Bin Laden's Dead.

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Messages 1 - 1380 of total 1380 in this topic
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Original Post - May 1, 2011 - 10:58pm PT
Yep.

Turn on CNN if you've got a TV, the Pres is about to hold a press conference.
monolith

climber
May 1, 2011 - 11:02pm PT
Let the conspiracy droids blather on.

This has gotta suck for the conservatives.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 1, 2011 - 11:06pm PT
Confirmed, we have his body.


Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2011 - 11:10pm PT
I heard that it was Bear Grylls who did it.
murcy

Gym climber
sanfrancisco
May 1, 2011 - 11:14pm PT
Right on top of the WH Correspondents' Dinner comedy turn, a great weekend for Mr. President. Time to pose for a coin!
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 1, 2011 - 11:16pm PT

RIGHT FROM THE FRONT PAGE OF FOX NEWS.

Nice spelling!

Ummm, you may not know this, but his actual name is written in Arabic. When transliterated in Roman letter, there are a couple ways to do it.
Same with Gaddafi (G or K or Q).
nick d

Trad climber
nm
May 1, 2011 - 11:20pm PT
Confrims

Pretty sure that's an english word, misspelled by the "fact checkers" at Fox.
MTucker

Ice climber
Arizona
May 1, 2011 - 11:22pm PT
Will it change anything? No.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
May 1, 2011 - 11:23pm PT
CIA got him? A drone?

The President is about to speak - within the next ten minutes.

Cool stuff!!

Got him a week or so ago, waited til they got the DNA confirmation.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 1, 2011 - 11:23pm PT
^ ^
Fox says "confirms" when I look at it, maybe it was changed.
Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado
May 1, 2011 - 11:26pm PT
Appears they killed him in Pakistan near the capitol of Islamabad.

No, not Busey! OBL.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 1, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
Good week for the President.

He smacks the birthers down, and now he gets Bin Laden.


And Wow, Really is exposed for the stupid little internet troll he wow really is.


TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
May 1, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
Gary Busey in martyrdom? I think not.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 1, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
Team America...Fuk Yeah!!

Okay, lets bring the troops home now.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
May 1, 2011 - 11:29pm PT
On the main Fox page, the spelling is okay. Click on that to read more and the headline still reads "Usama Bin Landen Dead Fox News Confrims". Double typo.
murcy

Gym climber
sanfrancisco
May 1, 2011 - 11:32pm PT
CBS News says that this sends a real message to bin Laden.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
May 1, 2011 - 11:33pm PT
Nope, not a drone. "Human operation" they say.

Some bad-ass sniper? Hmmmm. CIA?
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
May 1, 2011 - 11:35pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NynbLtRLisg
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
May 1, 2011 - 11:36pm PT
BREAKING NEWS..... THE WAR ON TERROR IS OVER !!!!!

HURRAY!!! AMERICA WINS THE WAR ON TERROR. ALL TROOPS TO COME HOME!!!
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2011 - 11:37pm PT
One of the very few times that I've been happy to hear of another's demise.
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
May 1, 2011 - 11:41pm PT
woohooo
mottaaa

Trad climber
tucson
May 1, 2011 - 11:43pm PT
Lets not anoint Obama...??? Really?? Did he not pull troops out of Iraq and increase Troops in Afganistan, and increase the effort to Get Bin Laden?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 1, 2011 - 11:44pm PT
One of the very few times that I've been happy to hear of another's demise.

Not me--I've never understood what right the US to go around killing people in foreign countries, without a trial. What if he could have been captured alive?
Remember this guy was never convicted of any crime.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 1, 2011 - 11:44pm PT
The news comes as an unparalleled boost for US foreign policy, the key aim of which since 2001 has been the disarming and dismemberment of al-Qaida, and coincidentally probably insures the re-election of Obama in the 2012 presidential contest.
As a candidate, during the 2008 election campaign Obama repeatedly vowed: "We will kill Osama bin Laden." And so it proved.
Here
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 1, 2011 - 11:44pm PT
Yes!

Norton has a point too:

And Wow, Really is exposed for the stupid little internet troll he wow really is.



Of course we all know that Wow, Really is a troll/turd.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
May 1, 2011 - 11:45pm PT
Now we can cut the CIA payroll by a good chunk of change. One deep undercover agent released from the agency. lol

I wonder if all his relatives can now come back to the USA and continue their party with GW.
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2011 - 11:48pm PT
Not me--I've never understood what right the US to go around killing people in foreign countries, without a trial. What if he could have been captured alive?
Remember this guy was never convicted of any crime.

Convicted? No. However, he took credit for 9/11 and in a war, people get killed.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
May 1, 2011 - 11:50pm PT
Not me--I've never understood what right the US to go around killing people in foreign countries, without a trial. What if he could have been captured alive?
Remember this guy was never convicted of any crime.

1) What is your real name?
2) What is your city of origin?

The above determine your credibility here. If you will not respond appropriately, STFU.

3) This guy was a terrorist who claimed responsibility for the deaths of thousands of innocent civilians.

Oh bollocks. You're a wanker. The pres is on.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 1, 2011 - 11:50pm PT
Convicted? No. However, he took credit for 9/11 and in a war, people get killed.

Really?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 1, 2011 - 11:51pm PT
Donald Trump made Obama kill Bin Laden
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
May 1, 2011 - 11:54pm PT
"I seem to remember a time that he distinctly said he didn't have anything to do with 9-11."

Bollocks.

Edit: Maybe he tried to recant his earlier claims when he saw the effort being aimed at him?
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2011 - 11:57pm PT
"I seem to remember a time that he distinctly said he didn't have anything to do with 9-11."

I seem to remember him taking credit for it.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 1, 2011 - 11:57pm PT
So does this justify the means?

More than 100,000 people have been killed, 4,452 Americans killed since 3/19/03, and over a trillion dollars spent.

Soooo, the death of Bin Laden makes up for this and for the 3,000 people killed on 9/11???

WOW
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2011 - 11:59pm PT
Soooo, the death of Bin Laden makes up for this and for the 3,000 people killed on 9/11???

Not whatsoever. I'm just saying good riddance.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 2, 2011 - 12:02am PT
The republicans want to see Bin Laden's death certificate..
OR

Trad climber
May 2, 2011 - 12:04am PT
Cool! A small US team inside Pakistan in a firefight. Seems better than a drone strike.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
May 2, 2011 - 12:04am PT
The republicans want to see Bin Laden's death certificate..

BWAHAhahahahaha.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 12:04am PT
Good speech by the President announcing the termination of Bin Laden.


Time to look at the Pakistan news services for their reaction to our victory
right in their capital city (well a nearby bedroom community)
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2011 - 12:04am PT
Even Fox News is giving props to Obama for his speech.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
May 2, 2011 - 12:13am PT
Holy Shtzizzle, Skipt, Corniss and FuX Noise all praising something done by the secret muslim socialist Black guy.
WTF? I knew when I saw the deadHead sticker on the Escapade that things were gonna get weird.





PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 2, 2011 - 12:18am PT
So are the "birthers" that demanded Obama's birth certificate now going to become the "deathers" and demand Bin Laden's death certificate?
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 2, 2011 - 12:21am PT
What is "justice?"

Our country touts its morality, yet throws it out the window in the face of adversity.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK
May 2, 2011 - 12:21am PT
Nice work..amazing what happens when you make something a priority.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 2, 2011 - 12:22am PT
A bit uncomfortable with the cheering. It could bite us in the butt.


Six foot five and on dialysis,.... I'm making a call tomorrow,.... just saying,...
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 2, 2011 - 12:24am PT
Great news to wake up to here in Japan! Luckily I read the internet with my morning coffee so I found out.

I rushed to the TV to discover that AFN, the overseas Armed Forces Network was running "Who's Smarter than a 5th Grader" right through the president's speech, then an ad about sexual harassment, an ad for The Apprentice which shows tonight, and now they're onto a soap opera?

Probably the programmers in LA were asleep while their prerecorded tape played or they were watching the president's speech on another channel??
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 2, 2011 - 12:24am PT
Apparently a crowd has formed across the street from the White House to cheer, chanting "USA USA."
Seems like we've stooped even lower than I thought . . .
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
May 2, 2011 - 12:25am PT
Good news; my son Is in Middle East fighting.

May I suggest that the news stop showing live coverage of us celebrating?

Many US soldiers will die if thats aired in the middle east. Remember what happened when the Rev burned da book.

Move on to the next sick bastard & kill him too but for f*#k sake don't gloat. Act like you been there & DONE it before.

Rg

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 2, 2011 - 12:25am PT
blahblah, that's what I was referring to.
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2011 - 12:28am PT
The frat party at the White House fence is completely uncalled for.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 2, 2011 - 12:31am PT
Everyone seems to love freedom, but justice is dying.
Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
May 2, 2011 - 12:35am PT
Osama bin Laden dead and gone, very good! Kudos and thanks to the major hard ass dudes who pulled it off. Americans in the streets celebrating like we won the world cup or something, embarrassing.
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2011 - 12:35am PT
Paul, what would you suggest? We try to capture a man who won't go willingly? Who killed so many people? What would you have done if it was your call when you learned where he was?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 2, 2011 - 12:37am PT
Tami's right.

It's not over.

It's like standing on a summit. You still gotta get back to the car, and all kinds of nasty things can still happen.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 12:38am PT
Abbottabad is to Islamabad sort of like Placerville is to Sacramento.




Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2011 - 12:39am PT
This coverage of the 'death party' is disgusting. I'm pleased that we got him, but a party and media coverage of it? Awful.
yo

climber
a tied-off Tomahawk™
May 2, 2011 - 12:45am PT
We should drag the body around the streets so we can all wail and slap it with our Chacos.

corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 12:47am PT
Someone help Brandon with an attitude check. We're all celebrating here
and can't relate to his alien thought process.

Our enemy Bin Laden is dead!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 2, 2011 - 12:50am PT
He's been dead since Sept.11th, 2001.

That was the day Bin Landen basicly committed suicide, by f*#king with us.

It was only a matter of time before we killed him.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
May 2, 2011 - 12:52am PT
Good news for a change! Thanks to all those that brought the sob to justice, A great moment in American history, a great victory, all politics aside. No kidding, the guy was a bastard!

Oh almost forgot: Ding Dong the witch is dead!!!
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 2, 2011 - 12:56am PT
DUDE, he took credit. The evidence was overwhelming! Evidence say's he financed and orchestrated it, etc.!

Actually, he didn't. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Are you familiar with the Gulf of Tonkin incident?
Karen

Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
May 2, 2011 - 12:56am PT
It would be great to string up Bin Laden's body over ground zero and pour melted pig fat down him!!!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 12:56am PT
It isn't over.

We created an Army of OBLs to replace him.

The Boogeyman continues as needed.

Perhaps we will go from "The War on Terror" to what Wernher von Braun said we would eventually do, we would go from "Terrorism," to the war on Invasion by UFOs/ETs.

Perhaps ET will now be the "new" Boogeyman.

The military-industrial-spy-secret space program-complex has to make its trillions off of war profiteering one way or another.

It doesn't end. Don't be fooled.

"There will be Wars and rumors (lies) of Wars"
    Jesus the Christ, Emmanuel, GOD with Us


Osama Bin Laden, CIA asset and creation, biography:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GPEA_enUS301US303&q=osama+bin+laden+biography+cia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1245.htm



OBL not wanted by the FBI. Why?:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=osama+bin+laden+not+wanted&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GPEA_enUS301US303&q=osama+bin+laden+not+wanted+for+9+11

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13664.htm



The Creation of Al Qaeda:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GPEA_enUS301US303&q=creation+and+history+of+al+qaeda+&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/aug/24/alqaida.sciencefictionfantasyandhorror

http://metaexistence.org/fakewar.htm

BBC: Al-Qaeda Never Existed, CIA Creation
"The Power of Nightmares"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKpTmGWh4Tk


Al Qaeda's Dark Secret Exposed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0ZYm2kB99Q&feature=related
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2011 - 12:56am PT
Someone help Brandon with an attitude check. We're all celebrating here
and can't relate to his alien thought process.

Huh? Read the thread dumbass. I'm happy that this happened. I'm not happy that there is a giant frat party celebrating his death.
nb3000

Social climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2011 - 12:58am PT
Fox News Correspondent Geraldo Rivera confirms that Bin Laden was certainly not found in Al Capone's Vault.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 2, 2011 - 01:04am PT
Interesting to note that Bin Landen and his boys *fought* with the U.S. soldiers, yet they were all killed, and not one of our guys was even injured.

Bin Landen himself didn't turn out to be such an effective warrior, after all.
Sioux Juan

Big Wall climber
Costa mesa
May 2, 2011 - 01:07am PT
Lets hope the sh*t don't hit the fan.......
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 2, 2011 - 01:08am PT
Is that because their chosen tactic is ambush and burying IED's...? Rj
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 01:12am PT
So Brandon, you are happy Bin Laden is dead, but you frown on others being happy about it? Or is it assembling and being happy together that disgusts
you?



Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
May 2, 2011 - 01:14am PT
-removed image cuz Chaz didn't get the joke.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 2, 2011 - 01:16am PT
Because Obama's too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 01:16am PT
Obama spoke very well tonight, apparently on quite short notice. He generally struck the right tone, and wasn't vainglorious. The celebrations in places like Washington and New York are understandable, but as mentioned could lead to retaliation attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere.

The action of the US was entirely justified under domestic and international law. Unlike, say, the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

It is interesting that the operation was by a special forces team. That suggests that they were trying to take bin Laden alive, or at least that they wanted to be sure to have a clearly identifiable body. It wouldn't have been hard to bomb the place, after all.

The attacks in 2001 had enormous symbolic impact on the US; let's hope this has similar impact on terrorists and wannabe terrorists, by demonstrating that the US has implacable will to bring them to justice. Perhaps the US overreacted in some ways to 2001, certainly with the invasion of Iraq; hopefully the terrorists will now make a similar error. Although, al Qaeda (or what's left of it), and its fellow travelers, are quite decentralized. So cutting one head off the hydra doesn't necessarily solve all problems.

The fallout in Pakistan may be considerable. That is, what did they know and when did they know it? Were elements of the Pakistani government hiding, or turning a blind eye, to bin Laden and perhaps others? How much did they actually co-operate in the action, and how will that be seen by the Pakistan public?

Our prime minister was in a pickle tonight. He was at a last election rally in a Vancouver suburb, before going back to his 'heartland' (Alberta) to vote tomorrow. 30 or 40 Canadians died in the terrorist attacks, and Canada's military has made a significant contribution in Afghanistan. So he had to say something, without appearing in the slightest bit partisan. Talk about a volte face.
gonamok

climber
dont make me come over there
May 2, 2011 - 01:20am PT
Let it be known to all people, that if you attack America we will hunt you down. It may take awhile, but eventually you will be brought to justice. American justice.

Was this justice? You bet. Bin Laden took full credit for that act of profound cowardice and cruelty. He admitted that he planned and facillitated the mass, random killing of 3,000 innocent American citizens, and he was quite proud of it.

Hopefully its not over. In the christian view of things Mr Bin Laden is standing before god and not feeling so proud anymore.

One of the lowest scumbags in the history of humankind is dead and i couldnt be happier


gonamok

climber
dont make me come over there
May 2, 2011 - 01:22am PT
Because Obama's too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Theres a real intelligent statement. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
WBraun

climber
May 2, 2011 - 01:22am PT
What a fool ^^^^
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2011 - 01:24am PT
CC, I'm not the only one in this thread who has voiced this opinion.

It's called tact, buddy.

PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 2, 2011 - 01:27am PT
^^
Huh? Read the thread dumbass.

You are very tactful
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
May 2, 2011 - 01:29am PT
4 Marine helicopters unloaded a team of 8 per ride, a couple of Air Force CCT's, Navy seals , & a CIA team. All warriors
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 01:29am PT
Right on...that son of a bitch is dead. Piss on his f*#king grave, that nihilist f*#k.

Major kudos to special forces.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 2, 2011 - 01:32am PT
Ahhh. This is not political. The U.S. has been spending enourmous resources over the years to get this guy. While I am pretty much a peacenik, I gotta say that OBL deserved it.

As for the cheering, does anyone remember the cheering in the middle east streets over 9/11? Human nature.

And back to it not being political, there was a great article a while back in one of the "good" mags, like Harper's or something, where the writer got to follow Obama's anti terror team around for 24 hours. They are downright fanatical over avoiding another 9/11. They work on almost zero sleep, right up to the top.

I remember Obama wanting to dismantle some of the Bush tactics, but he ended up keeping them and even enlarging some of them. This took ten years and three presidential terms, but I believe the credit is shared by both Bush and Obama. The president said as much. Bush will get a lot of well deserved cred for this, as well as Obama.

And I am a democrat. Hey, no political party disagrees on this one. I agree that this was way beyond party, and was an American deal. Plain and simple. It was a country, not a party. Those who say otherwise place party above country.

Now hopefully we can pull our people out of the Middle East conflicts, other than the special ops outfits that will always be in those areas.

Afghanistan is going to go down the toilet the day we leave. We could stay forever, but that won't change. Same with Iraq. It is so weak that half of it might as well be annexed by Iran.

But trying to make Obama look good or bad over this is nuts. It is the services that don't change much over administrations that has pulled this off. But Obama is really nuts over terrorists. Those drone strikes have what, tripled? The bad thing is that for every person killed, you will get five or so new jihadists to take their place. So it will never end.

Actually, we have 14 bases in Iraq now and the largest US embassy in the world. Going anywhere "soon"? Nope.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 01:33am PT
Not me--I've never understood what right the US to go around killing people in foreign countries, without a trial. What if he could have been captured alive?
Remember this guy was never convicted of any crime.

Uhhhhh, you don't hold trials in the middle of a war, with the enemy shooting at you. You shoot to kill.

The US was attacked, which was admitted.

when the first artillery shell hits, you want to hold a trial before shooting back?
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2011 - 01:34am PT
OK, I'll make it crystal clear so you guys will leave me alone.

I'm glad that Bin Laden was dealt with.

I think that broadcasting a public party celebrating his death at the White House gate is not tactful. It may only incur more hate and violence toward us. We do not want that.

I am not tactful.

Now I've got to go pick more ticks off of me. Those bastards are everywhere.
WBraun

climber
May 2, 2011 - 01:36am PT
They didn't kill Bin Laden.

You've all been owned .....
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 2, 2011 - 01:37am PT
I'm Dead!







Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 01:41am PT
Anyway, it seems that the theory that bin Laden was being held at the ranch of friends in Crawford, Texas wasn't true after all.
Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado
May 2, 2011 - 01:42am PT
Just killing Osama was going to cause great reactions worldwide and, I expect, security at our installations, bases and embassies was raised before we even heard about OBL's demise.

While the celebrations may be distasteful to some, may further inflame our enemies' passion, they are a familiar sideshow to such victories no matter the civilization currently winning.
jstan

climber
May 2, 2011 - 01:42am PT
I would guess the operation actually failed its primary objective. To take him alive. Of course the
orders under which his guards were probably operating required under no conditions was he to be
captured alive. Very difficult.

I think the evidence is there that Americans are now cast in the posture of a hysterical lynch mob.
Our own government thinks this. They flew a contingent of Saudi's out of the country immediately
after the attack on NYC. So that they might be in no danger. By the way this also signaled the
government knew the nationality of its attackers.

None of this would be expected from "The World's Only Superpower".

All this while China is reportedly sitting on 3.04 trillion in US debt.

Our contact with reality is very much in question.

WBraun

climber
May 2, 2011 - 01:48am PT
It was impossible to take Bin laden alive in this bullshit event since there never was a Bid laden there.

So they just said we killed him.

Simple

You've been Owned ......
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 01:54am PT
jstan has a good point - geopolitics being what it is, some countries may see this, and events over the last ten years, as an opportunity, and also as revealing of US weaknesses as well as strengths.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 01:58am PT
They didn't kill Bin Laden.

You've all been owned .....

And you're moron.

Well done special forces. f*#k yes.
Brandon-

climber
Done With Tobacco
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2011 - 02:01am PT
Hopefully we public will be able to hear the story of how it went down.

Hats off to whoever organized and executed it.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
May 2, 2011 - 02:02am PT
By the way this also signaled the
government knew the nationality of its attackers.

Interesting observation.


Also interesting that Bush's "Mission Accomplished" speech was given on May 1st.

I really don't think that celebrating will cause any more attacks then are going to happen because of the announcement of Bin Ladens death. It will be used as an excuse, but the radicals will already be making attacks. Its probably going to be a rough few days for our troops.

...

Anyone read Sebastian Junger's book "War"? It highlights the addictiveness of combat.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 02:05am PT
Exactly.

No way to ever take OBL live. Can't chance the truth coming out can we?


OBL: "I am AL-CIA-DUH. I do what they have always told me to do. And no I didn't pull-off 9-11. Just look at the official FBI most wanted list. I'm not there. They don't suspect me for doing 9-11. C'mon. Don't you remember? I'm CIA, I was trained to fight the Soviets. But I am the boogeyman when ever they need me."


All that is forbidden secret knowledge. SSSSssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh. Don't tell anyone.






Once again:



Osama Bin Laden, CIA asset and creation, biography:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GPEA_enUS301US303&q=osama+bin+laden+biography+cia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1245.htm

OBL not wanted by the FBI. Why?:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=osama+bin+laden+not+wanted&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GPEA_enUS301US303&q=osama+bin+laden+not+wanted+for+9+11
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13664.htm

The Creation of Al Qaeda:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GPEA_enUS301US303&q=creation+and+history+of+al+qaeda+&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/aug/24/alqaida.sciencefictionfantasyandhorror
http://metaexistence.org/fakewar.htm

BBC: Al-Qaeda Never Existed, CIA Creation
“The Power of Nightmares”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKpTmGWh4Tk

Al Qaeda's Dark Secret Exposed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0ZYm2kB99Q&feature=related

jstan

climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:07am PT
According to reports the event took place a week ago and the news was suppressed until they had
DNA data. Various family members of OBL were not in sympathy with him. Even under DX priority it
would have taken a week to get DNA from several family members, fly it back here and get it
analyzed and confirmed. To make sure they would have had also to take samples from the other
combatants. In the absence of a earlier verified sample from OBL himself it would be necessary to
show only one body belonged to an OBL family member.

I was not able to pick up the live stream of Obama's press conference so I don't know what was said
there. I'll watch it on Youtube tomorrow. Had I been in Obama's boots I would have laid out some
of the data in that report so that doubt might be dealt with right up front.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 2, 2011 - 02:09am PT
Obama said he was killed today.

You don't think Obama would bullshit us, do you?
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 02:09am PT
When reality smacks them in the face, the conspiracy theorists dig deeper into their delusions.

Your ideas have been marginalized and your thoughts are now relegated to the sidelines of irrelevance. Enjoy your isolation.
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:11am PT
no surprise there...
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
May 2, 2011 - 02:15am PT
John, here is a link on Yahoo with Obama's speech.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/president-obama-confirms-osama-bin-laden-s-death-25084937
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 2, 2011 - 02:19am PT

Two of Bin Landen's virgins, arguing over which one has to go first.

Poor bastard.
Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado
May 2, 2011 - 02:20am PT
If the US had intel from August '10 of Osama's whereabouts, I'm guessing they had DNA from family of OBL in country and ready for comparison. JSOC pretty much has their shite together and probably did not have to jet it in for lab results to confirm we had killed THE Osama, not a shill.

Anybody have a real idea how quickly DNA tests can be conducted?
jstan

climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:33am PT
Sounds like the report it happened a week ago was in error. Have to see how this sorts itself out.

Thanks for the link John.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 02:34am PT
Oh the memories come flooding back . . .

How soon people forget.


MM: Fahrenheit 911 Bin Laden Family flown out of the USA right after 9-11-01

Why?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/fahrenheit-911-facts/what-fahrenheit-911-says-about-the-saudi-flights-out-of-the-country-after-september-11


Fahrenheit 911-The Movie-Part 2-Osama BIN LADEN's family flown out of the USA by THE U.S GOVERNMENT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFHREiHDlM



Why would all of the Bin Laden family of the suspected Al Qaeda mastermind of 9-11 be allowed to leave the USA on flights just a few days after 9-11 when most aircraft are still grounded?

Do the family members of a very important CIA asset/boogeyman have privileges? You think?
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
May 2, 2011 - 02:39am PT
Here is an article on the DNA testing of bin laden. It says it can be done in less then 12 hours.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2003/12/61614
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 02:45am PT
"Hijackers Surprised to Find Selves in Hell" (September 2001).

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38673?issue=4228&special=2001
Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado
May 2, 2011 - 02:46am PT
Yeah. S'what I thought. Thanks, John Moosie... and sorry, Werner. Pretty sure they got their man. Unless you want to sit with Klimmer over on the Group W bench.
Sioux Juan

Big Wall climber
Costa mesa
May 2, 2011 - 02:52am PT
Who got the reward money ?
Alti2de

Sport climber
Columbus, Ohio
May 2, 2011 - 02:55am PT
I am struck by the diversity of reactions displayed here... Some relieved, some outright happy, some doubting, even some astonishingly critical that this has occurred... I am particularly surprised that one even seemed to be lamenting the lack of a "trial" for bin Laden... A man who admitted to having been the planner and financier of 9/11. Also, why are the celebrants in Washington and New York being deemed moronic? They are simply celebrating what they see as a victory... Yes, I am sure it's going to piss off terrorists worldwide and there may be repercussions, but human nature is human nature.. Do you not recall the dancing in the streets in the middle east when we were attacked? I do. I am not dancing in the street myself, but this was something that had to be done. And I am glad that it has been done. And for the person who argues that justice has not been done in this instance, I would beg to differ. He was served the same amount of "justice" he delivered to us so many years ago. All my respect to the Intelligence community, JSOC, and the boots on the ground that accomplished this mission.
Jay Wood

Trad climber
Land of God-less fools
May 2, 2011 - 03:01am PT
Bin Laden almost certainly died in December 2001.

Before then, he gave regular, weekly radio addresses. Since then, not a word, except videotapes, some of which are laughably fake.

He had kidney disease, was on dialysis.

The funeral was reported in Arab newspapers.

His death was alluded to in 2002 and on by Bush, Rumsfeld, Oliver North, and others.

http://www.amazon.com/Osama-Bin-Laden-Dead-Alive/dp/1566567831/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
May 2, 2011 - 04:32am PT
well, for one thing this sure proves Obama (not Osama) is no American. Any self respecting American politician would have waited until a week before the election to pull the trigger. ha
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 05:02am PT
At first Bin Laden denied being a part of 9-11

source
"http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/01/bin.laden.obit/index.html?hpt=Sbin"

"In statements released from his hideouts in Afghanistan after September 11, bin Laden denied al Qaeda was responsible for the attacks."

later a video came out with Bin Laden Confessing to 9-11 but many have noted that the man in the video supposed to be Bin Laden has facial features, even bone structure don't really match the Bin Laden we'd been seeing.

Who knows. Judge for yourself, he is "him" confessing

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/osama-bin-laden-s-9-11-confession-2001-25086383;_ylt=AtuewFjlTkOqLojmzIzo3CCz174F;_ylu=X3oDMTEwMzkwdHJpBHBvcwM4BHNlYwNjbGlwcwRzbGsDb3NhbWFiaW5sYWRl

No matter how you slice it. It's amazing how little we've been told about how 9-11 went down. We don't really know the hijackers names. What was Bin Laden's real role versus Kalid S Mohammed? Did they plan it in Germany. What was the Saudi Role?

Peace

karl
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 2, 2011 - 06:12am PT
If the DNA proves the body was his, well then the only thing we know for sure is he is dead and people (many) are happy and sad about it.

I have my own personal feelings about targeted killings/assassinations but it would be presumptuous of me to assume anyone here is interested in that.

I always think it is kind of weird when people dance around and celebrate killings- it creeps me out whether it is some extremist (Muslim or otherwise) dancing and firing their guns in celebrations (witness the downing of the Blackhawk chopper in Mogadishu or the WTC "collapse" to name but two), to a bunch of Americans celebrating the killing of OBL on the streets in the capital. They both strike me as a form of insanity.

I do think it is too bad we were (at least I assume) unable to get OBL alive if for no other reason than to get more info. from him on what went down. That is intel. that will not be forthcoming and in my mind that is very unfortunate. I do not believe in a 'conspiracy' though, just interested in the truth.

I do not understand this word "Justice" either.
Justice for who? For what?
For all the loved ones lost-scratch that-killed as a result of OBL and the military on all sides including so called terrorists? For Iraq, for Afghanistan, for Pakistan, for the USA...

Is that what Justice is? One dies for 'justice' of countless thousands killed?
The dude is dead-so are they. Do you think any of them care now?

Is justice for the living? For the family and friends of the dead?
Is it right to feel some deserve to die while others deserve to live?
What makes us human?
Are we the only animal capable of "inflicting" justice onto others?
Is justice truly a function of our morality?
What is moral and who decides? You? Me? The community? Our elected officials?

These are questions that (I'm guessing) only some will honestly reflect on.

Full disclosure- I believe OBL was a whacked out human that brought about an incredible amount of pain and suffering to others.
It has always seemed to me though that 'death' is the easy way out.

Revenge seems more applicable in this case.

Cheers,
DD
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 2, 2011 - 07:00am PT
Burying Bin Laden at sea, and on the same day in accordance with muslim tradition after confirming his identity was wise.

…putting the body on display in the U.S. would be seen (by Muslims) as mocking Islam … and hard and malevolent by most in the west.

Conspiracy proponents will find concern and diversion with the prompt burial, though…

Either way… Bin Laden will be aggrandized, canonized and memorialized by fanatics and zealots in the middle east.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 2, 2011 - 07:21am PT
"Burying Bin Laden at sea, and on the same day in accordance with muslim tradition after confirming his identity was wise"

I agree.

Cheers,
DD
Top_Rope

Mountain climber
Queenstown, NZ
May 2, 2011 - 07:35am PT
This has made big news down in the Antipodean. We've a sense of well-wishing for everyone in the States as we see this as a small bit of well deserved comeuppance
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
May 2, 2011 - 07:43am PT
I agree with the burying at sea, and the protocol that preceded it. We do not need a grave/monument for this guy that fanatics could worship at.

BTW, I may be in Cali within the next few days, as my sister is on life support at John Muir Hospital in Walnut Creek. It does not look good at all, it is just a matter of time. She is only 57 and has a 15-year-old son that will hopefully end up in guardianship with my brother Mac (the winemaker in Napa) and his wife Kathleen. I have been on the phone and emails to my brothers and relatives all this weekend (today is a bank holiday in Ireland).

It will be a bittersweet visit... firstly a funeral, but secondly Jennie and I have decided to get married in South Lake Tahoe. Marriage in Ireland is so complicated, but in Douglas County (fitting, as my first name is Douglas) it's $60 and find an Elvis preacher. Okay, Elvis is out, but one of my closest and childhood friends, Brian, married Cindy in a chapel next to the lake about 25 years ago. I was there and it was lovely.

Maybe I can get some climbing in at Lover's Leap or around the lake, but probably not.

I called Mac on his 60th b'day on April 3 but he and his estranged wife (they live apart but do a lot together) were off to Tahoe and Mac says "I'll put you on to your god-daughter-in-law", and I am thinking what???

Then this young lady, Grace, comes on the phone. Apparently my nephew Benjamin, after coming back from a seven-month tour in Afghanistan with his Marine unit (he is due to return in October for seven months, but hopefully he won't have to go... he was in regular firefights) decided to marry his high school (Napa HS) sweetheart as soon as he returned in February. Then he will be out. To join the Air Force to be a flight officer.

God-daughter-in-law? Well, he is my godson.
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
May 2, 2011 - 07:47am PT
I'm sitting in the Philly airport right now, getting ready to board a flight. Security was a bit tougher. Interesting vibe in the terminal. Everyone is in a light mood except for the muslims. I'm thinking they either liked the terrorist or hated him but feel persecuted. It is a kind of weird scene. TTFN.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
May 2, 2011 - 08:51am PT
Obama hinted at why it took so long to get him- "It took years of intelligence work..." - Obviously this wasn't possible under the Bush Administration.
OR

Trad climber
May 2, 2011 - 09:11am PT
Media reporting that OBL was using a woman as a human shield when he was shot. Crikey
pat

Trad climber
estes park
May 2, 2011 - 09:29am PT
I'm right there with you DMT, where's the proof?

-Patrick
nature

climber
Krabi, Thailand
May 2, 2011 - 09:31am PT
The proof is that faux news isn't disputing it.
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 09:33am PT
Yea, we should have a traveling circus show, with barkers, "Come and touch OBL's body".

Seriously, do you even think that would satisfy the conspiracy droids?

The right thing was done. There will be plenty of pics and vids later on.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 2, 2011 - 09:37am PT
Dood,
You write as though you had a personal stake in this thing.
Do you?

Or are you just a rubbernecker bystander that is shooting his (her?) wad over this?


"Gotta give credit where credits due!

"Vengeance is mine saith the Lord."

Vengeance served!!"

...and who is 'the lord'?
the dude with the sniper rifle?
Or was 'he' given directions?

Maybe in some weird way you are saying Obama is God.

Sorry but you come off as an extremist yourself.

Cheers,
DD

ps, Patrick sorry to hear about your sister. Be well and congratulations on your upcoming marriage.
Wish I was home in Truckee I'd like to look you up and buy you a beer.

pat

Trad climber
estes park
May 2, 2011 - 09:39am PT
Or we could have what we have now..... nothing? Word of mouth? Correct me if I am wrong, is there at least video of the raid?
nature

climber
Krabi, Thailand
May 2, 2011 - 09:42am PT
pat... give it some time to see what faux news does with it.

Sadly... I hate to say it... but if they don't dispute it, if they don't try and make Obama look bad then there's at least some reason to believe it actually happened.

Of course their agenda isn't news and they wouldn't really know how to tell truth from lies. But if what the spray off as news doesn't undermine anything that isn't republican't then it strikes me there's something possibly real to the story.

Then again they are just a bunch of lying dumbf*#kers so.... there's that.

Give the whole story time. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. The whole burial at sea certainly does stink. Yet on the other hand you can't argue it is the right thing to do in the eyes of muslim people.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 09:48am PT
"Uses the God word..."

Gotta give credit where credits due!

"Vengeance is mine saith the Lord."

Vengeance served!!



GOD had nothing to do with this.

This is all the USA's doing. OBL was CIA. That is a fact. Perhaps he went rogue (like Sarah Palin) but not until he accomplished what the USA wanted him to do, as the go to and the do all boogeyman.

The USA doesn't listen to GOD. Read your Bible. Study up on "Mystery Babylon." There is only one country in the entire World's history that fulfills all the prophecy concerning "Mystery Babylon," and that would be the USA.

If we did listen to GOD, "In GOD we trust," are just words printed on a dollar, then we wouldn't be at WAR. We wouldn't start wars, we wouldn't rumor (lie) about War to get us into more wars. No it is about the MIC and War profiteering. Watch the great film Why We Fight.

When GOD says vengeance is his. It is his alone to do. I didn't see fire, hail, and brimestone falling out the sky to take out US enemies. No, our own sins are upon our own heads.

GOD wouldn't touch this with a light-year long stick.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
May 2, 2011 - 09:50am PT
All praises to Bob!
You infidels will pay for this atrocity...

dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 09:51am PT

…putting the body on display in the U.S. would be seen (by Muslims) as mocking Islam … and hard and malevolent by most in the west.

Agreed Jennie. We don't need a shrine for that SOB.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
May 2, 2011 - 09:53am PT
We kill Osama, have his body, bury it at sea. We need to show some proof of that period. There is no reason we shouldn't have proof, video DNA, something, we had his body in our hands.

I hope it does come out, I am not against killing Osama.

Our government has lied to us so many times, Dems and Republicans. Just off the top of my head, weapons of mass destruction? Clinton and Lewinsky? The list goes on and on, yes our leaders can and do lie to us, quite often in fact.

They say no Americans were killed, then other reports have a copter being shot down? I am not looking at this from a political perspective, I just want cold hard simple proof. I am sick of my government telling me things and just assuming I will believe. Heck, didn't Saddam have like 20 different look alikes or something? If the proof comes out, then no problem, I'll shut up.

-Patrick
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 09:56am PT
DMT, you're sounding like Klimmer.

What would be gained by not getting him then having him turn up a few months from now? That would be an epic level of embarrassment for all involved.
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 09:58am PT
Pat, the other helicopter had mechanical problems and was destroyed by the team.

And there's no such thing as cold hard proof. People will believe what they want to believe.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 2, 2011 - 10:04am PT
well done, mr. president, well done
nature

climber
Krabi, Thailand
May 2, 2011 - 10:13am PT
When loose ends are left laying around the 'klimmers' of the world will tie knots in them. I'm showing you how the knots get tied.


very well said Mr. Milktoast.
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 10:18am PT
Meh. The klimmer's of the world create their own version of reality anyway.
edejom

Boulder climber
Butte, America
May 2, 2011 - 10:23am PT
I wish that I had Bin Laden's wonderful secret on how to reverse the GRAYING PROCESS TO HIS FACIAL HAIR...



We had to make a show out his death--because him dying of liver disease in a cave 5 years ago isn't very newsworthy for anybody.
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 10:23am PT
Photo is already out. Still won't satisfy the deniers.

Ever heard of beard dyeing products Edejom?
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
May 2, 2011 - 10:24am PT
Link to photos of Bin Laden's body, warning NSFW!

CIA Photos of Bin Laden
edejom

Boulder climber
Butte, America
May 2, 2011 - 10:28am PT
monolith--all the time, just that their use by fundamentalist Muslim cave dwellers is pretty much ZERO!


The dude died years ago from liver disease without any fanfare--get over the chest thumping





edit: Seals, CIA, mission, it all sounds incredibly "showy"--I'm happy with just the simple boring facts
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 10:28am PT
Sucks for ya doesn't it.

And he died in a mansion, how ironic.

Do ya think it would have taken anything less then CIA, Seals, etc to get him?
nature

climber
Krabi, Thailand
May 2, 2011 - 10:29am PT
dammit goatboy! he looks good! I'd.... yeah.
edejom

Boulder climber
Butte, America
May 2, 2011 - 10:33am PT
mono--you're saying that the FBI Most Wanted Man, and the hardest person in the world to track down had AN ADDRESS AND A LIVING RESIDENCE THAT WAS A MANSION?????




3 cheers for our Seals and CIA for tracking down this hard to find villain (sarc)







edit: I wonder how hard it was to shoot and kill him lying on his Dialysis Bed in his Mansion??


Hahahahahaha!!!!!









Dude has been sooo dead for 5 years that we WANT to make his death dramatic--pretty sad for all
nature

climber
Krabi, Thailand
May 2, 2011 - 10:38am PT
Hip hip....whoo.... ralph?
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 10:40am PT
The compound had the address, not OBL. And that's assuming they even have addresses. And dialysis is only done only 1 or 2 times a week.
TKingsbury

Trad climber
MT
May 2, 2011 - 10:43am PT
You don't know either way Hutch...just sayin...

I can also understand why Buzz Aldrin punched that dude...
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 2, 2011 - 10:45am PT
"Link to photos of Bin Laden's body, warning NSFW!

CIA Photos of Bin Laden"

Some how I knew you were gonna do that:-)


Dingus- you crack me up...

...as do the rest of you.

Cheers,
DD
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Laramie
May 2, 2011 - 10:56am PT
What will Wyoming's Dick Cheney have say?

Whatever you do you will end up getting to experience the consequences until you die.
edejom

Boulder climber
Butte, America
May 2, 2011 - 10:57am PT
Tom--you're right, I don't know either way.


BUT NEITHER DO YOU FECKERS AND THAT IS THE POINT !!!!



Y'alls logic fits you nice when you want it so--just don't forget the history and what else has been said and posted for this "CIA creation" over the last 10 years.


Occam's razor?


Apply it NOW, people of intellect
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 10:58am PT
edejom is gonna get punched by Obama in the face someday.
edejom

Boulder climber
Butte, America
May 2, 2011 - 10:59am PT
No one gave this person any credibility....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg




































....right up until she was assasinated!
edejom

Boulder climber
Butte, America
May 2, 2011 - 11:06am PT
mono, punching a moot point seems to be your specialty...
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 11:12am PT
You didn't get it did you? Hint: Think moon landing.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
May 2, 2011 - 11:21am PT
Moon landing... conspiracy... who knows.

I'll bet a part of my anatomy than none of us STers' know.


Some of you are gems... or should that be relics in a museum?

Aren't us climbers soooooooo smart. (Rhetorical for those who do not know better.)

Get on with your lives.



BTW, I'll keep that part of my anatomy.
Mason

Trad climber
Yay Area
May 2, 2011 - 11:45am PT
Finally!

Now we can go back to climbing.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 2, 2011 - 11:56am PT
does your god have the gravitas (and hair) to trump bin Laden's god?

Those gods are bridge players? But wait. I thought the muslims and christians had the same god.

Oh, I'm so confused...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 2, 2011 - 11:59am PT
And, the courier that was eventually tracked to Obama's house came from information obtained from a Enemy Combatant detained at Gitmo. Likely gave up the info due to waterboarding.


Oops, Fatty. Wishful thinking?
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
May 2, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 2, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
The head-shot heard around the world.

Nice job, and congrats to U.S. Navy SEALs!!
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 2, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
Dood,

Thanks for your response.
Does sound kinda personal.

Amazing compassion you show for so many.

I stand by my extremist statement, though I was with ya there for a second...until you went off the deep end about god/satan.

I hear ya loud and clear now-




spooky...

Cheers,
DD
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
May 2, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
LIBERALS -- SHUT DOWN GITMO!!!!!!!

HEADLINE TODAY: How’d we find him? Info from detainees. Sweet Guantanamo irony.

Claaaaaaaaaaasic!

Jay Wood

Trad climber
Land of God-less fools
May 2, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
This is worth looking at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi2Mphoaaos&feature=player_embedded
TwistedCrank

climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
May 2, 2011 - 12:18pm PT
Who is "Bin Laden"?
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
May 2, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
Who ever he is, he's just been FIRED. . .
WBraun

climber
May 2, 2011 - 12:23pm PT
Bullwinkle nails it ......
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 2, 2011 - 12:27pm PT
I want to see pics of the body or it didn't happen. Oh wait, we threw the body in the ocean....BUT we have DNA "evidence"

Riiiiiight.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 12:31pm PT
Man you guys are naive and have very short memories . . .

You assume the following is "Conspiracy Theory," whatever that means and has come to mean. Conspiracies do indeed happen. People do conspire together to do wrong, unethical, and illegal acts. Man's History is filled with doing so.



Tell me where I'm wrong?


OBL was CIA during the Afghan/Soviet war. He was our asset. WE supported him. FACT.

The evidence shows that the CIA was instrumental in beginning "The Base" Al Qaeda (aka Al-CIA-Duh). See the sources I posted before including the BBC broadcast called, The Power of Nightmares.

We do not know that OBL was the mastermind behind 9-11-01. It was never thoroughly investigated. The 9-11 Commission Report was a sham. Even members on the commission now say so. They were not told everything. How did OBL get the US military on 9-11-01 to stand down? How does someone in a cave have that kind of influence? FACT. I can go on and on. There are more holes (and bull-dung) in the Official 9-11 Commission Report than Swiss cheese . . .

The FBI did not have OBL on their own Most Wanted list. Why? Because there was no evidence connecting OBL to 9-11. FACT.

After 9-11-01 within days, the Bin Laden family within the US, there were many of them, were allowed to safely fly out of the US before the restriction to fly for everyone else was entirely lifted. FACT. Why is that?

We never intended to capture OBL. And if we did, we would kill him. We never wanted to capture him alive and bring him to trial. Our very own boogeyman knows too many secrets. FACT.



U.S. team's mission was to kill bin Laden, not capture

WASHINGTON | Mon May 2, 2011 8:24am EDT
(Reuters) - The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, not capture him, a U.S. national security official told Reuters.

"This was a kill operation," the official said, making clear there was no desire to try to capture bin Laden alive in Pakistan.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-kill-idUSTRE7413H220110502






Man you guys are gullible.






And GOD doesn't cheer when someone loses their life, their soul, and they are lost forever. He cries and the Angels with him.

Any Christian who cheers at the death of another human being is clue-less. Even Jesus grieved for Judas who betrayed him.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 2, 2011 - 12:35pm PT
Mr Sawyer,

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. That's rough, especially for the young man. It's good to see the uncles stepping up to take care of him, and you and your gal tying the knot. He could use an aunt right now.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
May 2, 2011 - 12:44pm PT
"Pat
Your an idiot

Just off the top of my head, weapons of mass destruction? Clinton and Lewinsky?

You compare these two things

500,000 dead for oil and a lie
compared to a blow job, that was supposed to be a secret, and should of remained a secret!!

The Repubs can only function on lies
The Dems expose the lies"

I'm not talking about the gravity of the lie (I don't disagree with that), I am talking about politicians lying period, pretty common stuff across party lines. Dr. F, you're a f*#king retard if you think only one party has a monopoly on the truth.

-Patrick
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
May 2, 2011 - 12:47pm PT
For all those saying this was a bad thing, what should have we done?
Should we have had the US marshalls issue a warrent or serve him papers and hope he shows up in court. I for one am happy and hopoe that this helps bring this conflict to an end. The college I work at just had a ceremony where we honored quite a few of our students who are being deployed to Afaganastan with the National Guard. Several of them have gotten to be very good friends of mine and I bet they are beaming with pride today over this news. America did not ask to start this and this seems to be one thing we have accomplished in this war.

Do you all think that his killing would have been taken better by his followers if we weren't dancing in the streets.
WBraun

climber
May 2, 2011 - 12:50pm PT
What should have we done?

Tell the fuking truth!

No such thing in this day and age .....
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 12:58pm PT
Dropping the corpse in the ocean, and so more or less conforming with Muslim burial traditions, was likely the best solution. Keeping the body in cold storage, or burying it in a known location, would just create problems. There is big tradition in Islam of pilgrimages to graves.

One assumes that they kept all possible evidence from the body - autopsy, tissue samples, photographs, and so on. Plus whatever corroborating evidence or witnesses that could be found. The backstory may be interesting, as slowly comes out.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 2, 2011 - 01:01pm PT
Two news sevices say Saudi Arabia would not accept Bin Laden's cadaver. (?)

U.S. leaders wanted him buried the same day
so as to not trespass Islamic law.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
How many hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians did Bush kill in Iraq, Fatty?


Ignorant horse's ass.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 01:06pm PT
One more thing I would like to say . . .

Obama is the best Republican President that we have ever had, with the exception of Eisenhower perhaps.

Obama is a shoe-in for 2012.

He played his "Trump" card early.

lol.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
May 2, 2011 - 01:07pm PT

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 2, 2011 - 01:17pm PT
If one more person comes into the needles outpost singing "ding dong bin laden's dead..." ancient art gets it!
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
May 2, 2011 - 01:20pm PT
"Look at your first question to me.

How insulting...

Your a hypocrite, but that is nothing new. "

I looked.
I thought it was a reasonable question, as was the second.

Show me my hypocrisy.

I can understand whacking him- it is the dancing in the streets, the celebratory of death masked in "justice" that rubs me the wrong way.
I felt the same when this was done to us by many in the MS and elsewhere.

If that is hypocrisy then I guess I'm okay with that.

It sounds more to me like revenge for you. If that is the case than call it that.

Sorry if you disagree with me on this.

"...any false religion"

Ahh-that is enlightening.

Cheers,
DD

Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
May 2, 2011 - 01:24pm PT
This morning on the Diane Rehm show there was an excellent dicussion on this topic. I think you can listen to on the web.

The CIA has know that bin Laden Osama was at this compound long enough for them to build a mockup of the buildings at the Navy Seals base in Afganistan. The Seals practiced various attacks depending on the number of people who were protecting bin Laden. President Obama gave the order last friday.

These were the guests:

John McLaughlin former acting director of the CIA and now senior fellow at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies.

Yochi Dreazen senior national security correspondent, National Journal magazine.

Paul Pillar director, graduate studies at the Center for Peace and Security Studies at Georgetown University and a former CIA National Intelligence officer

Ahmed Rashid Pakistani journalist and author. A second edition of his book "Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia " has just been published. His other books include “Descent into Chaos” and “Jihad.”

PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 2, 2011 - 01:29pm PT
So a Seal team did in 1 night what an entire Army couldn't do it 10 years?
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 01:31pm PT
No matter how this went down, Werner and Klimmer would interpret it as a lie. Thats why your opinions are irrelevant.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 2, 2011 - 01:33pm PT
The Commemorative T-Shirt's out today.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/hottopics/detail?entry_id=88133&tsp=1

Not as quick as we were in the late 80's, getting Superbowl Shirts printed on the day of the Conference Championships, sometimes while the second game was still being played, but quick nonetheless.



Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
Prove us wrong Port.

Anytime now . . . anytime.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
May 2, 2011 - 01:35pm PT
Ignorant horse's ass.
Amen. Is there ever an intelligent thought that emanates from that man. If so, I have yet to hear it. Makes you wonder about the drivel that must spill when he and his GOP buddies get together.

Pretty ambivalent about Osama's death. If it means that there's a smaller likelihood of additional terrorist attacks, great, though there are likely many vying to fill his place. Other than that, the guy's pretty much just a symbol at this point. I'm waiting till Dick Cheney dies before I crack open the bubbly.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
May 2, 2011 - 01:36pm PT
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 01:38pm PT
Buried at sea!! That's just too funny!

Cause Obama just put down the right wing conspiracy theory that he wasn't born in the US, but now this is going to bring up all kinds of Right wing conspiracy theories (which may be true, I don't know)

Cause it's been reported long ago that Bin Laden was dead, and no sure signs of him for years either, no Obama says they killed him and buried him at sea but there will be no trial, no conclusive proof. People will go nuts!

and that's even if they actually got the real Bin Laden!!

What if Bin Laden was dead years ago and Bush and the intelligence insiders knew it!?? They could either step forward and accuse Obama and thus blow the cover on their own lies, or let him have a made up victory!! And people might not believe them!

Yuk Yuk. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe Obama's setting them up to rave Bin Laden conspiracy to look nutty, even if it's true!

Perhaps it could be seen as wise if they shot him in bed when they could have captured him. The trial might have inflamed things but, on the other hand, now he is a martyr killed in battle, no good. And we've seen very little evidence of his 9-11 involvement. No better informant that OBL and the people right next to him. Did they take no prisoners? I mean, these would be the very best prisoners possible in the war on terror, the closest insiders of all?

No prisoners would be as lame and suspicious as the burial at sea if you ask me. We risk the killing of troops every day and they do die so safety for the team isn't the best excuse if you ask me.

Peace

Karl
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
What do you mean right wing conspiracy Karl? Haven't you been reading this thread? The left wings going strong! Any right wing nut jobs will be overshadowed by the left. It's gonna be fun watching them work to the same ends.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 01:42pm PT
Prove us wrong Port.

There is never proof (outside of mathematics), only evidence. This is a mistake you commonly make. And that evidence will be slowly released. But you, you've already formed your conclusions before seen anything. Your bias towards paranoia renders you incapable of lucid evidence evaluation.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 01:46pm PT
What evidence have you evaluated port?

Cheers bro
DMT

Someone was killed last night, it was likely Bin Laden.... I'll take their word for it until there is sufficient evidence showing otherwise.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
May 2, 2011 - 01:47pm PT
Glad he's dead. Wonder what that says about my character? I'm not perfect.

Bring him to court? I don't think that would help anybody. That would be very expensive and fuel the frenzy much longer than a quick execution. Take the heat for his execution and move on. International law doesn't really exist. One of the principles had something to do with who was fair game in an armed conflict. So I am quite sure that OBL never played by those rules.

Pakistan is glad that this man hunt is over. They'll try to appease everyone. The US will take the heat. That's OK.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 2, 2011 - 01:48pm PT
Any bets on how long till Roxinhishead swaps one dead mass murderer for a new one as his avitar?
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 01:49pm PT
What evidence would convince you DMT?

Do you need to personally do the DNA test?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 01:52pm PT
Port,

I gave you the bullet points and even links earlier to check into it. Have you? Doubt it. These aren't my sources and evidence. I didn't make this up. Facts are facts. The evidence is there if you want it.


By the way, I'm not one argueing the body isn't OBL. What I'm argueing is that he was ours, he may have gone rogue (who really knows, perhaps he was still a CIA asset), he certainly was a very handy boogeyman over the many years, he didn't really have anything to do with 9-11, he was the all famous "patsy" that we had to create and then hate. We were not about to bring him to trial. He knows too much. So we killed him. No trial. Just guilt based on no evidence. Wow, that is incredible justice. (sarcasm)

Guilty. Kill him.

Who will be next?

Is that how we do it America now?
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 01:54pm PT
Hey Klimmer, when are you going to make some crappy 3D pics of the compound?

The Google earth shots are already out there.

Yea, I know DMT, nothing will convince you either way. But we both know we don't live our lives like that. We make decisions by probability and impact of outcomes.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
I won't believe it until I personally examine the long form death certificate.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
May 2, 2011 - 01:56pm PT
Roger Breedlove said...This morning on the Diane Rehm show there was an excellent dicussion on this topic. I think you can listen to on the web.

The CIA has know that bin Laden Osama was at this compound long enough for them to build a mockup of the buildings at the Navy Seals base in Afganistan. The Seals practiced various attacks depending on the number of people who were protecting bin Laden. President Obama gave the order last friday.

These were the guests:

John McLaughlin
former acting director of the CIA and now senior fellow at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies.

Yochi Dreazen
senior national security correspondent, National Journal magazine.

Paul Pillar
director, graduate studies at the Center for Peace and Security Studies at Georgetown University and a former CIA National Intelligence officer

Ahmed Rashid
Pakistani journalist and author. A second edition of his book "Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia " has just been published. His other books include “Descent into Chaos” and “Jihad.”

Here is the link to that show.
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-05-02/reaction-death-osama-bin-laden
Chris2

Trad climber
May 2, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
Why was "Fixed News" calling Osama; Usama? What was that about?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 02:00pm PT
continually factual challenged
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 2, 2011 - 02:02pm PT
Twitter from an unwitting witness.

http://twitter.com/#!/ReallyVirtual
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:09pm PT
A body means nothing DMT. Only a dna test can confirm to the reasonable, and those can be faked, so people can still believe what they want to believe.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
I concur about the rest of your statement. Ours is a fuzzy world where our brains piece together a picture out of incomplete information. Such as it has always been. Therefore it should be of no surprise that no two visions are exactly alike.

I completely agree with that statement. But If it wasn't him, Bin Laden will release another video to make fools of the CIA.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
Gene

climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
White House briefing just started.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live
Chris2

Trad climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:17pm PT
Thanks skipt.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 02:17pm PT
Thanks Gene!
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:28pm PT
Nobody is going to deny a DNA test, if open and credible.


And how ya gonna do that RJ?
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 02:29pm PT
And beside, all this is in violation of American and International Law.




If Bin Lauden was a crook, we were suppose to provide a live catch if possible and a trial. That is often done through negotiations with affected governemnts. If BL was a nationalist leader, capable of declareing wars, then we are REQUIRED to NOT TARGET HIM. And to bring him to court.

Like at the Haige.



THIS operation violated TWO nations laws, and maybe the constitution of Afganistan, also, if the mission was staged in or over it. We are suppose to agree not to attack its neighbors...

rj, you may not win the most hated ST poster, but keep up with this crap and you will be in the running for most ignorant...
Chris2

Trad climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:35pm PT
"I really don't spend that much time on it..." George Bush http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o
Sioux Juan

Big Wall climber
Costa mesa
May 2, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
$27,ooo,ooo bounty ?????
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:43pm PT
DISGUSTING LIBERALS:

Nancy Pelosi, press conference, September 7, 2006:

[E]ven if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done ... is done. And even to capture him now I don't think makes us any safer.

Nancy Pelosi, earlier today:

The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. ... I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. ... [T]he death of Osama bin Laden is historic....

shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:45pm PT
DISGUSTING LIBERALS:

More information is coming out about how American intelligence identified and tracked down the al Qaeda courier who led to Osama bin Laden. It appears that the CIA's interrogations of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Faraj al-Libi provided the information that began the chain the culminated in bin Laden's death yesterday:

"Officials say CIA interrogators in secret overseas prisons developed the first strands of information that ultimately led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Current and former U.S. officials say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden's most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed's successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania."

KSM and Libi are two of the three al Qaeda leaders who were waterboarded. Published accounts indicate that waterboarding was key to getting valuable information from them.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 2, 2011 - 02:46pm PT
Achilles knew how to dispose of a body and destroy the will of his opponents at the same time.



Yeah,

Could have fed him to Mr. Wu's pigs.

Or at least bacon wrapped him before feeding the fishies, but then that would be a waste of perfectly good bacon.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 2, 2011 - 02:47pm PT
Feed him to the hogs.

Video tape it, and make sure Al Jazeera gets a copy.
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 02:47pm PT
INTEL FROM GITMO AND WATERBOARDING USED TO FIND AND KILL BIN LADEN.

LIBS ARE STRONGLY AGAINST BOTH.

AGAIN -- DISGUSTING LIBERALS.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 02:51pm PT
Fatty: no such thing as innocent civilians in war



What an incredibly stupid statement.


Tell that to the MILLIONS of truly innocent "civilians" killed just in "modern" times alone.


What a dumb fuk thing to say.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 2, 2011 - 02:53pm PT
SUAP...grabbing straws. Obama did in two years what your war mongering Bush couldn't do in eight. Shut the f*#k up and go back into the hole you came out of.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 02:54pm PT
hahaha good one fort.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 2, 2011 - 02:55pm PT
Fat wrote: I don't believe in "innocent" civilians, not in modern warfare. But, I suspect you libs and Obama does.

What a dumb %$#@!...say anything to try and save face.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 2, 2011 - 02:56pm PT
Obama said when he came into office he told Leon Panetta the first priority in the war on al queda was OBL. First of all the war on the people that attacked us not on "terror" a faceless method of coercion. Obama +1. And he focused on the leader of the people that attacked us not saddam Hussein +2

On another note how badass of a mission was that? Helis in the dark of night. No "permission" from Pakis. Drop off about 30 of the most badass dudes on the planet I hope we see the video some day
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
Norton,

I don't believe in "innocent" civilians, not in modern warfare.



The evil one
---------------


WTF? No such thing as innocent civilians in war.

Can anyone believe that Fattrad actually said this?

Fuking incredible.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 02:58pm PT
Norton,

I don't believe in "innocent" civilians, not in modern warfare.



The Dumbest One of ALL
micronut

Trad climber
fresno, ca
May 2, 2011 - 03:00pm PT
I love watching the Taco in action!

I'm heading back over to the Stoner's Highway page....By the way Fort, that is priceless.....
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 2, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
The Fet...the dumb sh#t republicans just don't get it. Obama did what he set out to do. Kill the man who plan the attack on the US on 9/11/2001.
cleo

Social climber
Berkeley, CA
May 2, 2011 - 03:06pm PT
Pakistani newspaper releases photos:
http://www.sabah.com.tr/Dunya/2011/05/02/bin-ladinin-cesedi
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
If they released the video, that would be remarkable.

Cause the story that OBL used a woman as a human shield is just too convenient to make him look like a coward.

Remember Jessica Lynches rescue, where the military claimed a daring rescue against a defended compound where really it was completely undefended and the "enemy" had actually tried to return her earlier but been shot at?

Or how about Tilman's death

Even there's plenty of evidence we didn't get the truth about the time and circumstances of Saddam's capture.

I neither believe not disbelieve anything I hear about this operation. The military has lately proved they care nothing for truth but just make up stories of convenience.

Maybe we'll never know, but this should be an interesting show coming up.

Wonder what "Al Queda" will say? Not that I trust them either. The US basically created them to fight the soviets in Afghanistan

Peace

Karl
Gene

climber
May 2, 2011 - 03:10pm PT
Cleo,

Those pictures have been discredited as hoaxes.
http://www.euronews.net/2011/05/02/dead-bin-laden-photo-is-a-fake/
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 2, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
No one who knows anything about this thinks that OBL planned the 9/11 attack.
And you call other people ignorant . . .
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 03:14pm PT
Isn't blahblah right about this?


OBL may have taken credit for 911 after it was all over.

But what's his name Saudi mastermind was captured and admitted he planned it all.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 03:15pm PT
Cause the story that OBL used a woman as a human shield is just too convenient to make him look like a coward.


karl, i have seen reports that the woman was used as a shield by one of the other terrorists not OBL. have you read differently or are you talking out your ass?
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 03:16pm PT
Yep, Karl's just creating the story he wants to ridicule.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 03:17pm PT
Just referencing other people's ass talking higher on this thread

Peace

Karl

CC posted

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 2, 2011 - 03:21pm PT
Can we go home now?
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 03:25pm PT
Just referencing other people's ass talking higher on this thread


ahhhhh.....it was posted on supertopo so it must be true! i feel better now.
Mangy Peasant

Social climber
Riverside, CA
May 2, 2011 - 03:30pm PT
In July 2008, CNN's Larry King interviewed then-presidential candidate John McCain. The host asked the Republican senator, "If you were president and knew that bin Laden was in Pakistan, you know where, would you have U.S. forces go in after him?"

McCain said he would not.

"Larry, I'm not going to go there and here's why: because Pakistan is a sovereign nation."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0807/28/lkl.01.html
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 2, 2011 - 03:32pm PT
The Taiwanese animated version is out.

http://www.rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=321666&D=2011-05-02&SO=&HC=1

Rantburg does not allow non subscriber access to archived material so here's the YouTube link for later

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DUiDyrkU0WAQ%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded


Not particularly work safe
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 03:33pm PT
proof that fattards repugnants are sissies.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 03:44pm PT
Hawkeye wrote

karl, i have seen reports that the woman was used as a shield by one of the other terrorists not OBL. have you read differently or are you talking out your ass?

THis posted on CNN today

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/obama-to-make-statment-tonight-subject-unknown/?hpt=T1

[Updated 2:30 p.m. ET] A woman shielded Osama bin Laden from gunfire during the assault by U.S. forces, President Barack Obama's top counterterrorism adviser said Monday.


"There was a female who was in fact in the line of fire that reportedly was used as a shield to shield bin Laden from the incoming fire," said John Brennan, Obama's adviser on homeland security and counterterrorism.

Brennan said it was his understanding that bin Laden picked up a weapon and was killed in the firefight with the U.S. forces carrying out the assault.

"He was engaged in a firefight," Brennan said of bin Laden. "Whether or not he got off any rounds, I don't know."
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
May 2, 2011 - 03:45pm PT
But Ron, Pak is an important ally. We need their cooperation to make sure that countries like N. Korea don't get nukes... oops.
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 03:52pm PT
Doesn't say Bin Laden used her as a shield, Karl. Just that she was in the way, or acted as a shield voluntarily, or was used by someone else. She was one of the wives, so she might have done something stupid to help.

Also, a woman was killed when one of the al Qaida operatives used her as a human shield, White House officials said.
Gene

climber
May 2, 2011 - 04:09pm PT
The news conference dude said he used her as a shield and indicated in a round about way (that was a painful pun, so too was this) that she took a bullet too. At least that's what I seemed to hear.

I thought speaker-man kinda waffled on that and indicated that maybe (1) she was a shield by choice, (2) OBL put her in the line of fire, or (3) she was between OBL and the shooters and thus was killed. One of OBL’s wives I think(?).
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 04:30pm PT
Our country (and some others as well) are killing innocent people every day in our wars, even in countries that didn't attack us. Bin Laden was "evil" in some way, killing innocents on 9-11 (although we've seen precious little evidence of his involvement), but we turned him into a bogyman to support killing far more innocents than he ever dreamed of.

But let's stop being evil, killing innocents in the way Bin Laden did. He had his "justifications" pointing to US foreign Policies oppressing Islamic countries and we have ours. Every time we support an oppressive king or dictator in the middle east, we give justification to terrorists to fight us. (what would we do if somehow the middle east somehow installed a dictator here?)

And yet we use terrorist acts here to justify endless wars in other countries, thinking that's justified. We believe what we want to believe and have incredible double standards.

We place such importance on these symbols like Bin Laden. The wheels of economic empire backed by military force keep turning and use bogymen like him to keep public opinion behind the bombing.

Bye Bye Bin Laden, former CIA operative. You were replaced by Saddam Hussien in 2003 anway when we wanted a new war, and just became a mystery. Now we have Gaddafi (but not the Saudi King)

We're told who is the demon and focus on that. It's a puppet shadow play even if the demon is actually bad. Who dies and whose country gets bombed are different matters

Peace

Karl
WBraun

climber
May 2, 2011 - 04:39pm PT
People believe everything they read in the news.

Such sheep.

corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 04:42pm PT
Karl - well put, but as its often said 'The Show Must Go On!'
If it wasn't this particular puppet show it'd be another.




Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 04:45pm PT
It will be interesting to hear exactly what happened, including the events leading up to the attack, and how bin Laden died. Hopefully not by someone pulling the plug on his dialysis machine... There must be a great deal of evidence about what happened, although with the fog of war, putting the pieces together may take time. As with identification of the body, I'd guess they'll be very thorough about it - there are enough whackjob conspiracy theories floating around already.

As I mentioned earlier, the fact that it was a ground rather than aerial assault indicates that they wanted an identifiable body, if not a prisoner.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 04:47pm PT
there are enough whackjob conspiracy theories floating around already


hehe.. klimmer and rokjerx are dreaming one up now.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 04:48pm PT
A mansion that was so close to the military academy that only a few days
before bin Laden was killed, he would have been able to stick his head out a
window and hear Pakistan's top soldier, General Ashfaq Kayani, addressing
cadets at a passing-out parade.

AUS news story w heavy sarcasm for Pak's claimed ignorance.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/pakistan-a-haven-for-enemy-no-1/story-fn8ljzlv-1226048746730

PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
May 2, 2011 - 04:52pm PT
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." --Martin Luther King, Jr
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 04:54pm PT
i am good with saying that the SEALs loved the guy to death. works for me.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
May 2, 2011 - 04:56pm PT
When "civilians" are the the ones producing the bombs, bullets, food, boots, uniforms, etc., then they no longer are "innocent". Perhaps in ancient cultures, where the warriors hunted their own food, made their own weapons, then there were "innocents". Hence the bombing of factories, infrastucture and food stocks in modern warfare.

Curtis LeMay would be proud of you, fattrad.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 2, 2011 - 05:00pm PT
Quick question to anyone who claims knowledge of "international law" or Pakistani domestic law--
Why isn't it murder when US special forces go into Pakistan and kill civilians?

Let's say Gaddafi is pissed off at some Libyan living in the US and sends a Libyan military hit squad into the US to kill said Libyan, and they do. Sure seems like Gaddafi and the members of that hit squad have all committed murder under US law.
Remember that the US is not officially at war with anyone now, certainly not Pakistan. And even if what Obama (and the hit squad) does is legal under US law (which I'm not sure about), how is it legal under Pakistan law (which I'm really not sure about)?


I know a lot of you don't like the implications of this but this is a SERIOUS question. I'm not blaming Obama specifically because he is just doing what the Republicans would also do (and did), although he does seem to have extra relish for drone strikes and the like.

Maybe there is an answer to this, but it's not obvious to me and I would really like to know.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." --Martin Luther King, Jr


Paul, thanks for posting that truth from MLK.








bahhh Hawkeye.. Im sure they gave a very loving double tap to his cran-eee-ummm. And Martin Luther King never saw an enemy like bin-waden. The only thing better would have been to feed him to a bunch of freekin hawgs....;-) Now wait for the attack-to remind-us that jihad still goes on.


RA,

Sure he did. They killed him. Read Act of State. MLK knew all too well. In fact, it probably is one and the same if truth be told, and we knew the full truth of the entire matter.
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:18pm PT
INTEL FROM GITMO AND WATERBOARDING USED TO FIND AND KILL BIN LADEN.

LIBS ARE STRONGLY AGAINST BOTH.

AGAIN -- DISGUSTING LIBERALS.

shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:20pm PT
LIBERALS = BUSH CAUSED 911! NOW = HOORAY FOR BARRY HUSSEIN FOR KILLING OSAMA, THE MASTERMIND OF 911. See any incongruity?

Headline: Capture seen as vindication for 'harshest interrogation methods'...
Poor liberals -- what are you going to say now about waterboarding and Gitmo?
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:21pm PT
ONE QUESTION TO ALL THE LIBERALS IN HERE:

WHAT JUSTIFICATION DID BARRY HUSSEIN USE TO ASSASSINATE OSAMA?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 05:23pm PT
Assume that someone was tortured at Guantanamo into revealing the name and perhaps other information about an al Qaeda operative, four or five or more years ago. Pretty distant connection from that to yesterday's operation. I suspect that there were multiple sources of intelligence, and perhaps even that the Pakistani government threw bin Laden to the US once it became clear that the jig was up. It seems certain that there was an enormous amount of work to follow up and confirm a tenuous lead, and make something of it - which is the real work.

At this point, it's mostly mental speculations anyway. The full story won't come out for a while, if ever.
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:25pm PT
LIBS = Waterboarding is torrrrrrrrture! Be nice to the terrorists so they won't attack us! Gitmo causes the barbarians to attack us!

Lets see:
1. Gitmo open and doing business under Obama? Yup.
2. Patriot Act repealed under the Dems? Nope.
3. KSM 911 mastermind tried in NYC as Obama promised? Nope.
4. Waterboarding used to get the intel that led to OBL's death? Yup.

Hey libs -- do you ever get tired of just being plain-ass wrong all the time?
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:27pm PT
OBAMA -- MAKING THE MUSLIM WORLD OUR FRIEND AS PROMISED?

HEADLINES:
Obama: U.S. Carried Out Operation 'At My Direction'...
Killing brings anger in Arab world...
Pakistanis rally to pay homage to bin Laden...
Musharraf: Mission violated sovereignty...
Hamas condemns killing of 'holy warrior'...
Arabs Riot in Jerusalem Over Death...
Chris2

Trad climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
^Please, apply your user name to self.^
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
BUT WAIT -- OBAMA PROMISED TO BRING HIM TO JUSTICE HERE IN THE U.S., AND NOW HE RESORTS TO ASSASSINATION?


SHOT IN HEAD; BIN LADEN IS DEAD.....

Wow -- the liberals' minds must be swimming with all these contradictions.
Namely -- how do we reconcile our appeasing-the-terrorists beliefs with our hopey-changey president who just ordered the murder of an individual on foreign soil?

Ahhhh the contradictions are tooo fun!
Park Rat

Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
May 2, 2011 - 05:31pm PT
I went to Google Earth and put in ABBOTTABAD PAKISTAN OSAMA BIN Laden's compound hideout.

You get a great picture of his place relative to the town.

I think we can say his fate was Sealed today.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
But the usual fantasists insist on thinking there's something fishy about it all. And Obama is sleeping with the fishes.

(Yes, I know that a seal isn't a fish.)
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
CAN'T. STOP. LAUGHING. MUST. LIE. DOWN.

The Irony Grows Deeper – Key Intel Came From Enhanced Interrogations In Secret Prisons.

Information from Guantanamo detainees made it possible to locate bin Laden.

They told me that if I voted for McCain, we’d get a continuation of Bush’s wartime policies. AND THEY WERE RIGHT!

“A Nobel peace prize winner carrying out a successful assassination!”

WHAT ABOUT THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS? Mission was to kill Bin Laden, not capture. “The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, not capture him, a U.S. national security official told Reuters.”

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 05:36pm PT
Yo Shut Up,

Did I not say Obama is the best Republican president since Eisenhower?


Edit:

The differnece between Dems and Independants vs. Repugs is that we think on our own. We can be critical of our own, and we call them out when they are screwing up.

The Repugs just don't think at all. The Repugs worship at the feet of their masters no matter what, and swallow hook, line, and sinker and enjoy it and then they want more of the same. They will vote against their own self-interest time and time again.

We won't. We learn.
Captain...or Skully

climber
or some such
May 2, 2011 - 05:36pm PT
A seal isn't a fish? But it's STILL a Squid!

Sorry, I'm with MLK & Bob on this. No hate. Hate is for lesser creatures.
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:39pm PT
LAUGHING. SO. HARD. MUST. CATCH. BREATH.

In early 2004, Howard Dean — who was then leading the Democratic presidential field and would go on to become chairman of the Democratic National Committee — explained that he could not judge what should befall bin Laden because the terror master had not yet had a fair trial and been convicted by a jury. Those in “positions of executive power,” he declaimed, should not “prejudge jury trials.”

OBAMA NOW: Obama: U.S. Carried Out Operation 'At My Direction'...
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 05:40pm PT
THE. LAUGHTER. JUST. WON'T. STOP.

Immediately after 9/11, when Democrats had been anxious to prove they could be just as tough on terrorists as Bush, Eric Holder had admonished a CNN host that “we are in the middle of a war,” and thus that captured terrorists should be detained without trial as “combatants” — in addition to being denied Geneva Convention rights so that “we . . . have an opportunity to interrogate them and find out what their future plans might be, where other cells are located.” But by 2008, while serving as a senior adviser to the Obama campaign, Holder was bemoaning Bush’s failure to treat captured terrorists “in accordance with the Geneva Conventions,” and condemning Bush counterterrorism as a green light for “torture” and a betrayal of the “rule of law.”
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 2, 2011 - 05:40pm PT
The full tilt meltdown of SUAP is almost as cool as Bin Laden getting chopped. Almost.

Justice was death penalty. Crime was confessed to loudly. I'd say he was brought to justice, and unlike McCain who said during the election tjat he would never go after Bin Laden in Pakistan without their approval, Obama said he'd wack him with or without their approval.

Don't do anything rash SUAP, after the denial and the anger pass, you can move on to the other stages of grief: bargaining "well, it was REALLY Bush who got him because...", then acceptance "yes, the black President intimidates me and makes me question my manhood, but I guess he did good on this one". LMFAO.
Captain...or Skully

climber
or some such
May 2, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
Like Elvis? Or WITH Elvis?
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
May 2, 2011 - 05:53pm PT


This is about warriors doing their job plain & simple. Those guys would do their job for free; born killers. They were breed to do it. War & death are normal, poltics & religion just give them a reason.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 06:03pm PT
Obama should have walked up to the podium and said "Here's my birth certificate, bitch" and then pulled OBL's head out of a bag and dropped it on the floor. Then he shoulda pimp stepped out of there tossing a peace sign.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 06:03pm PT
The Repugs just don't think at all. The Repugs worship at the feet of their masters no matter what, and swallow hook, line, and sinker and enjoy it and then they want more of the same. They will vote against their own self-interest time and time again.

A shallow and misinformed understanding of republican politics.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 2, 2011 - 06:04pm PT

Personally, I believe a trial would have been preferable to Usama's assassination, but the Right would bitch either way.

I don't give a crap what you "believe" but I would like to know what is accordance with THE LAW!
Last time I checked, when you go around KILLING people, that is murder (unless it is pursuant to a valid court order).
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
They were able to fairly try the Nazis after World War II, in the full glare of the public. Including some big fish - Hermann Goering and company were in a different league entirely from bin Laden. Somewhat victor's justice, but it was a precedent.

The big difference being that bin Laden and al Qaeda are simply ideologically-motivated mass murderers, and didn't act for a state. It might have been a stretch to argue that they met the international legal definition of war criminals. A trial might have been embarrassing, a soapbox, and perhaps revealed some secrets, but was feasible. But it is difficult to argue that it was unjust that he was shot while resisting arrest.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 06:11pm PT
fatty said
[Pakistan] often supports the Taliban.



Fixed that for ya
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 06:12pm PT
I wonder if the body is actually in a container full of formaldehyde, with a transponder, in a known location in the ocean, maybe with fairly shallow water? Just in case, as it were. (But tied to a big rock.)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 2, 2011 - 06:14pm PT
I would wager ten to one that however many people were in that compound is the number that were killed. The SEALS weren't there to take prisoners. Two to the head and one to the chest, "Just to make sure he was dead." Harsh, but that's the reality with Black Ops.

JL
Captain...or Skully

climber
or some such
May 2, 2011 - 06:14pm PT
I'd have mulched him. It's a shame to waste good mulch.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 06:25pm PT
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 2, 2011 - 06:31pm PT
BES1'st is NOT from the USA.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 06:32pm PT
Hey Klimmer,

I was in DC, across the river from the Pentagon. I saw the plane hit. I made it back to my office near the Capitol, sent everyone home (there were rumors of another plane targeting the Capitol - turned out to be flight 93), and walked the 5 miles home to my girlfriend, who'd moved to DC two days before.

Looks like we have an eyewitness to the attack at the pentagon on supertopo. Ready to admit you're wrong?

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1485177&tn=20
Gene

climber
May 2, 2011 - 06:33pm PT
BES1'st is NOT from the USA.


BES1'st is the USA.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
May 2, 2011 - 06:45pm PT
Obama should have walked up to the podium and said "Here's my birth certificate, bitch" and then pulled OBL's head out of a bag and dropped it on the floor. Then he shoulda pimp stepped out of there tossing a peace sign.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 06:48pm PT
Fatty:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/osama-bin-laden-dead.html?hp


The compound, only about a third of a mile from a military academy of the Pakistani Army, is at the end of a narrow dirt road and is roughly eight times the size of other homes in the area.


Pakistan: Our ally in the war on terror.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 2, 2011 - 06:51pm PT
BES1'st is NOT from the USA.

You sure he's even from this planet?
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
May 2, 2011 - 06:52pm PT
Bin Laden is dead , but we still have rap bolters and hip hop music.......we need to go after them next......
BrianH

Trad climber
santa fe
May 2, 2011 - 06:55pm PT
I do think it's not a good idea to crow too loudly over the death of one's opponent. In victory one can afford to be magnanimous.

But this is funny as hell.

Bin Laden Dead: Video animation of terrorist leader's final moments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw0AXjAaf3g

cintune

climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
May 2, 2011 - 07:03pm PT
Latest reports claim that bin Laden didn't take a shower yesterday.























He figured he could just wash up on shore.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 07:05pm PT
Fatty said
Pakistan doesn't know what to do


Why are you such an apologist for those that aid our enemies? Why do you hate America?


fatty continued
Forward to join the modern world or backward


Are you talking about Pakistan now or America? Supporting torture. Unlimited detention. Trials without integrity.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 07:17pm PT
Things we hope happened....


Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 07:18pm PT
I used to think Corniss was the dumbest fuk to ever post here.

But lately, Fattrad has taken over that title.

His postings have gotten increasingly irrational, sophomoric.

He seems to have only one agenda, and that is to find something, no matter how convoluted and trivial, to denigrate the President.

At a time when many Americans are openly celebrating the death of Bin Laden

Fattrad grasps to find something, anything, to criticize. Now he claims that the

President broke international law, and claims the President killed innocent civilians.



Fattrad is becoming pathological, irrational, mean, trite, and frankly a real horse's ass.


edit: yes, Dirt I saw that. But our boy here just can't bring himself to give the slightest credit without at the same time finding some way to insult the President.
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:19pm PT
Norton, even Rush gave Obama a lot of credit for this.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 07:24pm PT
Skip, I don't get it. What is with those guys getting hurt working on the house?

Your point?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 07:26pm PT
Some have claimed it is unseemly to openly celebrate defeating a foe, much like the US was offended when some in Arab streets celebrated 9-11

So while it's questionable that Obama broke in on Donald Trump's show to announce the killing of OBL, he gracefully avoided any direct reference like "Put that in your pipe and smoke it Don Boy!"

Behind closed door, you have to wonder if he's got a smug bliss about this

:-0
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 07:27pm PT
Norton - that's why we all like you so much. Always looking for meaning
in a chaotic world devoid of all meaning.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 2, 2011 - 07:29pm PT
So while it's questionable that Obama broke in on Donald Trump's show to announce the killing of OBL

Sorry, not questionable at all. Obama had to make the announcement as soon as the news was confirmed, and would have been pilloried had he not. Whether he broke into a vacuous TV show, or one of substance, is irrelevant.
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:36pm PT
Gene

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:36pm PT
Thank you dirtbag.

Quit bitching you miserable hags.
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:37pm PT
Oh come on AC, can't you read anything?

;-)
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:37pm PT
Anytime Gene!
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 07:38pm PT
Great. Now we will have 5+ years of threads asserting (i) it's a hoax; (ii) OBL's body was on ice in a CIA spider hole awaiting a favorable political opportunity; (iii) Reagan deserves all the credit; (iv) Obama should be prosecuted for not giving him a fair trial; (v) it was insensitive to throw the body off a boat and (vi) multiple additional threads on whatever Sarah has to say about all of this.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 07:39pm PT
Skipt quipped
You need to waterboard Crowley at the next facelift and see if he'll give up all his tree trimming secrets.


Yeah man. I mean I bet he'll say literally ANYTHING to make you stop. In fact I bet if you told him what you wanted him to say then he'd say it. I guess that's why Iran is so deft at getting confessions.
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:39pm PT
Sooooo funny watching libs acting all macho about Hopey gettin bin Laden.

Just too funny.
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:42pm PT
Libs now into pulling out Osama's head out for show and tell?

What?

Just. Too. Funny.

These are same libs who whined that Gitmo detainees werent getting civilian trials.

Again. Just. Too. Funny.
tom Carter

Social climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:42pm PT
"Because it's judgment that defeats us".

The world is complicated. Do your part by really trying to speak only if you know what is true.

It starts with each of us.

Only way to clean it up is to do it yourself.

Lovegasoline - thanks for that dialog - ever read "Dispatches"?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 07:43pm PT
Dingus, yes I have been a frequent critic of former President Bush.

I have also given him credit when he deserved it, without in the same post denigrating him.

To answer your question.
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:44pm PT
Oh -- now libs are saying Bush was right alllllll along in his fight against radical muslims.

Libs -- do you ever get tired of just looking like fools?
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:45pm PT
FEEL ALL THE HOPEY AND CHANGEY!

Obama: U.S. Carried Out Operation 'At My Direction'...
Killing brings anger, relief in Arab world...
Pakistanis rally to pay homage to bin Laden...
Musharraf: Mission violated sovereignty...
Hamas condemns killing of 'holy warrior'...
Arabs Riot in Jerusalem Over Death...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 07:47pm PT
suap when are you going to stop quoting Palin over and over and over
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
LAUGHING. TOO. HARD. MUST. CATCH. BREATH.

WHAT WILL THE LIBS SAY ABOUT THEIR HOPEY CHANGEY PREZ?

One of the tastiest morsels in today’s banquet of intel details.
Officials say CIA interrogators in secret overseas prisons developed the first strands of information that ultimately led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Current and former U.S. officials say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden’s most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed’s successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania.

One U.S. official, speaking to the LA Times, noted drily, “That took years and these guys don’t give it up all willingly.” So much for the canard that enhanced interrogation never, under any circumstances, yields useful information. I’m trying to get the timeline straight, though. Apparently, sometime between 2002 and 2007, KSM and/or al-Libi revealed the courier’s pseudonym to the CIA while at a secret prison; then, four years ago, the CIA finally figured out the courier’s real name, which was the first big break in tracking him to Bin Laden’s door.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
wow u r such a gr8 troll m8
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
i am so trolled rite now
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 07:50pm PT
so mad. i so mad
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:51pm PT
mee so horny 2!
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
Just too funny.

For a decade libs told us the following:
1. Muslims attack us because we are the problem.
2. 9-11 was caused by BushCo.
3. Osama bin Laden was justified in attacking us on 911.
4. Gitmo MUST be closed.
5. Strong interrogation techniques are BAAAAAAAD.
6. The Patriot Act MUST be repealed.
7. KSM MUST be tried in NYC.

Hey libs -- now that Osama is dead via Gitmo, waterboarding, secret prisons, etc. -- and Obama did the killin, what you say now?
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:55pm PT
Take anger management.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 07:57pm PT
So while it's questionable that Obama broke in on Donald Trump's show to announce the killing of OBL

Sorry, not questionable at all. Obama had to make the announcement as soon as the news was confirmed, and would have been pilloried had he not. Whether he broke into a vacuous TV show, or one of substance, is irrelevant.

I was joking Anders. Pretty ironically humorous through in a macho kinda way

Peace

Karl
shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 07:58pm PT
The biggest lie of all?
That liberals were really against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or Gitmo, or waterboarding, or the Patriot Act, etc.

How do we know they were lying? Because they don't say jack now that Obama is prez, and he is following the same policies, including assassinating a person on foreign soil.

Libs -- your cover has been blown. Big time.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 2, 2011 - 07:58pm PT
SUAP wrote: Hey libs -- now that Osama is dead via Gitmo, waterboarding, secret prisons, etc. -- and Obama did the killin, what you say now?


Dumbsh#t...Osama is dead because we have a president who knew what to do to make that happen. Not some dumb sh#t like Bush who invaded Iraq.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 2, 2011 - 08:00pm PT
Hahaha,

al Qaeda's got itself a leadership crisis now.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 2, 2011 - 08:07pm PT
High wrote: Hahaha,

al Qaeda's got itself a leadership crisis now.


And America doesn't...Obama is a walk in for four more years.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 2, 2011 - 08:13pm PT
507 posts and he's still dead- the taco is proving it's worth!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 2, 2011 - 08:14pm PT
Bob,

Touché.

.....

"It is a better place because of the death of Osama bin Laden."

President Obama, today.
Gene

climber
May 2, 2011 - 08:15pm PT
The goddamned pizza shoulda been here by now! WTF?

Is Hillary packing a 7/11 coffee cup?

Damn It, LeBron. That shot was a gimme.


Air Force guy has a serious Solitaire issue.
CaptainCarelesss

Social climber
San Antonio, TX
May 2, 2011 - 08:19pm PT
L.O.L


How it really went down.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=173_1304363717
nutjob

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
May 2, 2011 - 08:21pm PT
Air Force guy has a serious Solitaire issue.

Or maybe he's a closet Supertopo addict?
cintune

climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
May 2, 2011 - 08:27pm PT


shut up and pull

climber
May 2, 2011 - 08:34pm PT
AND SHE WAS THE DEM LEADER IN THE HOUSE?

Nancy Pelosi, press conference, September 7, 2006:

[E]ven if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done ... is done. And even to capture him now I don't think makes us any safer.

Nancy Pelosi, earlier today:

The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. ... I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. ... [T]he death of Osama bin Laden is historic....

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 2, 2011 - 08:37pm PT
So when the front leading republican president candidate was dropping the f-bomb and worrying about Obama place of birth...the real president was doing his job.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 2, 2011 - 08:44pm PT
U.S. intelligence uncovered the courier's identity four years ago "from a different part of the world," the senior U.S. official said. He declined to say where

Fatboy's right. KSM sang under water. Not only did we get the courier's name, but we stopped some other major attacks in the planning.

And if water-boarding is illegal in extreme cases, why do y'all say about violating a nation's sovereignty without a former declaration of war and killing their inhabitants???

Got hypocrisy?

Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 08:45pm PT
while the pres was gettin her done, fatty was still lookin for that lipstick on a pig.

edit:

why do y'all say about violating a nation's sovereignty without a former declaration of war and killing their inhabitants???

so bluey i take it you wish the motherf*#ker was still alive? didnt the mofo violate our sovereignity first?

micronut

Trad climber
fresno, ca
May 2, 2011 - 08:47pm PT
Yall really think Obama had much to do with this? You guys are too funny. You each want your guy to take the credit for this and for the other dude's guy to look like an imbicile. What a silly little girlfight.

By the way, what is that a picture of in front of Missus Clinton?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 08:58pm PT
And if water-boarding is illegal in extreme cases, why do y'all say about violating a nation's sovereignty without a former declaration of war and killing their inhabitants???

Got hypocrisy?


We should not do it.

In this case, I don't think we did that. I believe that we had permission.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 08:59pm PT


The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (Pub.L. 107-40, 115 Stat. 224, enacted September 18, 2001), one of two resolutions commonly known as "AUMF" (the other being "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002"), was a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress on September 14, 2001, authorizing the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the attacks on September 11, 2001. The authorization granted the President the authority to use all "necessary and appropriate force" against those whom he determined "planned, authorized, committed or aided" the September 11th attacks, or who harbored said persons or groups. The AUMF was signed by President George W. Bush on September 18, 2001.
.

f*#kin retards like SUAP, bluey, fattard......the president had every legal right to kill OBL.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 2, 2011 - 09:03pm PT
Hawk wrote: f*#kin retards like SUAP, bluey, fattard......the president had every legal right to kill OBL.


Did you expect anything less from them?
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 2, 2011 - 09:04pm PT
they never fail to disappoint....
TYeary

Social climber
State of decay
May 2, 2011 - 09:04pm PT
‎"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
— Martin Luther King Jr.
TYeary
jstan

climber
May 2, 2011 - 09:16pm PT
We elect a President to make decisions. Any choice that is obviously correct, is not a decision.

Our worship of partisan politics, threatens to make us

impotent.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 09:17pm PT
We seem to be violating international law all the time these days and it's nothing new. We just feel entitled.

And it's not just because of the OBL boogeyman, we have been violating it in Waziristan all along, it just takes a little more balls and excuses to do it in a Pakistani Military town.

And you do have to hand it to Obama, it does appear that he did what Bush spend a trillion trying to do. Ya'll want a more efficient government eh?

But after the feel good is over, what's really accomplished or changed. (maybe if we pull out somewhere) except that he's still trying to get the GOP to work with him and not be so partisan, a nice thought.

But Bin Laden?

Osama was old and repeatedly expressed a desire to die as a martyr rather than die of old age or in prison. So we really didn't hurt him per se, just fullfilled his wish just as we fulfilled his stated strategy, which was to bankrupt the US by causing us to overuse our military. (how Reagan alledgedly bankrupted the soviet union)

Bin Laden and the Islamists had no shortage of opportunities to spread their message. Are we really afraid his ideas have such power that a trial would spread them? Having him prisoner would be a much greater blow to radical islamist sensibilities.

Peace

Karl
marv

Mountain climber
Bay Area
May 2, 2011 - 09:21pm PT
let's say the U.S. violated "international law" ...

... that's what superpowers do (see China, see U.S.)
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 09:22pm PT
bluering said
Got hypocrisy?


Got birth certificate?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 2, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
I'm very happy Obama gave to 'go-order'. Very happy.

Just be careful when you accuse Bush of violating Int'l Law and needs to be prosecuted. The whole Int'l Criminal Court is a European suck-fest.

We act in our own interests, as we should. F*#k the ICC! Obama acted against ICC rules and good for him!


Side-note: Milestone Alert!!! My son just took his first crap in a toilet. It was a double tap!

I think my son has officially sh#t on OBL by introducing his feces into the water supply. Good boy!
Gene

climber
May 2, 2011 - 09:26pm PT
This thread is over. Thank you.

Our closing credits...

Side-note: Milestone Alert!!! My son just took his first crap in a toilet. It was a double tap!

I think my son has officially sh#t on OBL by introducing his feces into the water supply. Good boy!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 2, 2011 - 09:35pm PT
Assassinating people in a sovereign country? Bombing Libyans without a formal war declaration?

I'm not opposed to either. But let's gauge our criticism properly.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 2, 2011 - 09:37pm PT

Side-note: Milestone Alert!!! My son just took his first crap in a toilet. It was a double tap!

LOL
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 2, 2011 - 09:38pm PT
Oh, Obama had every right according to US law and I'm glad he did. But, he violated many international laws. It's Israeli law to go into foreign countries to elimate terrorists, so it would be just fine if they did it here..... right????


Maybe UncleDoug should worry about my friends in the Mossad (jk).


Bwahahahahahaahaha


The evil one

Fattrad and Bluey--good job on exposing the hypocrisy and ignorance on the part of those who believe that Obama and the kill squad complied with Pakastani and International law. Keep up the good work.

Most people don't seem to care, and a few particularly ignorant posters seem to think that Congress can somehow override international law and those of other, soverign countries, but maybe someone will learn something.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 09:39pm PT
Seriously guys let's be reasonable! bluering demands it!



bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 2, 2011 - 09:40pm PT
I'm totally serious too, granite. It was a bloop-bloop, and me and him looked at each other in astonishment. It was priceless! He was worried and I was shocked at the development.

Eat sh#t, Osama Bin Laden.
nature

climber
Krabi, Thailand
May 2, 2011 - 09:46pm PT
DMT is on a roll in this thread.

p0wned!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 2, 2011 - 09:48pm PT
Now, for all you chihuahuas of war, President Obama has more leverage against Pakistan than at any point in the Bush admin. Now they can press for other high level hide outs.

President Obama seems to have managed a brilliant operation conducted on his personal orders.

COMMANDERS do that. They take decisions and take the consequences. Violation of International Law? Send your wig wearing attorney to the Haig and file the f*#king charges, m kay?

Lol.

Totally agree. And it doesn't make as many headlines, but under Obama the drone-zaps in Pakistan have been outstanding and countless. I say, "Nice job!".

Another violation of Int'l law and sovereignty? I don't really care!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 09:49pm PT
Kinda shallow coverage of this altogether. Did they kill everyone in the compound or did the Pakistanis come in and take some prisoners themselves, or did we just fly away and let everyone else go? Will be interesting to find out (if we do) Hopefully they collected some intel from the place.

Peace

Karl
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
May 2, 2011 - 10:01pm PT
Karl - others were in the compound and injured. They were treated at the local hospital. For instance, a wife was shot in the leg.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 2, 2011 - 10:04pm PT
Waterboarding never revealed anything, except how fuked up the Republican mind really is....


You're wrong. Asking for proof of black operations is idiotic. KSM sang like a hairy little bird after about 100 water-board trips. We broke him.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
May 2, 2011 - 10:05pm PT
Hey Bluering - this is a quote from the following article: ""Done in by a double tap – boom boom ..." thought you'd get an extra kick out of it. :)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama-bin-laden-killed-abbottabad-raid
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
May 2, 2011 - 10:13pm PT
On the drive home I tuned into local clown radio in LA. Even those whores (my apologies to whores)John and Ken were congratulating Obama for a job Bush couldn't do. Amazing!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 10:14pm PT
Show us definitive proof that waterboarding has yielded actionable intelligence or saved lives...




waiting
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 2, 2011 - 10:15pm PT
Go ahead, KerBleuy....

Show us definitive proof that waterboarding has yielded actionable intelligence or saved lives...


The evidence has been released. You'll never believe it, but it has been stated that KSM revealed active plots that were eventually dismantled.

Crimpie, I know, that's why I used the term 'double-tap'....
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2011 - 10:16pm PT
Coz wrote

I have question for you Karl, Do you think suicide bombings are justified, because America kills civilian, by accident defending herself.

A simple yes or no, will do for me.

Not justified on the suicide bombing question.

It's hard to identify many Guilty people in Iraq though and we killed many, many thousands and millions are homeless refugees. It's become clear that the administration knew they weren't involved in 9-11 nor had WMDs. So that's a lot of killing innocents.

Now answer me this, in some distant future after our economy collapsed or somethign, If an Islamic country somehow invaded the US on false pretenses and occupied the streets with a puppet government in command, what actions of US citizens fighting the occupier would be justified, or that we might do anyway even if not justified?

peace

karl
monolith

climber
May 2, 2011 - 10:20pm PT
That's "rendition", silly boy Fattrad, not "redaction".
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 10:22pm PT
Well, "Commander Torture" and his minions have doubts as to whether torture actually led to this intelligence to kill OBL . . .



Rumsfeld: Bin Laden Info From Gitmo Detainees Was Not Obtained Through ‘Harsh Treatment’

Source: Think Progress

Rumsfeld: Bin Laden Info From Gitmo Detainees Was Not Obtained Through ‘Harsh Treatment’ Or ‘Waterboarding’

The New York Times reported today that some of the information that led U.S. intelligence officials to ultimately determine Osama bin Laden’s whereabouts was obtained from detainees at Guantanamo Bay:

.............

Dick Cheney said today that “it wouldn’t be surprising” the intel came from Bush’s torture program. However, there is currently no evidence to suggest that the detainees that provided the information that led to bin Laden were subject to torture. And Bush Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who presumably has some knowledge about what went on at Gitmo, today threw some cold water on this theory:

*“The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

Without any evidence, and without Rumsfeld’s blessing, it seems like conservatives are going to have to work a little bit harder at trying to take credit for bin Laden’s death.

Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/02/rumsfeld-bin-laden-gitmo




Intelligence through the torture of human beings is immoral, and you know it. There are other ways. Be smart. There are no reasons we as a nation have to stoop to their level and become barbaric. It's all 100% USDA Bovine Dung to do so and to make any argument that we should.

It's all Bull.
nature

climber
Krabi, Thailand
May 2, 2011 - 10:24pm PT
I'd pay good money for that.

Though I suggest we put fattrad on the board as well. For reasons of principle only, of course.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 2, 2011 - 10:26pm PT
Ok Jeff, I read the CNN article.

Not one word in there about waterboarding.



Answer AC's question: Prove that waterboarding produced actionable intelligence.


You have NOT, thus far, dipwad.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
May 2, 2011 - 10:38pm PT
The president's men said right there on the TV they did not tell Pakistani officials about this operation until after the men were out of the country.

A slight point, but this statement doesn't mean that there wasn't a previous agreement in place that would allow the US to enter the country to get Bin Laden whenever he was found.

Another fine point. We could have been attempting to capture him alive, to put him on trial, and the circumstances didn't allow for that to happen. Not that I necessarily believe this, but that point could be made. Which would make this an arrest attempt gone wrong, and these things happen. So we didn't necessarily break any international law.

Whereas torture is clearly against international law.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 10:41pm PT
Yes, a journalist who gets it . . .


RT: Osama bin Bogeyman? 'CIA getting rid of old asset'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x580115
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi2Mphoaaos&feature=player_embedded



This maybe what indeed has truly happened. Will they fess up to it? NO.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 2, 2011 - 10:43pm PT
deja vu?

Nixon - When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.

Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
May 2, 2011 - 10:49pm PT
Even shameless idiots like me can post here...

Even though I know nothing about what I post, r how it is even relevant to anything at all... I can post too.

Even when I have no say in anything or the outcomes of any action (whether political, economic, social, etc., etc., locally, or world wide) I too can post here....


So.... So can fattrad
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 2, 2011 - 11:05pm PT
Yes, a journalist who gets it . . .


RT: Osama bin Bogeyman? 'CIA getting rid of old asset'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x580115
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi2Mphoaaos&feature=player_embedded



This maybe what indeed has truly happened. Will they fess up to it? NO.





'Osama Bin Laden was enemy symbol vital for US - who's next?'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x580116
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3razHvHzq0


My add:

I'm calling it. Just as Wernher von Braun said to his secretary, "After the war on terror it will be invasion by space aliens," hence all the Hollywood movies coming out with the UFO/Alien theme. You heard it here first. lol.



Spencer: 'Bin Laden a useful bogeyman'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x580121
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjdWFEavAuc
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 2, 2011 - 11:16pm PT
This thread is hilarious. Bush lost OBL, pulled out of Afghanistan to and basically stopped looking for him. Obama then went all in in Afghanistan, pushed in Pakistan hard and found him and now the only way the Repubs in here can claim any kind of part in this is to pretend that the intel came from torturing people at Gitmo. That assertion, like the idea that Obama wasn't an American, appears to be based on nothing. Pretty sad.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 2, 2011 - 11:21pm PT
It's cage fight hour on the taco...woot...
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
May 2, 2011 - 11:43pm PT
"You are the most clueless ST poster of all time."

 yeah, but I got you pegged, that's fa'show!!!!



And, just like you, no matter how out of I am, I can post here too.

bwahahaa

"You are the most clueless ST poster of all time."

 You'd probably have a few takers on that one, but all I'd have to do is bring up your alter-ego and the conversation would be over, chubs.

Just like my climbing career, you're done.

Oh, hey, good call by the way.. you really set me in my place, pulling the "clueless" card.. but if you just take another look at my previous post, you will see... I beat you to that too!


AC - Thanks. Dealing with the lessors of society remind me of a brilliant statement uttered in my direction "There's no way to reverse decline like this Jingy...."


True, so true... there is no way to reverse decline like this..... like fatty-mcballchinian



Coz - "I'm trying to get these talking heads to step down, so guys like you can post."

 Not bloody likely Coz. They just like the look of their words on the screen... Its a false sense of empowerment.....
Captain...or Skully

climber
or some such
May 3, 2011 - 12:17am PT
I dunno, Riley...They spew a lot. Mostly just spew.
Some folks talk too much. Move on, people. Just sayin'.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 3, 2011 - 12:21am PT
Anastasia

climber
hanging from an ice pick and missing my mama.
May 3, 2011 - 01:17am PT
Wow, I know a guy with seal team six. I met him while camping in San Diego with his very beautiful wife. This is very interesting...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2011 - 01:31am PT
The only interesting aspect of this is exactly what parade of Pakistani pols and ISI personnel were in contact with the residence or the courier, ditto for Saudis, Egyptians, and others in the region over the past year or so of surveillance. Probably a few nervous souls out there now.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 3, 2011 - 01:34am PT
Wow, I know a guy with seal team six. I met him while camping in San Diego with his very beautiful wife. This is very interesting...


Sorry but I'm skeptical. First rule of Seal Team Six is you don't talk about Seal Team Six and all that. Apparently it's not even an official designation. I think maybe got got scammed by a rescue diver or someone.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 3, 2011 - 01:54am PT
Joseph has a good point - there definitely will be follow up, as they look at whatever evidence they seized, and trace the threads. Probably a few senior people in the Pakistani military and ISI are wondering what's next.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 3, 2011 - 02:01am PT
It's not difficult to find Seal members in San Diego if you know where to look.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 3, 2011 - 02:05am PT


the commandos moved inside, and finally reached bin Laden’s upstairs living quarters after nearly 40 minutes on the ground. What words if any were exchanged between the Americans and the Saudi-born terrorist are not publicly known, but the SEALs used the code word “Geronimo” to inform their commanders that they had found the target.

“The woman presumed to be his wife . . . was shielding bin Laden,” Brennan said, adding that it was not clear that anyone had forced her to take the action. The White House later said that a woman who died in the assault was not one of bin Laden’s wives.

The al-Qaeda leader was shot at at least once in the head and died instantly, U.S. officials said.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 3, 2011 - 02:08am PT
Joseph has a good point - there definitely will be follow up, as they look at whatever evidence they seized, and trace the threads. Probably a few senior people in the Pakistani military and ISI are wondering what's next.

Keep an eye out for upcoming drone-zaps in the next week or two.

As for SEALs in San Diego, yeah, they're there, granite. But they keep a low profile usually.

And SEAL team 6 is not only super badass, but very hush-hush. As they should be...

EDIT: Apparently 'Team 6' is made up of the best of the SEALs. The elite of the elite, if you will.

They operate out of the bounds of military and Int'l law. No paperwork, no accountability. Just do the job.

I like that.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 02:30am PT
Maybe it's time to remember that the Times of India reported in 2001 that the Pakistani ISI chief was responsble for wiring Mohammed Atta $100,000 before 9-11.

Now there is a lot of Speculation about our Pakistani Allies, since Bin Laden was discovered living in a military area with ISI there too. Did they know or help Bin Laden?

Now, Pakistan has got a huge population, significant military and possesses nukes too. We're already up to our neck in war so you might imagine that even if we find the Pakistani's have been stabbing us in the back, those facts will be suppressed or minimized. That's just the way practical politics work. We only fight weak foes, and even those take a lot of money to dominate.

The role of Pakistan in US terrorism and the Taliban in Afghanistan as well has already been relatively unexamined publicly. Afghanistan would have a hard time making trouble for the US outside of it's borders, Pakistan is another story. They probably would never make it here but we'd never have them pacified either and they have no oil.

Peace

Karl
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
May 3, 2011 - 02:51am PT
Turn it all to glass
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 03:01am PT
Turn it all to glass

That's what my marine family member says.

It always strikes me as strange that someone would advocate killing millions of innocent people, surpassing Hitler's numbers of victims and then some. They claim any attacks on the US were unjustified but are ready to attack huge masses with less cause.

really?

Peace

Karl
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2011 - 03:08am PT
Removing nukes from Pakistan and India would be optimal, bummer that cat's out of the bag. Pakistan is a complex, faceted, layered affair and not one amenable to glassing over.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 03:10am PT
One thing's for sure, Obama is lucky!

Carter got totally dissed when his rescue mission went bad, and Obama's mission lost one of their helicopters so it came close.

I mean, seems like they would have had to tell Pakistan they were coming (to be denied of course) or risk being shot out of the sky (cause this isn't Waziristan, but a military place) but then what if Bin Laden were in Bed with the Pakistani's? They'd lose their man.

So what if Obama had tried the mission but they got shot down and it became an international incident?

Ironically, if the Pakistan Government denies knowing Americans were coming, they'll look stupid for not having any defenses, and folks will claim, conspiracy theory style, "the Government knew" and they probably did!

Again, helps to be lucky or way smarter in ways we don't see all the details of.

Peace

karl
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2011 - 03:17am PT
It should also be noted that our troubles with OBL, the Taliban, and the Hussein family could all have been dealt with through a combination of Predator strikes and raids like this one - both wars were completely unnecessary for the task of removing those responsible for 9/11 and informing their successors we'd keep it up into perpetuity until someone got a clue along the way.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 03:17am PT
For those who support Wikileaks, consider this:

This whole 4 year operation depended upon finding the courier. It is what allowed Usama to be caught.

If AT ANY TIME, it became known that he was being sought by the west, he would have immediately been found in a ditch, and the link lost.

The week before the killing, Wikileaks published his name in a diplomatic cable.

How close did we come to completely upending this operation? We had the location by them, but they could have moved Usama. They could have "prepared" the mansion. This could have been an unmitigated disaster for the US, resulting in the loss of the entire mission crew.

Yeah, Wikileaks is totally benign. NOT
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
May 3, 2011 - 04:58am PT
What would the great Khan do as he rode down from the North?

It's ironic when you look back at history, we didn't win many wars just time consuming battles. The winners are the ones who out breed their foe's.

The Mexicans & Chinese will rule the world but China will come apart since there are no women. They will try to get wives from PI but it will be way too late.

In the end the catholic church will rule the Mexican hordes...& so it begins. I'm impressed with how old Mexico beat the great American super power & regained their land without raising a weapon. The only thing that wins in the end is breeding.

Just a rant from the most isolated islands in the world. We have ha'oles here & Mexicans too. As George Lopez says don't come to us we will come to you. Funny caca...

RG
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 05:08am PT
In the end the catholic church will rule the Mexican hordes...& so it begins. I'm impressed with how old Mexico beat the great American super power & regained their land without raising a weapon. The only thing that wins in the end is breeding.

It's an interesting point. The Palestinians under Arafat basically stated they planned to breed their way to dominating Israel.

There are some who believe the use of Depleted Uranium munitions in Iraq and Afghanistan are meant to be (or will function as) a long term weapon against those peoples for generations as the dust lodges in their bodies and causes birth defects and cancer for long periods after the troops go home

Personally, I don't know but Have seen evidence that DU affects the health of everyone in the whole area where it's exploded.

Peace

Karl
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 3, 2011 - 08:49am PT
What helped do Bin Laden in was moving into a comfortable setting...bad habits die hard...if he had hung out with the goat herders he may have lasted longer...? Poor little rich kid...
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
May 3, 2011 - 09:35am PT
Karl - in the short time since it happened, it has been reported that Pakistan stated they got Osama with us (i.e., joint effort); we did it with their knowledge and support; we did it without telling them anything. Wonder if the truth will ever be known.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
May 3, 2011 - 09:41am PT
who gets
to be
the next
boogieman?
nature

climber
Krabi, Thailand
May 3, 2011 - 09:50am PT
It's cage fight hour on the taco...woot...

ho man... I almost sprayed the macbook pro with Singha after reading that one.
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2011 - 10:15am PT
who gets
to be
the next
boogieman?

I nominate fattrad.
Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
May 3, 2011 - 10:28am PT
Visit Pakistan;......try something different than Disneyworld or the Hamptons this year...



Todd Gordon

Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
May 3, 2011 - 10:35am PT
Now who will I stay with when I'm in Islamabad......





Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 3, 2011 - 11:35am PT
It is hilarious to watch republicans give credit to Bush for the capture/killing of Osama but assume no responsibility for his policies that tanked the country.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
Nice one Bob!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 3, 2011 - 01:42pm PT
Say it like a pirate, "Dead (CIA) Men Tell No Tales."


Turns out Wikileaks has info relating that Pakistan knew where OBL was all along, and he was guarded by Pakistan government security.

Do you think we knew this? Probably. We probably knew this for a long long time.


WikiLeaks: Osama bin Laden 'protected' by Pakistani security
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4837206
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8488236/WikiLeaks-Osama-bin-Laden-protected-by-Pakistani-security.html
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2011 - 01:46pm PT
Fatty, what would you do about Pakistan?

Unfortunately, we need their help.
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2011 - 01:54pm PT
Yeah, that's my take too.

Our relations with Pakistan is a very difficult situation.
BrianH

Trad climber
santa fe
May 3, 2011 - 02:04pm PT
FAUX NEWS HEADLINE:

DC Area African American Admits to Killing Middle Aged Man
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 02:08pm PT
Wow, I know a guy with seal team six. I met him while camping in San Diego with his very beautiful wife. This is very interesting...

Sorry but I'm skeptical. First rule of Seal Team Six is you don't talk about Seal Team Six and all that. Apparently it's not even an official designation. I think maybe got got scammed by a rescue diver or someone.

LOL!

It is hard to imagine even the wife of a SEAL freely discussing what her husband does.

"Loose Lips Sink Ships" and all that...

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 3, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
Yeah and I wonder it I'm the only one who is a little uncomfortable about the constant lionization of US special forces.
Seems like the adult version of my-dad-could-beat-up-your dad.

How about we celebrate Peace Corps volunteers or people who invent new and useful technology to lift people out of lives of grinding poverty instead of volunteer killers?
BrianH

Trad climber
santa fe
May 3, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
As a former Peace Corps volunteer (Gabon 85-87) let me say THANK YOU!!!

I've never heard anyone else suggest this and just this morning I was thinking of that.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 3, 2011 - 02:17pm PT
Let's not forget that under the Bush Administration the DevGru boyz (Team 6) were referred to as "Cheney's Assassination Squad" by all the usual lefties.

My, how a different party designation changes things.

Whatever. As long as the job is getting done, I don't really give a crap.

bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 3, 2011 - 02:21pm PT
interesting perspective from vdh:

"The world must now realize that the domestic antiwar movement is dead, kaput; it cares not a whit whether we assassinate bin Laden or a son of Qaddafi or go into Libya. Everything is on the table now and there are no self-restraints, no snickers on The Daily Show, no quirky insider winks on Letterman, no Barbara Streisand crazy faxes. A Nobel peace laureate is now the Left’s totem and he can send quite deadly Americans on quite deadly missions as he sees fit — and without worry about a New York Times op-ed barrage or an ACLU lawsuit. That gives the U.S. newfound advantages, a veritable blank check, from keeping Guantanamo open indefinitely to using a Cheney “assassination” team and valuable water-boarded intelligence wherever it wishes to. A Harold Koh is not going to be filing any more lawsuits against his government — he is the government."
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 02:39pm PT
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/05/report-ucla-geographers-predicted-bin-ladens-hideout-2-years-ago.html

Bin Laden's location: UCLA geographers named Abbottabad as a likely hide-out 2 years ago

-------------


But of course, we don't believe in science.......
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
May 3, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
It is hard to imagine even the wife of a SEAL freely discussing what her husband does.

Reminds me of "The Unit". If someone tells you that they are a logistics clerk then they might be a member of Seal Team Six.

Dave
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 03:18pm PT
Yeah and I wonder it I'm the only one who is a little uncomfortable about the constant lionization of US special forces.
Seems like the adult version of my-dad-could-beat-up-your dad.

It's the male version of the Royal Wedding.

Practically speaking, the whole transformation of the Middle East via protests is a much more important phenomena. The world hasn't really known if Bin Laden were alive or dead for many years and it's doubtful he has had much affect on Al Queda from his hideout.

The fallout from this event could swing a number of ways that we don't control. Time will tell, but It's a good sign that peaceful but courageous protest is evidenced as a means to change in the MidEast which repudiates both Bin Laden's Methods and those of the US War machine.

Peace

karl
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
The world hasn't really known if Bin Laden were alive or dead for many years and it's doubtful he has had much affect on Al Queda from his hideout.


Intelligence folks might get a better idea of that in the coming weeks after pouring over his hard drives.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 3, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
Karl,


Yes, World Revolution by Wikileaks.

Who could have known that telling the truth and exposing the government lies would have such a profound effect on the whole World? (sarcasm)

Wow, look what telling the truth can do.

I'm all for Sunshine. It is the best disinfectant.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
May 3, 2011 - 03:56pm PT
"The world must now realize that the domestic antiwar movement is dead, kaput; it cares not a whit whether we assassinate bin Laden or a son of Qaddafi or go into Libya. Everything is on the table now and there are no self-restraints, no snickers on The Daily Show, no quirky insider winks on Letterman, no Barbara Streisand crazy faxes. A Nobel peace laureate is now the Left’s totem and he can send quite deadly Americans on quite deadly missions as he sees fit — and without worry about a New York Times op-ed barrage or an ACLU lawsuit. That gives the U.S. newfound advantages, a veritable blank check, from keeping Guantanamo open indefinitely to using a Cheney “assassination” team and valuable water-boarded intelligence wherever it wishes to. A Harold Koh is not going to be filing any more lawsuits against his government — he is the government."

This highlights the poor understanding that some people have of war protesters. They use too much black and white thinking. They think that we would never fight. But then they would be wrong, as evidenced by how many elected democrats have actually served during war time, versus elected republicans.

I'm a liberal who is against most wars, but I would have signed up for WW2.

Some war protesters would never fight, but I believe that most would, given the proper motivation.

Two wars that I would NOT have fought in come specifically to mind, Vietnam and Iraq. And I think it was a mistake to stay in Afghanistan. We should have gone in and blasted the taliban strong holds, and then left, because Russia proved that Afghanistan is a quagmire. We are bankrupting ourselves going into quagmires.
jstan

climber
May 3, 2011 - 03:56pm PT
How Bin Laden met his end
Targeting the Al Qaeda leader with a missile strike wasn't enough. President Obama needed proof he was dead — and a much bolder plan.


By Bob Drogin, Christi Parsons and Ken Dilanian, Los Angeles Times
May 3, 2011
Reporting from Washington— The nail-biting moment, the period when absolute disaster loomed, came at the very start.

About two dozen Navy SEALs and other U.S. commandos were supposed to rope down into a Pakistani residential compound from a pair of specially modified Black Hawk helicopters in the predawn hours Monday, race into two buildings, and capture or kill Osama bin Laden. One chopper stalled as it hovered between the compound's high walls, unable to sustain its lift, and thudded into the dirt.

Half a world away in the White House Situation Room, the president and his war council crowded around a table covered with briefing papers and keyboards and watched nervously as video feeds streamed in. The special forces team needed a rescue chopper. Gunfire was blazing around them. No one wanted another "Black Hawk Down" debacle.

"A lot of people were holding their breath," recalled John Brennan, the president's counter-terrorism advisor.

The extraordinary drama surrounding the killing of Bin Laden encompassed the White House, the CIA and other arms of America's vast national security apparatus. The tale is part detective story, part spy thriller. But the decade-old manhunt for the Al Qaeda leader ultimately came down to a three-story building on a dirt road in the Pakistani army town of Abbottabad, north of Islamabad.

If the raid went wrong, President Obama would bear the blame. He had vetoed a plan to obliterate the compound with an airstrike. Obama wanted to be certain he had Bin Laden, and there was no guarantee that a smoking crater would yield proof. He had asked for a bolder plan, one that would allow the U.S. to take custody of Bin Laden or his body. It posed far more risk………….

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-bin-laden-raid-20110503,0,7245803.story


END QUOTE


Other stories in the LA Times details that bin Laden was actively involved in his own defence. I think speculations here as to anyone’s courage by persons out of uniform with no personal knowledge – reflect very poorly upon us.

Yesterday I speculated(mentally) that capture alive had to have been an important objective. Referrence is made to this in the above link.

Yesterday I also speculated that DNA would be needed from two or three family members. See further from the link below.

http://www.the33tv.com/news/la-heb-osama-bin-laden-dna-testing-20110502,0,7457296.story






How we as a people react to this important event can speak very directly to our quality as a culture. Make no mistake.

We are being carefully observed.

dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2011 - 03:59pm PT
I guess Pakistan is upset that the mission invaded its air space.

Too bad!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2011 - 04:04pm PT
The only question about Hanson is how much in federal and state subsidies does he reel in for his "farm" - other than that he's just another shuck 'n jive neocon trying to rationalize just why it is the neocon strategy to restore US superpower dominance went off the rails so badly.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 04:22pm PT
If we had to pay for wars in real time with increased taxes, there would be a whole new crowd of war protesters on the streets and golf links!

Peace

Karl
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
May 3, 2011 - 04:44pm PT
What happened to Bin Laden's money? Wasn't he worth like a billion at one point? Did he spend it all? Are there any billionaire radical muslims wanting to jump into his shoes? With out the money I don't think he could have done any of the things he did.

Will anyone with the resourses see it as a good investment to bankroll them?
If not I say we won and it time to bring some people home.
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2011 - 04:47pm PT
If we had to pay for wars in real time with increased taxes, there would be a whole new crowd of war protesters on the streets and golf links!

Peace

Karl

You mean, you didn't think Bush tax cuts were the way to go? ;-)
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2011 - 05:24pm PT
Great, our SEALS shot an unarmed man.

I don't care.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
May 3, 2011 - 05:27pm PT
fattrad is just another neocon flip-flopper.
monolith

climber
May 3, 2011 - 05:27pm PT
Knowing he was unarmed after the fact doesn't tell the whole story. Did the SEALS know he was unarmed when confronted? Did they know he was Bin Laden from a distance? Were there other threats nearby?
Gene

climber
May 3, 2011 - 05:31pm PT
Let's see if I got this right...

Cragman steps away from Supertopo for a spell.

Osama bin Laden gets whacked.

Coincidence?

Hmmmm..
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 3, 2011 - 06:13pm PT
Great, our SEALS shot an unarmed man. Nice mission but I am going to have to second guess them.

you shoot your mouth off at us all day long, and comparatively speaking, we are totally unarmed against your baseless, spineless idiotic blather....
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 3, 2011 - 06:18pm PT
Great, our SEALS shot an unarmed man.


I don't give a f*#k! (If true...)
Gene

climber
May 3, 2011 - 06:19pm PT
I doubt that OBL was properly Mirandized.

EDIT for benefit of following post: Sarcasm? K? Responding to the "He was unarmed" comments.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 3, 2011 - 06:32pm PT
they should have kept him alive and thrown him overboard with lead weights from the aircraft carrier. the obama waterboard treatment.
jstan

climber
May 3, 2011 - 07:12pm PT
"I was not aware the Barack was on TV regards this Bin Laden episode.
For those who watched, what did Barack have to say about 9/11 with
this episode?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsIBEPZSpWc&feature=related

John Moosie provided a link to yahoo I watched that night.

I watched the one shown above and no change was apparent to me.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Swimming in LEB tears.
May 3, 2011 - 07:18pm PT
I think that they are relaying the story that Osama was unarmed when he was shot for propaganda reasons (true or not). If Osama is seen to have gone down as a warrior, AK-47 in hand and fighting America's most elite commandos, then others will want to replicate his glorified martyrdom. The story of his wife throwing herself in front of gunfire to save an unarmed man who was clearly not fighting to protect himself after a 40 minute gun battle is not heroic to a masculine culture. While it may look bad for us to have killed an unarmed man to western cultures, many others will simply see it as a weak man going down in a way unbecoming a warrior. That, I think, is the point of perpetuating this story.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 3, 2011 - 07:20pm PT
Further more OBL said . . .

"Well, Ok, yes I did know that the DoD, and all the Armed Forces of the USA were gonna play war games, playing and acting out the very scenerio we pulled off on them on 9-11-01, which was crashing airliners into buildings.

Hey, I'm CIA aren't I? I'm in the loop. They keep me informed. I'm on a need to know basis. Brilliant huh?

Further more, I asked the DoD and US Armed Forces to lock down and ignore all protocal for hi-jacked airliners flying into restricted airspace and they did. Man, I still got it. I am the man. And to think I did this all from a cave in Afghanistan, and my men were only using boxcutter knives. Absolutely brilliant and to top it off under budget!"



There will never in the world be another brilliant war strategist such as OBL. The War Colleges should study his strategic brilliance the world over. (sarcasm)


Simply amazing.
BrianH

Trad climber
santa fe
May 3, 2011 - 07:23pm PT
It might be worth noting that OBL did not achieve his primary objective, which was to get US troops out of Saudi Arabia. Although I bet he was mighty surprised when his estranged Daddy's friend managed to get Saddam and have him swing.
monolith

climber
May 3, 2011 - 07:25pm PT
You are ignorant Klimmer. You don't even know that knives with 3-inch blades were allowed on board. And that cave thing is ridiculous.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 3, 2011 - 07:33pm PT
Oh, so now they were using 3 inch knives? And OBL was calling in all the moves, and staying abreast of the mission from Rumsfeld's office in the Pentagon?


lol
monolith

climber
May 3, 2011 - 07:34pm PT
Yes Klimmer. Knives, box cutters, mace and fake bombs. Educate yourself Klimmer.
jstan

climber
May 3, 2011 - 07:36pm PT
What is coming through is that there is absolutely nothing a non-republican president can do to satisfy certain people.

Americans are copying the cultures of the middle east. Even just reading some of the posts in this thread makes it apparent we soon will have Americans advocating stoning as a method of capital punishment. In a mere ten years we are already at the point of putting heads on pikes.

Not that far to go.

Emergency legislation suspending the US Constitution, as was done in countries of the middle east, has been a dream for some.

This is where the insanity is leading us.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2011 - 07:50pm PT
It's really somewhat amazing the degree that the Internet has enabled the resurgence of deliberate ignorance, flat-earthers, and an endless array of cults of misguided belief. Then again, why should it be any different than TV as far as pandering to the lowest common denominator? Who knew reality and facts could so easily be drowned in imagination and lunacy?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 07:53pm PT
It might be worth noting that OBL did not achieve his primary objective, which was to get US troops out of Saudi Arabia. Although I bet he was mighty surprised when his estranged Daddy's friend managed to get Saddam and have him swing.

actually in a surprising capitulation, Bush made significant troop changes in Saudi Arabia after 9-11

"Prior to 9/11, military deployment strength in SA was typically at or above the 10.000 range, not including contractors (and, depending on periodic exercises conducted, probably peaked at around 17,000). By Oct., 2002, that number had dropped to about 6,000. By the time the invasion of Iraq had started, the UN resolution was in place, so the U.S. had permission from the Saudis to continue some operations out of Prince Sultan, but, those were limited and destined to be short-lived, since the intention--since the winter of 2001-2--was to take Iraq and use that country as a primary Middle Eastern base. By Apr., 2003, in the first days of the invasion, the number of military personnel in SA was down to 5,000. As I said, US military presence in Saudi Arabia was reduced, beginning after Sept., 2001.

The U.S. military did not, as you suggest, begin to reduce deployment in SA only after Apr., 2003. It began in piecemeal fashion almost immediately after the 9/11 attacks, and continued through to the invasion of Iraq. ..."

in April 2003 even more significant numbers were removed from SA

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm

"The United States has said that virtually all its troops, except some training personnel, are to be pulled out of Saudi Arabia.

The decision was confirmed by US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld during a joint news conference with Saudi Defence Minister Prince Sultan......
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 08:01pm PT
Great, our SEALS shot an unarmed man. Nice mission but I am going to have to second guess them.

Kind of a shame that they gave an old sick guy in instant, probably painless death in battle just the way he always said he wanted it. The military said they shot him twice in the head, the second time to make sure he was dead. That was compassionate of them but why?

That's not suffering. If you really want to punish Bin Laden you make him sit in your jail and courtroom, that's the real belittling humiliation.

But they must have been nervous about that. Bin Laden would probably talk about the origins of AL Queda with the CIA fighting soviets in Afghanistan, an uncomfortable fact we don't like. Easier to kill him, and now there will certainly be a conspiracy theory that he was already dead years before.

Time will tell.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 3, 2011 - 08:02pm PT
What is coming through is that there is absolutely nothing a non-republican president can do to satisfy certain people.

Americans are copying the cultures of the middle east. Even just reading some of the posts in this thread makes it apparent we soon will have Americans advocating stoning as a method of capital punishment. In a mere ten years we are already at the point of putting heads on pikes.

Not that far to go.

Emergency legislation suspending the US Constitution, as was done in countries of the middle east, has been a dream for some.

This is where the insanity is leading us.


What exactly are you saying, John? Be more concise and to-the-point.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 3, 2011 - 08:27pm PT
karl wants everyone to sing kumbiyah! hold hands and skip around the playground together.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 3, 2011 - 08:29pm PT
What is coming through is that there is absolutely nothing a non-republican president can do to satisfy certain people.

Americans are copying the cultures of the middle east. Even just reading some of the posts in this thread makes it apparent we soon will have Americans advocating stoning as a method of capital punishment. In a mere ten years we are already at the point of putting heads on pikes.

Not that far to go.

Emergency legislation suspending the US Constitution, as was done in countries of the middle east, has been a dream for some.

This is where the insanity is leading us.
What exactly are you saying, John? Be more concise and to-the-point.

I can't imagine John being more concise and to-the-point then he already was. Best post today!
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2011 - 08:48pm PT
Karl,

You sound like a terrorist to me, your beef with the US is hand in hand, almost word for word with Bin Laden.

1.Do you approve of suicide bombings of innocents?

2.Do you feel that suicide bombings are justified because of US collateral damages in Iraq and Afghanistan.



Yes or no, Karl.

I hope you're not being serious.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 08:59pm PT
I already answered you "No" to your original question further back in the thread Coz.

I don't approve of suicide bombings against civilians under any circumstances.

I do, however, understand them. It's nobody's first choice of a response so it's important to take note when a group becomes that desperate.

and I also don't approve of illegal unjustified wars based on Lies. It's one sided and hypocritical to only consider the offenses of others and not question the behavior of yourself and allies.

People (Bush, Cheney, Etc) should be in Prison over the Iraq war. They knew there were no WMDs and lied to go in for power, oil and Israel. Isn't killing hundreds of thousands that never attacked you also a crime?

Peace

Karl
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 09:12pm PT
I sure wish they would release that helmet cam video. It would be nice, for once, to have some confirmation that a military operation is what it said it was

(after the repeated lies about so many operations in the past number of years...Jessica Lynch, Pat Tilman, Saddam's statue, and numerous Iraq and Afghan civilian killing incidents)

Peace

Karl
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 3, 2011 - 09:19pm PT
One must be patience for the final debriefing on the raid: "fog of combat”.

Still will be couple of days out. Wednesday/Thursday maybe or by the end of the week US[Washington]should be close with all the right answers.

Watching this for the last couple of days: Fun to see how things get out of hand at first [normal]. But will wait it out.

Couple of missed and understand out of control answers, goes with the territory, Was it a blue or white shroud he was buried out to sea? Was it the wife or another's [courior].

How many days/weeks/months did it take when the Towers came down before conspiracies’and nut jobs came out of the woods. Who's on first?

But they have brought up prior read to the raid that is of interest, agents or spotters smuggled or trekked in watching the compound, which would make sense [spotting tunnels and of the such around/outside on connected compounds] on Bin Ladens compound, where did they go after the mission, fade into the abyss or chopped out?

Will have to wait for answers and wait and wait for the 50 books on the adventure, then TV, then the movie? You think the "Three Tea" book is slanted.

Then again giving strategic or defensive moves to carry on the next mission which I agree need to be not answered.

Need to let the storm pass to see the light. Then again maybe half the light.
marv

Mountain climber
Bay Area
May 3, 2011 - 09:20pm PT
youTube would get, like, a gazillion hits if the bin Laden headshot were uploaded
onyourleft

climber
Smog Angeles
May 3, 2011 - 09:21pm PT
Will have to wait for answers and wait and wait for the 50 books on the adventure, then TV, then the movie? You think the "Three Tea" book is slanted.


FINALLY a Greg Mortenson reference!
Can we get back to bagging on him please?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 3, 2011 - 09:23pm PT
What is coming through is that there is absolutely nothing a non-republican president can do to satisfy certain people.

What does that mean, exactly? Be specific! I saluted Obama with other conservatives, WTF???

Americans are copying the cultures of the middle east. Even just reading some of the posts in this thread makes it apparent we soon will have Americans advocating stoning as a method of capital punishment. In a mere ten years we are already at the point of putting heads on pikes.

What?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 3, 2011 - 09:28pm PT
He wasn't talking about you personally, Blue.

Your own comment was duly noted as it was honest, thank you.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 3, 2011 - 09:30pm PT
How long until "bin Laden: The Movie" or "Date with Destiny: Abbottabad" come out? Is there enough for a mini-series?

There is probably a large quantity of video footage and still photos from the scene, and of course lots of other evidence. Before they release any of it, they'll carefully examine it for other useful information, and consider what effect it will have on US and world opinion. The US government may not benefit from some or all of it being published, and can probably declare all of it top-secret.

Only five or six people seem to have died altogether - peanuts in terms of the typical fantasy/action movie. The US government nonetheless may not have much to gain by publicizing the footage.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 3, 2011 - 09:50pm PT
wow karl,
you really ought to move to a country like Russia, or better yet Afghanistan so you rally have something to bitch about.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 3, 2011 - 10:26pm PT
wow karl,
you really ought to move to a country like Russia, or better yet Afghanistan so you rally have something to bitch about.


I was thinking along those lines too, but Karl is a true peacenik. I respect him for his consistent stance, but he's just wrong.

He doesn't realize they'd saw his head off too, despite his preachings. They are evil, Karl. No many humans could treat another human brother that way.

It's disgusting, really. I have NO sympathy for them. They will rot in hell with their fellow demons. I have no doubt.
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
May 3, 2011 - 10:35pm PT
"It's disgusting, really. I have NO sympathy for them. They will rot in hell with their fellow demons. I have no doubt."

And that is EXACTLY the sentiment that propagates the continued bullshit on BOTH sides.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
May 3, 2011 - 10:35pm PT
I was thinking along those lines too, but Karl is a true peacenik. I respect him for his consistent stance, but he's just wrong.

And I was thinking how wrong you and Hawkeye are to tell someone they should move because they complain about the lies our government has told. Our government has told lies, but you guys seem to be so wrapped up in protecting it that you are willing to ignore this. In America we can hold our government to a higher level. Its countries like you suggest that don't allow their citizens to question it, so maybe it is YOU who should move, since you seem to think it is proper behavior for a citizen to just shut up.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 3, 2011 - 10:40pm PT
And that is EXACTLY the sentiment that propagates the continued bullshit on BOTH sides.


You obviously don't understand moderate Islam. Or moderate Christianity.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 3, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
I'm sure this will inflame the debate but it really isn't meant to . . .


I will not glorify death or the killing of another human being. I will not post pictures of OBL shot or his body desecrated. I wouldn't do that with anyone good or bad. The human body is a temple of GOD and should be treated as such. The human soul is eternal no matter if they are on the right side of GOD or on the wrong side of GOD, whether they are evil or good it doesn't matter. The soul deserves respect, and the physical body on Earth the soul once occupied deserves respect. It always deserves respect no matter who they are.

The gentleman who does "Ark Code" is an Orthodox Jew and I see eye-to-eye with him on many things, but some things I do not. I wish he didn't include the graphic images of OBL with his code work. I took the liberty of editing out those images.


(*Warning: graphic images of OBL shot dead that I won't post)
http://www.arkcode.com/custom3_140.html



BIN LADEN DEAD IN 5771 (2011)








Edit:

Well, I was gonna discuss it more and then boom most of the original post vanished with images and all. For crying out loud.

Oooooooooppppssseeeeeee. I was editing and the post mostly disappeared . . . man I hate that.

Technical difficulties . . .


I'll get back to discussing this eventually. Sorry.


Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 3, 2011 - 10:59pm PT
I can't wait that long.

Please, right now.
jstan

climber
May 3, 2011 - 11:09pm PT
"You have to realize that I was/am in favor of the way this mission was carried out and it's results. I'm just enjoying trolling the libs as these ethical issues come up. They really don't how to deal with hypocrisy."

Jeff

I really can't resist.

Jeff:
Liberals can't deal with hypocrisy as well as republicans can. Because..........

we have not had any practice at it.

OK. That feels better.

I'm back to normal now.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 3, 2011 - 11:18pm PT
Hawkeye and Bluering wrote

wow karl,
you really ought to move to a country like Russia, or better yet Afghanistan so you rally have something to bitch about.

I was thinking along those lines too, but Karl is a true peacenik. I respect him for his consistent stance, but he's just wrong.

He doesn't realize they'd saw his head off too, despite his preachings. They are evil, Karl. No many humans could treat another human brother that way.

It's disgusting, really. I have NO sympathy for them. They will rot in hell with their fellow demons. I have no doubt.

Remember I was talking about the Iraq war now. Don't forget, Saddam didn't not attack us, wasn't about to attack us, and was the worst enemy of Islamic fundamentalists.

So is it somehow unamerican to question creating a couple million refugees, and over 100,000 dead in a country we had no legitimate beef with? Japan, Germany and Italy are great countries these days (relatively you must admit) but at one point they violently tried to force their empire on the world and did evil things. Aren't you, by not questioning your government's actions, lining yourself up with those Japanese, or German Citizens who went along with their government's violence and aggression. Even we had a revolution in the beginning of this country. I can hear you now if there was an internet then "Why do you hate your country England???!!!" and it wasn't like the England ruled with that heavy a hand and all the residents here considered themselves English in the beginning.

A patriot needs to be vocal to keep his country in truth as corrupt powers will always arise if not checked by the people.

So Bluering, these people in Iraq you call evil. Who are they exactly and how do we know them from the Good Iraqis? or are there none, and if so, why invade to allegedly help them (pump their oil or make sure it's sold in dollars) Even Bin Laden hated Saddam and wanted him gone. We did him a trillion dollar favor.

You all want to feel good about yourselves by feeling good about your country but it's not that easy. We're all mixed bags. By doing so we lie to ourselves. I will take pride in my criticism of both Bush and Obama, even if they were personable in their own way (at least on the surface with Bush)

You fall victim to the same trap that creates the extremists in the first place. They see the Palestinians oppressed by Israeli occupation or someone in their family killed in an US air strike, or suffer under a US supported King or Dictator and figure we're all evil and must be defeated. Do you blame them? Wouldn't you feel the same. Can't you stand in anyone elses shoes for a minute or do you need to be in bigoted self-congratulation mode since we killed another bogeyman that we used to pay to do the killing for us?

It's not a black and white world and it takes courage and honesty to see our strengths and our flaws

Peace

Karl



bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 3, 2011 - 11:18pm PT
Hey Stannard, I was hoping you'd address my questions on the previous page.
jstan

climber
May 3, 2011 - 11:54pm PT
You begin to know someone when you know what they think is funny.

This is worth a listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9mzJhvC-8E

Incredibly dry.


Edit:
Something else very interesting.

Book review: 'A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama's Mother'
Janny Scott's portrait of Stanley Ann Dunham is necessarily incomplete

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/books/la-et-book-20110503,0,6226037.story

Edit2:

A treasure trove. Stanley Ann Dunham wrote her PhD thesis in anthropology. The subject? Blacksmithing in Indonesia. The next link shows how it is done. Very interesting. Requires a lot of skill.

http://wn.com/Blacksmith_Tune_in_Desa_KajarPhD_Ann_Dunham's_Field

Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 4, 2011 - 12:03am PT
I've been disappointed by Obama many times in the past few years but as a person he seems super cool.

I didn't hate Bush the guy but did hate Bush the President so I sympathize for those staring down more years of Obama. The chances of electing one of the GOP clowns is about Zero now, since all the charismatic ones are obvious nutjobs and any halfway serious one is boring and has fatal flaws

Peace

karl
WBraun

climber
May 4, 2011 - 12:03am PT
They failed again to "kill" the "Bin "Laden".

He's still alive and running around in everyone's head .......
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 4, 2011 - 12:09am PT
Lol.

Red State Update: Bin Laden Is Dead & We're Mad As Hell

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x580528

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqoMgUkefXw






Toooooooo funny.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 4, 2011 - 12:11am PT
George Bush's war on terror...49,000 Americans dead or injured, countless innocent Iraqis dead and four trillion dollars spent!!!

Dumb-ass!!!
jstan

climber
May 4, 2011 - 12:17am PT
If the intention of that war on terror was

to spend trillions of taxpayer dollars

it was an unqualified success.




Got to look on the positive side.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 4, 2011 - 12:19am PT
John Kerry...2004...way ahead of the curve and the Bush neocons!!

"Kerry told me he would stop terrorists by going after them ruthlessly with the military, and he faulted Bush, as he often does, for choosing to use Afghan militias, instead of American troops, to pursue Osama bin Laden into the mountains of Tora Bora, where he disappeared. ''I'm certainly, you know, not going to take second seat to anybody, to nobody, in my willingness to seek justice and set America on a course -- to make America safe,'' Kerry told me. ''And that requires destroying terrorists. And I'm committed to doing that. But I think I have a better way of doing it. I can do it more effectively.''

This was a word that Kerry came back to repeatedly in our discussions; he told me he would wage a more ''effective'' war on terror no less than 18 times in two hours of conversations. The question, of course, was how.

''I think we can do a better job,'' Kerry said, ''of cutting off financing, of exposing groups, of working cooperatively across the globe, of improving our intelligence capabilities nationally and internationally, of training our military and deploying them differently, of specializing in special forces and special ops, of working with allies, and most importantly -- and I mean most importantly -- of restoring America's reputation as a country that listens, is sensitive, brings people to our side, is the seeker of peace, not war, and that uses our high moral ground and high-level values to augment us in the war on terror, not to diminish us.''


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/magazine/10KERRY.html?pagewanted=all
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 4, 2011 - 12:25am PT
From a Military-Industrial-Spy-Complex the War on Terror has been an incredible success.

War profiteering up the yazoooooo. Record profits.

Movie:
Why We Fight
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9219858826421983682#



And in the words of Major General Smedley Butler:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler


"War is a Racket."




http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 4, 2011 - 12:26am PT
Was there a real person named "Smedley" Butler? From the 1930s, yet?

Otherwise, once bin Laden was located, Obama had little choice but to do what he did. Negotiating with the Pakistanis would have been a fool's errand. No way to get at him but from the air, with highly trained military. They gathered all the intelligence they could, and planned accordingly. There was probably never much chance of taking him alive.

As the Allies successfully tried the Nazi leaders after the war, and the Israelis prosecuted Adolf Eichmann in 1961, a public trial would not have been a big problem. The biggest difference would have been that an international court would have jailed bin Laden for life, and a US court would execute him.

(The Israeli judge who presided over the Eichmann trial died yesterday - he was 99.)
jstan

climber
May 4, 2011 - 12:30am PT
Click on Klimmer's link. Get a bunch of links searching just on the name.
shut up and pull

climber
May 4, 2011 - 12:38am PT
JUST IMAGINE IF WE HAD LISTENED TO THE IDIOT LIBERALS BACK THEN?

HEADLINE TODAY:
Harsh interrogation led to bin Laden...
OFFICIALS: Finding bin Laden aided by info from Gitmo detainees...
shut up and pull

climber
May 4, 2011 - 12:40am PT
OF COURSE. A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER COMMIE SCUMBAG WOULDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO.

Obama took 16 hours to make up mind about Bin Laden mission...
'Slept on it'...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2011 - 12:42am PT
I will say we probably do need to get democratic presidents better helicopter maintenance and flight training prior to clandestine raids.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 4, 2011 - 12:46am PT
SUAP wrote: HEADLINE TODAY:
Harsh interrogation led to bin Laden...
OFFICIALS: Finding bin Laden aided by info from Gitmo detainees...



What a as#@&%e...


SUAP wrote: Obama took 16 hours to make up mind about Bin Laden mission...
'Slept on it'...

Took Bush eight years and still no results.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
May 4, 2011 - 01:13am PT
It’s almost painful to have to listen to the cheap carnival calls from the right as they try to discredit Obama for what has emerged as the most successful counterterrorism operation in U.S. history. No surprise.
BrianH

Trad climber
santa fe
May 4, 2011 - 01:15am PT
Brilliant and eloquent Karl, but in the echo chamber you're wasting your time.

Hatas gonna hate!
jstan

climber
May 4, 2011 - 01:21am PT
"Obama took 16 hours to make up mind about Bin Laden mission...
'Slept on it'..."

The implication being that SUAP would have just pulled the trigger, like W did.

Read some of the LA Times articles to which I posted links. Obama was given three scenarios including a bombing and a special ops. He chose the higher risk option so bin Laden might be physically recovered and doubts would have a chance to be extinguished. An overarching concern that had to be weighed was how the alliance with Pakistan might be affected.

I think if you also go to the link I posted on Obama's mother's biography you can see the personal characteristics he has that allowed him to predict and also allow for the conservative reactions he could expect for both cases. Success and also failure.

Taking executive action without thinking these things out beforehand will sooner or later, make you appear a fool. Surely you can see that? Just look to past events. Examples are there.

Once a person has done or said something foolish, recovery is next to impossible.

No one will take you seriously.

You slowly but surely become invisible.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 4, 2011 - 01:22am PT
Anders wrote

There was probably never much chance of taking him alive.

Why? Our government reported that NO ONE offered armed resistance during the operation?

They say they shot Bin Laden when he made an unarmed threatening move, but heck, they're Navy Seals in Body Armor and automatic weapons and he's an old sick guy. Sure, it's not a slam dunk and a very dangerous operation but there was certainly a chance to get him alive.

This article details why the US wasn't able to marshal forces to capture Bin Laden at Tora Bora and also outlines the details of the repeated Taliban offers to hand over Bin Laden for trial to a moderate Islamic country or federation of moderate islamic countries.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/05/03-6

"...The last Taliban foreign minister, Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil, offered at a secret meeting in Islamabad Oct. 15, 2001 to put bin Laden in the custody of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), to be tried for the 9/11 terror attacks on the United States, Muttawakil told IPS in an interview in Kabul last year.

The OIC is a moderate, Saudi-based organisation representing all Islamic countries. A trial of bin Laden by judges from OIC member countries might have dealt a more serious blow to al Qaeda's Islamic credentials than anything the United States would have done with bin Laden.

Muttawakil also dropped a condition that the United States provide evidence of bin Laden's guilt in the 9/11 attacks, which had been raised in late September and reiterated by Taliban Ambassador to Pakistan Abdul Salam Zaeef on Oct. 5 - two days before the U.S. bombing of Taliban targets began.....

....The absence of any military planning to catch bin Laden was a function of Bush's national security team, led by Vice-President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld, which had firmly opposed any military operation in Afghanistan that would have had any possibility of catching bin Laden and his lieutenants.

Rumsfeld and the second-ranking official at the Pentagon, Paul Wolfowitz, had dismissed CIA warnings of an al Qaeda terrorist attack against the United States in the summer of 2001, and even after 9/11 had continued to question the CIA's conclusion that bin Laden and al Qaeda were behind the attacks.

Cheney and Rumsfeld were determined not to allow a focus on bin Laden to interfere with their plan for a U.S. invasion of Iraq to overthrow the Saddam Hussein regime.

Even after Bush decided in favour of an Afghan campaign, CENTCOM commander Tommy Franks, who was responsible for the war in Afghanistan, was not directed to have a plan for bin Laden’s capture or to block his escape to Pakistan.

When the CIA received intelligence on Nov. 12, 2001 that bin Laden had left Kandahar and was headed for a cave complex in the Tora Bora Mountains close to the Pakistani border, Franks had no assets in place to do anything about it. He asked Lt. Gen. Paul T. Mikolashek, commander of Army Central Command (ARCENT), if he could provide a blocking force between al Qaeda and the Pakistani border, according to Col. David W. Lamm, who was then commander of ARCENT Kuwait.

But that was impossible, because ARCENT had neither the troops nor the strategic lift in Kuwait required to put such a force in place.

Franks then had to ask for Pakistani military help in blocking bin Laden's exit into Pakistan, as Rumsfeld told a National Security Council meeting, according to the meeting transcript in Bob Woodward's book "Bush at War".

But Rumsfeld and other key advisers knew it would a charade, because bin Laden was a long-time ally of the Pakistani intelligence service, the ISI, and the Pakistani military was not about to help capture him...."

and the conservative want to be sure Bush gets proper credit for getting Bin Laden? No way

Peace

Karl
jstan

climber
May 4, 2011 - 01:27am PT
Karl:
I get the impression the safest place for bin Laden was Dallas?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 4, 2011 - 01:28am PT
Karl, bin Laden may have been sick - the jury's still out on that one - but he was only 53. Not old.

It will be interesting to learn more about what happened, and the timeline. They probably had very little time to move in, capture or kill bin Laden, and get out. Which meant that if a demand to surrender wasn't complied with immediately, it was game over. It's not Marquess of Queensbury rules.
cleo

Social climber
Berkeley, CA
May 4, 2011 - 01:32am PT
Karl,

Nice, thoughtful post 2 pages back. That echos my feeling pretty well, although I don't necessarily agree on other details with you.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2011 - 01:36am PT
I get the impression the safest place for bin Laden was Dallas?

Had he simply shaved, donned a thong, and added a little suntan lotion and bling he could have lived to ripe old age on the Spanish Riviera with no one the wiser.
p-owed

Trad climber
Ramona ca
May 4, 2011 - 01:38am PT
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 4, 2011 - 01:39am PT
There's no way we can agree much on details, even with those we generally agree with.

There's so many lies and obfuscation in modern politics, that we don't know WTF really happens for real. By the time the truth comes out, everyone has moved on and the culprits are back to making million dollar bonuses or on the board of fat corporations.

We virtually wrecked the economy by DOUBLING defense spending since 9-11. Part of that was the illegal Iraq war which research increasingly shows was based on known lies. Nobody went to jail, There was no investigation.

Then the financial institutions virtually wrecked the economy worse with the housing, CDO security scam, which research now shows was much less accidental than claimed, and the government bailed those guys out, lowered their taxes, and now they are getting rich again as the economy continues to suck. Nobody went to jail,

And then the GOP wants to blame Medicare for the bad economy and take it out on seniors and the poor while retained what was advertised as temporary tax cuts.

but hey, we got Osama, so why rain on the parade? The outside bogyman is valuable to destract for the Osodomizing we get from our masters within the country.

Who's the next bogyman? Gaddafi?

Peace

karl

article regarding untrue initial statments about the operation. You wonder how they could put out the wrong info when they watched the operation on helmet cam and had time to have OB Laden's DNA tested.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/03/bin.laden.evolving.story/index.html?hpt=C2
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 4, 2011 - 01:43am PT
Karl, a lot of what you (and others) are saying may be right, and certainly bears considering. The US got into a big mess from 2001 - 2009, and indeed from 1981 - 2009, and killing bin Laden doesn't necessarily help much to resolve it. But it was necessary, and maybe now - unlike in 2001 - there can be space for reflection and thought.

The administration seems to be addressing this professionally, without vainglory or false claims so far. That's promising.

As for the photo - well, is it real or is it photoshopped? And where did it come from? (Edit: The photo that has now disappeared.)
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
May 4, 2011 - 01:45am PT
Spot on Karl.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
May 4, 2011 - 02:03am PT
Why? Our government reported that NO ONE offered armed resistance during the operation?

Hey Karl, I'm not certain where you heard this, but the US press secretary said today that the seals were engaged in a firefight throughout the house.
apogee

climber
May 4, 2011 - 02:04am PT
"...is it real or is it photoshopped? And where did it come from? "


Oh, cripes....here we go.

Who the feck cares about the images of OBL, besides maybe the bloodthirsty 'Christian' chickenhawks?

He's dead. Most everyone's happy about that. Time to move onto the high road.
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
May 4, 2011 - 02:20am PT
He was killed by modern day killers. They could care less about the politics. They were born to kill; if it wasn't OBL it would have been someone else. That killer gene was almost culled out of the gene pool during WW2. Both sides lost true gladiators in Europe during that period. All of those great warriors never had the chance to breed. F*#k the cause just war on. Let the puppets who think they run the show know that it will be their day soon enough.


Homer

Mountain climber
742 Evergreen Terrace
May 4, 2011 - 02:40am PT
From the Huffington Post:

The helicopter-borne raiding squad that swarmed the luxury compound identified bin Laden by appearance. A woman in the compound who was identified as his wife was said to have called out bin Laden's name in the melee.

Officials produced a quick DNA match from his remains that they said established bin Laden's identity, even absent the other techniques, with 99.9 percent certainty.

Maybe this belongs in the science/god thread …

99.9% probability means that one out of a thousand times, you’ll have a false positive – you’ll get a positive result from the test for a non-Osama bin Laden.

The only way we can use the DNA evidence, and the 99.9% probability that it gives us, is in conjunction with a prior probability. What’s the prior probability that this was Osama bin Laden, as the official and Huffington Post say, “in the absence of the other techniques”?

Well, for the DNA to match, he must have been a human. If you tested all of the 7 billion humans on the earth, you would expect to get 7 million false positives (1 out of every 1000 non-Osama bin Laden humans) and one true positive (Osama bin Laden). So, given the result of the DNA test, “in the absence of the other techniques”, our new expectation, after the test, would be that there was a 1 in 7 million chance that this was Osama bin Laden. Not very convincing odds?

What’s the prior probability that it was Osama bin Laden, before they did the DNA test? We just make it up, using whatever incomplete information we have - incomplete information like what’s the probability that the government’s information was good (like their information on Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction), and what’s the probability that the government is telling the truth. Then we convince ourselves that we know what we’re talking about because we can’t see all of the hidden information that might show us that we don’t know what we’re talking about.

But hey, I’m a human, I believe it was bin Laden, I believe whatever my personally incomplete information (including media and government misrepresenting real information, personal biases, misinformation, faulty reasoning, etc.) tells me to believe.

Sometimes I think that we’re such survivor bias illogic geniuses, it’s surprising that we can fight our way out of a paper bag. But in our defense, I guess it’s the only game in town.
jstan

climber
May 4, 2011 - 02:52am PT
There is probably no point in publishing a picture of Bin Laden. There would be if the right wing would accept something. But it is clear nothing is going to be accepted. So forget it.

Publishing the picture is rather like parading a corpse. Does not say much for us. It would be a negative.

Without a doubt we are going to supply allied governments with information. If there is a leak from one of those governments, so be it. The US can't stop that.

As has been speculated in the media special ops may be a mode of operation we will be using to replace invasions of countries. The best approach would be to do it in alliance with other countries. Particularly if protocols to resolve security problems can be found.

I also would not be surprised by high priority being given a new project to develop special helicopters for this purpose. Carter's choppers died because dust was drawn into the engines. The crews did not get out and put dust screens over the intakes while the choppers were waiting fo