Depresion - Not Something one can beat with will power alone

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Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Apr 2, 2010 - 03:32pm PT
My hat is off to John for the above post. You're the man. Way to live.

A5 aid climbers, I can't see doing that if you aren't depressed, but I guess some like it anyway.

Depressed or not, we're all struggling for meaning and satisfaction in life. We have to give heartfelt contemplation on where fulfillment comes from to find the path to wholeness.

Sometimes the depressed people have a leg up on that, because they know they aren't happy, others are just sleeping

Peace

Karl
Jengi

Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
Apr 2, 2010 - 03:41pm PT
I am touched by all the caring encouragement posted to this topic... a great bunch of folks!

Juan, if you are in a place where you need to do something now, call your doctor - or the suicide prevention hotline - now.

Tell them you think you are depressed, that you are having dark thoughts, and that you need help. They will evaluate your situation and provide referrals and/or drugs.

USA National Suicide Hotlines
Toll-Free / 24 hours / 7 days a week

1-800-SUICIDE
1-800-784-2433

1-800-273-TALK
1-800-273-8255
TTY: 1-800-799-4TTY (4889)

http://suicidehotlines.com/california.html

Come back to this forum when you need encouragement. Contact those that have offered and if possible speak to them.

One step at a time, Buddy!
WBraun

climber
Apr 2, 2010 - 03:45pm PT
Huh?

You don't think for a moment that JuanDeFuca doesn't know all this sh'it!

He's a real smart guy who knows the art of trolling ......
Jingy

Social climber
Nowhere
Apr 2, 2010 - 03:49pm PT
Alex has a good point...
"2. your mind still holds images / sounds / scents of times when u werent so depressed

3 - a believable achievable forward vision to get u to one of these not depressed places in your future picture of things is possible


This is the exact method I use when I get struck by the fog of depression..

I have a memory of a time when I was not in the fog.. that thought is usually enough to keep me going...

Just know that you will make it through.. in your own due time... it may be difficult, and a huge struggle.. but it's possible to make it through without thoughst of JC (which ultimately is your own inner voice assuming the possition of JC) or with presciption drugs (which is a nice way of putting off until tomorrow when can be cured today....) I don't think that paying a big drug company for your personal "happy thoughts" is the way to go, but that's just me. Like Alex says...its an expense that I cannot afford.


SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Apr 2, 2010 - 04:01pm PT

JDF
I'm truly sorry to hear the experiences you've been having.
It's not fun. I know. Like John above, I experienced a couple of
bad periods in my life. Almost to suicide the first time, but fortunately
got help--both psychological and medical. Twenty years later my
mother died, and my fiance dumped me almost simultaneously.
I didn't want to die, but I wished I were dead. But I was already
in counseling and had a good doctor. I was ready to check myself
into the hospital for it, but managed to get enough help and not
have to. I really feared that. But the meds are a strange thing.
I've been on quite a few of them, and it takes time to find the
correct one and the right dosage of it also. Sometimes the side-effects
really suck too.
But I urge you to get professional help--those guys know what they
are doing, but if you aren't happy with a doctor, get another one.
With counseling and finding the right medication you can get the
spring back into your step and the joy of life.

I hope you'll get the help and work things out.
My very best wishes to you.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 2, 2010 - 04:16pm PT
Whether or not Juan/Jeff/LA is trolling, this seems to have been a useful discussion for many. I don't have any personal or family experience with this affliction, but think it's quite likely that some relative or friend has had depression, even if transient and not apparent to others. Noting that Canadians tend to be more reticent about discussing such personal matters with family and friends, let alone others.

One lesson seems to be that these sorts of things may be more prevalent than might be thought, aren't all that well understood, and that there's nothing "wrong" with having depression, or seeking treatment. Another seems to be that there are a variety of treatments that may help, but many are external. Some may be able to pull themselves up by their soulstraps, but not many. And that the treatments may include time, exercise, volunteering, community and commitments to others (family, friends, climbing community...), informal or formal therapy (friends/family/colleagues, minister, psychologist...), religion, philosophy, and drugs.

And the real lesson is that there's nothing wrong with seeking help, or at least finding out if there's reason for you to seek help.

If there objectively is an increasing prevalence of such afflictions, then you have to wonder about the values of our society. Shallow materialism doesn't correlate well with happiness, and there's some evidence that once people are reasonably comfortable in the material sense (per capita income about half of the US), they don't get happier with more money.
Flaccid

Gym climber
U.S. of fukkin' A
Apr 2, 2010 - 04:19pm PT
MY GOD ALL YOU GUYS ARE NUCKING FUTZ!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Apr 2, 2010 - 04:25pm PT
something a little off topic, but in reference to the nebulous nature of symptoms....

I know someone who was diagnosed and began treatment for depression and it turned out to be an abdominal cancer. I kid you not. And apparently this is not entirely uncommon as there are some crossover symptoms and if physiological tests come up negative, the MD may start looking elsewhere - hopefully not down the proverbial garden path.

Anyway, strange but true.
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Apr 2, 2010 - 04:49pm PT
Jesus John. What a incredible story. Gutsy revelations. Not to steal from JDF's thread, but your post takes the cake.

Glad to hear it worked out as good as it did, if you can call anything about that tale good.

I will never again give you any sh#t, if I ever did.
LEB

climber
PA
Apr 2, 2010 - 08:11pm PT
That's quite a story, John (EL) and it took a lot of guts to share it. Depression can do very profound things to persons. Then, of course, we all have our moments of temporary insanity - all of us. It is just a shame that you had to pay such a high price for yours. Seems to me that, in your case, the punishment was out of proportion to the crime. A two year suspension without the prison time would seem more appropriate to me. That is sort of what we do in my field for a first offense. I am not sure why they went so overboard with you. Seems out of line to me.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 2, 2010 - 08:21pm PT
Thanks for the kind words. I posted my story to let others know there's hope when there appears to be none, but also to let others who feel like the universe is closing in on them know that they can contact me anytime and will reach someone who understands.

John
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Apr 2, 2010 - 08:37pm PT
WB, this might have started as a fools quest, but a majority of responses here, yours included, are constructive. For me personally, they have helped me take another step forward from darkness to light.

Thanks to all for your powerful perspectives.

What an amazing experiance!
LEB

climber
PA
Apr 2, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
Antidepressant meds may not be the panacea, end-all, be-all but they definitely help and sometimes quite a bit. It is not unlike pain meds for severe pain. They may not completely remove all of the pain but they will make the whole thing more bearable. Much better than with no pain meds at all.

What is important is to understand that depression is not simply "all in someone's head." There can often be genuine chemical imbalances - most frequently serotonin deficits but other neurotransmitters can be involved, as well. It is not simply a matter of pulling one's self up by his or her bootstraps and "flying right." There is more to it from a physiological perspective than that.

We do people a disservice when we imply that they should just "snap out of it" i.e. change their attitude - neither should we be suggesting that they go for 5 years of psychoanalysis. Both of those scenarios are inappropriate approaches and likely to do more harm than good. When was the last time we told someone to "snap out of" his diabetes or thyroid problem. This type of approach is very non-therapeutic to the patient and likely to leave him feeling worse.
alexander-solzhenitsyn

climber
Bend OR
Apr 2, 2010 - 10:17pm PT
I would not want my preschool caliber opinions to discourage anybody from the use of SSRIs selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors ... or other space age miracles of big pharma

since going beyond melatonin, lithium, seems to work wonders in some people that is great
and my banquet cook did seem better while on SSRI ( prozac ) in my one out of two firsthand observations of their effects

with a large bouquet of options to try I hope that one or several of these mentioned will work

on the cheapskate front, i guess that the touristy well intentioned helpers handbooks "emotional wall of support"
aka having a friends and a helpers net up and viable .... will also be a valid comforter in a time of depression / sleeplessness



Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Apr 3, 2010 - 12:01am PT
For once LEB, i agree with most of your post

There is so much emphasis on just "snap out of it", "change this or that"

That advice does not help, and may make things worse
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Apr 3, 2010 - 12:10am PT
I have also read that a new legal herbal medicine for depression is availible in California

The medicine is of course weed, and the medicinal quality "Sativa" variety has quite an effect on depression

Those prescribed this medicine will find that they must administer a dosage every 4-6 hours, and withdrawl could (will) create a episode of depression

I have not tried this medicine, but the people I have talked to, say it doesn't effect their life other than make it more livable, and they can carry on with a stressful job and family life with out the stigma of being stoners

It seems the more you do, the less the bad effects you may experince with the medicine, and the more anti-depressant effects are noticed

locker

Social climber
Desert
Apr 3, 2010 - 12:12am PT


Lois NAILS it!!!...

Hit it right out of the PARK...


Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Apr 3, 2010 - 12:41pm PT
What happened to this thread, are we done here?
Rokjox

Trad climber
Boys I'dunno
Apr 3, 2010 - 12:53pm PT
Yes. It's over. Time to go Skiing.
alexander-solzhenitsyn

climber
Bend OR
Apr 3, 2010 - 03:24pm PT
they say that combined with reggae music, love, community, sunsets, barbecues, surf, and bonfire celebrations up by the parking lot

that it tends to elevate the spirits
you might try just the non smoking parts, see if that works

"music is a safe high" quote lifestyle spokesperson, Jimi Hendrix
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