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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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DMT,
I appreciate the jaunt you've taken the thread in this conversation about speech habits and culture. Culture is always fascinating. Ed's NPR pointer was informative. Thanks for that. Teaching UGs and MBAs over the past 35 years exposed much of this for so many years, I no longer generated any reactions to the practices of young people's speech patterns in university. My complaints tended to focus on my own inabilities to connect when I couldn't. Young people taught me as much as I taught them.
Reading the comments of folks here points out (to me) how much we evaluate and judge others' behaviors and compare it to our own. Ed says that we observe different speech patterns rather than pay close attention to the content: connotation dominates denotation. What we should want (as I understand his comment) is more factual, objective information rather than attitudes and style (which might appear more subjectively interpreted).
As Jim says above, how much do we complain about other cultures' styles and practices when we are in foreign countries? Don't we attenuate our attention to notice differences and try to work with them rather than evaluate and judge them? What is so different about generational differences within the same culture? What might be especially telling or insightful is not so much "Why are they talking that way?" but rather "Why am I making these evaluations?" Without the evaluations, there would seem to be no issue. I'd say all of life is like that.
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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"Why am I making these evaluations?" Without the evaluations, there would seem to be no issue. I'd say all of life is like that.
I would suggest we are wired this way to survive, and why we tend to prioritize negative experiences---to stay alive.
Only now, generally speaking, we are not in a fight or flight circumstance but the wiring still operates as if we were.
Some men seem perpetually ready for a fight, at least in word, if not physically so---stand their ground at all costs, so to speak.
Regarding speech inflection/tone/dialect/body language: completely lost in texting and tends to lead to a lot of misunderstandings.
Seems hard to believe that people use to go listen to someone speak for hours but they did not have many books, radio, phones, TV or internet.
Information is readily accessed via google. The future may not be in being knowledgeable, but in how to ask the right question. Back to philosophy and why am I making these evaluations?
It seems like knowledge, in and of itself, is not intelligence. It has been said that intelligence is the way that we use the knowledge. So far it doesn't look like it's turning out so well.That's the way I am coloring it.
Ending a statement as a question seems to shift the burden of authority?
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WBraun
climber
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Information is readily accessed via google.
Google IS a criminal outfit.
It is the tool to heavily censor and scrub information to maintain the appropriate brainwashing America needs to keep you sheep in line.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2019 - 11:04am PT
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No 50 year old from academia would ever speak like an 18 year old from the San Fernando Valley.
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You funny!
You should try and do interviews with people who have this annoying way of ending sentences. As Ed mentioned, it makes it sound like every phrase is itself a question, so when a question from an interviewer is answered with what sounds like another question, the subject comes off as not having any conviction about what she or he is saying, leaving listeners to feel as thought nothing means more or less than anything else. It's a sly way to avoid committing to any position on anything, whereby all is fluid.
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WBraun
climber
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Because gross materialists are so clueless they need to make up more and more useless st00pid sh!t that looks like it's "NEW".
They masquerade being blind and lost as adventure ......
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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I have no shortage of criticisms towards much of the speech evinced by men as well as women. In fact my criticisms normally easily transcend both gender and politics.
For instance nothing is more alarming as men who sound in general as though a good hearty dose of testosterone would improve their general discourse. I am not talking about non-heterosexual men -- I'm talking about men in general in today's generations. They often sound like eunuchs with law degrees, or techies who are in dire need of sun exposure on their nuts.
And it seems to be quite widespread, and growing about as rapidly in incidence as autism.
Let us not forget such things are not merely mundane annoyances but unfortunately often hint strongly at underlying pathologies amongst the range of choices in modern human life . They are normally symptoms of disconnection from nature, nothing less, and we would be vigilantly wise to heed their implications.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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I'm still going with mind is a kind of memory -- memory with an extra loop beyond declarative memory. We think that we are making our decisions as independent agents with "deciding power". What actually happens is that we unconsciously make the decision and then "remember" our reasons for it. The memory traces are written to multiple locations. In humans, that includes the Interpreter, which assigns meaning to the memory. It could change tomorrow (my mind about this matter, that is).
Edit:
The special thing about (short-term) memory is that it can always be just a fraction of a second behind the unconscious decision. The very next decision can incorporate that new memory. We're consciously always just a step behind the oncoming stream.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2019 - 06:48pm PT
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oing with mind is a kind of memory -- memory with an extra loop beyond declarative memory. We think that we are making our decisions as independent agents with "deciding power". What actually happens is that we unconsciously make the decision and then "remember" our reasons for it.
Memory here is basically personality, or a conditioned response. The whole point of consciousness work is to realize personality is the matrix, and to move out of it, as as Winnicott said, gert behind personality. Not easy, but possible. And in a way where it's not a matter of "he only thought he was outside personality."
Stuff like "The Presence Process" is all about this. Thing is, unless you become conscious of BEING in personality (working automatically from memory/conditioning), you have little chance of breaking the trance. There are other sand traps, roughs and hazards as well. The personality doesn't just roll over.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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DMT,
Good on ya. You've shown yourself to be exactly what you say. I have a lot of admiration for that.
John and others,
If there is a thing like collective consciousness (under ground or above ground), then it speaks to culture, which is difficult to analyze while you're in it. So many things seem to be invisible and assumed living in a culture. We don't have to understand our own culture to be a part of it and following it.
What speech and language patterns might be communicating could be occurring at a subliminal level. They could be forms of body language. Hesitancy, metaphors, and unending questions could be pointing to a post-modern view that has doubts scattered everywhere. Similarly, a Buddhist Middle Way view neither lights on this nor that. It plays with difference always and everywhere. I think my students in this age group had intuitive understandings of indeterminancy (they came to it naturally because they brought in the age). The climate of a cultural movement sweeps up almost everything in it's path--save for the most bullet-proof, ironclad, hardened objectivity. Speech and language patterns might be the result of a different state of consciousness.
On a completely other note, only recently have I begun to feel whole and well after a set of challenging events medically that have been going on for months. It's really nice being well. One forgets that "normal" or "regular" is essentially bliss.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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One forgets that "normal" or "regular" is essentially bliss.
I know what you mean, Mike. The "reminders" are a little hard to go through. Congrats.
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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One forgets that "normal" or "regular" is essentially bliss.
I can certainly relate.
MikeL glad your feeling better.
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WBraun
climber
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There is NO real bliss in the material world.
Only temporary impermanent fleeting.
The living entity continually seeks bliss because it's true constitutional position is permanently blissful.
Due to coming in contact with matter that blissful state is reduced and true memory is lost to materialism.
Due to the living entities reduced memory (smrti) the living entity spends it's entire existence in the material world counteracting the duality of the material world to regain it's original blissful state.
The gross materialists in their material consciousness always fail ....
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capseeboy
Social climber
portland, oregon
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With regards to voice: Elizabeth Holmes--During most of her public appearances, she spoke in an unusually deep baritone voice, although a former Theranos colleague later revealed that her natural voice was actually a few octaves higher.
She sounded like a baritone zombie to me but her magic worked on Shultz, Kissinger, Perry, Mattis, Roughhead, Nunn et al
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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On a completely other note, only recently have I begun to feel whole and well after a set of challenging events medically that have been going on for months. It's really nice being well. One forgets that "normal" or "regular" is essentially bliss.
Glad to hear this MikeL. A new buoyancy is detectable in your words, even before the above declaration.
Stay well.
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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This thread will be 8 years old in a short while.
Has anyone changed their mind? Have any insights occurred?
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WBraun
climber
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My mind has changed.
You gross materialists are more insane than ever ..... :-)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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https://www.cogneurosociety.org/mycns/?mtpage=invited_symposia
An emerging neuroscience of social connectedness
Chair: Thalia Wheatley, Dartmouth College
Speakers: Michael Platt, Victoria Leong, Carolyn Parkinson, Giovanni Bosco
Social interaction is the medium through which we share ideas and experiences, forge social ties, align mental models and leverage expertise. Despite the social nature of many animals, scientific understanding of the brain rests near-exclusively on an isolated brain model. We have learned a lot about many neural systems yet little about how these systems achieve, support and benefit from the collective contexts the brain evolved to solve. In this symposium, we highlight recent approaches that investigate how brains shape each other and the consequences of this influence on learning, behavior, and the structure of our social networks.
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WBraun
climber
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We have learned a lot about many neural systems yet little about how these systems achieve, support and benefit from the collective contexts the brain evolved to solve
And you'll never figure it out without the full understanding of the soul and consciousness itself.
Never, and I guarantee it ......
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