Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
Give it a rest, Phil.
Bababata

Mountain climber
Utopia
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
@ Kimbo:

you have been quite vocal on this thread, but i haven't seen you respond to posts regarding the '07 meeting and its near-consensus inre the bolts....

How is it that forty random foreigners residing in El Chalten suddenly represent all of us? Locals were not included because they don't know what a bolt is, neither were park rangers, let alone for ordinary climbers across the world... Shouldn't a democratic vote include everyone? Or do those select 40 represent only the people that want to climb Cerro Torre? Or the people that "think" they can climb Cerro Torre?

I don't see anything democratic about this - please enlighten me.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:19pm PT
Largo on K&K's chopping:
This is a great thing because it separates out the doers from the speculators and gives people a chance to rag on American aggression.



OCCUPY CERRO TORRE!
Kimbo

Sport climber
seattle
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
How is it that forty random foreigners residing in El Chalten suddenly represent all of us? Locals were not included because they don't know what a bolt is, neither were park rangers, let alone for ordinary climbers across the world... Shouldn't a democratic vote include everyone? Or do those select 40 represent only the people that want to climb Cerro Torre? Or the people that "think" they can climb Cerro Torre?

I don't see anything democratic about this - please enlighten me.

I never did claim the '07 meeting to represent "all of us", but at least it was an attempt to deal with the situation in a consensus-building way, correct?

which is a lot more than the current approach incorporated, correct?
MMCC

climber
New Zealand
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
How about this then?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=66230

edit. der, sorry, somewhat redundant post. Move along..
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:27pm PT
Old news already.


Now that it is a done deal let us take an international poll.
Surely more than 40 people have an opinion.
You all might be surprised at how many applaud the removal of Maestri's folly.
Gene

climber
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:27pm PT
How's this for irony?

Patagonia™ Climbing Ambassador Hayden Kennedy

g
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:36pm PT
It's not like he climbed Delicate Arch.
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
It's not like he climbed Delicate Arch.

Otherwise he would have to resign himself to being a spokesmodel on Italian television for slacklining.
Bababata

Mountain climber
Utopia
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
@ Kimbo

I never did claim the '07 meeting to represent "all of us", but at least it was an attempt to deal with the situation in a consensus-building way, correct?

which is a lot more than the current approach incorporated, correct?

Not really - there are a lot more people involved here and this website is a much better opportunity to build a consensus. Perhaps we should start with an online poll?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
there are a lot more people involved here and this website is a much better opportunity to build a consensus.

I really wouldn't want to associate with any group of people that would include me as a member!

DMT
stefano607518

Trad climber
italy/austria/switzerland
Jan 23, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
@foradaiball

perche´ non provi a scrivere in inglese? se parli in italiano qua un te capisce niscuno...

why do not you try to write in english? nobody is gonna understand you if you speak in italian...
Bubba Ho-Tep

climber
Evergreen, CO
Jan 23, 2012 - 04:00pm PT
Now that it is a done deal let us take an international poll.
Surely more than 40 people have an opinion.
You all might be surprised at how many applaud the removal of Maestri's folly.


FWIW, I don't applaud the removal any more than I applauded the installation. IMO, both were a travesty.

Now you have 41.
stefano607518

Trad climber
italy/austria/switzerland
Jan 23, 2012 - 04:00pm PT
anyhow

seems David Lama freed the compressor yesterday...see planetmountain.com
with or without bolts...

by real Fair means...FREE CLIMBING the route

Phil what do you think?
sac

Trad climber
Sun Coast B.C.
Jan 23, 2012 - 04:01pm PT
The Compressor Route freed!

Cerro Torre free.

AWESOME!! Just awesome.

Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 23, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
sono democratico, chi vuole traduce con google (come faccio io qua del resto), chi non vuole non legge


" I'll type as I please, you got google ( like fat people, you need to rest ), no vole has no legs "























Thank you for watching this brief commercial interlude.
Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 23, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
Is there any more definite source as to what Lama did and didn't do? Or is all embargoed, while it's filtered through lawyers, sponsors, and marketed to make the most dollars?

Jason and Hayden are said to have removed 102 bolts from the Maestri route, out of 400 or more. (Largely on the headwall?) Many that were clearly unnecessary, with 1970 let alone modern gear. However, some that were necessary, particularly on the headwall, where Maestri seems to have chosen a line that is fairly blank. So if they removed 102 bolts, mostly on the headwall, how did Lama free the compressor route? Did he replace the bolts, or?

The bolts being confiscated by the police suggests that there may be a legal element to what happened. Is there? What does Argentinian law say about this sort of thing? We can discuss it all we like - not that seems likely to lead to any definite conclusion - but if there are applicable laws, it would be useful to know.

If Hayden and Jason removed 102 bolts, it either took a lot of time and effort, or they came out easily. Given that all we've heard so far is that theirs was a fast ascent, it suggests the latter. Is it possible that the Maestri bolts were coming to the end of their safe lifetime, in a rather severe environment? They sure weren't placed or maintained by the ASCA!

Regardless of the fate of the Maestri bolt ladders, would it be reasonable for there to be a single well-chosen rappel route down that side of the mountain, with fixed anchors - bolts? So as to limit proliferation of anchors and junk?

Looking on the bright side, this debate has attracted many new posters, often from outside North America, and given us something climbing-related to endlessly discuss at an otherwise quiet time of year for TRs and such.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Jan 23, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
Did someone chop the compressor route or something????
nature

climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
Jan 23, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
naw... I think all the hubbub is because someone replaced the chopped bolt on Double Cross.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 23, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
sono democratico, chi vuole traduce con google (come faccio io qua del resto), chi non vuole non legge

Foradaiball-I tried the google translator. See, it just doesn't work. I wish I spoke Italian but 3 languages is probably my max. I agree that gives me limitations.

It's a shame you putting all your emotional thoughts to this forum in a language very few will ever read and comprehend. When you run the computer translator, it just comes out all gooblygock!

Can you find a friend nearby who can translate your thoughts and insults into English? Not because I or anybody else thinks English is very cool but so we can UNDERSTAND what you have to say.

Arne
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