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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Dec 20, 2009 - 05:35pm PT
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When rappeling with an ATC-type device it's more conducive to use it through a Pear-biner through your waist/leg-loops, in parallel to you loop. It allows the rope to feed better through the ATC and brake hand.
Belaying of the loop you almost want that 'twist' to give better braking friction in a fall or lock-off. It's also easier for belaying.
This is so simple....
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Cpt0bvi0u5
Trad climber
Merced CA
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Dec 20, 2009 - 05:46pm PT
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I always consider belay loops bomber but it never hurts to run your rap device to the loop and something else for redundancy.
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Dec 20, 2009 - 05:49pm PT
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Bluering:
Your statement holds sort of true if you hold the rope with your break hand with your thumb away from the belay/rappel device; if you hold the rope with your thumb towards the device, everything lines up perfect with the locking carabiner attached to the belay loop. Particularly when rappelling, then the rope/device/brake hand are all in a straight line to minimize kinking of the ropes. I used to belay like you do, then I switched. Give it a try, I think it's better...
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perswig
climber
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Dec 20, 2009 - 06:41pm PT
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Wait a minute...
"You do not use the belay loop for your rappel. But you belay your buddies with it. Might want to think that through."
Agree.
"I tie the rope into the belay loop..."
Huh?
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Dec 20, 2009 - 06:55pm PT
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Yer gonna DIEEEEE!!!!!!!!!
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Flanders!
Trad climber
June Lake, CA
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Dec 20, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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Tork, more slander re:me will only get you in trouble, I'm likely to climb with you more
and more until I can keep up with you, ....then dusk you chump. Just wait until the flab is
gone and something resembling muskel returns, then you'll be whimp'in again. old flanders
might be like the Phoenix, rising from the ashes.
Torky, it's time for you and Mony to come ski and ice climb. Don't worry, I'll show which end
of the ice axe to use and where it goes.
And Walleye, I knew it !!!! you poser, next time don't leave the can of wd40 at the base, it gave
you away.
Belayed from above Flanders
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Dec 20, 2009 - 08:18pm PT
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Perswing - exactly what I thought.
And then I thought, 'Why the F am I reading this thread?' No easy answers.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Dec 20, 2009 - 08:19pm PT
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What Werner said, use a biner keep the loop for other things - like my daisy chain.
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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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Dec 20, 2009 - 08:26pm PT
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I always tied a piece of webbing that backed up my belay loop, in spite of the razzing I got for doing it. I wish Todd Skinner had done the same ...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 20, 2009 - 08:43pm PT
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Much better to put a locker on your harness. I would rather be belayed off the gate AND crossloaded, not sure bout you guyz!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 20, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
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Yup, what Werner said way back at the beginning.
Oh... Wait... If I agree with Werner about this does that mean I have to agree with him on those mystical things he talks about that I don't understand?
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Dec 20, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
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My 4 decades of climbing can't compare to WB's.....But once you attach the biner from your harness to your leg loops and the put an additional strain upon it ...you have effectively created a triangle .....the biners were Knott designed to handle this load.
Hook your belay biner through the harness loop and the rope tied to you....It will never fail unless you screwed up the belay station.
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Dec 20, 2009 - 09:09pm PT
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I agree with WB also...the harness is designed to work without worry..it is what happens to it in the field that causes the issues...urine is the most corrosive substance to your harness and ropes...cavers hate bat guano because of that....WB your thoughts? I understand that the accidents where a belay loop has been compromised was caused by excessive amounts of well you guessed it...
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Strongerdog
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 20, 2009 - 09:16pm PT
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Hummerchine has been trying to teach me to belay and rappel right for years. I'm going back to hip belays and rappeling with carabiners as the brake bar.
I wonder how may rescues happen when new climbers drop their belay/rappel device and can't figure out what to do next?
Harness loops are great for keeping the harness together while I tie into the rope through the waist and leg loops.
Steve
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 20, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
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Of those participating in this discussion, was the last route you climbed done first via hip belay? Probably. Except for Bob D. That dude is nails.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Dec 20, 2009 - 09:42pm PT
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As to failure of the loop, Todd was pretty experienced and thought his loop was good. Is there a reason for us to bet the farm we are going to be smarter than Todd?
Since when does merely being a good climber make you smarter than anyone else?
If I remember correctly, both he and his partner mentioned how worn his belay loop was before the accident.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Top of the 5.2-5.12 Boulder
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Dec 20, 2009 - 09:47pm PT
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Well, I wish he'd have backed it up.
Easy thing to do. Mine is.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Dec 20, 2009 - 09:53pm PT
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Of course I wish he had backed it up also, or at least honestly appraised it's condition. I wish he would have been at least that smart.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 20, 2009 - 10:14pm PT
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My use of the word "smart" was not intended to be literal. My bad.
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luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
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Dec 20, 2009 - 10:20pm PT
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my concern is not only with the belay loop...but with what the belay loop or biner is connected to...you can have a locker but the loops the locker is connected to is weak... you cannot always tell what has been weakened...that is the problem
edit...therefore make sure there are no problems or the cause of problems to prevent the later as someone as so eloquently describes
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