Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 12, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
I'll start off;
Some recent threads have made me think about something that has been nagging at me for a while.
We have all witnessed the male-female partner melt-downs of various kinds at the crags, but a little while back I witnessed a most horrifying and depressing event. A male-female team was preparing for a photo shoot. He made a number of little jabs at her, really getting under her skin, it was weird. Then, all of a sudden he starts tearing into her, SCREAMING at her until she starts to cry.
Just then the photographer showed up. He has NO idea what was going on and this guy who had been screaming is instantaneously Mr Charming, apologizing for his partner's "moodiness" and pretending he's super concerned about her.
It was clear that this guy was just trying to sabotage her and f*#k with her head,to throw her off before she got on a dangerous route in front of a photographer. Whether to make her look bad, or to concoct a situation where he looks good by coming to her aid, was not clear. Perhaps just into punishing women because he's too timid to confront men?
What father or brother out there doesn't live in fear of something like that (generally not quite this dramatic or public) happening to a woman in his family? Truly a parent's nightmare.
The way it looked was that he was putting her in serious danger. It was clearly a bad situation for her -- if she left the shoot she looked like the "moody partner." He began "apologizing" for her. If she stayed she had to climb a dangerous route in a less than positive mental state.
Just an example, though the worst one, from a series of similar instances. I might not have believed in the credibility of other accounts like this I had heard of, had I not been present for this particularone.
That sounds pretty messed up. It's hard to intervene in other people's stuff, but maybe a comment to the lady like "hey, are you ok to climb after the way he just screamed at you? I sure wouldn't be." It's easy to play armchair quarterback about how to handle it after the fact. I would probably have done nothing.
I'm a father of two daughters in their 20's, and an older brother of two sisters. You're right; having one of my daughters or sisters in such a relationship would be a real nightmare. Fortunately, I've never had to deal with a situation quite like the one you describe. What my wife and I have done, we hope, is instill enough self-confidence and sense of self-worth in our daughters to avoid being attracted to men like that -- or to run, not walk, away if someone turns out to be that type.
I know my parents did that for us. My sisters have been very happily maried for several decades. Neither would fall for bullies -- verbal or physical. I hope we've done the same. So far, so good.
I don't know what I'd do, but I like to think I wouldn't keep my mouth shut. After all, I can't seem to do so on this forum.
It's telling you read into it that one climbs harder than the other, as if you feel that had something to do with it. I think that says more about you than them, IMO.
When I read the thread title, I was going to mention yesterday listening to a lady on her cell phone telling someone to wrap it in a town and go to the emergency room. That was disturbing.
But I've never witnessed any sort of domestic problems. I've been lucky I guess.
It sucks to see people act like monsters or lunatics. Just watching two minutes of Horders by accident is enough to lose any faith in the human race.
Seen two guys shot, a few car crashes with fatalties, and got drawn into more than one domestic violence incident, the worst when I returned home one night to find my college housemate beating and strangling his girlfriend...which turned into me fighting the housemate, a knife drawn, cops called, locks changed and having to take an impromptu "vacation" so he wouldn't make good on the death threats me was making against me.
Then there was that Adult Contemporary radio station festival show I worked...talk about disturbing...10,000 middle aged boomers rockin out to Celine Dion and similar. The trauma lives with me to this day.
This thread just gave me a case of flashbacks you don't need to hear.
Some of them almost as bad as ElCap's Celine Dion event! Scary!
Jay's abusive 'friend' probably would have heard about it from me and for
sure from my wife. The trouble is intervention isn't necessarily the best
thing and determining whether it would be is pretty tricky.
hey there say, jaybro... man oh man, i seen enough of the man-woman type stuff... enough, so, too, that i pray and am trying to teach all the kids that i have in my circle... hoping and praying for good, not only for my grandkids, but for your daughters...
the 'games' such as this man-woman stuff gone wrong,
is best dealt with, if we can reach these young kids, first,
and expose such things, the best we can, so they will recognize
it in others and steer clear...
I was climbing in San Luis Obispo, at Cracked Wall. This was a few years ago. Just doing some of the routes, maybe 1 or 2 other parties leisurely climbing nearby. All of a sudden, a hiker strolls down the trail. This guy looks a little odd, maybe 18 or 19, dressed kinda funky and dirty and sullen looking. Looks kind of confused and almost depressed. Hair in his face and whatnot.
Anyway he notices a top rope, don't think it was mine but a nearby one, unattended. Without looking at us or saying ANYTHING he walks up to it, still looking really confused, and starts bat manning up the rope, hand over hand. The wall is steep, overhanging in most spots to where your feet may be helping you up, but you're not down climbing.
At first I was a little shocked, didn't know if someone nearby maybe knew this kid, or if he knew what he was doing and was playing some kind of joke. He gets about 15 feet up, and i finally ask in a loud confrontational voice "HEY what are you doing?" "is that your rope?"
From his position up the rope, he gets a little freaked by my confrontation and quickly bat mans back down, doesn't say a word, looks around really confused this time, and walks away. It almost looked like he was on drugs.
Early morning at Snowshed Wall in Donner, my brother just finished some 5.7 crack thing, and i began following up. Our group was the first there, my brother's partner was napping in the sun down by the cars, and my girlfriend at the time was making PB&J's for us. Some car with 4 people in it pulled up, geared up in the parking lot, and headed over. I guess while climbing, one of the guys in the group slipped and hit his head on a rock, and wanted to go get it checked out. His very angry, raging, horrifyingly annoying Asian girlfriend was ripping into him;
"ITS YOUR FAULT YOU HIT YOUR HEAD!"
"YOU'RE STUPID!"
"*explicit explicit*"
The guy, still holding the back of his head, saying his head is hurting, is still taking it from this tiny angry screaming Asian chick. I think she even eventually said he deserved it because he wasn't wearing a helmet. (on the approach, really?)
At this time i'm turning around every now and then while climbing, and eventually get up to the anchor to watch them rip into each other at the parking lot, where she is still tearing into him for being such a *explicit explicit*. He's still asking how it's his fault, then he brings up...
"Dave"
Now, from here, Dave hasn't been mentioned. But, from what we were understanding some couple hundred or so feet away on the top of some freezing single pitch climb, "Dave", was now the guy with the head injury's choice of weaponry.
Oh man, the things that girl and "Dave" did must have been something nasty. He cut into her so bad. Mind you, there are two passengers with them. They're both by the back doors of the car, which i believe was a Prius, waiting for SOMETHING besides screaming at each other to happen.
Eventually after a few more explicit's and "Dave's", they all got into the car, and left.
I've seen a lot of disturbing stuff. I guess the key in this thread is "witness to" as regards to others, and thus not directly affected.
I know one thing - If I saw that guy acting that way, and switch off when the photog showed up.... I would be talking to myself, in a rather loud voice, as I am sometimes prone to do... "What the F! Dude is a Doctor Jekyl/Mr. Hyde to say the least. Tells that woman(insert quote, in best mimicked tone) and then acts like he's the savior..." And then I would turn to him and give him dagger eyes - daring him to say otherwise. And then...I would probably beat him down some more.
Passive aggressive? Maybe so.
This sort of behavior on my part is partially why I HAD to leave NYC... I knew it was only going to be a matter of time before me reacting this way to others acting poorly got me punched in the face or worse.
Like the time I saw a man in the face of a very tired-looking lady. This was on Broadway, Upper West Side, and the lady was sitting on a in the medium strip. I thought the guy was some xian proselytizer trying to convince this lady to save her soul before it was too late...
Ummm, not quite.
As I come upon this, I see the man in her face and she giving body language like "Oh my god - stop already."
I say "Miss? Is this man bothering you?"
She looks meekly down and says no.
I continue by and he says "Mind your own f*#king business, bitch."
Well, then...
Long story short, this guy gets in MY face. He is a tall white man with ice blue eyes, pretty nicely dressed, and filled with a rage I've seen before. the sort of rage that tells you he would beat you to death if only there were not a bunch of witnesses around.
I understand then, that he was a pimp, and she was a tired, worn out prostitute who, like a horse worked lame, was too tire to go do the work. He had been "cajoling" her into getting up and moving it when I came along.
He had told me, while in my face, that he was an ex-marine and could kill me any number of ways and...then some other stuff I don't remember.
Unfortunately - I am a Taurus, and though inside I could sort of sense I should STFU, I didn't. I stepped past him into the street(in case I had to run or dodge him), and scream "Who the f*#k do you think you are!? You could kill me in an instant. F*#k YOU, dude! You want me to call the cops right here, right now?
And then I bolt. Not too quickly, but...pretty fast.
...Not the brightest star in the galaxy, I then realize that woman is going to be paying for my mouthiness.
I hope that man gets his payback for the way he obviously treats people like that woman, but likely it won't be in this life.
Oh man, I hate it when people air out their personal issues in public.
About 3 years ago at the planet granite in Sunnyvale, I was top roping with my husband and became the target of this lady who was completely coming off her rocker.
We had been climbing for a few hours and the gym was pretty quiet. You know how you end up looking around at the people around you while you're belaying? Well I had noticed this man and woman couple, probably in their 40s, seemed to be really pissed at each other, but were still climbing together. I didn't stare or anything, was just aware of their strange interactions and didn't think much of it.
When we finished top roping, I was sitting on the step out to the rear bouldering area, watching my husband try a problem. And I noticed that no one else was in the area except this couple and it seemed like something strange was going down. The man was sitting about 25 feet away from the woman, looking like he was going to cry. Once again, I don't think too much of it.
The couple gets up and leaves and as the lady walks by me she stoops down and mutters something and then keeps walking. At first I wasn't sure if I had heard right. I go tell my husband that I think the strange lady just said something to me. And then we go to leave, cause we were on our way out anyway.
Just as we step back into the gym, the lady quickly walks right up to me and starts SCREAMING in my face. All sorts of weird sh*t. Like "how dare you think you can do that to my husband", "you think you can go make EYES at him without me noticing", "who do you think you are, do you think you're special, you next generation-ers think you HAVE IT ALL", "you're the ones causing the bubble crash and the market collapse", "how dare you just take it all away, you can't have it." Like, complete nonsensical things. Total flipping out screaming with terms like Facebook and online and social media and "kids these days" all thrown in. And I'm just standing there staring at her trying to figure out what the f- is going on. My husband starts telling her to back off but this lady is like a gnat, just completely in my face. So I make my way to the front desk, having to scream over the lady, explaining how I didn't know her and could they get her to stop (I guess call the cops if she had kept at it?). Then she screamed "ALL I'm SAYING IS THAT ONE OF US HERE IS A LIAR, AND ITS NOT ME", repeated this a few times, then left.
We thought it was over, then about 5 minutes later, the lady came BACK into the gym and walks straight up to me and says "I've come to apologize. I would really like to apologize. I realized its not you, but everything is because of this f-ing son of a b*tch right here." And then starts SCREAMING at my husband. Same nonsensical things. We go back to the front desk (lady still following us and screaming) and luckily the lady takes off pretty quickly.
The front desk people said they recognized her but hadn't really talked to her. I was a little jumpy at the gym for a while after that. Still avoid making eye contact with anyone. Wow there are some crazy people out there. And it sucks when you end up in their path.
Having a neighbour at our door, obviously in huge pain, with a towel around wrapped around his hand, asking for my mom to come.
Turns out he had just cut off half his thumb with a buzzsaw.
I think I was in first grade then. Pretty vivid memories.
Working graveyards one night my partner and I hear a loud crash about a 1/2 mile away. We go on scene in under a minute. Car had crashed into a telephone pole and a tree at over 100 mph. The car is engulfed in flames from the b pillar (the post right behind the front passengers) back. Driver is unconscious and is burning alive. We are unable to get within 30' of the car because of the heat coming off of it. 5 cops standing around trying to spray fire extinguishers at the car with no luck.
Another picture in my mental notebook of things I have seen that I wish I hadn't. Not to mention the smell.
back when i was eighteen myself and two friends split two big ol' horsecaps of mez three ways. we wound up going to a movie "Illustrated Man". Just before the flick began we were sitting tripping on the ornate faux paux architecture etc., when suddenly this dood about our age is kneeling on the seat in front of us, giggling and laughing while pointing at a guy and gal sitting a few rows down who had been cuddling and kissing. He kept saying "Those are two guys" and would then bust up laughing. It was a weekday and there were very few people in the theatre. The couple he had pointed out was a dude with short hair and a typical gal on a date back then with womens style coat with a big fur collar and her hair was poufed up on top and shoulder length with a big flip/curl on the end.
The kid came back two three times and i didn'thave a clue what he was getting at until suddenly the "chick" stands up and turns around, whipps off the wig and fur thing over his shouders(big burley guy)and yells "I'm gonna kick your ass" and chases the kid up the aisle and evidently out of the theatre.
Pretty trippy...
edit: btw, first and last time i experimented with foriegn chemicals...
Felt sick yesterday, decided to try to lead Illusion Dweller AGAIN... hiked out to it four times, each time had someone JUST starting except for the final time (5 min hike, other things in area, no biggie...)
Really psyched, trying to stay "in the zone," been trying this route a lot and always pump out at the top... cruising the initial 5.9 finger crack, get to a stance, turn around to take in the view and see a woman at the base nursing.
When my oldest dog was a pup, he and another pup gravely wounded a fawn.
The mom was stomping her feet and making a lot of noise, I was scared shitless.
Since my neighbors would have reported a gunshot, I was forced to use a kitchen knife to put the poor baby deer out of its suffering. I cut its neck and carried it across the river, bawling the whole time.
It still haunts me, but if anyone learned of the attack, my dog (now eight years old and well adjusted) would have been put down.
Then there was this time on Donner when my buddy severed an artery in his wrist with the edge of his ski. I've never seen blood shoot that far...
I realize we're talking apples and oranges, but those are the two things that stick with me.
I use to live on El Nopal(across from the Magnolia Boulders). One morning i was riding my bike, returning from the store and this F-15/16 goes sailing by just clearing the houses and crashes into the side of the hill about a block away.
About ten years later I was living a few miles away just under the flight path for planes returning to Gillespie Field. Planes would fly over about every fifeteen minutes. Got pretty use to it. One morning I heard this incredible roar, the planes at Gillepie are limited to smaller personal/commercial craft. It sounded like a jet liner was making some sort of emergency landing and I new something tragic was about to happen. It was shaking the houses and sounded like thunder.
I lept up and shot out the front door just in time to see another big navy jet come sailing directly over our house...upside down with the cockpit open and no one in it. The roar was deafening(must have had its afterburners on)and the airport was about 4-5 blocks away on the other side of a freeway and I was certain this beast wasn't going to make it(crash into houses).
As i jumped into my car, I heard a huge explosion and was expecting the worse. It turned out that it did make it to the airfield before crashing, but killed and maimed a few guys on the ground.
Well, I did put out a burning drunk guy on my commute home one night...don't see that every day. He'd hit a power pole, his truck detonated, and he was burning while standing next to the hood...odd. So I blasted him with my extinguisher. The fire dept. showed up to put out the truck, emt's treated him, cops cuffed him.
I've seen a lot of male-female dramatics while sailing...almost always anchoring or tying to a dock. I'm not a big fan of abuse, physical or verbal. I would have stepped in, stupid as it would have been.
I have already(on another thread)told the story of the time when I was about 20 and one cool Fall evening was returning on foot from a friends house whom lived a few blocks away. As we were turning a corner she caught a wiff of smoke and said, "I smell smoke". I couldn't smell anything, so we just continued down the block.
Suddenly, and directly in front of us, this guy shoots out of the side door to his house. It was as if he was catapaulted out the door in front of a huge explosion of flames and smoke. He ran a few steps to the curb and our side and just as he was about to collapse his whole right hand and arm up to the shoulder drip/slide off into the gutter in a huge puddle of wet flesh. He then looks me squarley in the eyes and says in a pleading and terrified voice, "My baby is in there!"
I have already related the rest of the story, but needless to say...it was a disturbing event!
Oy- I've seen lots of disturbing stuff. Abusive a-holes being the least of them. Neglected animals always bother me more than people. I volunteered for Children of the Night (underage runaways/drug addicted prostitutes) as a peer counselor for a total of like.. two days before I quit because I was having nightmares
I've found two bodies- one of them murdered (stabbed in the chest), one suicide & witnessed two additional fatal highway accidents - one motorcycle into a brick wall and one guy go through his wind-shield from a head-on collision.
Edit to add: @Tami: You do kinda wonder when you see people act that way in public how bad it is in private. Meh.
When i was in my late twenties i was about to go into my gym, had my hand on the door but let this couple pass by on the sidewalk first. They were pushing a baby carriage with a pre-one-year-old in it. As they passed i remembered something i had forgoteen in my car. So rather then go in i turned and followed them around a corner. Evidently they didn't realize that i was behind them because suddenly the guy puts his left hand behind his back and with his thumb shifts this huge ring(college style grad ring)so that the big bulbess part is facing his palm. He then lifts his hand and smartly wacks the baby on the crown of its head and it cried out. He wacked it twice in quick succession, the last one was brought down just as i got to his side and enterviened. At that exact moment a county sheriff/cop springs out from between(or out of)a car. He waved me on and arrested the couple.
What really bothered me, and i can still some 30 years later picture in my mind, is that the baby's head still had that wide/round soft spot or opening where the scull hasn't closed in yet. The poor thing cried bloody murder. What a hideous childhood it must have had. I hope it grew up to be okay. Evidently they had been watching them for some time. I have wondered ever since, why would a mother and father do such a thing to their child.
Back in high school or college, I used to go on long walks around the neighborhood with a friend and just talk about sh#t. We are walking a few blocks from my house, it's dark but by a streetlight we suddenly see a man in a parked car 20-30 feet ahead reach across and WHACK a woman sitting next to him. We hadn't even noticed them up until that. I guess we heard the blow.
I look at my friend, neither she nor I know what to do, but we don't feel comfortable just walking away after seeing that. So we sit down on the lawn right there and continue talking. At least if something happens there is a witness. (This is ages ago, no cell phones or anything.) I'm sure the couple had noticed us by then. We sit there for a long time, eventually I think the man got out of the car, went into a house, came back out and they drove away. We couldn't and probably didn't do any good, but at least we provided a bit of cover if the woman had wanted to leave.
I'm with Jaybro and Tami. Abusive relationships are serious, not just drama. But the problem is that so few people are capable of getting out of them.
I'm starting to get the "Willies" just hearing the similarities of some of the female posters and some of the females spoken of in these threads, yikes!
Hmmm...don't know if I can top Splitter's experiences but I think I have a few in my bag.
How about walking up to what looks like an "animal," possibly a bear? that's been hit on the interstate, almost ending up on my head from slipping on the serous fluid that is running down the roadway, then, after getting close enough to the seemingly boneless, two foot high, mass of headless flesh, seeing the painted toenails of what now appears to be that of a woman, with remnants of her long brunette hair still stuck to the top of the pile. Her lower arm, from the elbow down, with her wedding ring still on her finger, laying just down the road...the rest of the body was never found, including her head. Apparently she jumped off a nearby bridge in front of an oncoming semi, then struck by a full size van.
Vomit, because of the smell, always makes me run, even if I'm right in the middle of doing something important, like starting an IV, drawing blood, intubating (passing a tube into your trachea), etc. If you're in the middle of spewing, and I'm not prepared, I'm going to let you bleed, or suffocate till you're finished, lol!
Sorry, I have many more, but here's another...
Awoken at 0230 we respond to an "unresponsive" female at a private residence. We arrive to find an elderly female on the carpet of her living room, in front of her favorite recliner that she frequently sleeps in. Her husband, in his eighties, informs us that he found her there after waking up to check on her. He stands probably 6'3" at the least, with his t-shirt, pants and suspenders on, his grandson is standing behind and at his side. The patient is still warm without obvious signs of death. We continue our assessment and begin treatment.
It is soon discovered that the patient has, more than likely, been "down" too long but we finish our required protocol before we can legally pronounce the patient dead. At that point it is my job, as the "paramedic in charge" to address family members and inform them of the outcome. After literally, standing in front, and below this strapping grandfather and explaining what we had just done, I watched this grand man fall to his knees, dropping his head into his massive hands, and begin to weep fitfully like a child, his grandson laying over his shoulders sobbing with him. I turned and walked past my partner and firefighters to walk outside into the cold night air, wiping my face myself.
We moved around allot when I was a kid, lived in 18 dif places between K-12 and saw allot of disturbing things.
When i was 13 we lived in Upland, Ca for about 4-5 months. Lived next to this family that had close to a dozen kids. She must have had one after another cuz the oldest one, whom i attempted to befriend, was only 14-15. One day he invited me into his house for the first time, which was very unusual because he would customarily just say one or two sentences and then retreat. They were all very guarded and my younger brother said that he had experiened their same reluctance to speak, etc. whenever he attempted. We were upstairs in the boys bedroom. He had a bunch of little brothers and sisters. They all were very subdued and never wandered far from there house. Anyway, he starts telling me how his father will be home soon and he will randomly pick one kid and then proceed to beat and torture him/her. It was terrifying to here the things that he would do to them. They never new who was going to be chosen each evening when he returned from work.
This kid poured out his whole story to me.I was shocked. Suddenly he became very afraid, visibly shaking and trembling, and told me i had to leave because his father had just returned home. I'll never forget the fear in the eyes of those kids, i kid you not when i say that they were visibly shaken, trembling as they passed me going up to their respective bedrooms as i went down the stairs. The fear in their eyes, like a trapped animal.
I can also still picture the lear on their fathers face, a look of wicked glee as he passed me at the bottom of the stairs. He had a piece of cut off hose with a wooden dowel stuck in one end that he seemed to be carressing in anticipation as he glared up the stairwell where the children huddled and waited...
My father returned from work shortly after. We had heard a commotion and crying spilling over the alleyway to our house each night, but figurred it was one of the many kids who had gotten out of line or whatever. But that afternoon I remember approaching him as he sat at his usual spot on the porch, unwinding after a hard days work. I told him what the kid told me. My father didn't say a thing, but it was obvious that he was pissed. He stood up and took off his thick, black belt and wrapped the end once or twice around his fist.
He then marched over and into their house and all hell broke loose. He beat the crap out of the guy and then made him bend over and he whipped his ass with the belt buckle in front of all the kids. Then he drug the guy outside and into our car and took him down to the police station and told them the whole story. They arrested the guy and he was in jail a few days, etc.! There was follow up by authorities.
We left for SLC, Utah a few months later. The oldest kid, the one I attempted to befriend, came out and told me to tell my father how thankful they were for what he did that afternoon. He said that things had changed dramatically, and that they had experienced peace for the first time in their young lives.
"who do you think you are, do you think you're special, you next generation-ers think you HAVE IT ALL", "you're the ones causing the bubble crash and the market collapse", "how dare you just take it all away, you can't have it." Like, complete nonsensical things. Total flipping out screaming with terms like Facebook and online and social media and "kids these days" all thrown in
About two years ago I woke up at 3:50am and got a very faint but but certain whiff of smoke. i new something was burning. So I jumped up and went outside and stood on my apartment balcony...crickets! No sign or smell of smoke. A slight breeze drifted down the canyon from the east and I figured it was another grass fire inn the east county. I had a sudden urge to make a quik check of my neighbors condos, but hesitated to do so. I was in my boxer shorts, it was cold and there was zero signs or smell of anymore smoke. So i went back to bed and sleep.
BOOM, BOOM, BOOM!! At exactly 4:30am I was jolted out of bed by, what I thought, was someone busting down my door. I jumped up yelling wait a minute I'll unlock it and realized(after i went outside)that it was the fire department busting down the door of my neighbors apartment which was diredtly aross from mine on the first floor/level. Smoke was pouring out the door and bedroom window, and they already had him out and were pumping on his chest and had a portable generator feeding him air.
Needless to say...it was a very disturbing sight.
The whole scenario kept running through my mine. It had been 40 minutes since i had gotten that first little whiff of smoke. Why didn't i stay up and had been a little more thorough? Over and over I ran it through my mind. They worked on him for over an hour, non stop. He was layed out on his back, naked on the cold hard concrete. They gave it everything they had.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I finally went back inside, my God what had i done?
I was very sick. I spoke with the next door neighbor. All I can recall him saying is "His daughter is going to take it very hard." She use to come over and visit him. It just about drove me crazy. I called everyone I new(mostly family)and told them what had happened, what i had done, or more appropriatly...what I hadn't done. Became very depressed. Especially after hearing that they had brought him to once, thought they had gotten him back but he went back into cardiac arrest. Evidently that is why they gave it such an effort.
I must have run the whole scenario through my mind acouple hundred times over the next day or two. The dude was the same age as me, mid to late fifties. I had only spoke with him a few times, but saw him almost everyday. I was haunted by how it could have turned out if I had gone down stairs and walked around the condos once or twice. If I had gotten another whiff of smoke, they would have had plenty of time to rescue him.
This deep, heavy darkness settled in my chest, engulfed my usual upbeat and cheerful self. I felt pretty low and started having dark thoughts about myself. I had gone there before, long ago, but fortunately escaped the reaper and moved on.
I hesitate to say this. But it is the truth. I decided to say one prayer, a request really, and then open the bible and see if it would give me an answer. I made it simple, something like "What do You think? Cuz i was ready to give up. So i closed my eyes, opened it up somewhere towards the middle and stuck my finger on the page. here is what it/the verse said directly above my finger nail:
"To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven:
A time to be born and a time to die; a time to plant and a time to..." Ecclesiastes 3:1-2
That's as far as I read. A certain relief came over me, and I clung to it. Kept repeating the verse over and over. I resigned myself to the fact that his life was ultimately in Someone else's hands. I also heard neighbors say, plus later read, that he had attempted suicide previously, and had stated that he would do so again and it was confirmed that he had disabled his fire alarms, jerry rigged the stove, etc.! Not that excuses anything, particularly my inaction. And i was convinced that it was just another Santa Anna wind fueled grass fire, of which we have had many, and not in the immediate vicinity.
It helps to share it here, I'm obviously not proud of the whole incident, frankly somewhat ashamed although it was an honest mistake. But i shared it because the image of him lying on that cold concrete and the various firemen pumping on his chest was indeed a disturbing event and i was indeed witness to it.
edit: i must admit, my stories are pretty lame. i'm gonna delete them anyway. got several of them that i wud prefer not to even think about, so i won't.
Relationships with strong personalities always have some drama. Nobody has the power to get a rise out of you like your significant other. If you haven't seen or dealt with this, you're probably either single or boring.
+1 to Werner's sentiment.
I have no idea how this got turned into a wife beating thread.
splitter, Enjoyed all your stories and well written as well. Thanks and please don't delete
This is hardly a domestic violence thread except for a tangent based on some folks being "disturbed" by relationship stuff they saw. Perhaps this bothers a few people here because we all have some darkness in us or know people who have made mistakes. It's still important for people to make greater awareness of this issue because there are women who truly suffer in it and feel powerless to leave
Splitter, your stories aren't lame, man. What your dad did that day is what my dad would have done. He had a pretty long fuse-he was a big, peaceful man, but child abuse is one thing that he would not tolerate. I wonder how many here would stand up, wrap a belt around their fist and calmly walk into that house? What would I do? I hope I never have to find out.
More then I can remember at this point in my life. But one kind of recent event was when E and I were driving home from Owens River Gorge and were swarmed by about 20 Vaco's (outlaw motorcycle gangs). The next 50 miles were indelibly etched on my memory. One salient quote from that event was E telling me "Nay, don't stop this car"
Back in the early 90's me and a buddy were walking thru his housing-tract in moreno valley when we noticed flames thru the front living room window of this house we were walking by and we see a man running back in-forth from the garage(door was open)grabbing boxes etc. so we run up thinking he's trying to get his crap out before the whole thing goes up, just as we get to the top of the driveway the man waves a gun at us and said "get the fuk out of here"..so we did just that and ran accros the street to hide behind the parked cars on the street. several mins later people are starting to come out of there homes to see what is going on just as the cops show up (the fire rigs staged back at the top of the st.) Then the same guy comes out waiving his gun at the cops and the LEO's didnt hesitate and shot him dead 20 ft from me and my buddy and other on-lookers....come to find out he had his wife and kids in the house and was attempting to kill the whole lot of them.....the wife and kids made it out unharmed.
Lot of Jr. High fights I had to break up, students getting pregnant- did not see the cause but it was no fun watching the girls deal with their brand new world, saw a couple of bodies flown out of the Mts- one I have no recollection of whatsoever but my partner tells me we watched it fly by.
Nowadays I'm pretty much done with disturbing events- suits me fine to not have deal with them
For someone who isn't a first responder type, or search & rescue, I think I've found more than my share of dead people.
Driving the Ortega Highway from the beach one night, we pulled over to let a truck pass us. He seemed to be in a hurry, and he waved ( five fingers ) as he drove by.
Ten minutes later, we come across his truck sitting sideways in the road. I checked the cab, and he wasn't in it. I found him about thirty feet away, in the middle of the Ortega Highway. It was too late.
This guy is laying on Old Highway 38 ( a hiking/biking trail near Angelus Oaks ). He had been there for about a week, but he looked like he just laid down because he was frozen solid.
He had been driving down ( new ) Hwy 38, from Big Bear, with his mother, in a heavy snowstorm, when his truck went down one of the steep ravines. They both survived initially. The son left his mom in the truck, and apparently went off looking for help. He ended up right here, about two miles from Angelus Oaks.
Then there was this person, who had apparently been there for a while. This is right behind my house, about 1/4 mile up the trail. I run my dogs out here several times a week.
The dogs had been paying special attention to one particular spot for quite some time. Finally, the local scavengers had dug it up, and ripped away the black plastic the person was wrapped in. Then it became obvious what it was.
I haven't heard about anyone being arrested for this one.
Working at a Foster Family agency both as a therapist and monitoring the Foster families. One day an older child asked me when he would get adopted, what was I to say? Some of the Foster parents were losers, I could tell they were more interested in collecting the gov. money for each child.
Worked in community mental health, our population were kids just released from a psychiatric hospitalization. Early on, it became apparent most of the kids had been abused, sadly they just got handed back to their dysfunctional homes.
Worked with numerous families who had open cases with Child Protective Service. I would witness abuse, then call the social worker only to be totally blown off, and people wonder why kids end up dead when they are supposedly being monitored by CPS, sick system.
Watching Chris Linder get screamed at by his dad at Willimason for failing on a climb. The dad went on to scream at the mom too. Both Chris and the mom in tears and the dad fuming. I'm told that thats ok though. If the dad wasnt agro i may have stepped in. Looks like Chris did ok in the end but I will never forget that explosion.
Seen lots of death and mayhem at work being a firefighter/paramedic in Los Angeles through the 80's until the present, 7-10 more years and I am outa there.
Yep, it turns into a game of trying to one up the next story. All are sad and traumatic for someone. I used to think it didnt have any affect on me, the stuff I saw at work, but slowly over time it builds up. Best to have someone to talk to and a healthy diversion from work, like climbing :)
I admire, but don't envy you folks in SAR, fire and police depts., paramedics, etc.
I helped in a body recovery following an 800 ft fall at Tahquitz once, and the experience affected me profoundly. It gave me a glimpse into the world of ptsd, no big deal, but enough that I have a deep compassion for those who deal with that on a large scale.
Silver,
I can't even imagine how horrified you must have been. I recently saw a dog get hit on hwy 395 in Carson. I was in the left turn lane and the dog was coming toward me from the other side. I watched in horror as three cars slammed on their brakes and stopped, but the fourth car never saw her and crushed her right at the center divider about 20 feet in front of me. The car just rolled right over her and drove off. I got out and scooped her up and drove her to the emergency vet about a quarter mile away. She didn't make it...obviously.
I was covered in blood and other bodily fluids and in shock for quite some time. When I got home and took off the bloody clothes I just hugged my two dogs for hours.
On another note, when you mentioned getting out of the street as fast as possible, doesn't it just blow your mind how so many people take their sweet as time crossing the street? They always assume the cars will stop. Well, guess what? If they don't stop (maybe their texting or something), then you're DEAD!
I always make sure the cars are stopping before even stepping out into the street...
Speaking of disturbing sounds, one night in josh I was awoken by a loud cracking noise. Turned out a drunken partyer had fallen out of the space station and grounded. Not many feet from where I was sleeping under the stars. The sound I heard was his pelvis cracking .
This was a nasty pelvis job near the summit of Mt Stuart in the Cascades.
But I include it 'cause it was a happy ending, not that he didn't try his
darndest otherwise. He (some hot-sh*t NOLS guy - an oxymoron?) and his wife were walking
along some ledge with the rope looped over their shoulders when he tripped on a rock
and went over the edge! Somehow his wife managed to fly her way
into a chimney wherein she further managed to become a human chockstone and
stop the two of them! Hoh, man! She was in amazingly good shape - nothing
major broken!
Watching Chris Linder get screamed at by his dad at Willimason for failing on a climb. The dad went on to scream at the mom too. Both Chris and the mom in tears and the dad fuming. I'm told that thats ok though. If the dad wasnt agro i may have stepped in. Looks like Chris did ok in the end but I will never forget that explosion.
Mr Linder arrived at a climb I had just finished and proceeded to tell me all my mistakes in protecting the pitch. Then he started having these "private" conversations with others in his group about broken backs, etc. I'd been climbing ~25 yrs, didn't really feel I had made any mistakes with the pitch beyond personal preferences. He was obviously just humping my leg.
I started having a "private" conversation of my own with my partner - mostly about how we needed to immedately leave the area. As I was walking away, Linder Jr spouts out from the top of his climb about how if I had something to say, I should say it. I turned around, looked right at him and said "I think you should mind your own business, kid". He FLIPPED. He started hopping up and down like a 3 year old and moved toward me. Sr. stopped him. Total fukking tantrum.
So do you have an idea NOW why some of us are posting about male/female relationships that are violent ???
You know Tami, I see quite a gulf between the OP's story and anything that involves anything close to what I would call "violent".
I see your points and generally agree with them, but I also see the realities and difficulties of putting up with someone's childhood dysfunctions from within the context of an intimate relationship. An outsider has no clue, and no basis for judgement.
I can only ask - a little crying and screaming - I mean, really? I can't imagine a person foreign to such blow-ups has ever been in a relationship lasting more than a few months. I'd say similar blow-ups are 100% common among everyone I know.
I hope they grow from the experience and eventually learn to work through their crap in a more mature and productive way - for sure. It's a process, though - a longer and more difficult one for some than others...
Who said anything about "an intimate relationship," JLP? (John, is it?)
To paraphrase your own words from yesterday
It's telling you read into it ........ I think that says more about you than them, IMO.
Do you assume all climbers are in "intimate relationships" with the people with whom they climb? Snap judgements like that are disturbing in themselves.
Edit for comment below; so anyone that can make another person cry is proven to be in an intimate relationship with that person? That's your stance?
Some recent threads have made me think about something that has been nagging at me for a while.
We have all witnessed the male-female partner melt-downs of various kinds at the crags, but a little while back I witnessed a most horrifying and depressing event. A male-female team was preparing for a photo shoot. She was clearly the stronger climber, but the guy was on edge about something. He was made a number of little jabs at her, really getting under her skin, it was weird. Then, all of a sudden he starts tearing into her, SCREAMING at her until she starts to cry.
Just then the photographer showed up. He has NO idea what was going on and this guy who had been screaming is instantaneously Mr Charming, apologizing for his partner's "moodiness" and pretending he's super concerned about her.
It was clear that this guy was just trying to sabotage her and f*#k with her head,to throw her off before she got on a dangerous route in front of a photographer. Whether to make her look bad, or to concoct a situation where he looks good by coming to her aid, was not clear. Perhaps just into punishing women because he's too timid to confront men?
What father or brother out there doesn't live in fear of something like that (generally not quite this dramatic or public) happening to a woman in his family? Truly a parent's nightmare.
The way it looked was that he was putting her in serious danger. It was clearly a bad situation for her -- if she left the shoot she looked like the "moody partner." He began "apologizing" for her. If she stayed she had to climb a dangerous route in a less than positive mental state.
Just an example, though the worst one, from a series of similar instances. I might not have believed in the credibility of other accounts like this I had heard of, had I not been present particularly for this one.
What would you do?
Probably tell the dude to chill then console the girl with my penis and suave personality.
The story of Michael Ferrara over in Aspen who witnessed quite a few disturbing events in his time is pretty disturbing itself. Part of the story is here:
When I read this post, my first reaction was "Sure glad I've never experienced anything 'disturbing' enough to add to this thread. On reflection, I realized my error. In fact, the event profoundly and permanently affected my view of life.
I lived in India with my parents between 1955-57, ages 4 - 6. We passed through Calcutta's (now spelled Kolkata) infamous Howrah Railway station several times. Beggars lined the passage ways through which pedestrians had to pass. These throngs of pathetic, pleading paupers included many maimed children (nails through tongues, broken limbs contourted into horrifying positions, etc.).
My little mind realized (without being told by adults) that these children had been deliberately mutilated by their parents to make them more abject, pitiful objects to increase their value as beggars. First realization: human are horrible to each other; the world is a miserable place. By the next leap of logic I wondered if my own secure world might be in jeopardy of someday experiencing a turn of fate suffered by these children. The logic made me suspicious of the transientness of all human happiness, contentment, complacency and security in this lifetime. I was no longer a child. Upon return the U.S. I had a very hard time relating to the smug, completely confident and materially privileged lot of my American peers.
I saw a guy beating the sh#t out of his girlfriend. Full on punched her in the face and stomach repteatedly, and when she fell to the ground, he began kicking her while she was down.
I intervened and stopped it as quickly as I could get there, but the girl was angry at me for hurting her boyfriend, called me all kind of nasty names.
When the police showed up, she contradicted all the eye-witnesses and said her boyfriend hadn't hurt her (in spite of a major black eye, smashed lip and swelling/bleeding nose.
To the girl, I was the bad guy for intervening, and she told me more than once I should just mind my own f-ing business. She left the scene with her creepy boyfriend.
I don't know if I was more disturbed by her boyfriend's violence towards her, or by her willingness to take his beatings and stay with him.
I think it's often like what kpil and twp mention. All too often. That's why I said disturbing instead of gruesome or gory.
I think we've all seen the kinds of things I'm talking about. I think anyone in any culture who has made it to say age twenty, has seen more of these disturbing things than they want to remember. How we deal with these things and what we learn from our own actions is what I'm after here.
I've got stacks more examples from my own life. I'll get to some if this thread continues.
Anything 'disturbing' to anyone is fair game here, but for myself I'm more concerned with preventable behavior, or predatory actions by sociopaths, or ways people get ahead at other's expense than I am with how gross guys look after getting run over by steam rollers or dropped into pug mills, if you get my drift.
I think out of thread conversations are a little out of bounds, but whatever - you say you know the people - why not just post that to this thread?
However, my comment is just the same. You picked out climbing ability as somehow relevant to the conflict. My experience says it's superficial. A typical climber response is to dwell there and never get to the heart of the matter - parents, childhood, fears, etc.
Knowing roughly your age from other threads, you've been with this guy as a fairly mature adult. The spit and fire fade with age.
I'm certain you've seen at least as many climbing relationships as anyone else here - I know you've seen your share of drama that isn't abusive nor violent - just noisy and unproductive - damaging to the relationship at worst if that's the only way they can communicate.
Well put Jim. Though too many people in that position just don't see that option, even if it seems obvious to us on the outside. People often grow up into the reality they are presented.
Take the guy who grew up in Wyoming, getting slapped around by his dad. He headed south to the big city to escape when he grew up. Now the landscape, is different, but now he takes out his internalized agressions on his own women, like a real man. His utter lack of reading comprehension doesn't seem to bother him at all. It's just the way it is, in his world.
I wish I knew the answer to your question, it happens so often.
Not all can be "rehabilitated." True psychopaths, BPDs and various others often have no interest or motivation to change. I agree though that we need to do what we can. And it's not always east to tell what that is. Though it's generally more than gets done...
During the invasion of Panama, we were taking heavy arms fire outside of a block of houses in a suburban area. We called in air support,expecting to get a couple cobras (Attack Helicoptors). The Air Force lit the whole area up with a AC-130 gunship. Walking through that place and seeing what was left of the people who lived there was a nightmare.
We live immune to the suffering of others. We don't see it, we minimize it when we do see it. Even the suffering of those close to us. Verbal abuse, emotional abuse right here on the Taco daily btw. Belittle Blame and Berate. Violence as a public health issue has it's seed in the family. Parent to child transmission of slaps, kicks,shoving and pushing, neglect,sarcasm,and the three B's. Next thing you know it's passed through the generations, all the while being excused or accepted as a form of intimacy. Children learn to define themselves with defensiveness, bravado and risk in the face of constant humiliation. Anger becomes more self protective than kindness. As adults it feels normal and part of the self and the original family, so to change it means to emotionally leave mom and dad and the first bonds. People hide from themselves with the excuse of irresponsibility and unaccountability. Not my problem if you hurt from what I do.
Good post, Jaybro. Outing the perp is the best thing. People like that depend on secrecy. They think somehow their behavior is not evident.
What's up with the bashing of the Linder's, no families perfect, and airing that crap on the web is pathetic.
Indeed. Mentioning their names for events which happened well over 10 years ago seems a bit much.
In Squamish several years ago I shared beers with Chris when he was in his early 20's.
Super mellow and friendly dude who was always smiling; seemed devoid of any ego whatsoever.
I've been fortunate in life to not have had to bear witness to many disturbing events. Thats not to say my life is perfect, I lived through domestic struggles between my own parents (thankfully its long over). My father was a very angry man, he took it out on my mother, mostly in the form of verbal abuse. Sadly she was the one earning all the money, etc but she is a strong woman and divorced him and raised 3 kids on her own. We were barely above the poverty line for many years.
I don't take any of it for granted, I'm fortunate that my mothers family (which is HUGE) has no history of major diseases and very few close family members have died.
I have seen some bad car crashes resulting in death, had a few friends pass from tragic accidents. Just last year I watched one of my best friends lose his mother to brain cancer. It was heartbreaking to watch her fade away over the years but her celebration of life was just that, a celebration of a happy life well lived should we all be so fortunate.
As a man myself, I've made it a point to make damn sure I'm never the type of father (or someday husband) that my father was. I can be as moody and frustrated as anyone but I try to keep it in check and not take it out on anyone. I think healthy hobbies like climbing/skiing etc are worthwhile for the healthy state of mind they breed.
Not everyone on this planet is as fortunate as we are and its important to volunteer for aid programs or big brother programs or just to be an ear for people in your own life. I am currently attempting to join a few global initiatives when im done school to do some foreign aid in third-world countries. I expect to be shocked by what I know already exists out there, but I'm glad to be in a position to give back.
I often thought about getting into paramedics or SAR but I'm not sure I could handle it. Those of you who have to deal with such situations have my utmost respect. May you never have to suffer PTSD from the things you see
btw...we go to the crags to focus on the routes and enjoy the outdoors...not listen to families fight and bicker like it's soccer practice at the local middle school.
Your point is taken, but it must have been quite "disturbing" indeed for you to bring it up 15+ years later.
Thank God nobody is rehashing any of my old knott-so shining stuff, LOL
had never thought of that john wayne scene as one where he was intervening in a domestic dispute, but i appreciate you bringing out the homoerotic subtext.
one of the messed up deals with real life domestics is that the rescuee is likely to just turn around and stab the rescuer with a fork.
and while i understand the impulse behind the op for the thread, if it continues rehashing bad public behavior from the eighties and nineties, we're going to depopulate this site awfully quick.
although, i guess that might be one argument in its favor
The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. … Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. - MLK
Then again, there's something to be said for a Duke-style righteous intervention. Unfortunately life is rarely as tidy as a screenplay.
Last summer, on a quiet Sunday afternoon, my whole family watched a drug-crazed teen guy smash in the neighbors door, go upstairs and attach another teen. Fortunately, the aggressor had no fighting skills and he quickly retreated to the front lawn, where the screaming and cussing began. His druggied buddy was there to help him cuss at the other people while my wife called the cops.
The interesting thing to me was the amazing state of agitation and aggression these guys were displaying. Being an old student of the martial arts, one of the most fearful opponents is one high on stimulant drugs. You can typically stop a sober person with one or two good strikes, a drunk can be stopped easily with one strike, but a person high on stimulants must be physically hurt to be stopped.
The trial is March 26 and I have been called to testify. Sheet.
"Public displays beget more public displays!" That's pretty much my feeling on the subject. He reaps what he sows. Sr. has pissed off and alienated a lot of climbers over the years.
I find the turn of this thread interesting. The whole male hero strong man out to save the weak vulnerable woman thing is just as weird to me as the abusive male stories. I don't see the behavior as being all that different other than the acceptable boundaries. In both cases, you have someone who can't connect in an open and vulnerable way, on the same level as their partner.
one of the messed up deals with real life domestics is that the rescuee is likely to just turn around and stab the rescuer with a fork.
Was living in a European guest house in the Tenderloin of SF in the early 80's when a woman was screaming bloody murder and yelling "Police! Police!" repeatedly. One of the residents ran out to help and was immediately stabbed in the heart by her pimp, and died instantly. When the police arrived moments later the woman insisted that the guy attacked her "man" for no reason and that he was defending himself....
^ Part of the reason these victims of relationship will defend their abuser in public is the instinctual fear of what the retaliation for their trouble-making will be. There's no easy answer in this one.
It is a shame that we humans can be so damned messed up. Not sure why this is.
I recall seeing Tom, Else, & Chris Lindner many times out at Woodson during the 80's. Perhaps things changed later on, but they were always very well composed family unit and a pleasure to be around. I consider these negitive encounters/postings here as the rare occasions rather then the norm!
JLP- I'm 52 and speak from the experience of having been a wife in an abusive situation in my thirties. While I'll take 50% of the blame for the crap that happened, it sure is interesting to me that now in a functional marriage there is NONE of that.
Sorry to hear that.
I have to say though, my bad relationships were all stepping stones to the better ones. I was not ready for the relationship I have now 10 years before it happened. I don't even think there would have been a connection.
The "take 50% of the blame" part of your comment is the key to moving forward, IMO. For both.
Hmm, I thought I knew who that guy was in my first post, but maybe it was you, JLP? on a stepping stone to a better relationship? Or perhaps, an aspiring protoge' of your's?
Anyway, thanks for sharing your view from the 'other side', good to get the yin along with the yang!
In regards to sociopaths, I have some personal experience, startiing rather young & more recently in the pre-med & psych field and postgrad working in locked and out patient psych. Although you won't or will rarely find sociopaths seeking treatment in that...you sometimes do see their victims
From the ages of 9-13 i lived next door to this kid who was about a year or two older than myself. We had both developed an interest in archery at an early age, and by the time we met were both fairly good at it. One day, while were were at the beach(his grandmas place)we were out with our bows and arrows seeing how close we could zero in on various targets(trashcans, fire rings, cans, etc.)by shooting straight up into the sky as far as the power of the bow could traject the arrow and having it come down on the target.
We had done this allot, and the closer the object, the easier it would be. For instance we could very easily pull the arrow/bow all the way back and have the arrow shoot up almost out of sight and then return and stick into the ground a few feet in front of us over and over again and be able to reach out and pluck the arrow out of the ground without moving our feet. It became more difficult the further away and the smaller the target. Just one of our archery pastimes when we were out looking for targets(telephone poles, boxes, etc.).
So this one day we are at the beach, with no one else around. And we were doing just that, shooting the arrows up and seeing who could nail or get closest to the target(inside a trashcan down the beach). I went first and shot all my arrows, each one narrowing in on the subject tell I hit it. Then Steve went. I had laid myself down almost directly in front of him and was gazing out towards the ocean, but had him in my peripheral vision. As he pulled back and drew on the last arrow, out of the corner of my eye I caught a very chilling thing. The expression on his face suddenly changed, and he tilted his aim to almost directly over head and shot. My first thought was, "No he couldn't have." but I new what I saw and didn't have to calculate where the arrow would fall, so I rolled over one complete barrel roll. The arrow stuck exactly where I was laying. Our arrows had broadheads on them, hunting-tips. I had considered him a friend up until that point. I remember giving him a look of disbelief, a look of "How could you..." With a smurk, he just simply shrugged his shoulders and went and fetched his arrows.
I was about 10-11 by then, and us being neighbors our mothers were always pairing us up to go somewhere or do something, but I was always very wary of him thereafter. Although I had had my suspicions, caught glimpses of a troubled youth before that morning, he had crossed the line and he new that I new something was drastically wrong in his life and I carefully watched him, evaluated him and his family from then on. He, surprisingly, opened up and showed me the real him and his troubled relationship between him, his father and his mother.
edt: If you desire to have a good look into the socio-pathic mind set, watch: "The Iceman: Confessions of a Mafia Hitman" and HBO's "The Iceman Interviews"...chilling!!
Splitter, you have a vast cornucopia of stories and insights. you threatened to delete a while back, please don't! The stuff you share with us is amazing and valuable. Thank you! I mean this sincerely!
Some stuff that has happened that I haven't necessarily been privy to personally, but has stuck with me.
When I was in grade 12, one of the guys I knew shot and killed himself accidentally in front of his girlfriend. We were in first period, and they were calling his closest friends out of the class to tell them personally. Everyone else sat and waited until we were actually told what was going on.
One of my best friends has an older brother who's a pilot for Air Canada. It was about four years back I think. He was just outside his house when one of his neighbors came by and asked for a drink. He obliged, and for his troubles, was stabbed in the throat. Man is a beast though, and bit one of the guys fingers off, then ran up the street to get help. He is still flying.
Scary part about that one, is the guy who stabbed him was a school teacher. http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/01/25/12610601.html
On a slightly more disturbing note, my wife made me watch Twilight with her. I compromised by getting her to watch Shaun of the Dead with me, so it worked out.
Thanks, Jaybro! I won't delete. Sometimes things are difficult to put into words and when i look back at an attempt, it seems rather...
Steve had few if any friends. He was very smart, good looking(used both to his advantage)and had a way of minipulating people that was uncanny. I remember once we were riding home from an afternoon movie or somewhere with his next conquest/victim, a very pretty young girl from my elementary school. Her mother had offered us a ride out side the theatre. I remember her commenting on how wonderful a young man Steve was and me thinking "If she only new what he was really like. What he had planned for her daughter"! I made the mistake of asking the girl what her sisters name was. I thought her mom was her older sister because I had two older sister's and her mom was young and about their age. Her mother took it as a compliment and said so. Steve added/used it to his advantage whenever the opportunity presented itself after that.
One of my best friends lived a mile or so from me. I have clear recollections of one of his neighbors(another 12-13 yr old girl)older brothers taunting me and telling me they didn't want me in their neighborhood because my "friend" had gotten their young sister pregnant. I didn't even know he new her, and I certainly didn't consider him a friend nor lead him to her or whatever.
The kid had evil(or whatever you would characterize it)on his mind 24/7. One saturday afternoon we were taken to the municiple pool for the afternoon. Rather then wait for our ride home, he talked me into walking back home. He made a detour by a pet shop and while I waited out side he stole two Japanese fighting fish which he paired up to watch them with glee tear each other apart.
He initially told me he wanted to be a big game hunter. I first encountered him in a canyon by our homes and he said he was scouting for a falcon nest. Wanted to hunt and trap animals in Africa. He initially enthralled me with his knowledge of animals and big game etc.! He had various traps(cage type)set in different locations, primarily by Balboa Park and the zoo. Never saw anything he had trapped. I don't believe he kept it long because at some point in time, after he had confronted me in regards to letting a bird he had trapped go free, that he confessed his real purpose/reason for trapping, which was torture.
I never witnessed this, but i never doubted what he told me. Evidently he wanted to be sure of this because shortly after he lectured me on letting the bird go he told me where I could find a neighbors cat that he had hung over their backyard fence. He insisted on showing me, kept saying "You don't believe me do you?" I fully believed him, this was after the archery incident, but obliged him anyway by following him over to the fence and the poor cat.
He use to do hideous things with the animals. Told me what he had planned for the bird that day and left me alone with it temporarily. It was a dove, and I clearly remember him telling me how he loved to scratch their eyes with a needle(what he had left to get). I let it go and went home. Evidently the cat was what had resulted, his way of dealing with my act of kindness/betrayal or however he viewed it.
There was this old abandoned house where he kept all kinds of stuff that he had stolen hidden underneath it. Stuff he had either used or planned to use in his rapidly multiplying crimes. His mother use to make candles for Christmas, etc. and had Steve and his younger sister sell them door to door. He used that as a means to find out who was home and who wasn't etc. and then gained access to varios backyards and homes afterwards via the bordering canyons. I remember him showing me a speargun he already had, or planned to shortly use it on some neighborhood dog.
One morning we had made plans to go down to the Balboa Park archery range. We were shooting at the targets, friendly competition between just me and him. No one else was there. After about 45 mins. and out of the blue, this man arrives and without a word to either of us, joins in on our little contest. We won the first two short rounds and the guy, who was directly to my left, was getting very peturbed, made some very crude remarks. Never aknowledged or made eye contact with us though. The third round he won. Perhaps we senced it was the best thing to do, or I followed Steve's lead and let the guy win...I don't really remember. He made a few very sarcastic and belitteling remarks as to the effect how much better he was, how lousy we were, etc. and left. Extremely narcistic to say the least.
Steve and I continued on in silence. It definately had abreviated our otherwise usual morning of doing something we both enjoyed. I just figured it was some jerk with a huge chip on his shoulder and left it at that. Then, about a half hour after the man had left, a rather subdued and and unusually sombre Steve said "That was my dad!"
I was completely shocked. That was all that was said, and like I just mentioned, Steve had been uncharacteristically silent after the man had left, but I would never guessed who the man was. Such a contrast to my own father, to what i had come to expect a father to act and be like. And i new it had a very deep and emotional effect on Steve.
He had never spoke of his father up to that point. I didn't know he even had a father period, let alone one in the vicinity. Evidently Steve wanted me to be aware of this relationship, because shortly after he invited me to his 13th birthday party. He told me to invite my friends. It was to be at a place where they had a backyard pool, a local business. About five or six of my friends showed up. I new Steve didn't have any except one mutual friend, and although all my friends new him since we went to the same elementary school, he was somewhat of an anathema.
Anyway, he told me his dad would be there, made a point of this. i recall his father showing up after we had all been in the swimming pool for awhile. He marched in and sat down at a table(round table with umbrella)with his back to us/Steve. Stayed there talking to the host of the party with his back to us and never once aknowledging Steve. We continued to swim/play in the pool. It was very obvious Steve was effected, every once in a while he would stop and gaze over longingly at his fathers back. Just as they brought the cake out, and called us all out of the pool, his father got up and left. Not once did he make eye contact with his son, kept his back to him and us the whole time(45min-hour). Never said happy birthday, shook his hand or gave him a hug.
EDIT: So before we left the area(summer '62)Steve shows me this big stash of arrows and other stuff he had stolen from an archery store a few blocks away. It was reported in the paper and cops were going door to door. The mutual friend I spoke of spoke with my father about Steve and my dad called the cops and had him arrested. About six months later I was at the local baseball field and was encountered by Steve. Thought for sure he was going to kick my butt. He actually told me to thank my father for whet he did/turn him in. He said that he had allot of problems/issues and was finally getting help! He had been let go for the weekend from some youth facility. I never saw or heard of him again.
edit: I remember him teaching this parrot or macah or whatever that they had at one pet shop to say F. U.! He brought me into the shop to show me. he didn't do it because he thought it was funny, he did it because he new it would, in a somewhat abstract way, destroy the bird. They wouldn't be able to sell it, and they wouldn't be able to keep it in the shop with it saying FU to everyone. He ultimately wanted to destroy everything it seemed.
Probably the most disturbing event i've been a witness to was renting this house , sight unseen, then waking up the next morning and discovering the Yucca dump across the street with empty glue cans , empty boxes of turd corn , and disposable rubber chickens...Thank god i can share this with others...RJ
At a house fire we find the male occupant sitting out in the front yard, his multiple layers of clothes still smoking with an O2 mask already on his face. We recognize him to be an disabled adult that we frequently run on. Firefighters are already on scene and are motioning inside the house. The Captain appears anxious to show us something. "You've got to see this!"
We enter the front door into the entry way with the kitchen to our right. Cap pulls down the oven door and shows us the origin of the fire. The oven is filled with folded news papers from the top rack to the bottom. The living room is packed from the carpet to the celing with boxes. But, so far, I'm not convinced this is what the Cap wanted to show us. Cap continues to give us the tour.
I turn to my left and find VCR's stacked against the hallway and soon notice that the four foot high, eight foot wide stack are all pornography tapes. Next to these is a relatively smaller stack of 8" x 3" thin cotton pads that appear to be "stained." I look at Cap and he's shaking his head.
"Are those what I think they are?" I ask. Cap turns and points out the front screen door, "You see that building over there?" Cap asks. "That's a OB/GYN clinic. This guy goes over to the dumpsters and collects these things as well!"
Dang bro, that's must have looked pretty twisted and been severely heartwrenching. No doubt an overwhelming and traumatic experience to witness on the first morning at yer new digs. Hope ya gave the chickens a proper and respectful burial.
Some truly disturbing stories of the dark side of human nature, as painful to hear as they must be to remember. I admire those who've had the courage to shine a light on, and speak out against, abuse in whatever form.
Beng a lab tech in hospitals, you see some pretty strange stuff. Used to work at the Ketchikan General Hospital. It's kinda grim up there in the winter, the unrelenting rain and short days. Lot of people don't have work in the winter and get depressed. Lots of drugs and booze.
Brought one guy in ER one night, gun shot wound to the head, CPR in route. After they got him on the table, they went to pull the back board out and what remained of his brain fell out on the floor. Whole back side of his head was gone. Frank, the night supervisor, looked at me and said something about guess we really don't need any lab work. Yeah.
Only hospital I ever worked where they had a rubber room in the ER. And they used it a lot in the winter. One night they brought a teen aged girl over on the police boat from Metlakatla. She was absolutely wild, musta been on speed or coke or LSD or alcohol or all of the above. They shoved her in the room and she bounced off the walls in there for a good half hour screaming like some wild animal. We just watched through the window till she got tired out. Then we filed in real quiet and got her to lay down on the table (fixed to the floor)so the doc could check her out. There was a straight-jacket built into the table and about 6 of us proceeded to quietly lace her in before she figured out what was going on. She needed restraint because she had beat herself up bloody in there. When she figured out what we were doing she almost tore out of that jacket. Screaming and spitting clawing and you just knew you were watching someone go really insane.
I guess those are the most disturbing things I've witnessed.
Thanks Em, they are painful, and as you know, that story is just the tip of the iceberg!
Hoh man, Branscomb! You've got me flashing back to some days teaching in Juvenile hall...
I wasn't witness to it but Jay might be able to fill us in more.
If what I heard was correct from several sources, this person needs to be outed. And I know who he is and the climber in question is one of the best that there is.
Hint - they are among the few and proud OW'ers. He is American as they come. And she is one and only.
Disgusting what he did to her (and Jay is being kind he did worse, way worse).
Oh Jody, come back!!
That was so poignant. I think you have a lot to add here.
I remember that story of yours from years ago about the guy who still had the beer can clenched in his dead fingers, after a fatal crash. That image stayed with me. I thought of it when I stopped drinking.
Up to you of course, but I thought the part about how you put that incident into parallels from your own life was something a lot of people can relate to.
Who was the guy, the one that introduced the word "Beta" in it's colloquial sense, to the climbing lexicon, Who was murdered by his stalker?
Pretty sure there was talk of it here on the taco, but I couldn't find it.
Have a friend who grew up in Beirut lebanon in the 1980s he saw some super messed up stuff. For example a dude got thrown out of a high rise building. Personally I seen several bad car crashes with blood and all. I have also seen several fights that got really bad, really fast.
I was one of the first people to arrive at the scene of the "Gamblers Special" tour bus crash in the Walker river north of Bridgeport on the 1986 Memorial Day weekend in which 21 people died..as a Forest Ranger (hot chick!) and I worked to get survivors out of the partially submerged and destroyed bus, people would pull over, snap a few pictures, then jump back into their cars and continue on their merry way. Waaay disturbing!
Like half the arrests in the incarceration nation being for drugs, and pot being a schedule one drug while alcohol continues to be a much larger problem to society?
Seeing a mother high on drugs lose it while the daughter was trying to help and getting beat up for it. I was just a kid, had no idea what to do beyond run home and tell my Dad. He went over there and I never did find out what he did about it. All I know is I avoided that family for the rest of that summer and then they moved away to everyone's relief.
Oh gawd, that jolted my memory, one I thought i'd successfully repressed decades ago; On the way to Yosemite, we stopped somewhere in the bad part of town in a Western Oil Boomtown (not Gillette) so one of my ride share associates could get some money owed him.
He got the money, but not until after we all witnessed a young woman, replete in stained wifebeater and long stringy, dirty blonde hair, shooting up speed through a spike, on a couch in the next room. We couldn't get out of there fast enough!
The really disturbing part came a couple hundred miles later when one of my co-riders offered a fact I didn't know.....
"That was really gross, for a nursing mother to be doing that."
Hey Jaybro-Sounds like you were witness to a bad scene. You want to help, yet don't want to cross the line. It's hard to know if someone needs/wants help with that type of scenario. There's the timing of it all, and sometimes when you realize you should interject, the timing for it has past. It sounds like a bad situation.
Charming and manipulative people are very scary to be around, and they f*#k with your head big time! I have heard that a big sign of a sociopath is their tendency to "play the victim". They will have these very sad stories, everyone treats them so bad, yet they are really just crying crocodile tears. They have an uncanny ability to read you and what your weaknesses are, and play into that with ease. They charm you with what speaks to you on a deep level so you feel like you met someone very unique who sees the world similarly as you do, and you have rarely found someone who feels the way you do. The ability to say these things and somehow innately know what to say to hook you in is amazing. Then comes the Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde, and you are stunned. The manipulation comes with a lot of hypocrisy. A lot of sin of omission, a lot of double standards. And you definitely think no one is going to believe you about these things. These things can be so subtle and covert, that it is often hard to even describe/explain to someone. Anyone in a situation like that should get out as quickly as possible, no good will come of it, and you'll be left feeling very low. Also, I think it is good to remember that there are many friends and family, people who knew you for many years before you met this person, they know you/have known you and will be there for you. Not everyone will be fooled by this controlling manipulator "wolf in sheeps clothing"-and those who are may be weak minded anyway. People will be there for you-there are a lot of emotionally in-tune people who can get a sense of a sociopath or manipulator narcissist-so anyone trying to get out needs to know that.
Here are words I found on a website "tearsandhealing" that explain what I'm trying to say a lot better:
So what is a sociopath? A serial killer that strolls from one victim to another? Possibly, but not often. Ask yourself this: is your partner unable to form any kind of emotional bond with another person? Does he or she seem to be always without empathy for others, even their own family? Does he or she do things that to you seem beyond comprehension; and then carry on as if those actions made no difference? Is he or she in trouble with the law and other authorities? Does he or she like dangerous, outrageous or socially/sexually unacceptable activities that provide a thrill? If you see this dynamic in your partner, family member, coworker, or friend, you are very probably dealing with a sociopath.
If that isn't bad enough, most people who show sociopathic behavior aren't just sociopathic. They often also have narcissistic tendencies, sometimes intensely angered by anything that seems to suggest that he or she might have a flaw. In this mode, they will do anything, including brutalizing their own family, to maintain their own feeling that others see them as without any flaws. The combination is terribly painful to live with.
...And especially these words:
They Spin our Reality: Disordered people can't deal with the reality of their behaviors. On some level they realize how hurtful they are, yet accepting this major flaw in themselves is just too painful. So disordered abusers spin our reality to make theirs less painful. One of the most common defense mechanism they use is projection. In projection, a characteristic of themselves that they find just too painful to accept is projected onto us. And the most frequently projected characteristic is mental illness. "I'm not a sociopath. You're the crazy one." Another common and difficult defense mechanism is blame shifting. It's your fault this happened because blah, blah blah blah...
After a while it becomes hard to distinguish what is real from what is being projected and what is being distorted. We begin to doubt our reality and question whether we're the crazy ones, or whether our disordered SO's (significant others) are really right about what they say.
The truth is, THEY'RE NOT RIGHT. But they feel better when they can get us to carry the burden of their illness and their behavior.
What's more, disorder people hide their problems very effectively. People with all of these personality disorders - narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and antisocial personality disorder - have serious maladjustments in coping with life. Thus, they live in emotional turmoil. They seek to present a very together appearance, hiding their disease from most people. It is only when we get into a close and private relationship with someone with these personality disorders that the abusive behavior comes out. And because their lives are wracked with emotional turmoil, there is a lot of pent-up emotion that can be focused on us. Yet those around us don't see it, causing us further confusion.
-sorry for the length of this post, but it is helpful to post someone else's words who describes more clearly what I'm trying to say. And just to repeat, get out if any of the above sounds familiar to your experience. And if you got out-give your friends a huge hug for being there for you while you pick up the pieces. They WILL be there for you.
Yeah I know you think it's righteous for us to have the biggest prison population on the planet.
7 million people. 59% for drug offenses.
"The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. We rank first in the world in locking up our fellow citizens," said Ethan Nadelmann of the Drug Policy Alliance, which supports alternatives in the war on drugs.
"We now imprison more people for drug law violations than all of western Europe, with a much larger population, incarcerates for all offences."
Look at these evil totalitarian regimes.
The International Center for Prison Studies at King's College, London reported that this number was the highest of any country, with China ranking second with 1.5 million prisoners, and Russia sitting in third with 870,000.
I disagree, JLP, for the most part (I do understand what your trying to convey, that too exists, but so do people with zero empathy). It seems you must be lucky and have never experienced the damage and havoc that one of these psychologically marred people can wreak upon someone elses life. And I'm glad that's the case for you. And for that you have the luxury to claim sociopaths don't exist and it's all shades of grey.
I think he more implied that He was the final authority on who is or isn't. Pretty presumptuous for an anonymous troll. Or does he have credentials to back up that view? Does anyone know him in the real world?
Thanks Gal!! That is exactly what i was getting at that IS the type and person in a nutshell! A better more telling description than a photograph would be.
And fatty, stop putting words in my mouth, I'm with survival on that one.
Hmmm, I wonder if the guy in the op used his mj card to fuller advantage he would go easier on women?
I agree, there are some people out there that are truly evil. Gray works for most but... I grew up with a socialpath. Trust me, he was always one without empathy or remorse and I have always viewed him as truly evil. I also won't blame his parents since they were very normal with two other well adjusted kids. He is one of the people who like those who are born without legs or arms, like those with mental disabilities... He was born without the ability to connect that normally prevents a person from doing evil. It is what it is. He is now serving life in prison and no one in this corner of the woods is surprised. We just wonder why it took so long.
And for that you have the luxury to claim sociopaths don't exist
That isn't what he said at all.
Well, he said there are only shades of grey, no "ill" or "not Ill", wouldn't a sociopath be under the umbrella of "ill"?
Maybe came on too strong in my second post...
I suppose what I want to know is do you think sociopaths exist?
Do you believe in psychology and it's terminology?
Do you think you can never label someone a sociopath? Just curious...
I feel like there is a sliding scale on the ability to empathise-and then there's a sociopath-no ability at all. I do think there are shades of grey as far as various people's traits, even on a various day... but yet they would always have a varying degree of empathy. I also think there are people that fall under psychological definitions.
Thoughts?
I could be wrong-maybe there is no "ill" and "not ill", but when I have the flu, I sure feel "ill"-so I would think that would be true emotionally as well.?.
And I just wouldn't want someone to stay in a damaging situation. That was the intent of my earlier post. I've seen manipulation upon others, it's not cool.
when I have the flu, I sure feel "ill"-so I would think that would be true emotionally as well.?.
Well, your body can carry the flu virus and not be effected, or it can kill you - and plenty of in-between in my own experience.
Placing people in the DSM IV isn't a hard science, by any stretch. Shades of grey is my take, and more or less what I see in that book as well. You're welcome to your own interpretations.
Besides the Sociopaths, abusers, stalkers and other miscreants that befoul life by peeing in the communal pool, I find tragic, climbing accidents caused by simple mistakes that anyone, might make particularly disturbing.
Two carry outs I've in which I've taken part illustrate this point.
The first accident happened at the Cookie.(Mctwisted was on this one too and maybe can correct details I fumble) A Climber had died climbing a route by Beverly's Tower, Aftershock(?). He was leapfrogging a pair of small friends. atone point, pretty far runout and presumably pumped, he hung on a piece and and took the the one behind him out t reuse later. You can probably guess what happened next. The cam he was on pulled. He fell, pitched over backward, smashed his atlas / axis on the wall and bled out. There was some technical reason, like not enough rope,or something to lower to the ground, that he was held against heavy, mossy lichens for some time. As he bled they became engorged with his blood.
By the time we got there he was being bagged up. But I got a good look, before the final zipper. He was someone I'd seen around, one of us, like any of us could have been in his place. That was disturbing.
Then a ranger (?)giving a report over the walkie talkie mentioned that the victim was wearing contacts. The disturbing part of that was imagining someone lifting up the eyelids of a still warm body to discern that.
About two years later I was back at the scene to do some cragging. I walked by the scene and felt the memories. When I looked up there was a bare spot in the otherwise heavily lichened wall where the blood had killed the lichen. That too, was disturbing.
I think that's why I've mostly avoided climbing at the Cookie for the last twenty odd years.
This being the forum that it is, I won't be surprised at all if one or more of you shared this experience with me, though likely without the same proximity.
For a few years I was a Tuesday/Thursday evening regular at Mission Cliffs San Francisco. One evening, I was climbing the main handcrack, and when near the top came upon a climber on a route just left of the crack who hadn't moved for a bit.
Since this guy wasn't moving, was too close to comfortably/politely just squeeze by, and I was lapping, I said (from a few feet away) something to the effect of "hey, do you mind if I climb through". He didn't say anything, and just turned his eyes to meet mine.
At that point, he said, "I don't have a rope".
Hm. A quick visual check revealed that his powers of perception were totally intact. This dude had managed to be about 40 feet off the deck (perhaps 30, I'll grant), and indeed had no tether, save the contact of his hands and feet. [edit: I heard later that there was a mis-tied figure 8 involved, and that he believed himself tied in when he left the deck]
So, me being all nice and securely tied in on toprope, looks at him and says: dude - there is a HUGE bucket right there (gesturing to a literally arm-threadable toroid feature within arm's reach), so....
And before I had the chance to say "grab it and I will bullhorn you", the dude just let go.
And I watched him fall,screaming, the full height from there to the floor. I'll never forget the sound of impact. I'll also never forget the sound this guy started making shortly after impact. Sadly for him, he did not pass GO and proceed directly in to shock, but apparently stopped off right around the part of life's gameboard where existential-level pain lives, and started screaming in a way that got MC so quiet you could hear a pin drop - were it not for the screaming, of course.
I heard the dude was surfing a year later. Incredible.
I've never had to deliver that kind of news myself. I have been present when my ex wife, a family practice doctor, did. Those times were disturbing. Other times she reported and had to testify, in child abuse cases.
Once as a resident when she was moonlighting as a surgical assist. She woke me up in the night and just hugged me. It turned out that a woman our age in for routi e surgery had spontaneously died from the anasthetic.
I had a roomate who is very well known on the eastside and here amongst the 'bitd' folks and an expert skier. He came back to the apt. one evening after a day of skiing and was very upset. Evidently he had decided to ski Daves Run one afternoon after a fairly long spell without any snow. It was also early in the season and the cover was not yet that great. So you had icy conditions combined with the exposed rock field which meant it was not the place for begginer/intermediate skiers.
Two young brothers, one was 18 and his younger brother was about 14 had decided to ski the normally easy route down from the top(if you avoided the face of Daves). Evidently the 18 yr. old had persuaded his younger brother to accompany him to the top(his firsttime to the top)by convincing him he new an easy way down(the ridge of daves Run). Which is the case if it were not icy. Plus the rocks made it very dangerous. Well the kid fell and evidenly left a big chunk of his skull on the rocks.
My roommate, the first person at the scene, relayed the story to me about how he accompanied the 18 yrs. old down the mountain while the ski patrol raced ahead of them with the 14 yr old. With the 18 yr old asking him over and over about whether or not his brother was going to live or die and wishing that he hadn't talked him into going to the top, etc.! It was very hard for me to here second hand. And it clearly affected my roommate very deeply.
I feel like there's a healing quality about this thread.
We keep disturbing events in a numb place that divides us. Bringing them back to awareness frees the part of us that needed to be unconscious or guarded.
I tried writing something else but it is still too much after 35 years. I can
go months sometimes but then I'll have that vision of her breathlessly running
down the walkway in front of their house as I walked up. I was just back from
my expedition and she was about to joyously welcome me back until she saw
my face. I never said a word.
The other carry out I referred to, disturbing because it was avoidable happened in Little Cottonwood Canyon in the mid eighties.
With the memory of the cookie carry out fresh in my noggin, I arrived at the Gate boulders parking in Little cottonwood, to a flurry of police and sar vehicles.Right after I parked they closed the highway and a helicopter landed. I heard a cop tell the pilot that the victim was deceased, and it took off.
"Victim?" I thought.
It turned out that a guy had grounded on the route Beckey's wall. He was maybe thirty feet up leading when his single wired nut rattled out. His belayer brought this to his attention and he panicked, going from calm but apprehensive to...worse. He ended up falling, sliding down the low angle dihedral, bouncing on his feet and arcing over backwards and impacting the back of his Neck ( he was, wearing ahelmet!) on a protruding rock and like the other guy, fracturing his atlas/axix connection and bleeding out.
It started to rain, and my job became that of spotting cowboy boot shod Sar personnel carrying the litter down the little cottonwood granite that is slick even when it's dry I was sure there would be a further accident!
The importance of a calm, lead-head can't be over emphasized! But,also again, know who you tie in with, anticpate whether news like that will help or fluster.
Edit for below Har Har, I believe I was wearing lava domes....
After a Dead show at the Kaiser my buddy and I were wandering around lost trying to contain a broken 12 pack and find our hotel.
We knew we were in a bad neighborhood...not a creature was stirring...
Then a lady runs out of her apartment building to use the pay phone out front.
We decide to approach her and ask where the fûck we are and how to get to our hotel.
"Excuse me, ma'am..."
She turns around holding her belly and a bunch of bloody intestines.
Just imagine that..."enhanced". CRAZY!
Disturbing for sure.
We ran like hell, beer cans spilling out everywhere.
My buddy kept trying to pick them up.
I kept running.
They took Epperson's film in that ordeal? WTF? Never heard that part of it before. From the photo spread that ended up in the mag, I assume he got it back?
So Jaybro, to go back to your original question of what to do in that situation....now that you've had what reads to be a lot of great input, what would you do now? Maybe I missed it but I haven't read what you'd do. For me (and most of us have seen abusive/dangerous situations of all kinds on the rock), I step in if it looks like some sort of physical harm is about to take place. I've reacted and become involved if I saw something about to happen whether it be a relationship dispute or an accident waiting to happen. Most victims I've talked to would have liked to have had someone step in (although cop friends have told me, and maybe Fatrad can verify that domestic disputes are the most dangerous situations).
There's been more then a few times where I got involved if I saw someone about to get hurt or helped after someone was hurt. But it's a tough call if it doesn't look like physical danger is present to step into the fray. Would you do anything different? Great topic
What would I do differently? I'll save that for another post, i've learned a lot more since this incident, and a lot of things would be different now.
Well I could write about what I did do (and am still doing) in that situation. But that's really secondary, (and there are some ongoing confidentiality concerns) the point was more to show an example of something that a lot (almost all) of us have seen and been involved with all too often, but never talk about.
And Start a dialog about it.
Getting different voices, and providing resources for people who are abused in this, or any, manner, is a key issue.
What is the motivation for being abusive like the person in the op?
-What can they possible get out of it? A photo of themselves? a feeling of bringing someone else down to their own level?
a Mysoginistic Stoke?
Would further examples help? We're just hitting the tip of the Pluton, here.
Another point of all this, was to mention other disturbing things, as a catharsis.
Like I said somewhere in this, the most disturbing thing is being witness to disasters of various kinds that are preventable. I think it's useful to have thought about this before the next potentially preventable situation presents itself.
The various people who have mentioned the danger of entering into a domestic dispute make a very good point, it can be hazardous to enter into. But sometimes there is something you can do, and thinking about it beforehand can only help.
I spent (8) months with a true "sociopath" in NOLA back in '98-'99. Wow, a lot of what I read in your post hit "her" spot on! Being a Paramedic, at the time, I think, made it even worse for me. Man, was I taken for "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride." I eventually heeded an Father's advice to, "Run Forest, run!" and made it back to California, where I was eventually contacted by an attorney who told me she was being investigated for prescription narcotics fraud. I told myself that I would write a book about my experience and even coined the title, "Her Beautiful Mind" and titled (25) or so chapters, but I'll probably never finish it. It was something right out of a Tom Clancy novel....wild.
walking home from school in the fifth grade, I came upon a crowd circled in the street. There was the body of a young boy in the street. He had been hit by a car and his head was blown up. Someone ran up and threw a sheet over the body. I stood and watched a small red dot form on the sheet and it just kept growing.......
My friend and I were driving on Mulholland Hwy in Cali. There was a bunch of crotch rocket bikes racing up these hair pin turns. We pulled into a big dirt turnout to watch the action. (Long Story Short) The riders were taking turns racing up this hill around 3 or 4 turns..... While 3 bikes were in full race up the hill 2 others were going back down. Anyway all 5 somehow collided and turned the road into a junkyard. We ran down to try to help any way we could. Only 1 rider was seriously hurt. His leg from the knee down to his foot was just the bones and I mean just the bones. The bones didn't seem to be broken at all. The guys foot was looking pretty normal. After the paramedics showed up and took over, it dawned on us. Where the fuc# is the rest of his leg? We and others at the seen looked everywhere and never found it. We looked in the boot, the bikes, the bushes, ETC ETC. This guy was at least 6' tall and his other leg looked as if his calf was like a good sized tri-tip. I still can't figure where it all ended up. One thought we had was a coyote ran off with it. Disturbing!
OK, there was that time we were coming back from Squamish, driving through the rolling hills east of White Rock. Some guy in a convertible decided it was a good idea to pass on the left just below the crest of one of those hills. The bad news? There was a semi cresting the hill at that moment, and bearing down at an unavoidable convertible-crushing speed.
We arrived on the scene shortly after the event. As we approached the accident, I saw the liquid petrol running quickly down the steep hill, and knew we were early on the scene. I was already horrified, seeing the huge semi and trailer fully sprawled across two lanes, with the front buried in a hedge of a house on the right side and a mangled car-like mass below it.
As we parked and got out of the car, several people were dragging a guy out of the soft-top convertible that was knocked back down-hill 50 yards or so from where the semi was across the road.
A quick assessment of the front axle of the semi being driven 2 feet off the front axle line determined that, as the trucker crested the hill and saw the on-coming speeding car, he swerved hard right to avoid the future-dead-man and the convertible slammed into his left front wheel...enough to knock it off TWO FEET from the wheel alignment (and for the rebound to kick the car back down-hill, completely crushed).
The guy being pulled out of the convertible was alive, but just barely. His eyes were jet black, limbs were hanging wrong, and he was gurgling loudly. I was amazed there was even a human-like shape to drag out of that car.
early 90's found
my friends troy, jason and i gaily
driving up the mountain highway
enroute to donner summit for a day of scares.
we three are stuffed into the wee cab of
troys '86 toyota,
for some reason the 6'6' man was
riding bitch, and i, all 5'-seven inch riding shotgun.
that leaves troy behind the steering.
im sure that led zepplin was our anthem,
probably no quarter, but it coulda been tool
or rage against the machine.
no it was zepplin. the lemmon song.
we were high on that shite.
so big dreams in my mind spinning.
who knows what ja's thinkin on, but he's twice
removed from our plane,
troy is along singing with robert,
song breaks,
troy, who went thru this phase of wearing tight
80's shorts, you know the kind with the double
white stripe down each leg,
pipes up,
"hey check it out. i got some gum on my leg."
jason and i are snapped back home
and we both ratchet our glances
towards troys leg,
and there's no f*#kin gum
but instead we can see his scrotum
kinda welded to his upper leg
with all the sweat and our lack
of showing funk,
due to his proximity jason goes
air borne in attempt to distance
hisself from troy's mannards,
he bounces of the roof,
and lands kinda on me
and robert starts repeating,
"sqeeze my lemon.."
as the cd skips and i spill
my beer, and the wrest of the
day i have a stuck in my head
the vision
of troys wrinkled sack
glued to his hairy thigh
and in my ear is echoing
plant's high pitched voice
telling me to squeeze his lemnon
till the juice runs down his leg.
im pretty sure i took a huge
whipper on nova express that day.
my head was just cross-threaded.
Years ago I was stationed at a firehouse in downtown Los Angeles and was assigned there as a paramedic, a new one to boot. My partner and I had just ordered our lunch at King Taco ashen we were called to an explosion at the First Interstate Bank Building. As we arrived it became clear that the noise thought to be an explosion was actually a suicide jumper off the roof of the bank and had landed and exploded in the middle of the intersection. Upon inspection I was amazed to discover that every bone in this guys body had been blown out and left what looked like a skin suit. The guy was a German Airforce serviceman and had recently been dumped by his girlfriend while he was in the states for training.
I have been on lots of jumpers since then but that one takes the cake. Oh and I did manage to choke down my King Taco afterward. Nothing beats a King Taco al pastor burrito.
Another MVA when, during rush-hour on I-99, up in the north part of Tulare County, a semi veered left into the center median (dirt with bushes) to avoid rear-ending the traffic in front of him. The softer dirt pulled him further into the median into the oncoming, northbound traffic, rolling over a convertible Cadillac with a woman behind the wheel. When we arrived the Cadillac was still in situ in the fast lane, the driver still with the lap and shoulder belt secure. Her seat was completely reclined and her torso had a large streak of axle grease down the middle of it. She was decapitated with bits of her brunette hair stuck to her shoulders as well. We found her head in the center dirt median rolled up in sticker bushes. Her lower jaw was found under the rigs front bumper. The trucker was standing outside of his vehicle shaking, saying, "I didn't mean to do that, God, I really didn't mean to do that." He ended up being the only "patient" we had to treat. He refused transport to a hospital.
Do you know what the last thing that went through that lady's head was?
This is a story I wrote back in the late 90's while working in Washington County Oregon:
**"When *#%! Hits the Fan!"**
"Unit 12 your location?" the mobile 800 megahertz radio interrupts the drone inside the ambulance cab.
"Unit 12, west bound 26, approaching Cedar Hills," I respond from the navigators seat.
"Unit 12, respond to 2346 Barnes Road, apartment #206 for a GSW (gun shot wound). The scene is secure per Washington County SO (Sheriff Officer) on scene."
" Unit 12, copy, GSW at 2346 Barnes Road, apartment #206, responding," I reply back.
My partner Don reaches his right hand up to flip on the master switch to the emergency lights. A glow of red, blue and white lights reflect off of the highway around us and the nearby cars. It has begun to rain with small droplets now appearing on the windshield. Don slows to change lanes to the right for our exit is approaching ahead.
"Clear on the right," I inform Don after I make a head check out my window. I reach back to the laminated city map behind the center console, flip on the map light and confirm the location given to me.
"You know where you're going Don? I ask.
"Yeah, I know RIGHT where it is," he emphatically replies. As we approach the stop sign at the end of the exit ramp, Don activates the siren to warn oncoming vehicles. The simultaneous wail and yelp of the siren echoes into the night. It is about eight o'clock on a Friday evening. Vehicles slow and attempt to pull to the right and stop. After a bit of confusion and chaos the intersection is clear and safe to proceed into.
Don makes a right turn onto Cedar Hills Boulevard and accelerates into the left lane. Barnes Road is ahead about an eighth of a mile. Another right turn puts us less than a minute out from the scene. The flashing of other emergency vehicles can be seen ahead on the right in an apartment complex parking lot.
"There it is, on the right," I inform Don.
"Yeah, I see it" he confirms back to me. Don slows to turn into the driveway and proceeds slowly over the speed bumps in the road ahead. He positions the ambulance next to the curb on the left ahead of the police and sheriff vehicles already on scene. A simultaneous scene survey reveals crime scene tape already cordoning off the steps heading up to the second floor. Sheriff and police officers are positioned at the base of the staircase as well as at the top.
"Medcom, Unit 12 has arrived on scene." I inform the dispatch center.
"Copy Unit 12, on scene." The dispatcher replies. I grab my portable radio, glance out the window for traffic then open the door. I step out on to the wet pavement shutting the door behind me. I pull out the airway bag and drug kit from the side compartment. Don continues to the rear of the ambulance and opens the back doors to gain access to the gurney. The gurney lock is pushed as an audible "POP" is heard to signify it's release. The EKG monitor is already strapped to the mattress with the patient seat belts. I meet up with Don at the rear doors and swing my bags onto the top of the gurney. Don takes a position at the foot as I push from the head. After a quick lift over the curb we meet the officers at the bottom of the stairs.
"They're up in room #206, up and to the right guys" an officer informs us.
"Thanks, appreciate it." Don acknowledges. The gurney is secured down at the base of the steps as we retrieve our equipment and begin the walk up to the second deck. I am ahead of Don with the airway bag. Don is behind with the drug kit and EKG monitor. As we reach the top of the stairs the officers continue to guide us to the correct apartment.
The front door is open. It is dimly lit inside. I step onto a dark green, carpeted, unlit living room. The kitchen light is on with an officer visible, standing in the middle of it, listening to a distraught, crying female.
"In the bedroom guys," the same officer, who's holding a pen and notepad, raises his arm and points to his right while making eye contact with me. I turn and see a bedroom lit up with an incandescent light and two officers crowding the doorway. I can hear a muffled, inspiratory groan coming from inside the bedroom. As I part the two officers at the doorway I find two more officers, one standing at the foot of the bed, another at the near side and a plain clothed male on his knees at the end of the bed as well. His arms are up on the comforter, his bloodied head is between his arms and his face turned to the left. His respiratory rate is somewhat rapid and his groan almost sounds purposeful.
"What happened?" I ask a general question to the officers present.
"It appears that this guy shot himself after an argument with his girlfriend who's out in the kitchen," an officer replies.
"What did he shoot himself with and where?" I ask.
"Where not sure but..." The officer interrupts his sentence by moving his right hand up to his mouth, his hand taking on the form of holding a weapon, then pulling the imaginary trigger.
"Where's the weapon?" I ask with concern.
At that moment, I witness the officers start to look at each other with a "I don't know, do you?" look on their faces.
"We haven't found it yet" one officer finally admits. At this point I really don't care who didn't do what. All I know is that we're not going to do anything else until someone finds a weapon! Don and I step back and remain outside as the officers begin a careful search inside the room.
"Here it is, I've found it!" an officer finally belts out standing beside the far side of the bed. "The slide is open, it looks like a .38 caliber. I'll secure it if you guys want to go ahead and do your thing," he instructs us as he stands, straddling the weapon on the floor next to the night stand, electing to leave the weapon in situ.
We leave our equipment outside the bedroom door. Don proceeds to the patients head and starts looking for the source of the bleeding. His gloved hands quickly become bloodied as he runs his fingers through the victims hair.
"I've found the bubbling brew!" Don exclaims, smiling with morbid sarcasm in his voice. I bend over with a facial grimace to take a look at his finger pointing at his find. I continue the exam by cutting the back of his shirt open. His back is clear, revealing no additional trauma.
"Hey, can you hear me?" I ask him with a loud voice, my hand on his shoulder giving him a firm shake. The patient continues to groan without an appropriate response.
"Lean him back for a sec Don. Let me look in his mouth." I request, taking my mini-mag light out of it's holster on my right hip. I twist the lens to turn it on and pull the patients chin down. I can see a lot of blood pooling in the patients mouth and I see what appears to be a round entry wound at the top of his palate. I check a radial pulse at his wrist and find it to be rapid, regular and strong.
"Gary, what do you want to do with this guy? Don asks.
"There's a lot of room out in the living room, let's move him out there and work on him. What do you think?" I inquire.
"Sounds good," Don concurs.
The apartment appears fairly empty. It's hard to tell if these people are just moving in or if they are on their way out. Either way, they're making it pretty easy for us to find a work space (space is always a necessary commodity when working on a patient and more often than not, hard to come by. The lighting isn't good and this is going to be an issue as we progress with the call).
I take the lead and lean the patient back so I can place my arms under his armpits from behind. Bending down, I reach through and grab each of his wrists in my opposing hands (this gives me better support and leverage and helps keep his arms from inverting up over his head. A flaccid body with no muscle tone is very heavy and difficult to manage). In tandem, Don and I pivot the guys body around so Don can manage his legs. I lift his body up off of his knee's as Don pulls his legs out from underneath him. I lose my balance and sit back on the edge of the bed.
"You okay?" Don asks with concern.
"Yeah, I'm good." I reply. "You see anything on his chest or belly?" I ask trying to avoid missing anything.
"No, nothing," Don responds after lifting up his half cut shirt. I can see silhouettes moving out in the living room now. Tan overpants with suspenders and a blue t-shirt soon become apparent as I recognize the arrival of the local firefighters. One in particular, Mark, appears in the doorway first.
"You guys need a hand?" Mark asks with a motivational look on his face.
"We're moving this guy out into the living room. Can you guide Don out? I request.
"Got it," Mark replies.
"Ready? One, two, three!" I count out loud as we both stand in unison. Don walks backward out the bedroom door as Mark guides him with a hand on Don's belt.
"Where you guys putting him?" Mark asks.
"In the middle of the living room is good." I grunt with my arms full. Don lays the patients feet down on the carpet as another officer spots me as I lay his torso down.
"What happened to this guy?" Mark inquires.
"He put a gun in his mouth and shot himself. He's got an entry wound inside his mouth and an exit wound out the top of his head. The weapon is secure in the bedroom with the officer. He says it looks like a .38 caliber. As you can see, he's breathing on his own and he has a strong radial pulse." I respond trying to give Mark as pertinent and detailed of a turnover as I can (Mark is a Paramedic as well and can assist us in advanced life support if needed).
"Let me know what I can do for you guys and I'll give you a hand," Mark offers.
"Can you put my airway bag over here next to me Mark?" I request pointing back next to the bedroom doorway. "And, do you guys have some suction?" I ask referring to a portable suction device that is commonly carried by first responders.
"Portable suction!" Mark barks out to his fellow firefighters. My airway bag and a battery operated suction machine appear quickly and are placed beside me within easy reach.
Now that I have the patient laying supine on his back his airway is quickly becoming compromised from the copious amount of blood that is pooling in his mouth. I suction this thick serous fluid with a rigid plastic catheter that is attached to flexible tubing coming from the suction machine. The cyclic groan emanating from the suction machine produces a syncopated cadence along with the moan coming from the patient! Thick clots are now becoming apparent and starting to plug the end of the suction catheter causing the groan of the machine to take on a higher octave (a pretty morbid, harmonized symphony if you ask me)! Don and Mark simultaneously begin to place the patient on the EKG monitor, obtain vital signs and prepare to obtain intravenous (IV) access in the event the patient needs fluids or medications.
My job is quickly getting nowhere fast! Blood clots the size of toothpaste coming from the tube are starting to come out of the patients nostrils! The patient is starting to clench his teeth down now making it next to impossible to suction through his mouth (when a person's brain is starved of oxygen one response to this "hypoxia" is for the muscles of the jaw to tighten)! Blood is everywhere...pooling in his eyes, dripping down his face and out from between his clenched teeth! And, to add to this deteriorating mess, the battery to the suction machine starts to lose it's power taking on the growl of a slowing record on a turntable!
"I'll go get another battery," a firefighter initiates as he starts the trip downstairs to his truck.
"Give me a towel or something! I ask in frustration as an officer finds a kitchen towel and hands it to me. I wipe the mess away the best I can when without notice...the patient coughs forcefully!
"Argh!" I yell out. "You've got to be kidding me!" rocking back onto my heels. My glasses are covered with blood now dripping off of them. My face feels wet as well. Another towel is handed to me as I take my glasses off to wipe away the mess.
"This guy needs to be paralyzed so I can intubate him!" I inform Don and Mark with an obvious rise in my inflection.
"We ain't going to be able to do anything if we don't get an IV on this guy!" Mark looks up at me with wide eyes obviously referring to their difficulties (paralytic agents are used to relax a persons muscle tone, in this case, to facilitate the passing of an ET tube. The IV route is the preferred route of drug administration)."Try to ventilate him!" Mark suggests trying to come up with a temporary solution for me.
Don gets up and runs down to the ambulance, passing the firefighter who's running upstairs with the fresh battery, to where we keep the Rapid Sequence Induction (RSI) kit (a kit containing the medications necessary to paralyze in a rapid and sequential manner). Another firefighter breaks out the bag valve mask (BVM) and attaches it to a bottle of oxygen so I can attempt to oxygenate the patient. I do my best in obtaining a tight seal around the guys mouth and nose with the resuscitation mask while I squeeze the bellows of the BVM. This soon becomes futile as well for I am blowing blood everywhere (it is next to impossible to pass anything around or through a patients clenched teeth or through an obstructed nose)! Don returns with the RSI kit and continues with their difficult task.
"We've got one!" Mark exclaims as he and Don finally find an IV site and secure it to the patients arm. Don and Mark quickly crunch numbers as they come up with the proper dosage's for the medications that they are about to administer to the patient. They draw up Succinylcholine into a syringe and pull out the Lidocaine. I've transferred my responsibility to a nearby firefighter as I prepare my equipment in anticipation of intubating the patient.
"You ready?" Don looks up at me with one syringe in hand, the other in Mark's, waiting for my acknowledgement. I finish up my preparation.
"Yep, go for it." I knod, giving Don the go ahead. The two medications are carefully administered. The room becomes silent as we wait for the drugs to take affect (the paralyzing agent, Succinylcholine, usually has a quick onset of action. The muscles will fasciculate or start to tremor as the drug takes affect. The patient will stop breathing and the muscles will become flaccid as the medication reaches it's full potential).
After recognizing the signs we were all anticipating I proceed with the intubation of the patient. Lying myself prone on the floor, I gently insert the laryngoscope blade (a wide, curved or straight, metal blade attached to a handle held in the left hand) into the patients mouth, lifting and sweeping the tongue up and to the left so I can visualize the patients vocal chords (the trachea (breathing tube) is attached to the vocal chords which are a landmark in order to help successfully intubate a patient). I quickly realize that suctioning is required first for the patients mouth is again full of blood. The fresh batteries of the suction machine groan like a champ as I clear the patients mouth the best I can. I can see the vocal chords easily and look to pick up the ET tube with my right hand. Grasping the curved, thirty centimeter tube with my thumb, first and second fingers I begin to insert it into the patients mouth towards it's critical destination when, POP!...my left hand shoots towards the ceiling as the tension of my hand, holding the weight of the patients head off the floor, releases! The head hits the carpet with a dull THUMP! ! I look down in the dim light.
"Please, give me some light!" I plead as an officer quickly shines his flashlight at my hands. I find the detached laryngoscope blade still in the patients mouth, the handle in my left hand!
"What in the world?!" I explode out loud. I quickly remove the blood coated blade from the patients mouth attempting to reattach it to the handle when I feel someone tapping me on the back. I turn and look over my right shoulder, the flashlight beam following my every move.
"Gary, the weld broke!" Don exclaims, his face lit up by the bright flashlight circle shown in his face. "Look!" he points with his finger. I look back down at the two pieces, one in each of my hands.
"How did that happen?!" I ask myself looking at the top of the laryngoscope handle (I can't lie but right now I'm drawing a blank as to what to do next!).
"We've got a disposable laryngoscope down in the truck!" Mark reports out loud. "It's in the side panel next to..." Mark continues to give instructions as Don, again, hightails it downstairs to the fire truck.
"Ventilate the guy!" Mark instructs. I reach over and pick up the BVM. The bellows and mask is sticky with drying blood. The patients mouth has filled up again so I suction the dark red fluid, watching it travel through the tubing as it adds to the filling reservoir. I squeeze the BVM with every breath I take.
Time seems to be moving so slowly as we wait for Don to return with the extra equipment.
"Where the heck is he!" I exclaim to myself looking back to the front door. Just then I hear the crackling of plastic in front of me. I turn back around to see Mark reaching into a bag, pulling out a plastic package which I soon recognize to be that of a tracheotomy kit (it is taught to keep this device readily available in case, "*#%! hit's the fan!" during an RSI procedure). My level of anxiety drops and my excitement rises to another level as I realize what is about to transpire!
"Great idea Mark!" I quietly exclaim. Mark continues to open the package as I instruct a fireman to continue to suction and ventilate the patient the best he can. I don sterile gloves and begin to prepare the patients neck, sterilizing it with alcohol and betadine swabs first.
I raise my head and note that a sheriff officer with a white, handlebar mustache is standing at the foot of the patient with a camera hanging from a strap around his neck. I quickly deduce that he is the crime scene photographer and get a fantastic idea in my head.
"Excuse me!," I raise my voice trying to get his attention. "Would you be able to get pictures of this for us?" I ask with intentions of documenting this rarely performed field procedure and use it for future educational purposes. Without answering, the officer grasps the camera in his hands and begins to make adjustments. He holds the camera up to his eye when brilliant flashes of white light start to illuminate the room while clicking of shutters adds to the cacophany of noises already present.
Getting back to my task at hand I locate the cricothyroid membrane [a physical landmark on the front of the neck, the insertion site below the larynx (voice box)] with my right forefinger. Pinching the skin over the site between my left fingers, I take a surgical blade in my right hand and make a horizontal incision through the skin and fatty tissue. There is minimal bleeding. I take my right forefinger and place it into the incision, resting it against the membrane.
"I'm ready when you are Mark." I anxiously wait keeping my finger in place.
There is jingling at the front door. We turn to see Don arrive from his wild goose chase.
"I couldn't find the darn thing!" Don exclaims a bit out of breath. "Oh, that'll work too!" he continues, seeing the change of treatment plan already in progress. With the tracheotomy kit readied Mark replaces my finger with his and begins the procedure (a large gauge, break-away needle is used to penetrate the crichothyroid membrane. This enables the insertion of a plastic catheter which in turn faciltates the introduction of the tracheostomy device itself).
"Help me out Gary." Mark asks, his hands starting to shake uncontrollably.
"No problem Mark, I've got ya." I respond, placing my hands on his, helping to guide the catheter in place (the plastic catheter graduates in size and increases the diameter of the insertion site as it is advanced and Mark is having considerable difficulty inserting the last of the device).
"Stand up, you have to sit on it!" I exagerate. Mark stands to straddle the patient and applying firm, controlled pressure with both hands, seats the device into place against the patients neck. After assisting with securing the device, the BVM is attached and I resume ventilations without difficulty. Finally the patients airway is secure and blood is prevented from entering his airway!
The patient is evenually packaged and moved downstairs to the awaiting gurney by the firefighters then transfered to the ambulance. A fireman drives the ambulance while Don and I both ride in the back with the patient while further care and treatment is given enroute to the trauma center.
Well Scott, as I've said before, it's not about the gross out. It's about things that disturb you and how you deal with it.
People have shared what disturbs them. So have you. I guess a lot of them are the sorts of stories that annoy you. You'll notice I didn't post any of the material you're complaining about.
Things disturb us and we deal with it. Sometimes we second guess how we handle it and sometimes other peoples stories and analysis is educational and help us recognize dangerous situations in the future. Opens our eyes, as it were.
Nobody is forcing you to read this, Scott. If you already know how to deal with whatever situation you might find yourself in and don't want to share what you've learned about how to do that, feel free to move on.
Personally I think there is value in letting abusers, stalkers, sexual predators, and other sorts of bullies know that rest of the world is on to them. That their behavior has been seen. Incidents prevented are ones that we don't have, to be disturbed by.
Education Prevention Catharsis
I don't need to follow Werner or anyone to see horrible things. My years as an EMT will suffice for that. Im not in a competition for who has seen the worst, you're missing the point, Coz. Maybe reread the first post?
Here is a story, "disturbing" at that, which occurred nearly 54 years ago. I have never told anyone about it till this very day. I actually have started to tell it here on this thread a few times, but so far have struggled to find the right words and have ended up deleting it(part way through). But it is a very compelling story, one that I am determined to share, regardless how incomplete the character development aspects are. As I think about that day, those moments on the bridge, it seems to somewhat parallel an incident right out of "Lord of the Flies". The analytical "Why?" That is what I look into, what I question and what I attempt perceive or understand...troubling as they may be. But I do understand, and better yet, was made aware of. Of what you may ask? EVIL! It exists, is alive and well. I'm not preaching here, I have simply come in contact with it many times over the years. To dismiss it as something else would be delusion, IMO. But there is also GOOD. I will leave it at that. I'm rambling already...
So here I go again, I'll try and keep it short.
It was the beginning of summer, 1958, and I had just turned 9 yrs old. We were living in the country outside of Massena, NY about 30 mi south of the Canadian border. I set out on my bike one afternoon and stopped when I encountered about a half dozen kids ranging in age 8-12 and one 14 year old. I new them from my weekday bus rides to and from school. They were primarily brothers and cousins along with one of their neighbors. I can't say that I considered them friends, not by a long shot. Mainly because my attempts to befriend them were, for the most part, rebuffed. And, without going into detail, the 14 yr old was simply not a good kid and he controlled the younger kids, and delegated who they could associate with,etc.! He was the oldest in the family. Someone to avoid, or so I learned through experience, observation and discernment. But, my parents would occasionally send me over to their farm(the only one close by)to buy fresh eggs, etc., and the 14 year old was the one I had to deal with!
So, one afternoon, I come upon these 5-6 kids on this country road about a mile away from my house. The narrow two lane road crossed a canal that was about 15 ft wide and about 6-8ft deep. It brought water to the area farms/fields. A cement pipe of about 5-6ft in diameter crossed under the road, carrying the water underneath to the other side.
But this early in the Summer the canal had over flowed its banks on the north side of the road and had formed a temporary swimming hole just before it flowed(with force)into the concrete pipe and under the bridge. This is where I found this group of kids, swimming and taken advantage of the cool water on a hot summer day.
Of course I wanted to join them, but the oldest kid(14)said that I first had to do what they had already done, and that was jump off the bridge and let the water suck me underneath the bridge, through the pipe and out the other side. All I had to do was hold my breath for about 10-15 seconds and the pull of the current would suck me through and safely out the other side, or so he described it. "No big deal, we've all done it!" the oldest kid said and the others either verbally or silently agreed(confirmed with a positive nod of the head). "Then you can join us."
I got off my bike and climbed down the bank on the far(opposite)side and attempted to peer through the concrete pipe to where they were waiting, but the water was touching the top of the pipe as it was sucked through and emptied out into the pool.
I climbed back onto the bridge and hesitated at the edge, considering all the possible outcomes. I looked at the faces of the kids. Everything had come to a halt, most of them just stared with their mouths open, but one kid(11-12yrs old)was very adamant in regards to how easy it was, how safe it was and how they had all done it earlier that day, and many times over the years.
The oldest kid, the one who had suggested the deed/challenge, just stood there facing me, silently waiting for me to do it, as a couple of the others coached me on. But I had come to not trust this kid(14 yr old)one iota. There were at least two other incidents where he had set me up, without warning, that could have ended up in great bodily harm. As a matter of fact, the very first time I had ventured over to their farmhouse one evening some 5-6 months before(we had moved there around Nov, 1957 when I was 8). But that's another story in itself.
No, I was not going to step off and get sucked underneath the road to the other side when I couldn't see all the way through. I had already made up my mind, but as I stood on the edge of the bridge just above the concrete pipe, this one kid(11-12yr old)just wouldn't give up. And his initially positive encouragement suddenly turned to a very bitter disappointment with taunts of coward, etc. when it became evident that I wasn't going to follow through. He was down right pissed off that I hadn't jumped...that is what I find disturbing.
So I walked off the small bridge, climbed on my bike and went on my merry way that day.
About two or three weeks later, after the canal was no longer overflowing and the "temporary swimming hole" had more or less dried up and returned to normal. By normal I mean the concrete pipe that ran under the bridge and connected to the canal directly on the other side was less that half full and you could stand on one end and see all the way through to the other side. You could actually walk through the pipe, if you chose to do so, in about 3ft of water as it now slowly ran underneath the road and drained into to the other side. Or so it seemed as I rode by in my parents car one day.
So I rode my bike down to the bridge to take a closer look, to survey the course I would have blindly taken a few weeks before had I met their challenge.
Sure enough, about midway(10-15ft)there was rebar crisscrossing the pipe and this was reinforced with a large patch of screen/chicken coop wire. It would have been impossible to swim, walk or attempt to squeeze through it. I would have been sucked through the pipe and trapped under water, held there by the force of the current. I would have drowned within seconds or minutes.
I more than half expected it from the oldest(14yrs)kid. That is a rather long story. Like I have already said, this kid had purposefully gotten me into life threatening predicaments on at least two other occasions. I no longer trusted him. And his younger siblings/cousins and one or two neighbors were more or less under his control/domination.
But this other kid(11-12), was not only determined to trick me into jumping into that deadly trap, but was extremely pissed when I didn't. That is what I found/find "disturbing"!!
Silver, you're just noticing what a wanking rantard Coz is on the ST?!
He bullies those he thinks he can bully, no matter the futility. And he has no clue of how off the mark he can be. He actually recently put himself and the General above YC as green crusaders or whatever he was thinking. By now though, he may have back-edited his post as he commonly does. Very similar to AC in that way besides the behind-the-monitor boldness.
Oh, and there are persistent rumors that Scott might have been the Video Preacher in the whole Medusa Crab-Grass Baby affair.
I friend of mine was in NYC on the 38th floor looking out a window when below he sees a woman on the roof of a 6 story building.
She walks to the the edge above the street and starts to put her leg over.
Then she pulls back and decides to lead with her other leg.
That does the trick and he hears her thud about a sixth of a second after he sees her barely miss a pedestrian.
Ron's post just brought back memories of something that occurred a couple of years ago. My girlfriend and I had planned a relaxing evening consisting of dinner and a concert in the santa cruz mountains. The venue where the concert was held is one of our favorites, as it is quite intimate and all of the seats are fantastic, no matter where you sit.
We are half way through the concert. A couple of glasses of wine had been consumed. I am entranced by the singers' voices, the setting, and mood within the crowd. The song the band was playing was just ending, and they are about to lead into their most popular song, a very popular love song. Well, just as the band begins, something falls on the right side of the stage. Immediately, I am perplexed, because the only thing I can deduce is that a speaker or light had fallen from above.
My girlfriend starts saying, "That's a body. Oh my God. That's a body." I look at those around us, and say, "No way. That was a speaker." Other people were just as stunned, and started offering different explanations.
Seconds later, the lead singer walks over, looks at the object, and starts screaming, "Get a doctor!" We were in the "cheap seats", so we did not see everything up close. However, you could make out the form and see the expressions from those sitting in front.
Looking back, I haven't thought about that incident in a long time. The weird thing is, it did not have the effect on me I thought it would. I simply accepted it. I felt sorry, of course, that this young man would do what he did, especially in front of a crowd.
Isn't it interesting how our lives are so interconnected. One girl makes a choice, which causes one guy to make a choice, and in the end, thousands are affected.
While in college, I went down to Berkeley to visit a good friend, that night she suggested we'd go to a party at one of the local college house parties.
So we go.
Showing up at the party it was packed with the usual shenanigans, music, drugs, and lotsa partying going on.
My friend and I head down to the dance floor shaking our groove having a good time.
I noticed though a very drunk girl looking clammy dancing near us, (It was really hot in the house with so many bodies) stumbling and falling over, we chalked it up to the usual drunkeness, but then she fell to the ground not moving.
Here's the disturbing part...
People around her started laughing at her or just stood there staring at her.
A drunk guy moves towards her and starts tugging her jeans off her.
I was furious, without thinking I moved over and shoved the guy over on to his ass. Girl's breathing was extremely shallow, so I picked her up and started pushing my way through the crowd.
Guy on ass gets up, miffed grabs a few buddies and confronts me, then looks at the passed out girl in my arms...
and laughs and his friends laughs...
I don't remember the comment he said, but if it wasn't for my friend (thank goodness for her good looking charms) there and a passed girl in my arms I would have exploded in his face, my friend distracts the guy and his friends, and I force my way outside.
Outside of the house.
My friend catches up with me quickly and has water, we had put down the girl with her head turned to the side, and started to wipe he head down with water. Her breathing started to normalize.
Eventually she regains conciousness, looking around.
We asked if she was ok, but she kind looks at us blankly
Here's the really sad part.
Her friends come over and ask where she was.
The 'passed' out girl gets on her feet and stumbles over muttering something and her friends looked over at us suspiciously.
We tried explaining the situation, but the girl and her friends laughed at the 'course of events' that transpired and proceeded to go back into the house.
I have a buddy who called me to come hang out at his ranch along the Red River at the Texas Border. The White Bass were in their spawning run and he knew a hot spot.
So we park and hike in throught the woods. Right as we got to the fishing hole, we see this massive fat white ass spitting out a turd as big as your forearm. The beast heard us and jumped up and pulled up its pants without even wiping.
Then it turned around and I saw it was a 300 lb. woman. Ugly to boot.
That was disturbing. I can still picture that log coming out of that monster butt.
That would be good if, for no other reason, perhaps it would reduce your insesant posting to the "Politics, God and Religion vs. Science" thread and give it a bit of a reprieve from bumping everything off the front page!
Just kidding, it's all good.
If what people post here "disturbs" you, don't read it. Pretty simple, bro!
My parents moved to Seattle from Canada, since that was were all the cheap lumber was at the time, and bought a lot split it in two, built houses sold them and repeated the process, etc., and for a while all was well. My brother and I were born there. I can recall the last house, and two of my young neighbors that I was closest to, "friends" I suppose you could call them.
One was a boy my age who, like myself, had just turned six the day we left Seattle. As a matter of fact, him & his father & mother came to visit and say fare well to myself and my parents the night we left Seattle to return to Canada!
What I remember most about him was his penchant to cause harm, to do evil! The kid was just hell bent on causing trouble, ruining, destroying things, and hurting people. He wasn't a formidable type of individual, a big bully type of kid, he was just the type of kid you would NOT turn your back on.
I must have been around him a lot, because his parents bought half of our lot and the house on it from my father and they were our next door neighbors. I recall one afternoon we (myself, him and his brother) had a babysitter & she decided to separate us into different rooms for the express purpose of our taking a nap. The memory I have of this is thinking, "Big mistake, he will be all alone." and that meant trouble. I mean, why would I, a 5 year old kid at the time, remember something as simple as that all these years? Why? Because the kid was that devious, that bad, that EVIL, even that young ... and it was that obvious to me. That is why!!
As I was leaving to go back home that day he showed me a hand full of 16 penny framing nails. I new what they were because my father was a carpenter and I use to pick them up whenever he dropped them as he was framing our homes, and collect a hand full before giving them back. Anyway, this kid was all excited about sticking them behind and in front of each tire of his dads car. Sure enough my mom informs, me the next day, that I won't be playing with him anytime soon because it flattened several of his dads tires!
There were many things like that. I would never have intentionally harm my parents or their property, on the contrary, I respected and loved them. I recall that he particularly despised his mother.
One other thing that happened which really stuck with me involved the other person that I said I have memories of, who was a girl our age. I remember the last time I recall seeing her (although there were probably more). She had a cast part way up her calf, had broken her ankle/leg. She was very pissed, just vehement towards him for pushing her down a flight of stairs behind her house. That is how she broke her leg. He had done various other very mean things to her. And there were many other instances, and I was very wary of him in general, he had done a lot of mean things to me. LIke I said, you couldn't turn your back on him. But those are just a couple to give you an idea. Like I said, I last saw him the night before we left, and I had just turned six years old, BUT, i never forgot that kid!!!
SO, jump forward to around 2001-2006! I followed the trial of the Green River Killer, off and on (like most peeps) and one day (actually it slowly came together) I realize that he was the close to my age. He was born in early Feb 1949, myself five months later. He had lived with his brother and parents in Renton, Washington (suburb of Seattle) so did we. In fact, that is where my father bought the lots and built the homes we had lived in.
So I started doing some checking and they had moved to Renton from Salt Lake city when He was very young and bought a house on 169th Street in Renton, Washington. Yikes, that was our street, the last house we lived in that my father had built was on that street. The house next door to the kid I just told you about.
Yep, as you probably guessed by now, he was the kid I just told you about. I checked the address of his mothers house (what he/they referred to it as) and it was RIGHT next door to our house. The lot that my father had split and sold to them.
CRAZY!!!
So, the quote at the beginning of this story, belongs to my sister who is five years older than me. I can understand her reasoning, eh?
CHILLING!!!
I also have a brother, five years my junior, who was born in Renton (actually that is where I was born) just before we left for Canada. Gary Ridgeway's first victim was a boy younger than him that he brutally stabbed and left for dead when he (GR) was 16. When he was asked why he did it, his answer was "I always wondered what it would be like to kill someone!"
ALWAYS!
Sheeeeet! If that's the case, then, he had been wondering what it wold be like to kill somebody when I new him (most likely) or shortly thereafter! I mean, think about it, that "kid" was convicted of killing 49 women, and has confessed to murdering close to 100 women! And, they suspect, probably many more!
YIKES!!!!!
So, I agree with my sister, "I'm glad we left there when we did."!!
edit: I (actually it's in our family collection) have a picture of me and GR standing behind the last house that my dad built on 169th Street. The house that was next door to his. Standing, posing for the picture my mother was taking of us. It has never been published. Hopefully I can find it and get it scanned, etc!
BTW, this is the first time I have discussed this, told this story to anyone, other than my younger brother and older sister!
Amazing story splitter. Wow. This makes me wonder what, if anything, one could do as a parent of a defective child.
We were very close friends with a family who has a defective son. I have no doubt he will spend his life in prison. While not as bad as GR was when young, there is clearly evil and violence it this kid, who was a premie and has been on heavy meds all of his life. His parents work so hard, trying new doctors, new schools, new meds, everything. It is heart breaking.
The worst part of all this, the boy will not be put away until *after* he harms or kills someone.
Disturbing event:
A man folding his parachute and wingsuit casually says "there s a hole in the wingsuit". Squamish august 2010- Dark Wizard.
I saw him fly a few times so indeed it was nt a problem but i remember my stomach rising into my throat wHen he said that.
Disturbing event:
A woman at Tennaya Lake asks if the plastic flower was in her hair when we topped 17 pitches of free solo. Well 16 pitches really , because i insisted on roping up on a wet pitch near the top. After the ascent she insists the descent should be a straight line because its already past 3 pm and she has to be in Los Angeles for dinner. She gets lost, puts both of us at risk, gets herself almost killed, waists 2 hours as she cannot find a path. Ffinal and ultimate nonsense, she complains that i did not notice when she lost the plastic flower that was in her hair. My advice to such people is : stay in LA.
It is hard to get a stare of a recently killed person out of your mind.
It was very disturbing to see a beheaded guy get wrapped up by the police/ambulance etc in the morning from a local 'bazar' (farmer's market type of thing) in Ukraine.
Saw a woman from a hiking church-type group take a 100'+ tumble down the slick rocks below the Mace in Sedona during a freak cold October rainstorm that turned most of the normal grooves down into actual waterfalls.
I scrambled down to find what I'd assume was a corpse to find her horribly mangled and broken body face-down in a fast running stream of cold water which was already stained red downstream of her. When I reached to pull her head out I'll never, ever forget her distorted and smashed face. Forehead all caved in, lip missing, teeth shattered.... etc.. Grim.
She had this rasping gasp for breath though once out of the water and I flipped her over to get her out of the cold water.. Even more disturbing since I assumed I was just with a corpse. I must admit I jumped...
Both femurs broken badly and folded back under her body. One had the jagged bone sticking out through the skin/pants with a steady gush of blood. One foot/boot was above her right shoulder.
Hung with her for a good hour and did what little I could. One other dude finally climbed down with me until the helicopter arrived and they got a litter up there.
She was actually talking a bit when not coughing up blood and goo. Kept saying her teeth hurt over and over. Her brain tried to reboot several times. She didn't seem to retain anything from one moment to the next.
I still don't know if she died once we got her on the copter.... I'd assume so.
Something you can’t get out of mind that keeps with you, like dreams that soon fade away but come back to make you remember every detail.
In ‘67 a few of us were on a search and destroy mission in Nam, locals were evacuated in choppers and anyone else told to leave the area. Took a couple of days till we were given the orders to go. There was six of use including myself carrying my M-60 machine gun nicknamed the "roach".
Can’t recall if it was one of those “bring/lite them up”, meaning bringing and smoking cigarettes: being out for 45 days to two months was normal for us,a "Wire Rat" or resupplies every two weeks. Some missions you did not smoke since the smell of the smoke can be carried miles as well as not bathing; everything taped down with duct tape so no noise. Your senses came surreal after the first week; you could smell and your hearing was excelled 300%.
So after the second day or third we came across a black pajama party. We hit three or four and then see this last one running like hell on the trail with rich patties to his left and to his right. The shot sequence was if as looking at a watch from 16:00 hrs. [4 AM/PM] to 22:00 hrs. [10 AM/PM]. So you set up your shooting pattern and in this case aiming just a few meters ahead so he will run into it, making a direct hit wasting no ammo or using less.
Also can’t recall if it was me or not but likely one of my team members with a CAR-15. Both having different hitting patterns and egress most likely the Car -15.
So he is running and at a good pace. A burst goes off in his direction and what we see when he gets hit is the top of head comes off from the neck and falls in the rice paddy to his right. What came next was a little bit strange for all of us: the body with his head gone was still running and at the same pace for a good 5 seconds till it fell in the left rice paddy.
We all laughed at the same time for a couple of seconds. The laughter wasn’t about fun it was about the absurdity/craziness of war. We took body count, checked for papers, maps, any intel, took all the rice and food then spread it out and made sure it could not be used for eating; one had a watch that I took since it can be used for communication.
When I looked at his hand it was still ticking; as soon as I took it off his wrist it stopped. I tapped on it to move the hour hand as well as the second or minute; they would not move, banged it a couple of times as well trying to make it work; still nothing. Figuring it was worthless was going to throw it but packed it and sent it home a few months later with the time being set at the time of the KIA and still trying it to move to no avail.
We then went on our merry way looking for another time.
What was scary or spooky when I finally found it 44 years later going through some boxes? Stay tuned.
This thread can be hard to read, and may be a possible trigger for some who have experienced trauma. Sharing is important... an opportunity to get things off your chest.
All those who share or respond, regardless of funny comments about Fox News, or an honest admission that the thread is simply hard to read, as it touches the heart and mind... all contributions should be respected, not judged. Honest opinions should be respected, as should the humor injected. Does the humor added to this thread also deserve a "Whatever"? I think not, in my humble opinion. It's acceptable to have an opinion, or the Taco wouldn't exist. Or Dr. F's ridiculous, never ending thread about politics.
My own personal experiences have taught me a lot about life, loss and taking advantage of each day we are given.
My contribution, besides defending a friend who has been kind enough to defend others is the following:
I watched my mother die right in front of me, at age 13. I didn't mourn her death until I was married and became a mother, in my 20's. Did that f*#k me up, of course it did. How could it not?! She was my mom, and moms are supposed to be "forever" in your life, esp at age 13. It was impossible to wrap my mind and heart around. I can now, today, as an adult who has healed, but that doesn't mean the image isn't vivid in my mind.
I cared for my grandmother and aunt while in-home hospice care was in place... watching a slow death that was impossible to ignore. Those are disturbing "events" I've witnessed. I take care of people, it's in my blood... doesn't mean it's easy. Since an "event" in late July, I've been taking care of myself and my heart like never before... I am at peace that I did the right thing.
Disturbing events I've BEEN in: Getting shot at on Speedway Blvd., at 1pm, on a Tuesday in Nov. 2011, because someone had road rage. This incident changed my life, at first, for the worst, then finally, for the better. The trial starts on Jan. 8th, and I look forward to bringing my shooter DOWN, not out of spite, but because what he did was wrong, and he could have killed me, or other individuals on the road that day.
Are my experiences the same as yours? Nope. Let us all learn from individual experiences and respect contributions, esp on THIS TOPIC. We are human. Simple as that.
I watched a guy fall off of the top of the Trapps a few years ago. He alnded headfirst on a boulder 40 ft away from us (my sister and I...she had been climbing less than 10 times). His head exploded like a pinata.
Okay, I might as well finish my story (about Gary Ridgeway) that is the "disturbing" part, or what kinda disturbed me(no longer does, i guess)!
So, like I said in my story, this kid (GR) and his father (not sure if his mom was there, i think she stayed home with his brother) show up the night our family bails from Seattle/Renton to go back to Canada. Everything is going just fine (between me and the kid/GR). I was rather surprised (as i recall) that he was acting like a normal kid, hadn't pulled some kind of sh#t on me. BUT, I couldn't get it out of my head that this was gonna be the last time I saw this guy, the LAST time I had to get even with him. Mind you, in all the time I new the little devil, not once did I EVER do anything mean to him. Just wasn't in my nature, i guess. BUT, that night I did.
We were in this stairway/stairwell that led upstairs, and I could here my dad and his dad talking, etc! Everything was super mellow. They must of given the kid a tranquilizer or whatever. But, like I said, I new it was then or never, so I sent one of my dad's shoes really hard down the railing (we were playing slide and catch with it) and it KO'd him, nailed him in the nose and all this blood comes gushing out. I got my ass whipped good and sent to my room by my father, and I new that I would (seriously)! But it was well worth it, imo! The kid had caused me that much sh#t in my short life.
So, I have always wondered (or since I put it all together) was the kid he first tried to off (kill) the 6 year old boy he stabbed a dozen or more times and left for dead when he was 16, supposed to represent ME? Was it an act of revenge, or whatever? Because I was only 6 years old when I last saw him, the night I "got even"!
EDIT: Leggs - Good Luck, in regards to the trial and bringing that jerk "DOWN"!! Teach the d00d a lesson and hopefully prevent him from pulling the same crap on someone else!!
I grew up next to two brothers a couple years younger than me. One was my best friend until we moved away when I was 12 or so. He was totally normal. His brother however, a year or so younger, I'm POSITIVE is a serial killer somewhere.
He used to love to torture and kill things. He also collected roadkill and kept all his dead trophies in the woods. He had a hollow aluminum arrow he showed me when he was much older that he called "Lamprey". It was essentially a barbed and sharp hollow tube he would fire into something to watch it bleed out. I remember being around 14 or so when he showed me the arrow... The hair kinda stood up on the back of my neck.
I wonder how many of us have been close to evil and never known it...
"Bless me, Father, for I have sinned.
My last confession was, well, a long time ago.
I take an inordinate 'satisfaction' in killing ants.
Nothing else, just ants. But not our native ants, just
those illegal immigrant Argentines."
There was something I couldn’t understand about these movies, the people that watch them loved it and the sequels. Never saw the TV series plus they made a game you can play as well.
In the 2010 remake of the original film, Freddy is reimagined as a pedophile who had sexually abused the teenage protagonists of the film when they were children. When their parents found out, they set him on fire and killed him.
In 2010, Freddy won an award for Best Villain (or Most Vile Villain) at the Scream Awards.
Fictional character I guess, wonder what would happen when reality took over and see if they scream for more.
Seen worse that was just one incident: didn’t bother me, I have no ghosts but might have let one out with the watch.
Comes with the territory plus one doesn't have to go back to the past to see what goes on today and in the future.
A hypothetical question, related to a friends disturbing experience. If you rendezvoused with a new climbing partner (of opposite gender) and parttime exhibitionist, in Utah, to start a multi month roadtrip only to find, when he loaded his worldly
possessions, including his dog, into your car, that he was financing his part of the trip by selling a felony worth of weed 'n shrooms along the way, that he had also loaded into your car; with no prior mention, or consent, on your part, would you;
1) boot his ass out?
2) enjoy being high since at any minute you might be in
Prison?
3) go with it?
4) ever trust him again?
5. Run off with the dog?
Okay, here is a story/situation that I got myself into around 19 years ago. I am having second thoughts about sharing it, because I am not proud of the final outcome (my not taking action/notifying the police) even though it probably wouldn't have made any diference (but perhaps could have). It was a circumstantial, or hearsay situation, but it came straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. Read my story and tell me what you would have done, or what you think I should hve done. Here is that story...
I moved up to San Jose in the Fall of 1992 to pursue a degree at SJSU. I ended up living in my camper van for those two years rather than rent an apartment, because housing was very high there. It wasn't that bad since I generally parked right next to the college, and they had an excellent gym with an olympic size pool where i could shower and work out. Plus, i spent a lot of time in the library and around school etc.!
While at school, I would generaly move my van every other day, or sometimes everday/night. Early on I took notice of this one house (old Victorian two story/there are allot of those in downtown SJ) which was located on one of the side streets next to the college. Actually, what caught my attention was the characters that lived and visited there. They just stood out in a peculiar way. I couldn't quite put my finger on it initially, just something very different in their dispositions. I recall thinking at first that they were some very dedicated or serious minded white supremasist/skinheads, or whatever. But they didn't necessarly fit that particular type because their clothing and hairstyles varied somewhat, among other things (although some may have leaned that way).
I began to notice one predominate trait (over the two years of on and off parking next to or near their house). That was that they NEVER smiled, never even joked around! It was something that stood out. They just seemed to have a very sullen, even dark and bordering on a sinister attitude. So I just wrote it off as some fringe group or whatever.
They were mostly young (late teens to early twenties), and the one dood who seemed to be either their leader, or at least the person who seemed to be in control of the house and the majority of the conversations, etc, was around 24/25. There were probably 5-6 people living there, plus they got a lot of visitors and people hanging out in front.
So, fast forward to my very last day of school (Dec. '94) and the morning of my last final of the semester that I graduated. I just happend to park right in front of their house that morning because, for one reason, it was close to where my class was where I had the final (@11:00). I wanted to study/cram up until the last moment, so I got there early (around 8:00am).
People were in and out of the house all morning as usual (always seemed to have a lot of people coming and going, or hanging out) so I wasn't really paying any attention. Until, right around 10:30, or so, the one main dood comes out of the house and starts talking to this guy who had just arrived.
I was sitting on my bed in the rear of my van, so they couldn't see me (i didn't have a window van). It probably looked like I had just parked there and went to school (like the majority of the vehicles & their occupants on that street) since they could see that there was nobody in the front two seats.
I had the top vent on the van open and the windows cracked (for ventilation) and could pretty much here everything they were saying. But like I said, I was focused on studying for the final/craming in everything i could. UNTIL, I heard a shift in their conversation which it took a VERY dark and eerie nature.
By then, they had positioned themselves to where they were leaning against my vans side door (i could VERY clearly hear them). I mean, it was like I was standing right next to them and they didn't have a clue that I was there (in there).
This became obvious when their conversation shifted to some VERY dark stuff. It became evident that they were practicing Satanist, I will just leave it at that. But that wasn't was what necessarily shocked or disturbed me (answered some of the questions i had though). Suddenly their conversation took on a this sort of guarded tone in which the one guy (late teens/early twenties) seemed to be trying to pry something out of the "head dood/leader". It went something like this...
Head Dood: "We used the ceremonial knife with the pentagram on the handle." (he described it as being very old, etc).
Guy/Teen: says something about "the baby" (i forget).
HD: (i will NEVER forget exactly what he said) "It was a boy. We dumped him in a lake in the Seirra's."
There was more, regarding the ritual or whatever (it's been a long time) and more discussion about the "ceremonial knife", its importance, the culture it came from/was related to, etc.!
It was a rather long and drawn out conversation in that they would talk about something very general and unrelated (like, for example, what music they listened to or some mutual aquaintance/friend or whatever) and then they would come back to these specific details regarding this gathering/ritual that took place. The main dood was feeding this guy bits and pieces, here and there. Shocking, to say the least. Their tone, their seriousness, the way it was discussed, etc, left me with NO doubt that it was true and actually happened.
SO, there I was, half in shock in regards to what I was hearing, and wanting to get the hell out of there, but also mesmerized by what i was hearing. And I also wanted to get as much info as i could, a name perhaps, or whatever to pass on to authorities. Plus I was also waiting (hoping) for them to wrap it up and leave without them discovering I was sitting right there, privy to everything they had just revealed (a friggin murder/child sacrifice).
BUT, they didn't leave, or at least not before I had to leave. I waited tell the very last minute (about 10:58) and by then I had NO choice. I couldn't miss that final (and moving and finding other parking was scarce by then). If I missed that final, that would have been it. I was getting either an A or a B (don't recall, but never I got lower than a B) but if you missed the final you couldn't get anything above a D, which meant you would have to take the class over, which also meant I wouldn't graduate and would have to take the class over the following semester.
I mean, this was a F'n serious situation and I new it. THINK ABOUT IT. These guys just described this freakin hideous/nightmarish scenario that one of them was involved in, and here I am gonna pop out of this van that they were leaning on and had NO clue that I was in. Plus, if I made it out of there in one peace, I had to leave my van and then return for it in about an hour. That would give them plenty of time to come up with a Plan B (way to eliminate me, or F'N kidnap me or friggin interogate me) or get some backup, or whatever. In the very least, they had my van description and liscence plate #!
SO, what I decided to do was; 1) look as nonchalant as I could be (look like i was oblivious to what was just discussed between them). 2) put on my headphones to my Walkman (i had one of those yellow Sport Walkmans) and crank up the music real loud so they would perhaps think that I had been listening to the music all that time and couldn't hear what they were saying. And 3) I new that I was going to have to make eye contact and in the process maintain a VERY, like I said, nonchalant/oblivious air/look. Plus, I new that the person I had to make eye contact with was the HD (head dood/leader, or whoever he was).
So, at the last possible moment I pop open the van sliding side door. As it was, the HD guy was leaning on the friggin door and he was totally caught off guard. I mean you should have seen the look of shock and disbelief on his face. I felt as though I kept it pretty cool, casual, nonchalant. 0h yeah, I didn't have any chewing gum, but I decided to make it look like I was chewing some. Somehow, under the circumstances, I felt as though it would help me cover/mask the way I was really feeling (my facial expression). So I concentrated on chewing some nonexsistant gum, which helped me deal with some otherwise fake neutral expression I was going to have to present with. That was how I dealt with it anyway.
It happened very quik, plus I caught them completely off guard. I was off and down the street towards the school before they could come to their senses. Not sure what they did, I didn't look back, I just kept walking.
When I got back my van was sitting there like I had left it (i kinda thought it would have a flat tire or the wiring might have been messed with to delay my get away or whatever). It started right up and I headed out of town, out of San Jose for good.
I was looking in the rear view mirrors and expecting to see someone following me. Or at least wathing to see where i was going (living) or if I was going to go to the police station or whatever. And I did agonize over that, and I now believe i should have. There was more to the story (more details, etc) that i have since forgotten. But nothing that could pinpoint the exact spot where they dumped the kid (name of the lake, etc) he just said "in the Sierra's"! And I'm sure he got rid of the knife, or would have sometime soon after I popped out of the van (if it was in his house) because he did go into some specific details besides the petagram on the handle (described the blade & the specific area/style it was, etc) and seemed as though he/they were fond of it and still had it.
But it all came back to me (or what I can now recall) early this morning. So I decided to share it here. I guess to kind of get it off my chest/shoulders (or hope it would help some). Not that it bothers me that much anymore, i haven't thought about it in a long while. Actually I did bring it up on some thread here on ST about a year or two ago, but ended up deleting it the next day (no one commented on it, and it was kind of off topic). It is not a very comfprtable topic to discuss.
I have had a lot of strange situations of this nature (as you probably have noticed by some of the stories I have told). I must say that I wonder how & why me, at times. Like I have said, it has been a long strange trip.
And like I said, I now wish that I would have reported them/this to the SJPD. I guess I figured that they probably wouldn't have done anything (or thought I was a nut case). I mean what could they do? It would have just been my word against theirs. But I did have the address and the discription of the one head dood guy, and they probably would have at least kept an eye on the place & perhaps him. Oh well...
You've got a lot of good stories splitter. Babies don't disappear every day, and I wonder if it was a baby animal of some kind they sacrificed. You'll never know. It's not a crime to not report a crime, so don't worry about that part. Plus whatever happened the police would have considered you a suspect and you'd have wished you'd never gotten involved.
but i never looked at it that way. i seemed to be certain of it at the time. there were other things they said and the way they discussed it. regardless, why would they go through the trouble of throwing the body of some animal in some remote Sierra lake? i can't recall the specifics (what the other guy asked), but he was making a point/assured him that it would never be found. like i said, there is a lot that i don't recall, that i can no longer play back in my mind. in fact, i was surprised when i went to write it up this morning, since i only wanted to use specific statements that i could recall/quote, and i could only came up with a couple. just as well, i guess.
as far as the missing child goes, this (Satanism) is an age old "religion", they have ways around that. for instance, it wouldn't be missing if it wasn't documented (birth). i mean, if they were hard core (and these guys sounded like they were) they would probably use what they refer to as a "breeder". obviously, it's a very underground religion.
like i said, this isn't a comfortable subject, and there really isn't much point in talking about it...on any level...past, present, or future. churches don't even discuss it (or very rarely do). because it is so dark, and your going DEEP into the enemies (Church speak) territory / religion ... and sh#t happens (when you do that). plus, there is nothing that can be done about it, regardless of the tense. it has been going on for a long, long time. it is documented throughout the Bible.
not sure why i even brought it up, other than i thought about it again for the first time in a long while. and, it was INDEED disturbing. very odd also, in regards to the timing, right before my last final/last day in San Jose. i suppose i was fortunate in those regards, since i probably wouldn't have slept so well in my van (nor parked so close to the campus) from that point on. very eerie, to say the least.
as far as they may possibly have suspected me. never considered that. not that it would have bothered me. i would have done my part by reporting it, that was my only concern/regret.
It's true, you can sit there and watch someone commit a crime while the victim begs you for help, and you don't have to help, and don't have to ever tell anyone - it's not a crime unless you help the person, or help them hide from the police, or something like that. Sounds terrible but making people criminally responsible when they are only observers leads to other issues.
There is no statute of limitations for murder, and the police could probably figure out who lived there then, but the odds of solving the crime now seem pretty low. There would be nothing left of the remains dumped in a lake. But I bet this was the only baby abducted and the mother probably thinks it was an illegal adoption. I would let it rest.
I really haven't had any up close disturbing encounters. I guess the one that sticks with me is from the late 70's. It was 77 or so and I was on NA Wall. A team of three were bailing from the Nose. I remember following their raps as I was hanging in slings belaying. I turned away for a bit and when I looked again they were no where to be found. I learned later when we topped out that it was a team of three Minnesotan's who plunged to their deaths. They had only been clipping into the chains on the stations, not directly to the bolts. Bolt popped and they all slid off the chain. Sad
Marty, when I saw a base jumper die on el cap it was kind of like that. No sound when she landed or any indication of anything going on down at the base. You're just too far away to hear and see it.
I work in hospitals all over CA and NV and see disturbing stuff all the time. The least of which is pale, obese people with pale, obese children bringing their sick, pale, obese family member McDonald's while they are in a hospital bed... and I see that constantly. Also disturbing is that we are slowly making hospital chairs, toilets and wheelchairs twice as wide to accommodate the awful future of humanity instead of trying some more serious proactive decisions.
You can be charged. Didn't you watch the last episode of Steinfield?
LOL
Not worried about being charged, since I'm not guilty of anything. Other than not reporting something I heard two people discussing, whom would have denied (2 to 1) that they even said it/or were just kidding (or whatever). I mean, I was pretty aware by that point in my life how reporting such a story would turn out. Just look at the McMartin, etc., case. And I seriously doubt that they could actully do or would have done anything about it. But then I suppose I will always have my doubts.
By "breeder" I was refering to a woman that is either in their own coven, or another coven that gets pregnant and gives birth specifically for that purpose (for a scheduled sacrifice). I wasn't refering to an "adopted" or "kidnaped" baby. But who knows where they got it, they didn't say. And like I said, they also didn't say what lake it was, just that they went out of their way to dispose of it there. So they couldn't have found and dragged or scuba searched the lake. But i suppose I still should have said something. I am generally a person of action.
Anyway, since I'm on the topic, here is another similar one from my even more distant past.
I lived in Mammoth from the Fall of '74 to the Spring of '82. I met this guy my very first win ter there, because he was one of the waiters/bartenders (forget which/i think he did both) at this well known restraunt in Mammoth (smaller restraunt). He worked there the whole time that I lived in Mammoth, and for at least several years after.
He was very friendly. Always had a big smile when ever a ran into him in town or on the mountain, etc! He had a one steady girlfriend the whole time. He was about my age (24) when I moved there. I also new about 4-5 of his close friends on a first name basis. Had spent afternoons or evenings at a mutual friends place with them over the years. They weren't reallyh the type of people that I would seek out as good friends, would want to necessarily hang with or go skiing with on a regular basis, but I got along okay with them on an acquaintance sort of level.
Anyway, one summer I pack up and move back to San Diego (around 79/8o). So did my/our mutual friend. I didn't really hang with him here in SD much, since we mainly had skiing in common. But I did go and visist him a couple of times.
So this one time I go to visit him up in Leucadia/Encinitas, this guy & his girfriend are visiting him also. They had taken off from Mammoth to take this trip down thru Mexico and stopped by his place on their way back to Mammoth. They were already there when I arrived.
Long story short, we have this intense encounter. First off, there was no way that they could have known I was a Christian. I know I didn't tell them, and my friend didn't know. And from about the time I was 19 to about 32+ years old, I told NO one I was a Christian. I was, but nobody had a clue. In fact, they probably would have been shocked, or had some serious doubts if I had admited that I was. It's called "back slidden" (church speak) lol!
So I show up at my friends place and my friend and him are in his livingroom and their two girlfriends are down on the beach (he lived in a condo on the beach). Everything is going fine for the first few minutes, I had told him I had bailed from Mammoth and had no intentions of ever returning.
So after a bit the three of us go down to the beach (he lived on a bluff overlooking the beach). As I walk up his dog, a big St. Bernard, takes one look at me and lets out this ferocious growl and leaps from his sitting position and takes this loud jaw snapping bite/snip at my neck. I mean it went for the jugaler, but it stopped just short, like less than an inch. I mean it was sending me a message.
It didn't scare me, just sorta pissed me off. I mean the dog could see that I was with its master as we approached, in fact I was between him and my friend. Very wierd. I just told him I wasn't afraid of any dog, and that it better not try it again. Not sure what i was gonna do, but I was gonna at least go down fighting. I didn't say it in an overly harsh or confron tin g way, I just simply said it like I meant it. No big deal.
What also pissed me off was the look on his face when the dog jumped and snapped at me. It looked as if something dawned on him. He simply looked at the dog and thenlooked at me with this sinister look. It all happened right as we got there, and was over in seconds. I mean iwasn't even that close to the dog. He was closest, I was maybe 3-4 feet behind him. Totally uncalled for.
So I barely get my warning out of my mouth and Tim (his name) blurts this, "Your God isn't the only god in in the universe!"
WTF???
I mean out of the blue. And the dood is just SEETHING!!!
He went totally ballistic. Kept repeating it over and over, was challenging me, etc! He went on to say that he was a Satanist, tarted bragging (for lack of a better word) about him being a high priest, etc and all this other sh#t, of this coven in Mammoth for all these years. Turns out these other peeps/friends of his that I mentioned are also. I mean these guys were hard core worshippers. And he went tottally off on me about it. I mean I have never confronted nor seen such seething hatred for another human being, and it was directed at me. His girlfriend simply stood up and just glared at me. I didn't say a damn thing. I couldn't believe what was happening.
So, he finishes his rant and packs up and splits for Mammoth, pronto. Cut his stay at the beach and their visit with our friend on the spot (eviden tly they were planning on staying a few days longer). An d evidently he didn't want to be anywhere near me.
Extremely wierd. My friend agreed. He was as blown away as I was.
As it turned out, I decided to return to Mammoth that Fall because Iscored this night parking crew job (only person on parking crew at night). It was a cruz job because there wasn't a damn car in the parking lot at night. I just sat in the office or played hackeysack with the cleaning crew (i had worked nightcrew/janitor for the prior few seasons), or pigged out in the cfeteria. And I got off at 11:00 and could ski all day. I was mainly there in case it snowed, in which case i would make sure no one left their care in the parking lot and therefore blocked the snow plows.
But here is what is disturbing that I wanted to share with everyone. There was this young black kid that this group (coven or whatever) had befriended. He worke in a small restraunt jus down the street from this Tim guy (not really sure how they met). So one night all of them (or at least 5-6) and this young black kid (about 19-20/he had just moved to Mammoth) were down at Hotcreek one night (just them, no one else). So the next day the story comes out in the paper (and all over town) that the kid ends up dead.
Here is what they said happened...
They said that the kids dog fell into one of the hot pools, and he went in after it and they both died.
HUH????
I had personally been to Hotcreek many of times. Had brought my own dog (Golden Retriever) and my two good friends had brought their two German Shepards and all three of them stayed WAY clear of those scalding hot pools. Dogs just have the good sense to not go anywhere near those pools. Plus there are always a lot of dogs down there (or where back then before it was closed). I NEVER heard of a dog falling into one, let alone dying as a result of that.
And even so, who would be dumb enough to jump in after one, because it would obviously be a hopeless situation/suicide.
I had SERIOUS doubts as to what happened, although I suppose it could have.
BTW, one guy and two girls (girl/boyfriend & the two girls tight) worked at the main lodge where i worked. All were low level (medium level, at best) but year round employees. I had a few extremely strange encounters with them that winter. It was as if they had never known me, and got very wierd when we were in close contact with each other (particularly when we were alone). I don't think I could adequately describe it, and you probably wouldn't believe me if I could anyway. But, simply put, they were extremely uncomfortable and became very agitated in my presence. This may sound wierd, but I seriously felt as though a couple of these peeps were possesed, the way the were reacting. I never said a thing to them, wasn't much to be said on my part.
edit: hey, like i said, both of these stories happened a long time ago, and nothing of that nature has happened since. Except my story about the three times in the middle of the night that I was awoken by this dark presence that paid me a visit (on the ghost thread). If you brecall (if you read my three posts) "I new that there was something standing at the foot of my bed before I even opened my eyes." I mean I sat bolt upright from a very sound sleep three times in a row that night. And like I said, it was this dark presence that was as if ALL the evil in the whole universe was condensed into it. And like I said, I had absolutely no fear.
But that's another thread. I still haven't finished my third encounter with it (here's a clue, it was NOT a "ghost" ... much more sinsister than that). BTW, I had NO doubt precisely whom it was after its third and final visit that eveining. He made that very clear. Perhaps I will get around to finishing that story on the "Ghosts" thread one of these days. VERY heavy! And I must admit, I was a bit scared (probably a bit of an understatement) by the time that third visit was over. I certainly didn't return to sleep like I had done the first two times.
Like I have said, "It's been a long strange trip..."!
EDIT: I was just thinking, maybe I could get my own reality TV show. Call it something like, "Spend the weekend camping in a graveyard (or wherever) with Splitter". LOL
MartyG - I recall that accident, I was living on the eatside and frequenting the Valley at that time (was either there, or arrived a day or two later). Evidently they were raping the Rorh bolt route after bailing from the Nose, and were cutting lose their haulbag from each rap point (letting it fall the full 165 ft to the end of the haul line. And it broke one of the bolts (or a hanger actually i think) and it slashed the 1" tubular webbing that they were all hanging from. Very tragic. BTW, probably a good thing that you just happened to turn away at the last moment. But extremely disturbing none the less.
Seeing Peter Croft actually fall on Swept Away sometime in the 90's...Looked like he was guiding. Fell at the crux. Muttered something about "effing slabs"....
Man Splitter! I never know what you're going to talk about and it always has me glued to the screen with questions to think about afterwards. It really hasbeen a long strange trip! I know Mine has and I haven't had those events you' e had.
Marty I remember that accident too. I was in the valley just after. What I heard was what sitter said, they clipped around the chain etc....
So, another disturbing thing I've only been second hand witness to, is the phenomena that inspired the billion rising event the other day.
One out of three women have or will be raped or severely beaten in their lifetime. That is staggering! almost impossible to comprehend!
I known now and have know women who have been raped and some, fewer, that have been severely beaten. But if that is the statistic, I know a lot more of both than I think.
And so do you!
That, is truly disturbing!
If one in three women are the victims, what is the rate out of the total population, of the perpetrators? We must all know them as well!
That's disturbing in it's own way.
You obviously know little about me, other than what I revealed on this one post. At least I was honest about it.
Like I said, "I consider myself as a person of action." ... not one of indeiference. For instance, perhaps you haven't read any of the approximately three threads on which I shared my story about how, at about 21 or 22 years old (forget) I took an evening walk with a couple friends and about a block from my house, as we were turning the corner, we smell/get a brief wiff of smoke. We couldn't tell what or where it was coming from (fire or chimney) so we continued on.
Just as we reached the last house on the block, this man (about 30) come flying out of the side door of his house/kitchen. It was as if an explosion of flames shotrocketed him out. He ran the few steps to the curb. His shirt was burt off of him and as he lean ed to sit down, ALL the skin of his right hand, arm and shoulder dripped off into a big puddle next to the curb. I was right there at his side. He just looked ( a pleading look) up into my eyes and said, "My baby is in there." That was all he said. But it was obvious what he was implying, asking.
I ran around to the front door and grabbed the handle (it was very hot) that should have been a clue to what happened next (as i opened it) a blast of heat and smoke and flame literally blasted me back into my two friends knocking them and me flat on our ass. I am pretty certain that is what burned all the hair off my face (i had no eyelashes, eybrows, knosehair, sideburns, etc. after that, and gave me 1st and 2nd degree burns on my face. Fortunately I was wearing a relatively heavy sheaphearders coat (it was late Oct/early Nov).
Dark smoke was pouring out of the door. You couldn't see a damn thing. It was down to about 21/2 to 3 ft off the floor. I had to crawl on my stomach and then hands and knees into that inferno.
I recall it being so hot that I couldn't breath through my nose. I had to take these tiny sips through my clenched teeth, and could barely squint. The carpet was hotter than hell. I ended up with blisters not only on my hands, neck and ears, but on my knees that were covered in my levi jeans.
You have NO CLUE how hot it was in there. I just kept going deeper and deeper into the living room and towards thw hall way. The smoke was slowly lifting to about half way up the wall, but the fresh air was obviously giving more oxygin to the situation. Things were starting to explode ito flame (lamps and things) without any actual flames touching them yet.
I don't want to seem like some macho brave dood by saying this all the time, but I had zero fear. Actually, I don't think people sense fear in those situations. Thinking about them in the middle of the night when you wake up in a cold sweat thinking about it (later on) maybe, but not while it is happeneing, your too focused on what you are trying to accomplish (or whatever you call it). I just had one thing on my mind ... there was a "baby" in there, and I wasn't gonna come out of there without it.
Anyway, I made to the hall and part way down it, I see this woman crouched against the wall holding this budle wrapped in a blanket (or somethign) I firgured it was the kid. She had her eyes closed and looked like she just gave up, or something. I don't remember saying anything (i may have) but suddenly she opened her eyes (when I was a 2-3 ft from her).
She gave me this very odd look. Like, what is this guy doing crawling across my floor. Then it looked like she came to her senses (remebered what was going on) and she jumped out and ran past me into the livingroom and out the door (with the baby in her arms).
I followed.
She collapsed on the front lawn. I don't think she recovered (woke up) for at lest a week. She almost didn't make it. Was on life support, etc! But I do remember that she was released about 3 weeks later (primarily smoke inhalation). The baby was released the next day (no damage done). The man was in the burn unit for about two weeks, and then was released.
I didn't go to the hospital, probably should have. It was 1972 (maybe '71) and if you didn't have money, you didn't go to the hospital unless you were CERTAIN you were dying (at lest my family didn't).
The ambulance got their awithin 5 minutes after we exscaped. The livingroom and hallway exploded into flame within a minute or two after we got out. The whole place burnt to the ground. It was a VERY good thing that we got out exactly when we did and no later.
I really didn't think that much of my part in the whole thing. The kid next door, evidently told everyone what happened (they stayed outside). I cetainly didn't consider myself a hero. Not that it made any diferent one way or another. I was just happy that the kid got out.
But, about 15-20 years later we are all gathered together as a family (for some occasion) and evidently one of our guests brought up some story that includied or perhaps concluded with that title (hero) don't recall what it was about. And my older sister blurted out "John is a hero." I didn't have a clue what she was referring too. Then she told the story. I hadn't really seen it that way. I hadn't carried them out in my arms or whatever. But I did open the front door and that caused the smoke to lift enough that she got a breath of air (perhaps) and came too for a moment and could see, and find her way out. Otherwise they probably both would have died.
Besides, I think there a VERY few people in this world that, if they had looked into that mans eyes and saw what i saw and heard what I heard him say, "MY BABY IS IN THERE." That wouldn't have done exactly what I did. I know I couldn't have lived with myself if I hadn't have given it 100%. I mean who wouldn't have? There was an innocent baby in there. Could you have just let it die? You don't need to answer, I know you would have. besides (should anyone have any doubts about themselves) you weren't there so wouldn't really know what I'm talking about. In a hypothetical situation you might have to wonder about it (have some doubts). In a real situation it is much diferent. In my opinion (having experienced it) it would be MUCH better to die trying, then to have not given it your all.
edit: the baby in my other story was already gone. There was nothing I could have done in that respect. They should have been brought to justice, but I doubt that would have happened. regardless, I do now regret not trying. I have NO fear of Satanist (no Satan). Whatever what I would have done, it wouldn't have stoped that coven and their wicked ways. But I will have to live with it (my indiference, if you want to call it that).
EDIT: Sorry for "spraying" about this (house fire) once again (4th time on ST i think). But I had to defend myself (insecure me, lol). The last time was on the Airplane thread, and there was definitely a "spraying" aspect to it, plus i was OT (way off topic) obviously. Someone rubbed it in my face the next day (p0sted that I was "spraying"). But I had been up/awake for 7 days in a row with zero sleep. an immediate family member suddenly died and I took it kind of hard/couldn't sleep (i live by myself). I found solice (of sorts) by lurking and posting here on ST. Or at least it took my mind away from the tragic events of that past week. I can't recall exactly why i told this story again then (on the Airplane thread/the 3rd time) But i wasn't thinking to clearly by then (that's my excuse anyway). I didn't tell anyone here about the death (well i told two people by email). I tend to keep things like that to myself.
Having my father die in my arms at age 13 was disturbing. Being in combat as a Marine is still disturbing. Right now I'm adjusting to my buddy being t-boned by a texting driver, killing his 10 year old son.
I use to live on El Nopal(across from the Magnolia Boulders). One morning i was riding my bike, returning from the store and this F-15/16 goes sailing by just clearing the houses and crashes into the side of the hill about a block away.
About ten years later I was living a few miles away just under the flight path for planes returning to Gillespie Field. Planes would fly over about every fifeteen minutes. Got pretty use to it. One morning I heard this incredible roar, the planes at Gillepie are limited to smaller personal/commercial craft. It sounded like a jet liner was making some sort of emergency landing and I new something tragic was about to happen. It was shaking the houses and sounded like thunder.
I lept up and shot out the front door just in time to see another big navy jet come sailing directly over our house...upside down with the cockpit open and no one in it. The roar was deafening(must have had its afterburners on)and the airport was about 4-5 blocks away on the other side of a freeway and I was certain this beast wasn't going to make it(crash into houses).
As i jumped into my car, I heard a huge explosion and was expecting the worse. It turned out that it did make it to the airfield before crashing, but killed and maimed a few guys on the ground.
Rather "disturbing" event...
I saw both of those too from the other side of El Cajon, the second went right over my head. I saw the PSA flight 182 crash in North Park too.
^^^ that was me/one of my earlier posts (forgot that i posted about that).
Both jets were on auto-piolet, the piolets had ejected/bailed some moments before (didn't see them or their canopies/cutes).
The "El Nopal" crash was in the late Spring/early summer of 1979 and occured while I was visiting my parents. Evidently the piolet, before he ejected, programed it to avoid the hundreds of tract homes and go in at this hill right next to us. Extremely close call. It was a real eye opener. Fortunately no one was hurt.
The second one was in the Spring of '86, and like I said, i lived Pepper Dr. in El Cajon, which is right uner the flight path (incoming) for planes landing a Gallispie field. I was very accostomed to having various sized small private planes fly over us (about every 15 minutes) and the occassional Lear jet. But this thing sounded like some Jumbo 747 (way to large for Gillepie Field) coming in, and obviously in BIG trouble and for some reason it had to dith (or crash) in El Cajon. I mean there was this deafening roar and the whole house was shaking off of its hinges.
I ran outside and looked up jus as it was coming over the top of our house. But it wasn't a Jumbo Jet, it was a Navy F16 (or whatever). Like I said, the canopy was open with no one in it. The two pilots had gotten into trouble and bailed out over the middle of El Cajon (over 100,000 population then).
They had zeroed it in on Gelespie field, which was about 1/2 of a mile down the road. There were solid rows of houses, and a middle school where my brother was teaching at, between where I was and there. It looked as if I could almost reach up and touch it, but it was probably about 50 ft to a 75 feet above me (surreal). I new it was trying to make the airport, but I was certain that it wasn't going to make it. Just seconds later I heard this tremendous explosion. I jumped into my car and took off towards the crash. I was expecting the worse, but hoping that it at least missed the school (it went directly over it).
To my surprise it cleared all the houses and crashed into the runway and skidded into these hangers killing a couple guys and maiming others. Very tragic. One piolet landed safely, but his partner got hung up got hung up in some high wires/tower and broke his neck. He died the next day. My cousin was his nurse in the ICU at Sharpe Hospital. She came over the next day and told us about it. He was fully concious and, she, of course, spoke with him (very sad).
BORN UNDER A BAD SIGN
LOL!
I have never looked at it that way. BUT, I have at times felt like I have had the "curse of Cain" put on me, lol. After he killed his brother Abel, he was made to roam the earth, and God put a mark on him that warned everyone who he was and that whomever killed him would have 10 fold the bad sh#t happen to them that happened to Cain (to paraphrase it). Or, like God told Satan (in regards to Job) you can do anything you wish to him, but you can't take his life (YIKES). Or perhaps a mix of the two (sorta) but an individual uniqueness to it.
Just kidding of course (but not entirely, b'cuz i haven't shared even a 1/4 of the crazy things I've experienced).
So, another disturbing thing I've only been second hand witness to, is the phenomena that inspired the billion rising event the other day. One out of three women have or will be raped or severely beaten in their lifetime. That is staggering! almost impossible to comprehend! I known now and have know women who have been raped and some, fewer, that have been severely beaten. But if that is the statistic, I know a lot more of both than I think. And so do you!
That, is truly disturbing!
If one in three women are the victims, what is the rate out of the total population, of the perpetrators? We must all know them as well! That's disturbing in it's own way.
Thank you for this. I spend a lot of time helping women vets who have been assaulted and sometimes their stories just totally break my heart. As a woman who has experienced it personally, I feel I need to be open with my story so that maybe someone can feel comfortable asking for help. It's very difficult sometimes but It's worth it. The Megan's Law website is REALLY disturbing, especially since they can only list the convicted people. Misogyny is so subtlety pervasive in our society. Sometimes I just stand in shock upon hearing some things that come out of peoples mouths, especially when its a woman.
Also, when I see a parent screaming in anger at their kid pisses me the fu.ck off. I have been known to approach these people and tell them exactly my opinion.
Your right I don't know you. I'm sure if we met we'd get along. That vid wasn't meant as an attack on you for your actions. It was more food for thought. Plus I happen to really like that movie. As far as me having no idea how hot the inside of a burning structure is that's not true. You don't know me either so there is no way you could have known that I spent 7 years as a municipal firefighter. I've been in more than a few structure fires. I know EXACTLY how hot it was in there. Going in the way you did is commendable. I'd like to think that most people would have done the same as you but I honestly don't know if that's true. Putting yourself in harms way on purpose just isn't the way most people are wired. Every time I did my job it was with training and protective gear.
The Dept that I worked for had a policy of no entry without a hose line first. Firefighter safety is the first priority or at least it's supposed to be. So we roll up on a working structure fire. Three of us are on the engine. When we get there the father comes up and says his middle son is missing. Three people isn't enough to pull a line and do a primary search. The next truck is still four minutes out. My buddy and I made the decision to break protocol in less then a second. We ask the father where the kids room is and he says second floor.
So we enter the building and start the search. It's a two story house and the fire started on the first floor in the living room. The heat is intense and the fire is already working it's way up the stairs. I look at my buddy and signal that we need to get up there now. We both know on our way up that by the time we finish the search the stairs will be fully engulfed and are primary exit will be cut off. We head up.
We do start the search and don't find anything. It's these moments that you always second guess yourself. Maybe we missed him. We search again. Now the fire is fully rolling. We start to make are way down the hallway that is over the living room. The floor is saggy and feels like it could go at any minute. Pushing on as fast as we can we complete the secondary search and still nothing. We only have about five minutes of air left before our tanks are empty. All the second floor starts to flash over. We haul ass over to the opposite side of the second floor and close the door.
By this time the second engine has arrived and the rest of our guys are pulling a hose line into the house. They start suppression efforts from below which pushes a ton of heat up to us. Even with the door closed it's surreal. We break a window and radio for a ladder so we can get out of there before the whole floor goes up. A few minutes later the ladder is in place and we are headed down. Neither of us has any air left and both of us feel like we've failed. We don't say anything as we look at each other. We don't have to.
When we get back out front the dad comes up to us. He found his son. Junior had snuck out of the house to go see some friends. It's a strange feeling to wanna kill someone you where just trying to save. We both headed over for some water and to swap out our tanks. Just then our battalion chief comes up to us.
"You guys know you broke protocol, right?" He says.
We both nod.
"You guys know I'll have to write this up, right?" He says.
We both nod again.
"You guys know that there is no one I would have rather had on the first arriving engine, right?" and with that he pats us both on the back.
So, if this story has a moral, it's sometimes you have to do the wrong thing to do the right thing.
I fell about thirty feet straight to the ground and directly on my feet. My left leg absorbed the bulk of the impact and when I rolled up and looked down I saw a fist-sized hole in my shin, my tibia sticking out and bone chips all around. I laid back and thought, "This is gonna be a long one."
That vid wasn't meant as an attack on you for your actions. It was more food for thought. Plus I really like that movie.
Oh! Sorry about the misunderstanding.
Actually, I didn't even watch the vid, I just related to the title, "Fear the indiference of good men.", and the cover picture on it looks like the Pope or somebody giving a lecture on indiference/apathy/cowardly actions, etc, and I thought, "Woe, dood (rupple) is really sticking it to me."! I was already feeling guilty enough (in regards to not doing the right thing/following through). SO, i just skipped watching it. Still not sure what it's about, but I will watch it now (you piqued my curiosity).
Your right, I don't know you... You don't know me either...
Wow, awesome story, bro! I meant to add that I had a much greater appreciation for firefighters after that evening...that would be one tuff job to go to day after day. And, WAY bold decision, on the part of you and your buddy that day. Especially since you new "EXACTLY" what kind of a situation you were getting yourselves into. Glad to here it had a happy ending.
If this story has a moral, sometimes you have to do the wrong thing to do the right thing.
So true! Particularly when it's not selfserving and, in fact, may end up costing you dearly. "Greater love has no one than this..." comes to mind!
BTW, now we "know" each other a little better, eh? One of the better aspects/occasional outcomes of ST. Thanks for getting back to me & relating/sharing your remarkable story!
That's brave to mention Michelle. It's commendable that you're doing that work! I'm sure it helps a lot of people more ways than are immediately apparent.
I have a friend who has to have shunts or something installed into his kidney every couple of years. So you get used to it, I guess.
OK. I haven't read the whole thread, so I am going back to disturbing events.
I was in my office 20 miles away when this happened, but my wife was in the playground at our son's daycare when Tim McVeigh's bomb went off. They were outside and 9 blocks away. It blew out a lot of windows that were facing that direction, so it was good that they were outside.
So they come home and Sam, who was 3 or so, just said, I heard a really loud BOOM!
My wife said it was incredibly loud and sharp. The whole city thought it was surely a leak from a gas line or something. Ten minutes later I got a call from a friend and went home to see the carnage.
That was a bad one.
Tim McVeigh was not from Oklahoma. They built the bomb in Kansas. He was from Michigan and was what we would now call a tea party type. He was a gun nut who hated the federal government. Too bad he was executed. I think that they should have water boarded the bastard because it is physically impossible to grind and mix that ANFO in one day. He had help.
The bombing touched a lot of lives. My landlord was across the street taking a dump when it went off and was injured when the ceiling collapsed on him. A really close friend just missed an appt. with some people in the building, people she knew very well, and they were on the 2nd floor facing the bomb. All dead. The whole city was in tears while the AM radio f*#k wads were blaming the deaths of the children on the government.
I believe that to this day, there are body parts that don't match with anyone known. Perhaps it was a street person with no real contacts.
I had to go up there 2 days later, when they had moved the barricades back from the main downtown buildings 5 blocks to the south. The streets were covered with broken glass. In the gutters the glass was several inches deep. It blew out a lot of windows in the skyscraper windows which faced the bomb.
OK this was several years ago. I was driving from Park City to Salt Lake on I-80. Traffic was stalled at the base of the Parley's right about Mountain Dell due to some debris in the road. I'm sitting in my car at the back of the pack when I see a semi coming full bore down the hill in my rear view. I can see the driver doing everything in his power to slow down but to no avail. I look out the passenger window just as he plowed into the back of the semi sitting two lanes to my right. I remember the expression on his face, the panic, the futility and the sound. I'll never forget that day, the day I saw the last seconds on this dudes life just flash into nothingness.
Anybody else have a cyber stalker? I've got one that reports to others everything I say online; here, Facebook, you name it! So of course I plant some good ones.
The dude sent me over 200 texts in a one hour period after midnight not long ago. I had my phone on vibrate. After a while it was Like counting sheep. I fell asleep before he finished sending. Doesn't he know stuff like that leaves a traceable record?
Jaybro is it the same one as before, regarding you know who?
I say out the bastard and that should shut him up.
The internets never forgives or forgets.
You can have fun and reverse the table on them. Start posting in various nefarious forums and type their email address in the post. Sign up their email address for all sorts of sh!t.
If they've gone to stage 2 (phone/text) then their phone number can be written down on bathroom walls with the appropriate verbiage ;)
Ooh ooh, Kath, give us a clue!
The FBI eh? Hear that?You know who, that is reading this as I type?
This guy is not a threat to me just a pain in the ass narcissist. And possibly the worlds most famous hangdog. In real life he is an abject coward, won't look me in the eye, stares at the ground, is silent, almost catatonic. A real paper tiger behind a keyboard though. Unfortunately he is a danger and has been violent to someone else. Whom he ran off this forum, I might add! No need to out him if he stops harassing her.
Yes goat, the same one! And yeah I do know how to get him to stop hassling me. The problem is then he REALLY goes after her in all media! So front time to time I draw his fire to give her a break
Here is a disturbing thing I have recently witnessed.
Now, for a long time there have been stories in various media concerning violent, often sexually charged crimes such as rape and abuse of various sorts, and about often the word of the perpetrator gets taken and given more credence than that of the person violated. This seems so abhorrent and unnatural that I don't think most people want to believe it happens as often as it does. I know I didn't, especially not until it was driven home to me by a friend's experience in the last few days.
Enough is too much, and my friend confided in some climbing partners about a pattern of abuse and violence that has been going on for several years now. The perp in this case is seen to many, as a smooth charmer. Interestingly enough I never saw this charm in the first place, and he, sensing this it seems, almost immediately turned it off in my case and has instead treated me with disdain, slander an the whole panoply of passive aggressive tricks. Whatever, I really don't care what he thinks of me or my climbing.
But with my friend he affects a fake Eddie Haskell like persona for other witnesses. He is ingratiating, friendly, supportive. Then when when they are gone he reverts to his true sadistic malicious self, making demands, of all sorts, but mostly financial, and sexual.
The abusee in this case has kept this mostly quiet, ( though there have been a small number of people 'in the know' for several years) not wanting to " cause a scene". Now, confiding in seemingly trusted friends, her word is doubted. "He can't be as bad as you say, he's so charming."
" If it was really that bad, why didn't you say something sooner?"
It's like the classic examples of rape and abuse victims being told they "were asking for it!"
On another note, it's time for this guy to move on! He's dried this this cash and fame source dry, time for a new victim.
What can be done in this and similar situations? How did any of you successfully deal with any thing remotely like this?
Call him out, cause a scene, raise hell then rain fire and brimstone down on his ass.
Any guy picking on a girl deserves to be beaten and buried alive.
Really sorry to hear that a good dude like yourself has been victimized by such a dangerous and pathetic sociopath. What a messed up situation. It seems that exposing such an individual would be the way to go, but who knows of the repercussions.
My partner and I were walking the base of the Trapps at the Gunks after leaving Northern Pillar. He walked around the corner from me looking for another route. A few moments later I heard the sound of tumbling rock then the sound of gear clanking. When I ran around the corner he had tumbled thirty feet down the talus slope, landing in a reclining position with blood all over him. His helmet, which he had been wearing, was still at the cliff base.
When I got to him he was unconscious and did not appear to be breathing. Moments after I arrived he was breathing on his own but choking on blood. He soon coughed up the blood and then started screaming, which at that point was a welcome change compared to how I found him. I called 911 and got someone to run the Carriage Road to get the ranger at the Uberfall. Lots of people turned up within minutes to help treat him and carry him to the pickup down on the road. When the rangers were distributing latex gloves to the other climbers that had arrived to help they didn't offer them to me since my hands were already covered in blood.
He got a helicopter ride to the trauma center, spent a week in intensive care, had a few surgeries, and had to sleep in a hospital-style bed when he finally got home. He had broken his jaw in a couple of places and broken every rib on his left side. His helmet that had been knocked off his head had a big impact mark on the back from the rock that fell on him. I have no doubt he would be dead if he hadn't left his helmet on while hiking.
He was climbing at the gym again within a few months and finally got on some rock a couple of weeks ago with me on a trip the the Adirondacks.
In Autumn of 2001 I was taking a solo weekend backpacking trip on the Appalachian Trail in Maryland and I found a dead body. It wasn't a grim scene but the shock of it caused me to vomit against a tree. Later, after I helped the SAR crew carry out the body I found out he had died earlier that morning on the trail because I talked to a woman who had chatted with him at the trail-head before he set off.
Whenever I tell friends this story the number one question they ask is always: "Did you poke him with a stick?"
Great description Jaybro...Eddy Haskell...I know a chump just like that...Fast talking , charming , and willing to sacrifice anyone at any cost to maintain the Haskellesque charade...Good luck man...
I'm just collateral damage Kali, the main stalkee of his obsession is someone else close to me. Sociopath for sure, I've also heard the term malignant narcissicist used in his description, and as applies to his M.O.
This is the same guy who once offered me money to climb a new route with the stalkee, so that he could later hold it against her which he has, relentlessly, for two years!!. I didn't take his money and would and do climb with her happily, all the time!
In a work of spite he left this route, the hardest offwidth in indian creek, out, of the new guidebook he was a consultant on.
Jaybro...Take the guy climbing some day...Have him lead something dicey and remote then give him extra tension at the crux...Karma helps those who help themselves...RJ
So sorry for that fall. Must of been something out of this world. Hopefully you are fully recovering.
nevahpopsoff,
I have seen that. Hurts, hurts so bad it's hard to breath seeing someone you love suffering. I watched both my parents die and it wasn't pretty, but that's life. Hard, so breathlessly beautiful and somehow ugly too. My heart goes out to you.
Jaybro...
No idea man. I have had two evil charmers before in my life. Actually dated two guys that can make people think greatly of them but... Yeah, they are not who they appear to be. Once I got out of those relationships, I RAN... It still a twisted mess back there but at least it isn't my mess. Now I also dated a few Assholes too and that's a whole other subject. I actually have a bit of respect for the as#@&%es of this world because... They are who they are. They didn't change for me or anyone. If someone like myself stuck to them for a bit, that's more of my issue than theirs.
Yeah Ana the ones who are whom they are , even if its not that great, deserve more respect than the slimy skin walkers that inspired this thread.
Get this, a woman beater who has broken down the bathroom door to drag his stalkee by the hair so he can then lock her in a room and scream at her until he blacks out, has just complained that people don't like him because they know that story.that he was 'snitched' on. He does not consider the fact that they don't like him because he Is someone who expresses himself through violence and won't seek professional help to deal with it!
Edit:
Maybe it has something to do with his addiction? - literal fact, not a joke! He's lost at least one weekend to that combo recently. Of course then his one word text "drunk" speaks volumes as well. If he would only learn to keep his mouth shout, esp to certain people his problems could stay his own.
Does ketamine make one inclined toward exhibitionism? He just sent her another photo of his schlong. At least this one isn't a video!
I was driving on the interstate and a van full of two moms and 7 kids did multiple (like 10+) rollovers in front of me. All kids and one mom were ejected through the windows. They were everywhere. I was first on the scene.
What horrible stories some of you folks have. I've somehow (fortunately) generally avoided being concerned and/or disturbed with the crap that the rest of you get hit by. Sorry for you....damned sad. Not satire, some of the stories on this thread are real Freaking bad and I feel for you.
Sh#t I've lived such a great life, sometimes it takes others story's to remind one of it..... Thanks mom.
Jaybro, I married Mr. Perfect. All was well at first, charming fellow to all. After a while it slowly went to hell and became physically abusive. Recognizing I had a problem and admiting it was the hardest part of getting away and getting help. You friend has begun the long road to her own recovery by admiting it to you. She is lucky to have you for support.
I was lucky and got out before I was really hurt. I was also lucky that he was only narcisistic, not malignant. Tell her to keep a diary and any other documentaion she can of every encounter with him. It will help if he ever does something that deserves jail time.
I have also found that just having a conversation with the local constabulary can help. They give good advice and like to catch those that hurt others. It gives them a good excuse to hurt someone themselves. (joke). They do like to have a heads up. It doesn't require paperwork on their part.
I was about 14, returning from a hunting trip with my dad, brother, brother in law and dad's friend. We're driving on the interstate in central Georgia, in the middle of nowhere, when I see a body laying there about 30' off the road at the edge of the woods. Holy cow, must have been hit by a car!
I tell my dad, and my brother catches a glimpse of him too, so we pull over and backup up down the shoulder.
Go over and, no blood or obvious trauma, but the guy isn't moving, doesn't appear to be breathing, has no apparent belongings, and is ill dressed for the weather. We yell at him, and clap our hands near his face. Now thinking the guy is dead, bro-in-law goes and flags down a passing car (this is in the days before people really carried cell phones) to go call the cops.
He doesn't look like he's been there long and we're still not positive he's a corpse. Nobody is willing to try to find a pulse, in case he is alive and freaks out, stabs or punches or something. So my brother rares back and kicks the guy in the ass as hard as he can.
Nothing.
Bro says rigor mortis isn't there, so he goes and fetches a shotgun from the car. Blasts off two rounds into the woods with the barrell a couple feet from the guys head.
Nothing.
Sh#t, this guy is dead. Cops show up about 10minutes later.
"Oh, that's Percy. He's probably just drunk"
"No, we're pretty sure he's dead" and we tell them about our attempts to rouse him.
Sherriff goes over shakes him, yelling at him, gets a faint pulse, slaps him across the face a few times, keeps yelling and shaking until the guy twitches a little, then starts to moan.
WHOA! He's alive. Another five minutes of shaking yelling etc and he's sitting up, drunker'n a bicycle. Cops load him up to take him to his folks place, and we resume our trip home, relieved and laughing. But those first 30minutes were traumatizing for me, having initially spotted him and only having seen a corpse once, at a funeral.
I ...that vladimir putin butt plug was pretty damm disTurBiNg to me. Funny as hell, but disturbing. Don't know if I can open up another Locker geared thread ever again. I need to stick to climbing threads.
Ive had the misfortune to see some of this stuff too.
The first were at Smith Rocks. I had just completed the WMA WFR course. My buddy and I walked down into the park on a beautiful day, nice and cool, not too crowded for the time of year. We waltz down to the dihedral area, and notice a big crowd at the base of a very popular easy route (5 gallon buckets). We wander up, cause there's cute chicks, and everybody is all solemn. It was really weird, this big group, people crying and stuff. I ask one of them what's wrong, and she points at a rope tarp with feet sticking out from under it. You can see theres a male laying on his back under it. I asked her "Is he dead? When did this happen?" She starts nodding and says "It just happened, he just fell!" I ask her if I can look and she says "Please do, please, I think he's dead!".
I flip the tarp back, and dude is laying there blinking, bloody hands, bloody knees, slight bleeding and fluid from one ear. Holy shit! get Tommy to help me hold him stable and start asking all the questions: what day is it? Who are you? Who is the president? I start doing the full body check and notice his belay device attached to the carabiner on his harness, as he's explaining "I just leaned back and started falling, that's all I remember". I dispatch somebody to run up to the ranger station, get someone else on the phone. Talking to the guy. Finally this old guy with a Santa Claus beard and a helmet on comes up the trail, and identifies himself as a Doctor. I think, cool, I can get out of here! Ive got blood on my gloves, there's nothing I can do besides keep the guy stable and monitored until somebody shows up with a stokes litter or whatever.
So I turn the scene over to the Doctor, who doesn't so much as look down at the patient. Makes no move to stabilize him or monitor breathing or anything. So I ask the Doc, "Uh, so are you an ER Docor, or a surgeon, or what?" He gives a big grin... "no, I'm an Optometrist!" we ended up helping the VFD guys wheel him all the way up to the parking lot.
A couple weeks later we were over by the Phoenix Buttress, and this guy blows the first clip and slides down the cliff with his legs locked and gets a compound tib/fib fracture. Brutal, I'm telling you. The blood stank, and anything you did hurt the guy, sending him almost into a frenzy. We just bundled him the best we could, kept talking him through it, got him to hold my hand and squeeze it. Carried him to a pickup that had made it down.
Then we found a dead guy at the base of a popular crag in Porland called Rocky Butte. It wasn't without precedent. All sorts of shady stuff went down at "the Butt". Guy was wearing a t-shirt, socks, staring up dead at the sky.
A few years later, I was afirst responder at a vehicle accident on highway 224, where a little tyke hit the seat in front of him so hard he got a scalp tear. It bled like a stuck pig, too. I got my shirt wrapped around him and kept him spine stable until the paramedics showed up. The whole time his "Mom" was running around wih an unlit cigarette telling anyone who'd listen about why the accident wasn't her fault.
Then one night in January some friends and I were on the way up Mt Hood to do the S side route. We were the first to arrive at the scene of an accident, where a one-armed drunken ski lift operator clipped a semi head on. I was the only one who would go over to the guy and try to assess him or help at all. Somehow, the deceased man's nakedness upset me. He had been ejected from the vehicle, which finally came to rest on his legs. The smells were horrible. Certain smells will trigger the memory and it's like I'm right there. The moon shining down, the ice and snow shimmering like silver, the guys skin still warm to the touch.
The very next night, almost to the minute, I had the only bona-fide paranormal experience I've ever had. It wasn't threatening, but it wasn't anything I want to experience again.
When I worked a for a big line clearance contractor in the Oregon Coast range, we had an exhausted fisherman run over about 30 28" traffic cones and rear end the line of cars. A woman was killed, and the flagger was run over and killed.
I was 100' up a Doug fir, a hundred yards from the scene, and it was still deafening.
The person who inspired your post topic wouldn't happen to be named Jeff? Sounds exactly his MO. He is also something of a figure in the game. How that happened considering what a monster to women he is is beyond me. Anyway, I stumbled onto this post after doing a google search for a deceased old friend named Jack Mileski. Saw the topic, and felt like I knew exactly who was being referred to. Witnessed just such abuse. Was so stunned I didn't know what to say.
As a kid, about 14, I spent summers with cousins, Aunts and Uncles, and the Grandparents it Whapeton, North Dakota. Grandpa had a flower business. He did pretty well selling in the twin cities, and around Iowa and so forth. He had a barn out behind the greenhouses where he kept all sorts of stuff. The barn had a second floor door with a beam sticking out so you could hall hay up there for storage. One day I was sitting around watching this operation when the guy on top fell out the door. He landed one leg in and one leg out of one of those big old oil drums. So if you think I'm twisted that might be why...
Larry Harris, one of the most disturbing things is batt apparently there are at least two of these guys running around. Actually I started this because there are all too many of these thugs out there.
... And jack Mileski sure had disturbing events in his own life...
Good on ya, and thanks for the advice crazy bat, hope all is well with you!
this thread [and your stories] are proof that i have lived a blessed and luck-filled life. i have no real personal stories...
closest i came was seeing a christian missionary relative come back from rwanda after/during? the massacres...
seeing the core of someone's being and direction obliterated as they struggled to integrate the unfathomable, no longer having the support of their former beliefs, was to see aftershocks that helped convince me that there can be no extra-earthly hell worse than the one we regularly and collectively create for ourselves...
I saw a huge fight that turned into a multiple party stabbing at the end of a concert last weekend. I was standing in bleacher seating about 10 feet from where it took place and saw basically the whole thing. What a blemish on my memory of a f*#king awesome concert.
You are most welcome. All is wonderful with me. Hope all is well with you and the poor girl who's experience inspired this fascinating and grusum post.
Coming upon a horrendous accident just outside Yellowstone, people are standing around
reluctant to approach the mangled auto. No responders on scene yet. Able to get inside through rear passenger door. The smell of blood and antifreeze hangs in the air. This person (18 yr old woman) slumped in drivers seat. Man she's gotta be dead, but no, a strong bounding radial pulse. Then I hear the gurgling snort so I get her head up to open up airway & protect her spine. I spend the next 90 minutes in this position, my hands & shirt soaked with blood and cerebral spinal fluid. Paramedics try to hyperventilate her with a bag valve mask in attempt to slow brain swelling , except they can't get a good seal, every time they squeeze the bag blood shoots out of her eye orbits. They throw a heavy blanket on her and tell me to close my eyes & brace as they smash out remaining glass with sledgehammers, then use a sawzall to cut and remove roof. The chopper lands on the 2 lane road. They get her on a backboard with C collar, try to intubate but a fountain of blood squirts up & out of her mouth. Then she's on the chopper and on her way to Billings. The entire time I just talked to her, encouraging to keep breathing, telling her as the scene unfolds what's being done, and that a lot of people are working hard to save her. The ambulance crew helps me clean up and then I drive to Gardiner through the park,and to my tiny 2 room cabin in Cooke City, MT. That night was sad & lonely as I processed the events of the day. Next day I go to the Mammoth clinic in the park to get gamma globulin & hep B shot cuz of the exposure to body fluids. The MD tells me she is still alive only because of my actions at the scene, but she dies the next day...13 yeas later I am back up in Yellowstone country with a buddy. We would be driving down that same stretch of road the next day, only I don"t really realize it at the time. That night in Bozeman @ the hostel I have a vivid dream reliving the entire scene in stunning detail. Oh the things buried in our sub conscience. In closing I ask myself why air this on a public forum? Talking about stuff I guess helps in dealing with traumatic events...let your friends and family know how much you love them always & unconditionally, peace.
Thanks for talking about it. I never talked about something and it very nearly killed me. I don't think I could even write it down.
thanks as well for being there for her, and having the skills to help. I think we should all have WFR certification as a minimum
Let us know!