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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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May 22, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
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DMT: Chicken and egg situation there, Werner
Not really.
Look, Jgill and DMT, if you can’t say where something comes from, then you can’t assume that it has a beginning. Just because everything you know has a beginning, means that everything has a beginning. There must be something that has no beginning. There is no one I know who has been bold enough to make that claim . . . especially without data.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 22, 2015 - 08:48pm PT
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There must be something that has no beginning
That's possible. But to put consciousness in this category is to suppose some sort of eternal consciousness field that we tune in to from birth and part with at death. Meditative ectoplasm, dear fellow.
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WBraun
climber
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May 22, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
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Consciousness is not tuned in or parted.
Consciousness is eternally you.
Are you dead stone right now?????
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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May 23, 2015 - 12:08am PT
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Jgill: But to put consciousness in this category is to suppose some sort of eternal consciousness field that we tune in to from birth and part with at death.
Out of an infinite set of alternatives, you choose this one?
I didn't say what anything is. I've just said that there must be something that has no beginning.
As to your simple interpretation, how could anyone possibly know?
You have quite an imagination about what and how other people think. I suggest you refrain from that behavior.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 23, 2015 - 07:13am PT
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Our logic (mine?) tells us that there was no Begining. If there was, what was before the Begining.
It does seem that way. The notion of a singularity at which everything began and before which there was nothing is difficult to accept. One approach to the issue is to look for observable consequences. If there was a point long ago where time itself began, there might be no currently observable effect of what, if anything, came before, and we simply can't say anything about what the situation was before time began.
However, if you go down to the lower right corner of the page you will see in very fine print the word "first." If you click on it you will observe the first page of this thread as it was so so long ago. If you are clever you will also be able to check whether the SuperTopo existed before that time.
Simple physics.
http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 23, 2015 - 08:28am PT
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"this is what I believe." -dingus
ahh ha, so you DO believe. YOU are a believer,
just like everybody else. Welcome to the party!!
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WBraun
climber
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May 23, 2015 - 08:30am PT
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Interpretations? "you can never know anything, you know"
That's your interpretations and projections from get go .... as,
"No one knows ultimately" "In the future "We" (material science) will know and only us (material scientists) who are playing god will be the authority.
My statement always has been "There is ONE who knows everything and is the source of everything".
Modern material science is the imposter One and playing the One.
Thus you've entered the dangerous trench of scientism interpreting and passing your own poor fund of knowledge as authoritative over all .....
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WBraun
climber
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May 23, 2015 - 08:52am PT
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You and I live within the box.
You're consciousness is fixed within that box.
My consciousness is not only limited to only within that limited box.
The Pope of material science inside the box is your religion and ultimate authority ......
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 23, 2015 - 09:04am PT
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"Your consciousness is fixed within that box." -wb
Only if you don't have THE MACHINE.
Dr. Janice Lester's spiritual transfer machine ($51M; cf: time machine, $71M) can free his consciousness from the box.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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May 23, 2015 - 10:27am PT
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DMT: "you can never know anything, you know"
I know that I am.
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WBraun
climber
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May 23, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
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"Our spirits, are material" -- DMT
LOL are you sure .....
Spirit = the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
Soul = the principle of life, feeling, thought, and action in humans, regarded as a distinct entity separate from the body,
and commonly held to be separable in existence from the body;
the spiritual part of humans as distinct from the physical part.
DMT, your ever so complete poor fund of knowledge is always revealing itself as pure mental speculations and pure guessing .......
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 23, 2015 - 12:29pm PT
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haha,
WB's still turning to a pre-21st century dictionary!
Time to update, brother.
.....
Carnate spirit is flesh-based, flesh-driven.
Organic spirit is flesh-based, flesh-driven.
In either case... no body no spirit.
"Echetic spirit" however lives on after the body dies.
Echesis is based on the idea... "What we do in life
echoes in eternity." (Maximus)
The "echetic spirit" of Carl Sagan lives!
It lives in us. It lives in our culture. In lives
in you and me. It lives in his books and works.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 23, 2015 - 02:53pm PT
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My consciousness is not only limited to only within that limited box
???
. . . commonly held to be separable in existence from the body
It used to be "commonly held" that the earth is flat, or that the sun revolves around the earth.
You have quite an imagination about what and how other people think. I suggest you refrain from that behavior
Thank you for the complement about my imagination. It IS a source of pride! And, yes, it does take quite an imagination to speculate on what in the world you are saying and meaning! Thanks for the exercise.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 24, 2015 - 06:28am PT
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HELLLLLOOOOOOOOO ETERNITY!!!
Still waiting for my echo. This may be bigger than I thought.
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2015 - 08:00am PT
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Says the wanna be poseur gods ^^^^ ......
Science confirms the existence of the spiritual soul separate from the material body
operating within the body just as the driver of an automobile is not the automobile.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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May 24, 2015 - 08:21am PT
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There's at least two kinds of science.
There's WBraun's Thoughts = Science
And then there's the scientific method used by scientists.
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WBraun
climber
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May 24, 2015 - 08:39am PT
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No
Only the scientific method is applicable and is what is used.
Don't try to make sh!t like you always do Marlow ....
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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May 24, 2015 - 08:42am PT
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Within your scientific framework as I described above, your words are true, WBraun...
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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May 24, 2015 - 10:06am PT
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I am still mulling over my idea that the mind is our subconscious brain and consciousness is just a display of its doings.
Here is another idea:
You are in a large museum full of all your experiences. It is completely dark except for a flashlight beam. Wherever the beam shines, those are your conscious thoughts. You can't see what is holding or directing the flashlight because all of that is in the dark.
Maybe you can find a mirror, though?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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May 24, 2015 - 10:46am PT
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Science confirms the existence of the spiritual soul separate from the material body
Statements like this are what makes this thread so entertaining.
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