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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Sep 23, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
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4wd is not required, if it snows. But you will need chains. Enjoy.
I carry chains and put them on once every two or three years. A mild nuisance but pretty cheap compared to the extra expense of 4WD when you take original cost, gas mileage, and maintenance into account.
I've spent a lot more time wishing for another inch of clearance than I ever have wishing for 4WD.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Sep 23, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
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Those pics show why you need clearance. But it's not clear to me that 4WD is required there.
When you drive over imbedded rocks like that in 2wd you have to carry momentum over some of the rocks to avoid getting stuck. This increases your chances of mechanical issues, tears up your tires and prohibits a semblance of control. In 4wd you can typically "crawl" over the rocks in a controlled fashion.
This anti 4wd sentiment is weird. Yes you can walk (or bike) from your house to anywhere. Yes you can get 99% of the places you want to go in 2wd, but you can do it so much more efficiently with 4wd. I'd rather spend my time at my destination than dicking around with an inferior rig.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 23, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
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Did DMT just call me NEWMAN? 😎
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Sep 23, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
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"This anti 4wd sentiment is weird."
What's weird is driving a vehicle that gets half the fuel economy ALL the time when you only need 4WD 1% of the time (for most people with only one vehicle).
Ever heard of global warming?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Sep 23, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
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I have a Prius, a Suby, and a F250 Super Duty Turbodiesel 4WD. I win.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Sep 23, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
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What sort of mileage do you get in the f250 diesel?
Better than, or comparable to a lifted Tacoma / 4Runner, I'm guessing?
There clearly are climbing areas that require 4wd, the white rim is just one of them. And yes there are environmental problems with driving 4wds. All of these things are taken into the equation. When I bought a 4Runner I lamented to a fiend, about the looming, increased, gas bill . He said " so? It'll be your adventure mobile, while in daily life you'll be a bike commuter."
I pretty much do this, and I live less than a quarter mile from work.
On the other hand, you should see where Nut Again! Has gotten his Prius!
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Sep 23, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
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The dirt roads in southwest Wyoming often devolve to parallel track with ruts that assume you have a monster truck. Seems like everyone there does. I considered myself lucky to get to this spot, somewhere northeast of Kemerrer outside of Fossil Butte.
Places like this (somewhere east of Benton?) are easy as heck to find for free bivies near good obscure climbing, and don't need 4wd at all:
This place I chickened out at about 1:30am when I encountered a 9" vertical step in the rock. That night I had already been buried up to the axles (front and back) in a deep sand bog, spent 20 minutes on my belly with a shovel digging out when I got lucky and a couple of lads come by with a Wrangler. I had choked within the first 30 feet of very deep sand, and when I had the choice for the jeep guys to tow me back out or forward, I doubled down and had them yank me through on some of my 1" nylon tubular webbing. After that the road was better, but I hit a spot calling for high clearance 4WD and still pressed on, fairly extreme sideways tilt straddling gullies and leveraging momentum and careful steering sequence to keep wheels on the crests between gullies while dodging rocks and going diagonal over berms to avoid high-centering. But I camped at this spot, and next morning I saw some family SUVs cruising along like no big deal, and past where I chickened out, and then final insult was a 2WD sedan with a couple of young guys pulling it off. Of course I had to proceed at that point.
Putting on chains is not a big deal when you get used to it. It's a job that can be done in flip-flops. I did it a bunch last winter for Badger Pass skiing. Worst time was trying to do it on an incline after Wawona Tunnel. Now I'll be more careful to scout out flat spots. I think this was in C4 parking lot:
I recall getting to Benton Crags was a bit sketchy because the sage was about 2 feet tall in between the parallel track, and the burning sage smell was pretty thick as I plowed through it. The actual correct path wasn't that bad but I made a wrong turn-off into a dead-end canyon and that got pretty dicey. Must have been a good cleaning scrub for the undercarriage. No pics.
Batrock's camp spot in Saline Valley was questionable for the Prius in the best of conditions. Any rain and I'd be utterly screwed. He's taken me another place that would require a huge walk-in that I would never consider in my Prius.
I got pretty sketched out looking for dispersed camping outside Sequoia/Kings Canyon. The dirt roads off of Hwy 168 get pretty serious. I had kids sleeping and bouncing around the back for an hour before getting turned back at barbed wire fences across the road.
One time I left Pasadena (near Los Angeles) at about 2am, drove to SF Bay to pcik up kids and load camping gear, then south around the horn and back up to Lone Pine, to meet Mungeclimber and gang at Alabama Hills. It was my first time there, out on the dirt roads at about 7pm by moonlight, and I turned around in the wrong spot. First time I buried sand up to both axles. I didn't have a shuttle, but did have two hungry and tired kids. So I thought I did a good job keeping the mood light, telling them to check out the pretty moon while I was on my belly pulling out armfulls of sand and using some sticks to dig a bit. Only took an hour before I met up with the gang and all was well.
Another time, the river crossing at Jackass Meadow was almost my undoing. 60 miles out dirt roads with two little kids and no room for error driving through 12-18" of water with potholes to dodge and a steep muddy embankment that required full momentum while precisely weaving through a couple of potholes. That was the moment that made me more cautious in what I'm willing to attempt.
Main thing that makes me want the 4WD is winter access to eastern sierra, driving up closer to snowline for backcountry adventures. And getting to some really out-there family camping spots.
All that said, I work from home but still have almost 170,000 miles on a car from 2009. That would be about 8,500 gallons of EXTRA gas if I had a 20mpg 4WD vehicle, roughly $30,000 of higher gasoline cost for the benefit of maybe 20-30 days where I would have really used it. I guess I should be OK paying a few hundred bucks per day to rent a 4WD when I want it?
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ruppell
climber
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Sep 23, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
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Nut
You can own both. lol I have a 4Runner for driving around town and for when I want to go off-road. I have a 2003 Jetta TDI that get's 48MPG for when I want the gas savings. Win/Win.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 23, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
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Absolutely nothing about the driveline, various filters and case vents, bearings, seals, etc in a low clearance passenger car are designed for off road. Very few trucks and SUVs are either. Eventually, it's only a matter of time, everyone will learn this through repair bills, though you may not immediately connect the two. A real 4x4 hobby is way more expensive than just the extra gas. Personally, I can't stand the perma-dust.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
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I like Dingus's logic. Tried to go deep when possible and always have the rig pointed out and the camp chairs, table and stove stowed away before we crash so we can bail in a hurry if we have to without getting out of the vehicle or haveing to turn arround etc...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
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been deep in honda civics and rental sedans. Much less stress w 4x4.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 23, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
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JLP. i live 4 1/2 miles down a dirt road that has a very real mud season and washboards and pot holes the rest of the year. I figuer I pay an extra grand or so a year in vehicle wear and tear from 9 miles of dirt road every day...
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Sep 23, 2016 - 11:28pm PT
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Which climbing areas require a pedal pub?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Sep 24, 2016 - 12:51am PT
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My F250 diesel gets up to 19 mpg if all freeway at 65 mph. Usually I get around 17 mostly highway. With a 9.5' truck camper or towing I get around 13-14.
The suby gets around 24.
Both of them have lots of miles but run great.
The Prius gets around 44. It's our go to car for most driving.
We probably paid less for all 3 vehicles than most people pay for a new SUV.
I had a 4Runner or Toyota pickup for years, really hard to beat if you need one vehicle to do everything.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Sep 24, 2016 - 12:56am PT
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Tradman you need a kubota with a box scraper. I finally got one and did my driveway. It's so satisfying and nice to drive down now.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 24, 2016 - 04:17am PT
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our private road is only 1/4 mile of the trip. My neighbor has use of a tractor and York rake so we keep it in decent shape. The 4+ miles of town dirt roads get graded etc by the town half a dozen times a year but its wet in the east so they pot hole up pretty quick. then there is mud season...
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