Bin Laden's Dead.

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 661 - 680 of total 1380 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Anastasia

climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
May 4, 2011 - 09:39pm PT
Nothing about this is going to be easy. It's a multi front war, with no specific leader and you can't really define winning without a specific target to neutralize. It's not possible to "win" without a goal.

Terrorism wins by scaring their target countries to the point that they cannot function or operate and where they will go broke fighting shadows. Fear is a killer so in order for them not to win we cannot act afraid. Sadly we love drama and this fear thing is good for elections. We are letting them win by allowing 9/11 to cause two wars, etc.

Now for some of you that think Arabs are the same and thus are equal threat is like calling all Caucasians a.k.a. German and Jews during WWII the same. It's not and we must be very diplomatic about this... We don't want to make ourselves their common enemy. That will be extremely stupid.

Now about Pakistan... Oh what an unstable mess that we've funded over the years. It's nuclear, divided and without strong leadership. They would really love a common cause to unite them. Please God let that not be us. They are like a five year old with a machine gun. We need to get someone in power there that can help change that trend. India would love that, we would love that but heck... When you have a country that powerful and poor, it makes them willing to do crazy things. We need to get their economy going in order for "stability and peace" to work. Sadly we can't even get that going here so... I hear a ticking time bomb.

AFS



WBraun

climber
May 4, 2011 - 09:45pm PT
Who knows?

Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.

Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.

Back in April 2002, over nine years ago, Pieczenik told the Alex Jones Show that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months,” and that the government was waiting for the most politically expedient time to roll out his corpse. Pieczenik would be in a position to know, having personally met Bin Laden and worked with him during the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan back in the early 80′s.

Pieczenik said that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001, “Not because special forces had killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him and it was on the intelligence roster that he had marfan syndrome,” adding that the US government knew Bin Laden was dead before they invaded Afghanistan.

Marfan syndrome is a degenerative genetic disease for which there is no permanent cure. The illness severely shortens the life span of the sufferer.

“He died of marfan syndrome, Bush junior knew about it, the intelligence community knew about it,” said Pieczenik, noting how CIA physicians had visited Bin Laden in July 2001 at the American Hospital in Dubai.
jstan

climber
May 4, 2011 - 09:50pm PT
Really incredible that anyone could think this was a simple operation requiring no thought. Astonishing. If this is typical of American thought - this is the end. We won't be able to hold our ground against more advanced peoples.

The helicopter force apparently went in via nap-of-the-earth flight, nearly at ground level. With present gear this can be done at night at very elevated speed (on fighter jets). You wouldn't believe. The helicopters would have been doing 200 mph right on the deck. In terrain with any relief, radar would have been of little use detecting them. Night vision capability in the PAF's F-16 jets is not clear. Circa 1984 and up to recent times their jets used the Lantirn system working in the LWIR. That MCT system provides data for both navigation and armaments targeting. The detectors were a bitch to make. Around 1997 Raytheon was designing the DB110( dual band- visible and MWIR[3-5 µm InSb]). These units were being retrofitted to PAF F-16's starting in June 2010. At least the oblique imaging is done by push broom instead of scanning. Movement of the aircraft itself drives the development of the image. This was the way images were generated in the 50's and early 60's interestingly enough.

So we don't know what equipment was on potential interceptors. But think for a moment. Does Pakistan really want to shoot down US aircraft? Firing would have been insane. If their jets were scrambled they would have been told it was for reconaisance only. The next question is whether Obama decided there would be fighter cover. It would be an insult to do this.

From what I have seen of him, he would have specified no fighter cover. We are allies.

Shouldn't have had to sleep on it! Holy christ!

A staggering level of ignorance.

Unless we fix our system of public education we won't become a bananna republic.

We are headed for the stone age!


monolith

climber
May 4, 2011 - 10:01pm PT
Bluering, some pics of the sea burial have been released.

And as Obama said, releasing pics of the body will do little to ease the doubts. Conspiracy droids will find 10 things wrong with it and suck in the gullible.

And whatdya know, a cdroid just showed up below.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 4, 2011 - 10:04pm PT
WB,

Thanks for posting that.


Here is the link . . .

Top US Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag
http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag.html



Also . . .




Alex talks with Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, the U.S. government insider who said last week that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job. Pieczenik was used by Tom Clancy to base his character Jack Ryan from Patriot Games on. Alex also talks with author, researcher and radio host Webster Tarpley. Alex continues coverage of the Osama bin Laden assassination hoax and the release of photographs that will purport to show Bin Laden's bullet-riddled corpse. He also covers other news and takes your calls.

http://www.infowars.com/infowars.asx




This is very important I'm posting the entire article . . .



http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag.html


Top US Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag


Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations Steve R. Pieczenik says he is prepared to tell a federal grand jury the name of a top general who told him directly 9/11 was a false flag attack



Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Wednesday, May 4, 2011

Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.

Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.

Recruited by Lawrence Eagleburger as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management, Pieczenik went on to develop, “the basic tenets for psychological warfare, counter terrorism, strategy and tactics for transcultural negotiations for the US State Department, military and intelligence communities and other agencies of the US Government,” while also developing foundational strategies for hostage rescue that were later employed around the world.

Pieczenik also served as a senior policy planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker and worked on George W. Bush’s election campaign against Al Gore. His record underscores the fact that he is one of the most deeply connected men in intelligence circles over the past three decades plus.

The character of Jack Ryan, who appears in many Tom Clancy novels and was also played by Harrison Ford in the popular 1992 movie Patriot Games, is also based on Steve Pieczenik.

Back in April 2002, over nine years ago, Pieczenik told the Alex Jones Show that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months,” and that the government was waiting for the most politically expedient time to roll out his corpse. Pieczenik would be in a position to know, having personally met Bin Laden and worked with him during the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan back in the early 80′s.

Pieczenik said that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001, “Not because special forces had killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him and it was on the intelligence roster that he had marfan syndrome,” adding that the US government knew Bin Laden was dead before they invaded Afghanistan.

Marfan syndrome is a degenerative genetic disease for which there is no permanent cure. The illness severely shortens the life span of the sufferer.

“He died of marfan syndrome, Bush junior knew about it, the intelligence community knew about it,” said Pieczenik, noting how CIA physicians had visited Bin Laden in July 2001 at the American Hospital in Dubai.

“He was already very sick from marfan syndrome and he was already dying, so nobody had to kill him,” added Pieczenik, stating that Bin Laden died shortly after 9/11 in his Tora Bora cave complex.

“Did the intelligence community or the CIA doctor up this situation, the answer is yes, categorically yes,” said Pieczenik, referring to Sunday’s claim that Bin Laden was killed at his compound in Pakistan, adding, “This whole scenario where you see a bunch of people sitting there looking at a screen and they look as if they’re intense, that’s nonsense,” referring to the images released by the White House which claim to show Biden, Obama and Hillary Clinton watching the operation to kill Bin Laden live on a television screen.

“It’s a total make-up, make believe, we’re in an American theater of the absurd….why are we doing this again….nine years ago this man was already dead….why does the government repeatedly have to lie to the American people,” asked Pieczenik.

“Osama Bin Laden was totally dead, so there’s no way they could have attacked or confronted or killed Osama Bin laden,” said Pieczenik, joking that the only way it could have happened was if special forces had attacked a mortuary.

Pieczenik said that the decision to launch the hoax now was made because Obama had reached a low with plummeting approval ratings and the fact that the birther issue was blowing up in his face.

“He had to prove that he was more than American….he had to be aggressive,” said Pieczenik, adding that the farce was also a way of isolating Pakistan as a retaliation for intense opposition to the Predator drone program, which has killed hundreds of Pakistanis.

“This is orchestrated, I mean when you have people sitting around and watching a sitcom, basically the operations center of the White House, and you have a president coming out almost zombie-like telling you they just killed Osama Bin Laden who was already dead nine years ago,” said Pieczenik, calling the episode, “the greatest falsehood I’ve ever heard, I mean it was absurd.”

Dismissing the government’s account of the assassination of Bin Laden as a “sick joke” on the American people, Pieczenik said, “They are so desperate to make Obama viable, to negate the fact that he may not have been born here, any questions about his background, any irregularities about his background, to make him look assertive….to re-elect this president so the American public can be duped once again.”

Pieczenik’s assertion that Bin Laden died almost ten years ago is echoed by numerous intelligence professionals as well as heads of state across the world.

Bin Laden, “Was used in the same way that 9/11 was used to mobilize the emotions and feelings of the American people in order to go to a war that had to be justified through a narrative that Bush junior created and Cheney created about the world of terrorism,” stated Pieczenik.

During his interview with the Alex Jones Show yesterday, Pieczenik also asserted he was directly told by a prominent general that 9/11 was a stand down and a false flag operation, and that he is prepared to go to a grand jury to reveal the general’s name.

“They ran the attacks,” said Pieczenik, naming Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley, Elliott Abrams, and Condoleezza Rice amongst others as having been directly involved.

“It was called a stand down, a false flag operation in order to mobilize the American public under false pretenses….it was told to me even by the general on the staff of Wolfowitz – I will go in front of a federal committee and swear on perjury who the name was of the individual so that we can break it open,” said Pieczenik, adding that he was “furious” and “knew it had happened”.

“I taught stand down and false flag operations at the national war college, I’ve taught it with all my operatives so I knew exactly what was done to the American public,” he added.

Pieczenik re-iterated that he was perfectly willing to reveal the name of the general who told him 9/11 was an inside job in a federal court, “so that we can unravel this thing legally, not with the stupid 9/11 Commission that was absurd.”

Pieczenik explained that he was not a liberal, a conservative or a tea party member, merely an American who is deeply concerned about the direction in which his country is heading.

Watch the full interview with Dr. Pieczenik below.




Wow. Stunned. Is all I can say.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 4, 2011 - 10:06pm PT
Really incredible that anyone could think this was a simple operation requiring no thought. Astonishing. If this is typical of American thought - this is the end. We won't be able to hold our ground against more advanced peoples.

The helicopter force apparently went in via nap-of-the-earth flight, nearly at ground level. With present gear this can be done at night at very elevated speed (on fighter jets). You wouldn't believe. The helicopters would have been doing 200 mph right on the deck. In terrain with any relief, radar would have been of little use detecting them. Night vision capability in the PAF's F-16 jets is not clear. Circa 1984 and up to recent times their jets used the Lantirn system working in the LWIR. That MCT system provides data for both navigation and armaments targeting. The detectors were a bitch to make. Around 1997 Raytheon was designing the DB110( dual band- visible and MWIR[3-5 µm InSb]). These units were being retrofitted to PAF F-16's starting in June 2010. At least the oblique imaging is done by push broom instead of scanning. Movement of the aircraft itself drives the development of the image. This was the way images were generated in the 50's and early 60's interestingly enough.

So we don't know what equipment was on potential interceptors. But think for a moment. Does Pakistan really want to shoot down US aircraft? Firing would have been insane. If their jets were scrambled they would have been told it was for reconaisance only. The next question is whether Obama decided there would be fighter cover. It would be an insult to do this.

From what I have seen of him, he would have specified no fighter cover. We are allies.

Shouldn't have had to sleep on it! Holy christ!

A staggering level of ignorance.

Unless we fix our system of public education we won't become a bananna republic.

We are headed for the stone age!

This is way over most people's heads.

There needs to be a "Team America" animated version.

The Stone Age started in 2000 with the election of W.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 4, 2011 - 10:07pm PT
A lot of conspiracy thinking going on ....yet no one has proved that Obama did anything illegal.

I agree with Jstan...second world status for the US and then third if this way of thinking continues.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 4, 2011 - 10:19pm PT
The photo would only enrage certain radical Islamists. I have seen people with gunshot wounds to the head, the faces become unrecognizable and would only lead to doubt.

I've seen .50 caliber headshot pics too. Not pretty. But not releasing them is weird.

Imflaming radical islamists? Do they need imflaming? Really?

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 4, 2011 - 10:25pm PT
What is obvious is that we don't know exactly what has happened.

There is sooooo much spin and disinfo. It's massively confusing.

I know 9-11 is a massive lie.

Because it is it seems they would have to lie massively with OBL also. He is their "Oswald."

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

But I'm willing to look at all of it.

I just don't know. I'm absorbing this latest info that WB has directed us to.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 4, 2011 - 10:27pm PT
Here's something else that initially caught my query. 2 UH-60's carrying 24 guys? That is a real heavy load even for modified helos. Would they really do that? Why not 3?

And 24 SEALS? I assume that is a misrepresentation because that would be at least 4 SEAL teams all together at once with 'advisors'. CIA dudes and NSA intel guyz.

Who puts 4 SEAL teams into one op??? That seems like a lot of SEALS in one place at one time, which is overkill, even for this op. 2 SEAL teams tops could have done this, with "contractors" in tow.

It doesn't seem tight the more I look at it....


EDIT: BES1'st, the headwound would be conclusive with the spec ops preferred weapon sidearm... .45 ACP. A 9mm round wouldn't 'blow yer head' off probably.

That's why the special operators prefer the .45 round. One shot, yer dead.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 4, 2011 - 10:34pm PT
Bush junior knew about it, the intelligence community knew about it,” said Pieczenik, noting how CIA physicians had visited Bin Laden in July 2001 at the American Hospital in Dubai.


Is there any evidence, outside of this individual, to confirm that statement? Otherwise, we're just taking his word for it. Which is exactly your complaint in the first place, that we're just taking the government that their word.


If you're going to make that argument, it gets pretty complicated. For example, your hypothesis would stipulate that the CIA has been making Bin Laden tapes over the past decade.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 4, 2011 - 10:59pm PT
Reuters has made available photos taken at compound, including "gruesome" ones.

http://www.reuters.com/subjects/bin-laden-compound

click on the "flash" screen and then you can click through the photos
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 4, 2011 - 11:01pm PT
BES1'st, the 9mm round is higher velocity and smaller. It's a penetrating round, with high-capacity magazine capability.

The .45 round is a blunt, slower round. It doesn't really go through you, like a 9mm. It knocks you down and leaves a big wound. It's a close combat round for dropping people in one shot. That's what it was designed for...

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 4, 2011 - 11:13pm PT
Those photos of the dead are revulsive. I agree with the Presidents decision not to release photos of OBL

This from: http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...ad-report-says

Islamabad - Pakistan media reported Wednesday that a 12-year-old daughter of Osama bin Laden has said that she was present when her father was killed by the US troops.

The Dawn newspaper said the unnamed girl told officials of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) that she witnessed the killing of bin Laden.
'Osama bin Laden's teenage daughter witnessed her father's death in the compound in Abbottabad according to an ISI official,' the paper said.
But it did not provide details of the killing or the struggle with the US troops before he was shot dead.

Bin Laden's daughter is the only person who has confirmed the death of the al-Qaeda leader after the announcement by US President Barack Obama that US forces had killed the mastermind of the September 11 attacks on Monday morning in Abbottabad, 60 kilometres north-east of the capital Islamabad.
Another daily, The News, said quoting official sources that bin Laden's daughter witnessed her father's death.

'Osama bin Laden's daughter confirmed her father was captured alive and shot dead by the United States special forces during the first few minutes of the midnight operation,' the paper said.

The assertion contradicts the US claim that the Navy SEALs tried to capture bin Laden alive but killed him when he resisted.

The Dawn said that there were 17 to 18 people in the compound at the time of attack and the US soldiers took away one of the sons of bin Laden along with his body.

Pakistan's Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday that all those captured from the compound including children were being looked after and would be handed over to their countries of origin.

Another source, who claims to have seen the photos, claims the wound over OBL’s eye is an obvious exit wound suggesting he was shot from behind.

(I’m not vouching for the accuracy of this…it could be contrived trumpery from debunkers…or have some veracity. How all this will be politicized… is probably more predictable)
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 4, 2011 - 11:43pm PT
Just one look at fattrads picture and you can tell he was a bad ass badge man that used to beat hookers with his maglight outside Niel Youngs place.





fatty would only do that would backup.....
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 5, 2011 - 12:01am PT
Coz wrote

Karl you have been reported to the FBI watch dog list.

WTF is that supposed to mean? A troll or for real, and why?

Did you feel I might be a terrorist threat? Like I'm a violent guy?

Get straight with your community here Coz. You were already out of line questioning my patriotism.

Karl
WBraun

climber
May 5, 2011 - 12:06am PT
He's yankin your chain.

But ....

1078 posts and the supertopo sheeple haven't got a fukin clue.

The media hasn't got a fukin clue.

Unbelievable
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 5, 2011 - 12:09am PT
Interesting that alledgedly Bin Laden's daughter confirms his death but then adds he was executed and supposed we have his son in custody?

I can understand the "need" to obscure the truth in reporting the incident to the people but why bother if eye witnesses are going to blow your credibility anyway?

Any way you look at it, it's worthy of deep thought and investigation why Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations Steve R. Pieczenik would say that Bin Laden was dead in 2001 and that 9-11 was a false flag operation. Because that has to mean one of three things

1. He might be telling the truth, cause he has a lot to lose by appearing to be a nutcase
or
2. He is putting out disinformation for some political reason
or
3. We have extremely high level and connected administration professionals with PhDs who have mostly lost their marbles.

Any of these is a considerable concern. Which is it? Guys like this have pretty secret clearance and could do a lot of damage if crazy (or sane if they are blowing the cover on something big)

Peace

karl
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 5, 2011 - 12:14am PT
the supertopo sheeple haven't got a fukin clue.

The media hasn't got a fukin clue.

Unbelievable

Yet you know enough to know that the media has it wrong. And how exactly do you know this?
Captain...or Skully

climber
or some such
May 5, 2011 - 12:22am PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/539369/WHAT-SONG-are-you-listening-to-right-now

Songs? Fer free.
Messages 661 - 680 of total 1380 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta