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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Critical thinking is a good thing as long as you act informed, but you will have to do your lesson right, which sycorax, in this case, hasn't done.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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I think sycorax makes a valid point, while at the same time I question her understanding of the larger point.
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WBraun
climber
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Marlow -- "The "water" in the river you step into is never the same as the "water" in the river you step out of."
You just made that up in your little head to try and sound like you have critical thinking.
But you have NOT!
Please don't reply as your reply will be the same as always ......
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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You just made that up in your little head to try and sound like you have critical thinking.
But you have NOT!
Please don't reply as your reply will be the same as always ......
Be careful, Werner, lest you get lost inside yourself.
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WBraun
climber
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Lost inside myself?
I've been outside almost all day ...... :-)
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Original thoughts Werner...Bullshit
Straight out of your little bible...Bhagavad Gita. Like a broken record.
Also no original thoughts from the OP...just spewing out what he has read from others.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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I've been outside almost all day ...... :-)
Much safer at our age. We are more likely to get hurt at home.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Of course I made that up, WBraun, based on the fact that Marlow hasn't mentioned "Jeanne and cork" before now. Who else could have made it up? The Grand server (read: WBraun) of life?
No, I will not reply...
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WBraun
climber
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Marlow -- "No, I will not reply..."
LOL ... you are replying while simultaneously saying you are not going to ...
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Am I? You're kidding...
This was not a reply.
Remember, I'm trying to talk American here...
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Marlow -- "No, I will not reply..."
LOL ... you are replying while simultaneously saying you are not going to ..."
As do you...like a moth to a flame.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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As do you...like a moth to a flame.
Like a cork in a river.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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The river metaphor was stolen from Heraclitus - everything is streaming...
More from Heraclitus:
"Other men are oblivious of what they do awake, just as they are forgetful of what they do asleep.
Not comprehending, they hear like the deaf. The saying bears witness to them: absent while present.
Although the account (logos) is shared, most men live as though their thinking (phronesis) were a private possession.
Most men do not think (phroneousi) things in the way that they encounter them, nor do they recognize what they experience, but believe their own opinions.......... "
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Good perspective.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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The river metaphor was stolen from Heraclitus - everything is streaming...
a well worn metaphor for time, but perhaps one should examine the origins of the metaphor, and the presumptive logic of it, to wit:
A) we can measure time with a water clock (streaming)
B) water clocks work by "streaming" water from a higher bowl through an orifice into a lower bowl.
C) therefore, time is a "stream"
given the great antiquity of the technology,
Water clocks are some of the oldest time-measuring instruments.[1] Where and when they were first invented is not known, and given their great antiquity it may never be. The bowl-shaped outflow is the simplest form of a water clock and is known to have existed in Babylon and in Egypt around the 16th century BCE. Other regions of the world, including India and China, also have early evidence of water clocks, but the earliest dates are less certain. Some authors, however, claim that water clocks appeared in China as early as 4000 BCE.[2]
Heraclitus no doubt fully accepted the metaphor without examining its logic.
The "stream" analogy runs fully into a major paradox with regard to physics, for which the existence of time is still somewhat of an unresolved issue. But particularly, that time-reversal-symmetry is an essential piece of the quantum description of the universe, and that requires us to consider the seemingly nonsensical idea of streams running backward, that is "up hill."
How the microscopic properties of time emerge as our experience of time is an interesting and open question.
Our common experience of what we call time, and the ways we have defined it (as with the water clock) are at some variance with physical time.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
time, of course, isn't on anybody's side...
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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See what you did, Jeanne Moreau?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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As I've mentioned before notions of time were paramount at the fateful debate between Einstein and Henri Bergson in the early 1920s. Bergson believed that Time had an essential continuity that disallowed picking a specific moment as might be done in physics. But his ideas were meant to be comprehended more by intuition than reasoned discourse. He lost the debate and his popularity spiraled downward from his position as the leading philosopher of that period to the point that Stanford's philosophical encyclopedia doesn't even mention him under the discussion of time.
Some believe this debate is where the humanities truly separated from the sciences.
Recently, in Foundations of Physics, a paper appeared that revived Bergson's ideas (although a reviewer didn't even recognize them as such), but the author turns out not to be a physicist, nor any kind of scientist, and has since been somewhat discredited.
I miss tachyons.
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WBraun
climber
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The Universe is NEVER indifferent to the living entities within it.
You just made that up in your head .......
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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'I've always loved being proven wrong.
So Werner, if the universe is never indifferent to the living entities within it, please explain death."
Oh, that is easy as the gross physical body is not really a living entity. The soul never dies.
:-)
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Stop encouraging him.
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