line. And it broke one of the bolts (or a hanger actually i think) and it slashed the 1" tubular webbing that they were all hanging from. Very tragic. BTW, probably a good thing that you just happened to turn away at the last moment. But extremely disturbing none the less.

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Feb 19, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
Seeing Peter Croft actually fall on Swept Away sometime in the 90's...Looked like he was guiding. Fell at the crux. Muttered something about "effing slabs"....

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
Man Splitter! I never know what you're going to talk about and it always has me glued to the screen with questions to think about afterwards. It really hasbeen a long strange trip! I know Mine has and I haven't had those events you' e had.

Marty I remember that accident too. I was in the valley just after. What I heard was what sitter said, they clipped around the chain etc....

So, another disturbing thing I've only been second hand witness to, is the phenomena that inspired the billion rising event the other day.
One out of three women have or will be raped or severely beaten in their lifetime. That is staggering! almost impossible to comprehend!
I known now and have know women who have been raped and some, fewer, that have been severely beaten. But if that is the statistic, I know a lot more of both than I think.
And so do you!

That, is truly disturbing!

If one in three women are the victims, what is the rate out of the total population, of the perpetrators? We must all know them as well!
That's disturbing in it's own way.


Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Feb 19, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
ruppel - Fear the indiferance of good men.
You obviously know little about me, other than what I revealed on this one post. At least I was honest about it.

Like I said, "I consider myself as a person of action." ... not one of indeiference. For instance, perhaps you haven't read any of the approximately three threads on which I shared my story about how, at about 21 or 22 years old (forget) I took an evening walk with a couple friends and about a block from my house, as we were turning the corner, we smell/get a brief wiff of smoke. We couldn't tell what or where it was coming from (fire or chimney) so we continued on.

Just as we reached the last house on the block, this man (about 30) come flying out of the side door of his house/kitchen. It was as if an explosion of flames shotrocketed him out. He ran the few steps to the curb. His shirt was burt off of him and as he lean ed to sit down, ALL the skin of his right hand, arm and shoulder dripped off into a big puddle next to the curb. I was right there at his side. He just looked ( a pleading look) up into my eyes and said, "My baby is in there." That was all he said. But it was obvious what he was implying, asking.

I ran around to the front door and grabbed the handle (it was very hot) that should have been a clue to what happened next (as i opened it) a blast of heat and smoke and flame literally blasted me back into my two friends knocking them and me flat on our ass. I am pretty certain that is what burned all the hair off my face (i had no eyelashes, eybrows, knosehair, sideburns, etc. after that, and gave me 1st and 2nd degree burns on my face. Fortunately I was wearing a relatively heavy sheaphearders coat (it was late Oct/early Nov).

Dark smoke was pouring out of the door. You couldn't see a damn thing. It was down to about 21/2 to 3 ft off the floor. I had to crawl on my stomach and then hands and knees into that inferno.

I recall it being so hot that I couldn't breath through my nose. I had to take these tiny sips through my clenched teeth, and could barely squint. The carpet was hotter than hell. I ended up with blisters not only on my hands, neck and ears, but on my knees that were covered in my levi jeans.

You have NO CLUE how hot it was in there. I just kept going deeper and deeper into the living room and towards thw hall way. The smoke was slowly lifting to about half way up the wall, but the fresh air was obviously giving more oxygin to the situation. Things were starting to explode ito flame (lamps and things) without any actual flames touching them yet.

I don't want to seem like some macho brave dood by saying this all the time, but I had zero fear. Actually, I don't think people sense fear in those situations. Thinking about them in the middle of the night when you wake up in a cold sweat thinking about it (later on) maybe, but not while it is happeneing, your too focused on what you are trying to accomplish (or whatever you call it). I just had one thing on my mind ... there was a "baby" in there, and I wasn't gonna come out of there without it.

Anyway, I made to the hall and part way down it, I see this woman crouched against the wall holding this budle wrapped in a blanket (or somethign) I firgured it was the kid. She had her eyes closed and looked like she just gave up, or something. I don't remember saying anything (i may have) but suddenly she opened her eyes (when I was a 2-3 ft from her).

She gave me this very odd look. Like, what is this guy doing crawling across my floor. Then it looked like she came to her senses (remebered what was going on) and she jumped out and ran past me into the livingroom and out the door (with the baby in her arms).

I followed.

She collapsed on the front lawn. I don't think she recovered (woke up) for at lest a week. She almost didn't make it. Was on life support, etc! But I do remember that she was released about 3 weeks later (primarily smoke inhalation). The baby was released the next day (no damage done). The man was in the burn unit for about two weeks, and then was released.

I didn't go to the hospital, probably should have. It was 1972 (maybe '71) and if you didn't have money, you didn't go to the hospital unless you were CERTAIN you were dying (at lest my family didn't).

The ambulance got their awithin 5 minutes after we exscaped. The livingroom and hallway exploded into flame within a minute or two after we got out. The whole place burnt to the ground. It was a VERY good thing that we got out exactly when we did and no later.

I really didn't think that much of my part in the whole thing. The kid next door, evidently told everyone what happened (they stayed outside). I cetainly didn't consider myself a hero. Not that it made any diferent one way or another. I was just happy that the kid got out.

But, about 15-20 years later we are all gathered together as a family (for some occasion) and evidently one of our guests brought up some story that includied or perhaps concluded with that title (hero) don't recall what it was about. And my older sister blurted out "John is a hero." I didn't have a clue what she was referring too. Then she told the story. I hadn't really seen it that way. I hadn't carried them out in my arms or whatever. But I did open the front door and that caused the smoke to lift enough that she got a breath of air (perhaps) and came too for a moment and could see, and find her way out. Otherwise they probably both would have died.

Besides, I think there a VERY few people in this world that, if they had looked into that mans eyes and saw what i saw and heard what I heard him say, "MY BABY IS IN THERE." That wouldn't have done exactly what I did. I know I couldn't have lived with myself if I hadn't have given it 100%. I mean who wouldn't have? There was an innocent baby in there. Could you have just let it die? You don't need to answer, I know you would have. besides (should anyone have any doubts about themselves) you weren't there so wouldn't really know what I'm talking about. In a hypothetical situation you might have to wonder about it (have some doubts). In a real situation it is much diferent. In my opinion (having experienced it) it would be MUCH better to die trying, then to have not given it your all.

edit: the baby in my other story was already gone. There was nothing I could have done in that respect. They should have been brought to justice, but I doubt that would have happened. regardless, I do now regret not trying. I have NO fear of Satanist (no Satan). Whatever what I would have done, it wouldn't have stoped that coven and their wicked ways. But I will have to live with it (my indiference, if you want to call it that).

EDIT: Sorry for "spraying" about this (house fire) once again (4th time on ST i think). But I had to defend myself (insecure me, lol). The last time was on the Airplane thread, and there was definitely a "spraying" aspect to it, plus i was OT (way off topic) obviously. Someone rubbed it in my face the next day (p0sted that I was "spraying"). But I had been up/awake for 7 days in a row with zero sleep. an immediate family member suddenly died and I took it kind of hard/couldn't sleep (i live by myself). I found solice (of sorts) by lurking and posting here on ST. Or at least it took my mind away from the tragic events of that past week. I can't recall exactly why i told this story again then (on the Airplane thread/the 3rd time) But i wasn't thinking to clearly by then (that's my excuse anyway). I didn't tell anyone here about the death (well i told two people by email). I tend to keep things like that to myself.


Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 19, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
The Presidential elections of Ronald Reagan and all those named Bush.

Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
Feb 19, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
Having my father die in my arms at age 13 was disturbing. Being in combat as a Marine is still disturbing. Right now I'm adjusting to my buddy being t-boned by a texting driver, killing his 10 year old son.

Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
Feb 20, 2013 - 01:31am PT
well shite, no wonder you're evil!

Trad climber
Heidelberg, Germany
Feb 20, 2013 - 08:45am PT
I use to live on El Nopal(across from the Magnolia Boulders). One morning i was riding my bike, returning from the store and this F-15/16 goes sailing by just clearing the houses and crashes into the side of the hill about a block away.

About ten years later I was living a few miles away just under the flight path for planes returning to Gillespie Field. Planes would fly over about every fifeteen minutes. Got pretty use to it. One morning I heard this incredible roar, the planes at Gillepie are limited to smaller personal/commercial craft. It sounded like a jet liner was making some sort of emergency landing and I new something tragic was about to happen. It was shaking the houses and sounded like thunder.

I lept up and shot out the front door just in time to see another big navy jet come sailing directly over our house...upside down with the cockpit open and no one in it. The roar was deafening(must have had its afterburners on)and the airport was about 4-5 blocks away on the other side of a freeway and I was certain this beast wasn't going to make it(crash into houses).

As i jumped into my car, I heard a huge explosion and was expecting the worse. It turned out that it did make it to the airfield before crashing, but killed and maimed a few guys on the ground.

Rather "disturbing" event...

I saw both of those too from the other side of El Cajon, the second went right over my head. I saw the PSA flight 182 crash in North Park too.

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 20, 2013 - 11:24am PT
This thread is mis-named. It should be Born Under A Bad Sign.

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Feb 20, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
I use to live on El Nopal...
^^^ that was me/one of my earlier posts (forgot that i posted about that).
Both jets were on auto-piolet, the piolets had ejected/bailed some moments before (didn't see them or their canopies/cutes).

The "El Nopal" crash was in the late Spring/early summer of 1979 and occured while I was visiting my parents. Evidently the piolet, before he ejected, programed it to avoid the hundreds of tract homes and go in at this hill right next to us. Extremely close call. It was a real eye opener. Fortunately no one was hurt.

The second one was in the Spring of '86, and like I said, i lived Pepper Dr. in El Cajon, which is right uner the flight path (incoming) for planes landing a Gallispie field. I was very accostomed to having various sized small private planes fly over us (about every 15 minutes) and the occassional Lear jet. But this thing sounded like some Jumbo 747 (way to large for Gillepie Field) coming in, and obviously in BIG trouble and for some reason it had to dith (or crash) in El Cajon. I mean there was this deafening roar and the whole house was shaking off of its hinges.

I ran outside and looked up jus as it was coming over the top of our house. But it wasn't a Jumbo Jet, it was a Navy F16 (or whatever). Like I said, the canopy was open with no one in it. The two pilots had gotten into trouble and bailed out over the middle of El Cajon (over 100,000 population then).

They had zeroed it in on Gelespie field, which was about 1/2 of a mile down the road. There were solid rows of houses, and a middle school where my brother was teaching at, between where I was and there. It looked as if I could almost reach up and touch it, but it was probably about 50 ft to a 75 feet above me (surreal). I new it was trying to make the airport, but I was certain that it wasn't going to make it. Just seconds later I heard this tremendous explosion. I jumped into my car and took off towards the crash. I was expecting the worse, but hoping that it at least missed the school (it went directly over it).

To my surprise it cleared all the houses and crashed into the runway and skidded into these hangers killing a couple guys and maiming others. Very tragic. One piolet landed safely, but his partner got hung up got hung up in some high wires/tower and broke his neck. He died the next day. My cousin was his nurse in the ICU at Sharpe Hospital. She came over the next day and told us about it. He was fully concious and, she, of course, spoke with him (very sad).


I have never looked at it that way. BUT, I have at times felt like I have had the "curse of Cain" put on me, lol. After he killed his brother Abel, he was made to roam the earth, and God put a mark on him that warned everyone who he was and that whomever killed him would have 10 fold the bad sh#t happen to them that happened to Cain (to paraphrase it). Or, like God told Satan (in regards to Job) you can do anything you wish to him, but you can't take his life (YIKES). Or perhaps a mix of the two (sorta) but an individual uniqueness to it.

Just kidding of course (but not entirely, b'cuz i haven't shared even a 1/4 of the crazy things I've experienced).

Social climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Feb 20, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
So, another disturbing thing I've only been second hand witness to, is the phenomena that inspired the billion rising event the other day. One out of three women have or will be raped or severely beaten in their lifetime. That is staggering! almost impossible to comprehend! I known now and have know women who have been raped and some, fewer, that have been severely beaten. But if that is the statistic, I know a lot more of both than I think. And so do you!

That, is truly disturbing!

If one in three women are the victims, what is the rate out of the total population, of the perpetrators? We must all know them as well! That's disturbing in it's own way.

Thank you for this. I spend a lot of time helping women vets who have been assaulted and sometimes their stories just totally break my heart. As a woman who has experienced it personally, I feel I need to be open with my story so that maybe someone can feel comfortable asking for help. It's very difficult sometimes but It's worth it. The Megan's Law website is REALLY disturbing, especially since they can only list the convicted people. Misogyny is so subtlety pervasive in our society. Sometimes I just stand in shock upon hearing some things that come out of peoples mouths, especially when its a woman.

Also, when I see a parent screaming in anger at their kid pisses me the fu.ck off. I have been known to approach these people and tell them exactly my opinion.

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