david lama and cerro torre again..


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Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Jan 21, 2011 - 10:46pm PT
I left some nice vitriol on their feedback page. I hate Redbull to say the least.

Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Jan 21, 2011 - 10:48pm PT
Who can write a good article to one of the climbing mags? Someone here must have their ear, and ability to bad mouth redbull eloquently and persuasively.


Trad climber
Jan 21, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
It's time we repaid our debts and searched again for the limits of possibility - for we must have such limits if we are going to use the virtue of courage to approach them. And we must reach them. Where else will we be able to find refuge in our flight from the oppression of everyday humdrum routine? In the Himalaya? In the Andes? Yes certainly if we can get there; but for most of us there'll only be these old Alps.


Boulder climber
Jan 21, 2011 - 11:03pm PT
Climbing community? You mean all those folks bouldering around Bishop?

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Jan 21, 2011 - 11:16pm PT
Is he freeing it with Jardine? They can just chip some traverses and it will be all good! Wait, if red bull gives you wings, why does he need bolts???

Gym climber
Jan 21, 2011 - 11:26pm PT

Mighty Hiker

Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 21, 2011 - 11:44pm PT
Perhaps it is just an ugly, misbegotten publicity stunt, on the basis that any publicity is good publicity. Lama and Red Bull(shit) announce their plans, get a firestorm of negative publicity from the average genteel SuperTopian right up to Reinhold (The Murder of the Impossible) Messner, and including pretty much a who's who in the climbing community. (Apart from some commercial climbers, that is - the ones who long ago sold their souls.) And then they gracefully back down, to "prove" how legitimate and responsible they are, and willing to hear public opinion.

The symbolism is telling, though - corrupt commercial forces collide head on with climbing community values on one of the world's most famous peaks, one that has long been a scene of drama. Not forgetting that many of the public couldn't care less, and in many places, these sorts of antics are unexceptionable.

I hope that Jason and friends get up the thing without the bolts and/or all free in the near future. It would utterly discredit what Lama says he's doing.

And given prevailing conditions there, you have to wonder how 'free' any ascent can ever be. Very unstable weather, high winds, lots of ice and snow around, especially high up. Won't any climb of Cerro Torre involve at least some "French" free, and some "mixed" climbing near the top? The latter is debatably free, the former hardly.

I've never bought Red BS products, and now never will. Nor would I associate with the company or its athletes or products. Not that they care, or that your typical SuperTopian is part of its target markets.

This thread should be good for at least 2,000 posts. And if it's a troll by the Krukster, he better start running now.
Mighty Hiker

Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 22, 2011 - 12:07am PT
Sorry, Jim - my indignation and so sarcasm knows no bounds when it comes to this subject. And I was definitely being sarcastic.

I wonder if the government of Argentina, the state government, or the park manager can or would intervene?

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Jan 22, 2011 - 12:13am PT
yeah, I just posted on Jason's site to see whether he can provide a source for the allegation of an intent to rap bolt a free line in what I perceive to be a ground up area.

If it's already been posted publicly by David, can someone post that up?
Mighty Hiker

Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 22, 2011 - 12:19am PT
Lama (February 2010): I’m sure I’ll return. My goal to freeclimb the Compressor route on Cerro Torre, and the little village El Chalten and its surroundings simply fascinate me.

His rebuttal to criticism earlier this year: http://www.david-lama.com/en/news.html?no_cache=1&tx_lamanews_pi2%5Bnewsuid%5D=195&tx_lamanews_pi1%5Bnewsuid%5D=195&tx_lamanews_pi1%5Bnewspage%5D=0

There doesn't seem anything current about his plans or activities on his website - www.david-lama.com

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 22, 2011 - 12:28am PT
Wow. Really? And people say routes like Ignorant Bliss and other pseudo-alpine sport abortions have no impact on people's attitudes and thinking. Seems only fitting he leave his drill and batteries hanging on the route since he's decided to don Cesare's mantle. Hard to imagine a more dick thing to do.

Sometimes folks just need to see rap bolting close up and personal:

1740 Stewart Street, Suite 320, Santa Monica, CA 90404

P.S. Note, one could also argue this is natural consequence of not chopping the existing line...
Mighty Hiker

Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 22, 2011 - 01:31am PT
An article from the Red Bull(shit) website from before Lama's attempt during the 2009 - 10 season. It includes 133 comments, including two recent ones.

Nothing else, not even in the "Holy Shit" section.

Trad climber
Jan 22, 2011 - 01:48am PT
chicken sh*t bump.

Keep those comments rolling in to Red Bull folks. Write Lama too, he needs to hear from all of us on this.

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 22, 2011 - 03:45am PT
What a limp dick David Lameass is. He syas he can handle the sh#t storm. Well he doesnt know what a real sh#t storm is. But he is going to find out. What a selfish arrogant prig. I would love to be there when Rolo rips him a new one.

Jan 22, 2011 - 04:08am PT
Probably a well organized boycott is in order. How about someone producing some t-shirts that say

"Rap bolts on Cerro Torre are Red Bullshit!"

or something to that effect.

I would buy 20 or so to give away at my climbing gym.

Jan 22, 2011 - 04:20am PT
You can send comments to Red Bull at

I just sent the following to their Spanish agency:

El escalador David Lama esta en Argentina con la intención de escalar Cerro Torre utilizando métodos no acceptados por la gran parte de escaladors. Si hace esto, y si Red Bull ha contribuido suport a Lama, yo colaboraré con esfuerzos de hace un boicot a los productos de Red Bull, en España y internacionalmente.
Michael Creel

The climber David Lama is in Argentina with the intention of climbing Cerro Torre using methods not accepted by the great majority of climbers. If he does this, and if Red Bull has contributed support to Lama, I will collaborate with efforts to boycott the products of Red Bull, in Spain and internationally.
Michael Creel

Lama's Red Bull page is

and you can comment there, too. My contribution was:

This wont make any contribution to the history of climbing, but it will make a contribution to the history of vain, stupid projects. Probably a 19 year old can be cut some slack for not understanding the difference. His corporate sponsors deserve no slack.
Johnny K.

Mountain climber
Jan 22, 2011 - 04:27am PT
Bridwell once said Maestri was a pussy.Perhaps Lama just wants to follow in those steps to become a grand pussy.

Lama is succeeding for the worst style and ethics in climbing history.Following his mentor Maestri.


Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 22, 2011 - 04:36am PT
Just hit up twitter with:

#redbull #climbing #climber #rockclimbing - David Lama rapbolting Cerro Torre in 2nd round of vertical vandalism - http://win.gs/gU0qvs

And sent messages to everyone Redbull related on linkedin.

The words crusade and jihad come to mind...

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Jan 22, 2011 - 10:23am PT
I certainly agree with Robbins quote. Sport climbing will continue to cut into traditional climbing territory and practices. Think of all the so-called trad climbs that have every belay anchor bolted, for example, and just imagine the outcry if those bolts were chopped whenever it was possible to use a gear anchor. Oh the horror!

Here is part of the problem. Exactly how big does a crag have to be before rap bolting is not ok? And on the other end, how small? (There was a suitably outraged dust-up on Mountain Project recently about some rap-bolted highball boulder problems next to the trail in RMNP, for example.) Once it is ok on a 100 foot crag, why not a 200 foot crag, a 400 foot crag, a 800 foot crag, a 1600 foot crag, a 3200 foot crag?

It should be clear, at least in retrospect, that the Maestri route should have been chopped as soon as possible. The Lama fiasco really began when people started repeating the Compressor route, even if they thought they were using better "style." Just recognizing it as a route started us down the path that has lead to this moment.

By all means fight the good fight for Cerro Torre. But the real issue is back home, and has to do with what we do on small crags, because the attitudes towards climbing and the populations that become engaged all radiate out from our little rocks.

The Brits have managed to preserve their small climbing environments, and Eastern Europe has too, but the rest of the world, including the U.S., really seems to be headed in a different direction altogether.


Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Jan 22, 2011 - 10:31am PT
Sounds like the back side of Half Dome.....

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