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troutboy
Trad climber
Newark, DE
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:23pm PT
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So let me get this straight...Chubby chick gets bitten by dog owned by guy who dumped her.
There's really only one burning question. How long did it take him to train the dog to nip the bitch?
Damn, if you look at that bite pic and think Blackbird is "chubby", you probably think Karen Carpenter belonged on World's Biggest Loser!
TS
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Rudder
Trad climber
Long Beach, CA
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:28pm PT
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I've always felt the little dogs should be better supervised than the big dogs. A lot of those little dogs seem to have short man complex.
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troutboy
Trad climber
Newark, DE
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:33pm PT
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Tennessee has some crazy-ass dog bite statutes (e.g., the owner is not liable for a bite that occurs on his property or other non-commercial property where he and the dog had the owner's permission - so, presumably, if a mailman gets bitten, he's screwed, unless):
A dog owner may be held civilly liable for the damages caused by his dog under the "scienter" cause of action, also known as "common law strict liability" and the "one bite rule." In Fletcher v. Richardson, 603 S.W.2d 734, 735 (Tenn. 1980), the court stated:
"The owner or keeper of the dog is not answerable for injuries done by it when in a place it had a right to be, unless the dog was in fact vicious or otherwise dangerous, the owner or keeper knew, or under the circumstances should have known (sic), of the dangerous disposition of the animal, and the injuries resulted from the known vicious or dangerous propensity of the animal. The basic key to recovery of damages for injuries caused by a dog is the knowledge of the owner or keeper that the animal is vicious or has mischievous propensities."
Plaintiffs suing for injuries or death caused by a dog bite must prove three elements. “First, they must prove that the defendant owned the dog. Second, they must prove that the defendant’s dog caused the injuries. Third, they must prove that the defendants knew or should have known about the dog’s dangerous propensities.” Eden v. Johnson, No. 01A01-9603-CV-00141, 1996 WL 474428, at *2 (Tenn. Ct. App., Aug. 21, 1996) (citing Thompson v. Thompson, 749 S.W.2d 468, 470 (Tenn. Ct. App. 1988)); See Fletcher v. Richardson, 603 S.W.2d 734, 735 (Tenn. 1980) (“the basic key to recovery of damages for injuries caused by a dog is the knowledge of the owner or keeper that the animal is vicious or has mischievous propensities”).
Of course, BB said she was not going to sue, but because the owner apparently acknowledged the dog had bitten before, all three criteria would be easily met.
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troutboy
Trad climber
Newark, DE
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:35pm PT
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What, no mustard ?
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neversummer
Mountain climber
perris, cali
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Jan 19, 2011 - 06:00pm PT
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my buddy brought his 5yr old nephew to the crag and wouldnt ya know ....he fackin' bit me, buddy said hes losing his baby teeth......
...so i clubbed him
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 19, 2011 - 06:35pm PT
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xtreme Pizza 1630 Cypress st Walnut Creek ca 94596
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 20, 2011 - 01:01am PT
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A bit of solidarity with Blackbird, and most all the
people who have taken the time to post on this thread.
The overwhelming majority of posts here express the thoughts:
1. Leave your dog at home, when you go climbing at an area where you may encounter other people.
2. If you are unable to leave your dog at home, keep it (them) on lease and under control.
Do any of you have a problem with that?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 20, 2011 - 01:30am PT
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Yeah - and then there are the climbers who do those things....
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 20, 2011 - 01:37am PT
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I dunno - I tend to view hogging flat spots as a pretty serious thing.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 20, 2011 - 01:44am PT
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It's purely to reduce occurrence of El Cap neck. Really. Plus you get a better view of the climber, and are more stably positioned in the event of potential energy converting into kinetic.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 20, 2011 - 01:51am PT
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Good point - but I don't have a small child to help with such things. And the cat sleeps more than me.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 20, 2011 - 03:55am PT
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I dunno - I tend to view hogging flat spots as a pretty serious thing.
quote of the day
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tenesmus
Trad climber
slc
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Jan 20, 2011 - 08:20am PT
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Leave your f*#king dog(s) at home.
+1000,000,000
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altelis
Mountain climber
DC
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Jan 20, 2011 - 10:23am PT
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My take is that if you don't want to climb with dogs around than you, as a person with free-will, need to choose to climb at a crag that doesn't allow dogs, or at the very least requires dogs to be on leash.
This is, as far as I can tell, the majority of crags out there. I, as an owner of a well behaved dog, try hard to climb at crags where the land manager permits dogs of leash. If the crag I'm going to requires the dog to be on leash? I leave her at home.
Caveat: of course any dog off leash needs to be well trained, have NO history of aggressive behavior toward people or other dogs, does NOT go through people's stuff, jump on them, etc.
But if you make the decision to climb somewhere where dogs are legally allowed off leash, you have decided you are going to deal with that. If you are climbing somewhere where dogs aren't allowed off leash, well then, you have every right to complain and be pissed. And anyone who would take their dog climbing in an area dogs aren't off leash in needs to reconsider their motivation for taking their dog with them...(of course, rare exceptions apply)
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doughnutnational
Gym climber
its nice here in the spring
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Jan 20, 2011 - 10:33am PT
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To the last poster, even where dogs are allowed off leash they are required to be under voice control. Many of the dogs (if not most)of the dogs I see are not under voice control and I did not choose to deal with that just by going there.
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altelis
Mountain climber
DC
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Jan 20, 2011 - 10:48am PT
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I fully agree with you.
The spirit of my post was: I make the extra effort to climb places where I can take my dog and let her off leash. When I do that I follow the rules, which almost always includes dog under voice control. This means either me, my wife, or a partner who my dog has a history of obeying will be in a position to control her. We never bring her multipitching, ever.
IF you don't want to be around dogs, don't go to a crag that allows them off leash. If you don't mind dogs, but don't want them in your mug, that's fine. Don't whine about dogs around at a crag where they are allowed. Of course, if that dog isn't well controlled, well behaved, shitting on the trail, by all means, whine. And not here. Tell the dog owner. Some owner's just don't get it. I try (in as much of a non-holier-than-though way, though I clearly am, hehe) to be proactive about dog owners whose dogs aren't in control. Ruins it for the rest of us.
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ME Climb
Trad climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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Jan 20, 2011 - 12:02pm PT
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I have 2000+ hours working with dogs, and have taken 10,000+ bites from dogs (all of them in bite suits or with sleeves). Some of the things I have learned in all of that time is that even a working dog which is constantly receiving traing cannot be controlled all of the time. Dogs have the mentality of a two year old. They will try to "cheat" and sneak anything they can. I am always on guard and don't trust them, especially one I am not familiar with. Sometimes familiarity with the dog will make me trust them less. I understand why dogs do what they do and understand what is needed to change behavior.
I have two Cavaliers which are true companion dogs (bred to sit with the ladies in England) that have extremely high prey drives (meaning they like to hunt and chase things). The enjoy being outside and think that everyone they see should be their new best friend. I have taken them hiking with me when I can watch them and monitor their behavior. I have never taken them when I climb. I am either focused on climbing or belaying, leaving me no time to monitor the dogs. To be courteous to others I never take my dogs anywhere I cannot keep an eye on them and monitor them continually.
To me being a responsible dog owner is understanding that not everyone is a dog person and many people either truly dislike dogs or are afraid of them.
My thoughts on dogs at a crag are that if you are going to bring one make sure it is leashed and controlled. Make sure that it is not where it could bother other people. You should respect the others around you and not force your beliefs/ opinions upon the others around you. As you may have the right to have your dog with you, others have the right to have a dog free environment.
I guess boils down to treat others like you want to be treated.
Eric
Edited for typo
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Rudder
Trad climber
Long Beach, CA
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Jan 20, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
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Me?, a dog lover who has raised dogs from Mastiffs to Dachshunds.
People who think their dog(s) are humans?, definitely beyond annoying.
People who have a dog that has even nipped at someone, and still haven't either fixed the problem or gave the dog away to somebody who could, impossible for me to understand.
I just can't begin to relate to the position that it's okay under any circumstances to let my dog remain believing that biting or nipping is acceptable behavior. I would feel so horrible if any of my dogs ever nipped at anyone, under any circumstances. Could they have, as some have suggested is possible for all dogs, I don't believe they could. I raise a dog it is a delta, lover dog. It's not thinking to protect anybody or anything, it =knows= that's my job. It's not thinking to make a judgement call, it =knows= that is also my job.
And, if I don't have what it takes to get a particular dog to be a delta lover dog with no possibility of nipping at anyone under any circumstance then that dog is beyond my training abilities and it would not be responsible for me to keep him.
I feel sorry for the dogs of people who want an attack, protect, or security dog. The dog's life is much more unhappy, stressful, and without priveledges in my eyes. But, if that's what you (third person plural) want, keep it at home in a very secure yard. Whatever you do, don't bring it around me... I'll turn it into a happy lover dog and you'll have to start all over with another dog to get your biter dog back. ;)
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neversummer
Mountain climber
perris, cali
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Jan 20, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
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it has alot to do with the breed too......
some are naturaly prone to chase smaller animals etc.... i.e hunting dogs
some are natural protectors i.e rotwieller..and so on and so on....
people should research the breed they want to bring into there family and way of life, instead of picking it based on looks
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jan 20, 2011 - 04:29pm PT
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But see, senor Fattrad, I would be horrified and really scared to get a big wet kiss by a dog. Some people don't want to be touched, slobbered on, or kissed by a dog. And no one wants to be nipped at or bit.
As it was noted above, "To me being a responsible dog owner is understanding that not everyone is a dog person and many people either truly dislike dogs or are afraid of them."
I wish some folks would recognize that.
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