Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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Messages 481 - 500 of total 2078 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Bababata

Mountain climber
Utopia
Jan 23, 2012 - 08:50am PT
f˛radaiball, google translator is probably not the best way to communicate because you seem to be missing my point.

The Nose and Salathe were put up in an acceptable style at the time. The Compressor was put up in the worst possible style in its time, it was a disgrace and the climbing community seems to agree on this. You cannot compare the two.

Maestri chose to force his way up instead of retreating. He lowered the mountain to his level. How he got up didn't matter to him. It's an attitude the climbing community has been fighting for 4 decades (starting with Messner). It is an ethical issue, and a difficult one at that. Why not put up an escalator to the top? Where do we draw the line? One thing is clear - people seem to agree that Maestri did cross the line. So, that route should not have been there. Period.

It is a happy ending, people! A terrible injustice has been amended. We should all be rejoicing, not lamenting...

(The only reason to lament is if you were somehow personally invested in climbing that route, like Shipoopi. I understand why he is upset, but that's a very personal, dare i say selfish, reason. Steve, with your credentials, I'm sure you won't have any trouble climbing the "new" route. And you will have actually climbed the mountain, as opposed to climbing a ladder to the top. Go get the friggin' second ascent! ;)
f˛radaiball

Social climber
italy
Jan 23, 2012 - 09:07am PT
ma anche Maestri si Ŕ sentito oltraggiato da chi non ha creduto alla sua salita, ed Ŕ solo per questo che Ŕ tornato lÓ, ed Ŕ salito in quel modo

quindi non si discute sul perchŔ Ŕ stato fatto, ma se la via doveva restare o andava tolta

come tutti sappiamo, nel 2007 c'Ŕ stata un'apposita riunione, dove i diversi rappresentanti che si Ŕ ritenuto far decidere, hanno preso una decisione a maggioranza

ma chi era in minoranza si Ŕ arrogato la libertÓ di andare contro questa decisione

pi¨ o meno come quando chi perde le votazioni commette un colpo di stato per imporsi
Randisi

Boulder climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 23, 2012 - 09:16am PT
[quote]I had to translate one of the english-speaker's posts : mauerhakenstreit

Some interesting stuff, there:

"One thing only do I know: that I stand just about alone in my opinions, and whenever I expressed something of them, the answer was always: 'Quite an ideal point of view, but a crazy notion.' "

quote from Paul Preuss


Are you going to poll a bunch of climbers/Argentinians/Argentinian climbers to decide what to do next?

Is there anyone who might want to have a look at what klk referenced?

http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/MauerhakenstreitCompleteIllustrated.pdf[/quote]


MH2, who could possibly care about what some climber from a hundred years ago has to say?

What possible relevance could it have?

Good lord, and a kraut too!

(Any resemblance between my screen name and the translator's name is...)
BlackSpider

Ice climber
Jan 23, 2012 - 09:37am PT
Steve Schneider:

As someone who has put in a lot of time on the Compressor route I think your personal views are very valid and can completely understand why something like this would upset you. That being said, I would say that no one is forcing you to climb the west face or any other route on the mountain. The Compressor Route, in the sense of the line up the rock, is still there; it's not like holds were chipped or erased from the rock itself. A climber with your talent and experience shouldn't have much trouble either drilling new bolts (there's already starter holes to use! :) ) or using bathooks/batheads in the holes to get up the line. And I fully support your right (or anyone else's) to climb that line and put in whatever protection you think is necessary. Somehow, I doubt you would place 400 bolts.

Really, to me the shame of the Compressor Route is that it's a line that seemingly has so much more to do with the protection than it does with the climbing, and least based on how it's discussed in the public sphere. Maybe this Lama free climb (if confirmed, and after details emerge) will help change that.
Randisi

Boulder climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 23, 2012 - 09:53am PT
Looks like it was free climbed.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=66230

http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/shownews1.lasso?l=2&keyid=39061#
BeeTee

Social climber
Valdez Alaska
Jan 23, 2012 - 10:08am PT
So some young hotshots come long forty years later and chop a historic route.. how sanctimonious we climbers are ....

Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jan 23, 2012 - 10:12am PT
Says a lot that I guy like Steve didn't even make it to the compressor bolts in 4 trips.
Maestro lost a friend trying to climb one route and probably went a little crazy.
This was a time before cams, and all kinds of ridiculous modern conviences.
He was the a top climber of his era who gave climbing everything.
This has made me see that he deserves a lot more respect.


That pic of Cerro Torre covered in Ice is terrifying.
We need unattainable summits that are not brought down to escalater and gondola status.
Not that the Compressor Route is that at all......But that is one proud looking Mountain if you know what I mean!!!!
Can't wait to go there..
fsck

climber
Jan 23, 2012 - 10:16am PT
historic garbage
left by an unchecked ego
good riddance to it

K&K Cleaners
janitors of the wild
open on sundays

Randisi

Boulder climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jan 23, 2012 - 10:22am PT
I repeat, the route has now been free-climbed at 8a.

The conversation has changed.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 23, 2012 - 10:32am PT
So David Lama stepped up to the plate and now their is a better route and the bolts that were removed proved unnecessary.
Can't we all just get along?
f˛radaiball

Social climber
italy
Jan 23, 2012 - 10:36am PT
se viene schiodato il Nose, diventa 8b in libera



la conversazione non Ŕ cambiata
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 23, 2012 - 10:47am PT
Oh come on just go pick the Nose already.

BlackSpider

Ice climber
Jan 23, 2012 - 10:55am PT
All this straw-manning about The Nose and its bolts is getting kind of tiresome. I wonder if any of the keyboard warriors threatening to chop it will even turn up in the valley let alone go up there and do the deed.
FeelioBabar

Trad climber
One drink ahead of my past.
Jan 23, 2012 - 10:56am PT
awesome ascent.

...but chopping the bolts is just pissing on the route again.......(sigh).

TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
Jan 23, 2012 - 11:07am PT
It must be really embarassing for David Lama to have to wear that stupid Red Bull cap. Poor guy.
nature

climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
Jan 23, 2012 - 11:10am PT
careful there BlackSpider, though fallacies of logic have been committed at an epic rate few actually understand "straw-man". (they probably think of Dorothy and Toto)
enzolino

climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
Jan 23, 2012 - 11:26am PT
Philo,

Should I go chop The Grand Wall route in Squamish, it has tons of ladders, and was very controversial and I did a fairesh means ascent, all free to boot?

Should I feel better and holier than all those who came before me, and those who cannot free the route and proclaim once and for all, I'm God? Remove the ladders and let the world know they are not worthy?

What say you great sage?
Good suggestion.

The Nose has been mentioned because is a historical route, with bolt ladders, which has been controversial when it was climbed.

But since these two guys arbitrarily decided to chop the Compressor's bolts, I don't see why this principle cannot be applied elsewhere.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 23, 2012 - 11:30am PT
Coz, a bit non sequitur I should think but if that's what would float your boat then by all means go for it.

I think you are unfairly condemning K&K with personality traits and motivations that they probably don't have.

So Enzolino by the extension of your logic of precedence can i show up in the Dolomites and haul a gas compressor to bolt a directisima ladder on any wall I want and leave the machinery hanging if I want?

f˛radaiball

Social climber
italy
Jan 23, 2012 - 11:40am PT
si, ma devi tornare indietro nel tempo, anni '60-'70 delle direttissime

hai la macchina del tempo ? vengo anch'io

(comunque ora basta un trapano)
enzolino

climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
Jan 23, 2012 - 11:46am PT
So Enzolino by the extension of your logic of precedence can i show up in the Dolomites and haul a gas compressor to bolt a directisima ladder on any wall I want and leave the machinery hanging if I want?
Not only ... you can go to Dolomite, re-write the history of those places, even change the names of the routes, of the summits, question all the ascents without proof and attribute your self the credit of previous routes if who opened them did not really reach the very summit ... and to support your action you can artfully design an ethical propaganda against those climbers who opened the Direttissimas more than 40 years ago ...
Someone else has already done it ... in Patagonia ...
http://alpinesketches.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/pataclimb-when-toponymy-hides-a-crusade/
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