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Jy
Trad climber
California
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I would say that DeLays actions are troubling also, except for the fact that they werent. Almost all politicians are corrupt, and usually the more powerful (and the more conservative) are the most corrupt. It was surprising though to actually see something happen about it.
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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I guess now we're getting into Carlin's "7 Dirty Words" spiel.
Or "I know ----- when I see it."
Jody, I take it you're not much of the laissez-faire, pro-business conservative, then...
Curious about FT's thoughts....
Was it George Orwell or perhaps Dick Van Patten who said "If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they don't want to hear"...
...
Interestingly, Federalist Paper No. 8/9 deal with this very topic; the limiting/loss of civil and political liberties in times of war.
“Here we are trying to free another country and I have to get off an airplane … over a T-shirt. That’s not freedom.”
She's right, from our founding father's view....too bad so many (individuals and businesses) have lost that view.
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WBraun
climber
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“Here we are trying to free another country and I have to get off an airplane … over a T-shirt. That’s not freedom.”
Well I don’t like your reply to this thread so I’ll go over to your house and blow your ass away with my big bazooka gun. Then the cops come and take me away, but I’ll scream this is a free country and I can do anything I want.
I’ve been jived, I thought it’s a free country …….as they take me away …….
Edit; maybe we should debate the merits of freedom in another thread?
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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Jody:"Well, we should just allow pornographic pictures on T-shirts in public then. Where do you draw the line? "
I dunno, where do you draw it? Personally, I give people the freedom to do what they want...
It's called "freedom"...
Get it?
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WBraun
climber
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Ok I'm coming over now with my big ass bazooka cannon.
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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Ah, argumentum in terrorem.
S'okay, 10 out of 10 people die, maybe it's my time.
But Jody or someone of the like might have to put the clamps on.
(Ack, now I've done my own argumentum in terrorem)...
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WBraun
climber
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426
"I give people the freedom to do what they want..."
You can't give squat, 426 you're a nobody, just like the rest of us.
We do not have that power.
Only someone who is absolutely free can possess such power.
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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You're right in a manner; let me clarify.
On that plane, I wouldn't be the person to complain about anyone's garment or even a lack thereof. Even if they wore a "Pro-War, Pro-Jesus" shirt that "offended" me.
Who am I to say what is "pornography" for example? Such things are subjective-and with a mostly "libertarian" philosophy, I value political and personal freedoms highly.
To each their own, I guess, would be more apropos. Each of us has our own "†" to bear...
Edit: Mr Braun: "maybe we should debate the merits of freedom in another thread?" I agree.
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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But this begs the question, "which morals"?
Read the Federalist Papes or the Constitution, it's certainly not "Christian" morals.
Define "society crumbling"...
and I think we've been here before(?)
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WBraun
climber
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426
Don't bring in "Christian morals" and don't try to put words in people’s mouths.
There was no mention of "Christian" in Jody’s original post.
He only said moral.
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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Then whose morals?
Read Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, ratified by most of the founding fathers.
Read the Federalist Papers. 588 pages and not one mention of Christianity or God...
here, I'll help you
http://earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html
Do you know why the first (non-native European) people came over here? Hint: it's got a lot to do with religion....
Define "crumbling society" while you're at it....
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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ROFL-Nice use of the "Chewbacca" defense.
Yeah, that's a real logic fallacy...related to a 'red herring'
Meanwhile, good cop (I guess on this thread), you haven't really defended your statement.
Whose morals? Yours?
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WBraun
climber
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When God consciousness is lost so then are morals. It’s impossible to leave out God. It can’t be done, and if you try then society will crumble sooner or later .
And I guarantee it to the hilt.
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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Not what Jefferson thought:
"It does me no harm whether a man believes in 20 gods or none at all, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Not what Paine thought:
"My own mind is my own church."
Sorry, I gotta defer to the founding fathers on this one, the "new federalist" I am.
I'm not even sayin' that you should; just sayin I should...
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WBraun
climber
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You're welcome :-)
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426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
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Nice red herrings; they are just being tossed out all over...
You could start with the irony of your sanctity of life statement; that means bombing a city of 3 million people (Baghdad), eh?
Or how about bombing abortion clinics to defend "sanctity of life"...
Please, parse those out...
I'm a little afraid of 'your' morals...you seem a little repressive to a lover of "freedom" like myself...
Why do you hate our founding fathers so much?
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WBraun
climber
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426
Who’s bombing 3 million people (Baghdad)? Not Jody either, but people of all different consciousness are involved including Jeffersonian new federalists.
Where is Jody bombing abortion centers? Only a psycho does that in the name of religion.
Me, 426, I’m a little afraid of your blanket statements that try to lead some one to some place where YOU want to put them.
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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Nearly every of us human beings has a sense of morality. Jody claims to be sole possessor of Morality™.
Jody is generally amiable. Upon donning his Morality Man™ cape, however, he is consistently condescending and author of the three most vile ideas ever posted on ST.
As I stroll through Morality Mart™, I see your name brand Morality™, and it's expensive and no more effective than the generic brand. I boycott Morality™. Keep up the sales job, whiteboy, but I'm full. I'm full up to here with morality and it's delicious.
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WBraun
climber
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I'm sorry to say you are wrong yo. Jody is not making any claims to be sole possessor of Morality™. He is merely giving a transparent description coming from the lord himself the Supreme Being, God.
Look up the two in the dictionary my friend (God and Supreme Being)
Even in Microsoft word "spell" it wants you to capitalize “being” when in relation to Supreme.
In this age, the institution of marriage will degenerate. Indeed, already a marriage certificate is sometimes cynically rejected as "a mere piece of paper." Forgetting the spiritual purpose of marriage and misunderstanding sex to be the goal of family life, lusty men and women directly engage in sexual affairs without the troublesome formalities and responsibilities of a legal relationship. Such foolish people argue that "sex is natural." But if sex is natural, pregnancy and childbirth are equally natural. And for the child it is certainly natural to be raised by a loving father and mother and in fact to have the same father and mother throughout his life. Psychological studies confirm that a child needs to be cared for by both his father and his mother, and thus it is obviously natural for sex to be accompanied by a permanent marriage arrangement. Hypocritical people justify unrestricted sex by saying "it is natural" but to avoid the natural consequence of sex—pregnancy—they use contraceptives, which certainly do not grow on trees. Indeed, contraceptives are not at all natural. Thus hypocrisy and foolishness abound in the age of Kali.
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