Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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Stambecco

Trad climber
italy
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
I only think those two guys are young and brilliant, and they made a decision that is strong exactly because of their age. Maestri bolted the route in reaction of what was said about him and Egger ascent and lots of people commented it for 40 years. 40 years of bla bla. And it took 40 years to have somebody that re-reacted to this thing. It's history, ok. But if I could chance what Nazism did in the thirties and in the fourties, I would do it, even if it is part of the history!
Back to the climbing, I don't know if they were right or wrong. But exactly like Maestri (was he right?), they did something, all the rest is blabla. I'm pretty sure, having seen and listened to Maestri, he would have appreciated more those two climbers than the rest of thousands who only talked about.



ot, after schettino, Italy has another superman, fÚradaiball, who, luckily, does not represent the 0,0001% of the population. I apologise for his stupid behaviour, it's like a madman, let him speak and always tell him he is right and that we are all friend of him, and so on...
bmacd

Mountain climber
100% Canadian
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:26pm PT
Jan 21st Interview with Jason, Hayden, Colin and Rolo in the El Chalten Diary Online

http://www.lacachania.com.ar/noticia.php?id_nota=185&id_seccion=1
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:27pm PT
I spoke with my buddy Tim who has done the Compressor Route although he did not summit the snow mushroom, and he is disappointed that this happened, and felt this was a historic route and a unneeded action.

Gene

climber
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
Can anyone tell me where the Ragni route is? my head is starting to spin


Good stuff on Rolo's site. The right side of page has links to the individual routes.

http://www.pataclimb.com/climbingareas/chalten/torregroup/torre.html




aran

Trad climber
oakland, ca
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
Thanks for the link BMACD. Great interview, there commentary is pretty much what I expected- thoughtful, respectful but unapologetic and direct.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
The Ragni Route is on the West Face.


Studly, Though he may have A1ed up the bolt ladder, without finishing to the summit your friend did not do the route.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
Studly, was that Tim Wilson, Leavenworth / stevens pass patroller? he told me a couple of decades ago he had climbed it. That was a fairly early ascent (or bloody good effort) by our old standards
Cosimon

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
Now ascents of Cerro Torre will be more special.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:55pm PT
http://www.lacachania.com.ar/noticia.php?id_nota=185&id_seccion=1

Can anyone translate this?
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jan 23, 2012 - 01:55pm PT
Arnold Ziffel's* actions can shed some valuable insight into the Compressor Route.

Examining for a moment the analogy between the erasure of the Compressor Route and the erasure of the Nose on EL Cap (by Italians!), I think the analogy is a valid one.

Harding's ascent was a prolonged siege with a variety of excesses (Home Depot ascent with shopping - 'er Dolt - Cart?) that stretched for many many months and which became for the NPS a kind of vertical circus, so much so that the NPS asked Harding to suspend his shenanigans until after the busy tourist season concluded. Such tactics were not at the ethical vanguard of their time.

Despite any ethical shortcomings that can be directed at the FA tactics of the Nose, it does have character, charm, and personality. I assume the Compressor route, does (did) too, at least for a constituency of climbers. Harding too had personality and charm ... personality and charm go a long way.


From Pulp Fiction:

Vincent: Want some bacon?
Jules: No, man. I don't eat pork.
Vincent: Are you Jewish?
Jules: Nah, I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on swine, that's all.
Vincent: Why not?
Jules: Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals.
Vincent: Yeah, but bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good.
Jules: Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf*#ker. Pigs sleep and root in sh#t. That's a filthy animal. I ain't eatin' nothing that ain't got sense enough to disregard its own feces.
Vincent: How about a dog? Dog eats its own feces.
Jules: I don't eat dog either.
Vincent: Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal?
Jules: I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy, but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.
Vincent: Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?
Jules: Well, we'd have to be talkin' about one charming motherf*#king pig. I mean, he'd have to be ten times more charming than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I'm saying?
Vincent: [laughing] That's good.



-------------

*Arnold Ziffel was a pig featured in Green Acres, an American situation comedy that was produced by Filmways, Inc., and originally aired on the CBS network from 1965 to 1971. Arnold could do pretty much anything he wanted. He was very talented. He could write his name, change the channels on the television, and play the piano. He was an accomplished abstract painter (dubbed "Porky Picasso"), whose work, such as "Nude at a Filling Station," was banned. Arnold also attended school, carrying his lunchbox in his mouth, where he often played practical jokes on the other students. He was once drafted into the U.S. Army and even worked as a "paper pig" delivering newspapers, although he had a bad habit of throwing copies so hard and so badly aimed that he sometimes broke residential windows doing it.
YoungGun

climber
North
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
Dave's KKK term gains momentum:

Earlier this week the team of Hayden Kennedy and Jason Kruk chopped the historically significant and controversial Compressor Route on Cerro Torre leading some climbers to characterize the situation as the Kennedy-Kruk-Kontroversy (KKK). While few climbers believe that Cesare Maestiís Compressor route embodies the current ideals for alpine climbing, most were reticent about erasing the route. The reaction in the climbing community is understandably divided. The anti-bolt fans whose position has been fuelled for years by Rolando Garibottiís chopping campaign are positive, but others are concerned about the seemingly cavalier attitude of ignoring the historical significance of the climb and the results of a 2007 vote held in the nearby town of El Chalten that concluded the route should not be chopped.

Many have said that Kennedy and Kruk didnít have the right to remove such a historically significant route without wider consultation - especially since many of the locals feel the route should stay. Some argue that Kennedy and Kruk have not climbed the full Compressor Route but rather a more logical variation where they used four bolts placed by other parties and one placed by Kruk last year during his attempt on the wall. Reports also suggest that the team used the bolted belays from Maestriís route.

Reports also suggest that when Kennedy and Kruk got back to camp they were confronted by a group of local climbers demanding an explanation for their actions. During this time the police arrived and confiscated the chopped bolts and took them to the police station to take a statement.

http://gripped.com/2012/01/sections/news/jan-23-2012-kkk-situation-rages-on-cerro-torre/
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:05pm PT
Affirmative Bruce.
Philo, use Google translating, and then just copy and paste.
In reference to your earlier comment, I think sometimes conditions dictate otherwise when you're in the mountains, and I beg to differ with you that he didn't do the route if he climbed all the way to the summit mushroom. He didn't summit perhaps but he did the route. but whatever, it doesn't matter. What does matter is many people should have had a voice in this. Thats all.
Now as a climbing community we have to move on to where it goes next.
tarallo

Trad climber
italy
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
no only the harding slot....you should try it....foradaiball you are a great dickhead
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
Hanging in stirrups clipping up a bolt ladder placed in horrible style by someone else when a perfectly good real climb exists is stupid. Going that way simply because it is there and been done before is equally stupid. Claiming glory for not summiting is pathetic. If you can't do it without dragging it down to your level you shouldn't be there.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
Have you climbed Cerro Torre Philo?
Kimbo

Sport climber
seattle
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
Pay homage? Where did you get that? I repeatedly have said, "for better or for worse," that right or wrong was not my issue here.

ok my misunderstanding of where your personal sentiments lie.

My point is that "they took it upon themselves," to use your phrase. This is the "direct action" I spoke about and to which the vanguard had always practiced." All the yammering and judgments after the fact are perhaps important in a general, policy-defining kind of way, but the vangard is not expected to define their intentions through other's opinions, which are none of their business. That's just the way they roll, and we're powerless over that.

i think you may be misunderstanding the term "vanguard"....

regardless, i would argue that the two "boys" absolutely did "define their intentions through other's opinions", simply because it's rather impossible for us humanoids to live in a vacuum: undoubtedly they had massive exposure to various arguments related to the compressor route, and chose between competing factions as a model for their actions (ok ok we certainly get into deeper theoretical ideas regarding human "creativity", but i'll leave it at that).

"the vanguard" is not an amoral abstraction, as you seem to imply. "the vanguard" is composed of individual humanoids, "responsible" for their own actions and the consequences of their actions. sometimes humanoids succeed in carrying out actions which are accepted or not; at other times they do not succeed in carrying out those actions (meaning: "we" are not "powerless over that".

Another thing is that the vaugard, if authentic, always pushes the bar up - not sideways or down.

that's a rather moralistic view of the (amoral) "vanguard", eh? and, if even theoretically accurate, certainly not applicable to the two climbers in question: the two climbers climbed a friggin' 5.11 A2 via A DIFFERENT LINE, and then removed bolts from a climb they DIDN'T DO!

there was no "bar" being pushed upwards. they did nothing revolutionary in terms of difficulty or style. all they did was climb a moderately difficult new line and remove some old bolts from an old line.

"vanguard"? more accurately "rear-guard": protectors of an old-skool ethicism which completely ignored more modern context and prevailing sentiment.
gimmeslack

Trad climber
VA
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
Philo: re translation, I did translate the meat of the intereview a while back (when text was first posted). Back around post 265...
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:38pm PT
You don't have to have climbed or summitted something to have an opinion about it. There's no exclusivity to opinions in regards to individual summits or routes.

This is a great thread that has not yet reached it's tipping point into name calling ( although one poster above is dickheading in that direction )

THis is a FABULOUS thread and IMHO it is EXACTLY what an internet forum is for.

Carry on!!!!!
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:38pm PT
No and I probably never will now. But when I was young and driven 13 surgeries ago Cerro Torre was at the top of my list. And not via the Bolt Route. I was actively planning for a trip there in 80 or 81 but having my lip split by my own foot when my knee was violently hyper-extended pretty much changed my plans for ever. Cerro Torre was and is still the most enigmatic symbol of the purity of great alpinism and the taint of overbearing ego. It matters to me "because it's there".
llkk

Trad climber
boulder
Jan 23, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
Cesare Maestri, Jason Kruk and Hayden Kennedy WANTED dead or alive :)

Two people are on the way to the Nose to chop Harding bolts...(right, Lynn hill free it in 92) , so you mediocres climbers can not climb the nose ever again!!
Also, Take out few via ferratas in the Dolomites
Chop the bolts in Squamish in the Sword and Perry's Layback...
C'mon !! Human stupidity does not have limits!!

I totally disagree with Rolo, Hayden Kennedy and Jason Kruk
and feel ashame for the people who are happy for the chopped bolts without knowing sh#t of history

The 2 idiots, in their cleanest ascent still need to use the rappells of Maestri
I dont like Maestris way, but why if entire Chalten community agreed in keeping the bolts as a historic ascent or whatever
why this 2 20/30 year old kids have to come and take bolts out, who the hell are they?
With 5.10 shoes, nice booties, arriving in aeroplane few hs from the plane, reading the forecast!!
f*#k them

give me a break,
First respect for the older generation
Second this 2 americans are f*#king arrogant as well

I think you all that agree with the fact of cleaning the route dont know shit!

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